Double posted for some reason. Sorry about that.

Originally posted by therain93

Boycottncsoft.com has been set up to raise awareness of NCSoft's business practices and, although it may be too late for City of Heroes players, that doesn't mean more gamers should potentially suffer.

Were you a City of Heroes Player?  Tabula Rasa?  Dungeon Runners? Exteel? Auto Assault?  They want YOUR stories, so please drop by and let them know.

Your "crusade" is bound to fail because two things seem to elude you:

• Boycotts don't work
• Petitions sometimes work

• BP
• Chick-fil-A
• Walmart
• Fox News
• Wall Street
• Red states

• Xenoblade Chronicles
• The Last Story
• GTA 5 (pc)
• God of War collection on bluray
• Kickstart projects

Originally posted by kanechart

Lot of people will not agree with me. But if I were to own any or all of them games and was not making worth while money I would still run it as a pet project as long as a few people were actually logging on once and a while. That is me though I enjoy running game servers and I like to try to make people happy. Its not going to break the bank especially since half their files been leaked on the internet and we see how little req it is to maintain a server with easily 1000+ Players on it.. Its a joke at this point the costs at a datacenter with a multicore server and 32 gigs of ram is like $200 a month at most...

 

NCsoft is not diff then EA.

 

 

PS: If they don't want to run it I will run it for them. Zing. Now whats their excuse I'm sure they will make lots like publisher this publisher that.

You = no concept of money or what goes behind keeping an MMO up and running.

Originally posted by grimgryphon

What is it with CoH players? I've never seen a group of people go into a tail-spin this much over a game in...well...never.

It's just a game. Move on.

Yeah... cause SWG never existed ;)

Well, you see thats the problem.  I doubt most of their investors read english, which means they are almost as isolated from whats really going on over here, as we are about whats really going on in Korea.  As long as NCsoft keeps spreading fairy dust around, its going to be quite some time before reality catches up with them. 

Actually, the Korean financial press has been asking pointed questions about why CoH was closed. So....I expect /they/ probably speak Korean.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Well, you see thats the problem.  I doubt most of their investors read english, which means they are almost as isolated from whats really going on over here, as we are about whats really going on in Korea.  As long as NCsoft keeps spreading fairy dust around, its going to be quite some time before reality catches up with them. 

If you are a serious investor, entrepreneur, or any other sort of business person, it is more than likely you do speak English to the point of being able to understand international business articles.

Even if you don't speak English, unless you invest only pocketchange levels of money in a global company, it is in your best interest to know how that company is doing and part of that is knowing what its reputation is, how it is perceived to be doing, and that means checking on what the international press is saying. All of the serious investors I know read company performance avidly every day from multiple news sources. That is their 'job' and it does not matter what your mother tongue is.

I am very sure that a South Korean investor of NCSoft is going to want to know if closing CoX has pissed off a lot of players in the West, unless their Western market is really so small that they can withstand losing more. However, apparently small changes in the business world can have greater-than-expected consequences.

The point someone else made on this thread about NCSoft's reputation for being quick to close Western games turning him off of wanting to invest money and time in their products has a point. I admit that them closing CoX was a very big surprise to me and has spooked me a little about GW2. If there are lots of questions about this closure, and it seems that at the moment there are, how is ANet going to be doing in a little while if NCSoft does run into trouble? The price of their shares might not be in a drastically dangerous position, but it is clear to me that their current trend is not very er... positive.

Originally posted by rochrist

Well, you see thats the problem.  I doubt most of their investors read english, which means they are almost as isolated from whats really going on over here, as we are about whats really going on in Korea.  As long as NCsoft keeps spreading fairy dust around, its going to be quite some time before reality catches up with them. 

 

Actually, the Korean financial press has been asking pointed questions about why CoH was closed. So....I expect /they/ probably speak Korean.

Thats a good bet... ^^  It depends on how deeply the information penetrates, and also who starts asking really pointed questions. 

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Your "crusade" is bound to fail because two things seem to elude you:

• Boycotts don't work
• Petitions sometimes work

Boycotts tend to try to unify personal vendettas into a larger movement. But they always seem to ignore 3 key things: who they are targeting, who they are rallying and how long it would take. Gamers by nature (especially in mmos) do not work well together very often (see any mass PvP environment) and that comradery tends to erode very quickly the longer something drags out (see zergs). People just don't really care that much for someone else's problem. You'll have a core group of supporters, but that's about all. They (boycotts) offer no incentive for the companies they are going up against (obviously), nothing for those that have no horse in the race and nothing for those quite content with the company being targeted. And no one envolved really believes that if they get more people the company will change. For more recent references see:

• BP
• Chick-fil-A
• Walmart
• Fox News
• Wall Street
• Red states

 

Petitions on the other hand are more likely to work (in a way) because the goal is to get recognized by the target on a more scaled down level. To get a game released, to get a law changed, to get a product reintroduced. And the company at hand benefits as well as those that sign on. Also when others see petition they automatically assume it's for the greater good of something and are far more likely to attract people who actually enjoy helping others. For more recent reerences see:

 

• Xenoblade Chronicles
• The Last Story
• GTA 5 (pc)
• God of War collection on bluray
• Kickstart projects

Boycotts raise awareness of dirty practices which cause a mess in PR.

There was a petition, over 20k sigs. And that not only the game was making money, it had an active comunity, there where radios in more than a few servers, CoH players gave a lot to charity, etc. A lot of RPs going on, and you couldnt spend more than a couple of days playing without finding a group of friends that would welcome you.

So yeah, there you go.

CoH is just a game as much a as Hamlet was just a play, or the Bible just a book. True, the qualities of those things are  very different, but they did inspire people and thats really all that matters, isnt it?

if you are runing a bussiness and its profitable, why kill it and piss people off?

And im sorry if you believe that most people out there are self-centered jerks, i happen to have faith in human kind.

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Originally posted by therain93

Boycottncsoft.com has been set up to raise awareness of NCSoft's business practices and, although it may be too late for City of Heroes players, that doesn't mean more gamers should potentially suffer.

Were you a City of Heroes Player?  Tabula Rasa?  Dungeon Runners? Exteel? Auto Assault?  They want YOUR stories, so please drop by and let them know.

Your "crusade" is bound to fail because two things seem to elude you:

• Boycotts don't work
• Petitions sometimes work

Boycotts tend to try to unify personal vendettas into a larger movement. But they always seem to ignore 3 key things: who they are targeting, who they are rallying and how long it would take. Gamers by nature (especially in mmos) do not work well together very often (see any mass PvP environment) and that comradery tends to erode very quickly the longer something drags out (see zergs). People just don't really care that much for someone else's problem. You'll have a core group of supporters, but that's about all. They (boycotts) offer no incentive for the companies they are going up against (obviously), nothing for those that have no horse in the race and nothing for those quite content with the company being targeted. And no one envolved really believes that if they get more people the company will change. For more recent references see:

• BP
• Chick-fil-A
• Walmart
• Fox News
• Wall Street
• Red states

 

Petitions on the other hand are more likely to work (in a way) because the goal is to get recognized by the target on a more scaled down level. To get a game released, to get a law changed, to get a product reintroduced. And the company at hand benefits as well as those that sign on. Also when others see petition they automatically assume it's for the greater good of something and are far more likely to attract people who actually enjoy helping others. For more recent reerences see:

 

• Xenoblade Chronicles
• The Last Story
• GTA 5 (pc)
• God of War collection on bluray
• Kickstart projects

"Bound to fail" is a pretty bold and definitive prediction considering the primary purpose (as stated in the first sentence of my original that you quoted) is to raise awareness of their business practices.  ( ' :

Originally posted by LhynnSaint

Boycotts raise awareness of dirty practices which cause a mess in PR.

There was a petition, over 20k sigs. And that not only the game was making money, it had an active comunity, there where radios in more than a few servers, CoH players gave a lot to charity, etc. A lot of RPs going on, and you couldnt spend more than a couple of days playing without finding a group of friends that would welcome you.

So yeah, there you go.

CoH is just a game as much a as Hamlet was just a play, or the Bible just a book. True, the qualities of those things are  very different, but they did inspire people and thats really all that matters, isnt it?

if you are runing a bussiness and its profitable, why kill it and piss people off?

And im sorry if you believe that most people out there are self-centered jerks, i happen to have faith in human kind.

CoX, like the older games on the market, fostered that community you describe: strong ties, firmly rooted, and going strong since the game's release. This very well could be a rarity in the global MMORPG industry and something tied mainly to how it all started in the West. Many of today's games do not foster communities like that anymore anywhere in the world and it is very possible that the people involved in decision-making at NCSoft are not the same ones who did so when CoX was released.

It is more than likely that despite being a game company, the people making decisions in NCSoft do not game themselves, or do not game at least in their Western games. I think that NCSoft did not realize quite what effect they would have by closing down a game that was profitable, yes, but as someone already said, probably was sacrificied because it didn't seem that important in perspective.

They have made a mistake and are taking a beating for it now. I am pretty sure they will survive, but they are going to come out with a serious black eye. I think that is good, because gaming as a hobby produces strong emotions and shouldn't be run exactly like other businesses in my opinion.

Originally posted by LhynnSaint

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Your "crusade" is bound to fail because two things seem to elude you:

• Boycotts don't work
• Petitions sometimes work

Boycotts tend to try to unify personal vendettas into a larger movement. But they always seem to ignore 3 key things: who they are targeting, who they are rallying and how long it would take. Gamers by nature (especially in mmos) do not work well together very often (see any mass PvP environment) and that comradery tends to erode very quickly the longer something drags out (see zergs). People just don't really care that much for someone else's problem. You'll have a core group of supporters, but that's about all. They (boycotts) offer no incentive for the companies they are going up against (obviously), nothing for those that have no horse in the race and nothing for those quite content with the company being targeted. And no one envolved really believes that if they get more people the company will change. For more recent references see:

• BP
• Chick-fil-A
• Walmart
• Fox News
• Wall Street
• Red states

 

Petitions on the other hand are more likely to work (in a way) because the goal is to get recognized by the target on a more scaled down level. To get a game released, to get a law changed, to get a product reintroduced. And the company at hand benefits as well as those that sign on. Also when others see petition they automatically assume it's for the greater good of something and are far more likely to attract people who actually enjoy helping others. For more recent reerences see:

 

• Xenoblade Chronicles
• The Last Story
• GTA 5 (pc)
• God of War collection on bluray
• Kickstart projects

Boycotts raise awareness of dirty practices which cause a mess in PR.

There was a petition, over 20k sigs. And that not only the game was making money, it had an active comunity, there where radios in more than a few servers, CoH players gave a lot to charity, etc. A lot of RPs going on, and you couldnt spend more than a couple of days playing without finding a group of friends that would welcome you.

So yeah, there you go.

CoH is just a game as much a as Hamlet was just a play, or the Bible just a book. True, the qualities of those things are  very different, but they did inspire people and thats really all that matters, isnt it?

if you are runing a bussiness and its profitable, why kill it and piss people off?

And im sorry if you believe that most people out there are self-centered jerks, i happen to have faith in human kind.

Raise awareness to what? A overseas gaming company making a decision to close down an aging superhero mmo that really didn't perform like they expected it to since they bought it from Cryptic Studios 5 years ago? Bought it, started a new studio called Paragon Studios in Cali and funded both development and distribution for 5 years?!? That's your dirty practice? Yeah ok...

You may think doing business overseas is cheap and you'd be right if we were talking about China or some 3rd world country were land and labor is cheap. But we're talking about a Korean gaming company doing business in America and trust me, that ain't cheap. I'm sure they are looking at their gaming porfolio and crunching numbers to see what stays and what goes as the prepare to release two more mmorpgs over here.

Look I empathize with your situation with letting go of something you've cherished and enjoyed for so long. But it's the end of a game, not the world. There is still Champions Online that is a fairly good CoX substitute. Like I said, those that wish to rally the torches and pitchforks need to pick their battles carefully less they find themselves being led by the village idiot.

BTW I'm one of the most optimistic people my friends and family know. I fix pcs for 20 bucks a pop, make websites for dirt cheap and would give you the shirt off my back. with approval from my wife of course But even I know that all good things come to an end. I've been on the recieving end of game shutdowns for a mighty long time and it's never easy. But you will recover. NCSoft is NOT the bad guys in this particular case.

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Raise awareness to what? A overseas gaming company making a decision to close down an aging superhero mmo that really didn't perform like they expected it to since they bought it from Cryptic Studios 5 years ago? Bought it, started a new studio called Paragon Studios in Cali and funded both development and distribution for 5 years?!? That's your dirty practice? Yeah ok...

 

You may think doing business overseas is cheap and you'd be right if we were talking about China or some 3rd world country were land and labor is cheap. But we're talking about a Korean gaming company doing business in America and trust me, that ain't cheap. I'm sure they are looking at their gaming porfolio and crunching numbers to see what stays and what goes as the prepare to release two more mmorpgs over here.

 

Look I empathize with your situation with letting go of something you've cherished and enjoyed for so long. But it's the end of a game, not the world. There is still Champions Online that is a fairly good CoX substitute. Like I said, those that wish to rally the torches and pitchforks need to pick their battles carefully less they find themselves being led by the village idiot.

 

BTW I'm one of the most optimistic people my friends and family know. I fix pcs for 20 bucks a pop, make websites for dirt cheap and would give you the shirt off my back. with approval from my wife of course But even I know that all good things come to an end. I've been on the recieving end of game shutdowns for a mighty long time and it's never easy. But you will recover. NCSoft is NOT the bad guys in this particular case.

They were losing nothing by keeping it alive, just making less money than they like to, now they are losing money and losing face, made a whole lot of people really unhappy.

So i really fail to see your logic. how did they make the right choice?

Originally posted by LhynnSaint

Originally posted by Ramonski7

Raise awareness to what? A overseas gaming company making a decision to close down an aging superhero mmo that really didn't perform like they expected it to since they bought it from Cryptic Studios 5 years ago? Bought it, started a new studio called Paragon Studios in Cali and funded both development and distribution for 5 years?!? That's your dirty practice? Yeah ok...

 

You may think doing business overseas is cheap and you'd be right if we were talking about China or some 3rd world country were land and labor is cheap. But we're talking about a Korean gaming company doing business in America and trust me, that ain't cheap. I'm sure they are looking at their gaming porfolio and crunching numbers to see what stays and what goes as the prepare to release two more mmorpgs over here.

 

Look I empathize with your situation with letting go of something you've cherished and enjoyed for so long. But it's the end of a game, not the world. There is still Champions Online that is a fairly good CoX substitute. Like I said, those that wish to rally the torches and pitchforks need to pick their battles carefully less they find themselves being led by the village idiot.

 

BTW I'm one of the most optimistic people my friends and family know. I fix pcs for 20 bucks a pop, make websites for dirt cheap and would give you the shirt off my back. with approval from my wife of course But even I know that all good things come to an end. I've been on the recieving end of game shutdowns for a mighty long time and it's never easy. But you will recover. NCSoft is NOT the bad guys in this particular case.

They were losing nothing by keeping it alive, just making less money than they like to, now they are losing money and losing face, made a whole lot of people really unhappy.

So i really fail to see your logic. how did they make the right choice?

Pure speculation on your part. We don't know what they were losing. I do know about the Lineage 3 source code leak that caused them a loss in revenue this year, the terrible economy that saw video games sales declining for 12 consecutive months this year and I also know that out of the last 5 quarters that NCSoft has had, only one had outperformed the estimates. So they have been losing money well before they decided to close CoX and honestly it was an investment that didn't play off.

Look, recently Hostess shut down shop and people have to go without their Twinkies for the first time in 82 years. This effects MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people. A hell of a lot more than the few thousand effected by COX closing. And even though those two companies seemed to have ruined the lives of millions of people, NEITHER of them provided a necessity. And no matter how deeply you or I feel about it, they are/were both in it for the money. So even if they are losing face as you claim, I highly doubt anyone thought CoX was the face of NCSoft.

Originally posted by xDrac
[mod edit]

Given the time and effort involved in a typical MMO, its hardly surprising that people would react to this type of situation. 

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by xDrac
[mod edit]

Given the time and effort involved in a typical MMO, its hardly surprising that people would react to this type of situation. 

Well, most people there played had over 10k hours logged in. But i think you fail to see the point...

Its not like they lost their monopoly, or a couple of dice and a players handbook. they actually lost an important part of their lives. It wasnt the game, it was everything that it entails.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

I'm interested in seeing how many 'boycottncsoft' people will remember this mission when they buy their preorders of Wildstar and Blade & Soul.

 

It'll be pretty easy to avoid those games since they look pretty bad anyway.