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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] General: About the Teardown Mentality

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77 posts found
  daltanious

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/19/08
Posts: 1565

12/08/12 2:01:00 AM#41
Originally posted by Naucano

The problem is not to be negative, but to be negative just for the sake of it or without argument or reason.

Too many forum writers are positiv or negative without an argument. If there is a reason to complain, you are allowed, you are bound, you need to complain.

Exactly this is the problem as I also stressed many times. Some people should be banned access to keyboard or at least to ANY gaming forum. 

They find some kind of twisted, sick pleasure destroying something they do not even play or look. Games I do not like or do not play I never chase on any possible forums trying to tear them down. I'm sure such mind sick personalities act same way in their lives. Usually they are total loosers but they need attention.

As said ... do not like? Fine, do not play and stay AWAY!

Many, too many, if not perfect then playable games, have been destroyed literaly by such sickos.

 
  allendale5

Novice Member

Joined: 8/19/12
Posts: 125

12/08/12 3:27:02 AM#42
  • I don't think that a forum dedicated solely to praising games would be interesting, constructive,  or successful.  
  • Sanitized and highly moderated forums are always a failure and players always see through the propaganda.  
  • Negativity sells.  Just turn on the television and see what news stories lead the way.  Wars, death, accidents, screw-ups, cover-ups, sex scandals -- that's what people seem to want.  Show me a positive news channel that is successful.
  • Players have the right to voice their honest opinions.  If we buy into the hype of a game and pay good money for it, and if that cookie turns out to be a rotten turnip, we should be able to express our distaste.
Victor -- on a personal note : I always enjoy your posts and your positive influence on this site, but having said that, I think that it's fair to say that we have all been negative at some point here, but only in a collective effort to improve the games that we love.  
  MurlockDance

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1065

12/08/12 3:33:59 AM#43

Good post, but on a slight aside:

It depends on why you come to a gaming forum in the first place. In my case, it is not really to harp on negative things. I do sometimes complain, but I try to state why I dislike something. I do also sometimes post positively too. I also admit to coming on here to see what people have to say about a new release.

However, there is a lot more to MMORPG than that: blogs, screenshots, posts about hardware, forums about discussing the direction of games, getting advice about what game fits a certain playstyle, and also about the MMO industry as a whole.

I used to go on another major gaming forum too and there were similar things on offer. So let's not forget about those aspects of forums like these when dissing the people who come here ;)

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  Yolen

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/12
Posts: 14

12/08/12 4:37:08 AM#44

To be honest, both haters and fanboys are bad to the game.

That put aside I think that a LOT of fault is on developers:

1. They try to overhype game, making it a next messiah of MMOS - and even if game is decent, that is not enough. Sure, initial sales will be blow up by people who listened to hype - but will they stay? Heck no.

2. They rest on laureals. They launch game and take vacation, put a patch once few months and think that's enough. Uh... nope? You must hit hard and fast and don't stop hitting.

3. They don't LISTEN, they don't SOCIALIZE - they put themselves on high horses and above players. You wanna be a developer? Join communities, listen to people, analyze, react...

4. They join big companies like EA or ACTIVISION. Well if you sold your soul to the highest bidder and let the suits take control - don't come whining players are frustrated.

5. They build content instead of systems, especially the ones that let players make content byu their actions. So no wonder players are bored if you only put stuff reiniscent of a singleplayer DLC...

Probably it, remind me if I forgot something.

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

12/08/12 4:48:30 AM#45

I thought the same way for a while, but have come to realize it's not the tear down mentality...games just really suck. You have a generation that's been raised on cinematic button tappers, and the generation before that is no longer catered too. One is spoiled, so they are unhappy with anything you give them. The other is unhappy with the decline in the quality of modern games.

Both are angry, but there is a single solution to pleasing them both: Make a good game.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Theodwulf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/01/12
Posts: 185

12/08/12 5:54:22 AM#46

     This sort of reasoning is what game developers  keep citing as a defence for badly made games. It's not some cabal of angry internet folk, living in their parents basement trying to hurt you to prop up their own failing self esteem. The game was that bad. The hype so manufactured by the  online shills. The industry critics were so paid off. and the game was that bad.That is why people were enraged by the bad games.  I am so tired of industry apologists trying to regain their lost credibility, We know that you are a shill for game makers. You sold out and can never be held credible again.  Your opinion is now considered puffery.If game devs want to be considered credible again, make a good game. If industry reporters want to be held credible again..stop whoring out your name to the creators of bad games.

 

 

 

  MumboJumbo

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3068

Veni, Vidi, Converti

12/08/12 5:59:34 AM#47
Originally posted by therain93

Dear DAG (Devil's Advocate Guy),

I think you missed a very important point -- the notion of cognitive dissonance.  Basically, when people are holding conflicting ideas, beliefs, or emotions, one of the atural reactions is to try to reduce or eliminate that dissonance while maintaining their belief structure.  A typical example is buyer's remorse when purchasing a new car and seeking out reasons to justify why that purcharse was worthwhile.

In the context of this column, ripping another game or criticizing praise for another game can also be a defense mechanism to reinforce the belief that what you've chosen is much better and worthwhile.

Good addition - people can hold contradictory evidence in their pov and airbrush the conclusion to match their committed position already.

This pic captures something!:

tweets_vs_pecks

  Derros

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/16/09
Posts: 949

12/08/12 8:20:37 AM#48

Bashing a game is now part of the game experience, a new form of entertainment.  Its part of the constantly connected, constantly posting every little thought mentality of facebook and twitter and all this social networking. 

 

You could produce the 2nd coming of ultima, AC, EQ and WoW, all blended seamlessly into one perfectly harmonious game, and forums would be flooded with hate, because that IS the game for many people.  Thats how they socialize online.

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2157

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

12/08/12 9:34:12 AM#49
Originally posted by Terranah

There's two kinds of negativity around here.  One is negativity against games.  It may be constructive, it may be venting, it may be unflattering comparisions. 

 

The other kind of negativity is toward other gamers. 

 

At least the negativity towards games is more on point.  And what some people call negativity I call insight. 

Those two things are often intertwined - more often than not, I see negativity toward gamers due to their negativity toward a game.

Ex: 'WoW is a kiddie game'. The gamer is insulted because of the posters negative opinion about the game. 

  victorbjr

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/13/10
Posts: 152

12/08/12 9:36:21 AM#50

Hey folks.

 

Apologies for not responding sooner, as I've not been feeling great, and then I had to cover a Philippine game development awards ceremony tonight. 

I want to take the most insightful comments here and respond to them in next DA while using the other half of my write-up to discuss another topic (which I shall determine depending on what happens in the realms of gaming in the coming week).

That said, props to therain93 for pointing out cognitive dissonance and Loktofeit for finding the powder keg thing. I was going nuts looking for the terminology and thought it was tipping point, but Powder keg analogies also work well. :D

A writer and gamer from the Philippines. Loves his mom dearly. :)

Can also be found on http://www.gamesandgeekery.com

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/08/12 10:00:45 AM#51

Or, expressed more simply, victim mentality negativity is contagious.

We knew that.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  TangentPoint

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 972

The "Real Game" begins at character creation.

12/08/12 11:37:47 AM#52
Originally posted by MsFit
What a pretty blue crab.

I don't care who said what afterward.

MsFit wins this discussion straight out of the gate.

 

Seriously though, very good article! An interesting look at an extremely common, even definitive, kind of behavior on gaming forums.

 

 

My philosophy on MMORPGs:

Leveling is what happens while you're playing the rest of the game.

Don't worry about levels. Just play.

  VendettaDFA

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/12
Posts: 74

12/08/12 11:43:34 AM#53
Originally posted by TangentPoint
Originally posted by MsFit
What a pretty blue crab.

I don't care who said what afterward.

MsFit wins this discussion straight out of the gate.

 

Seriously though, very good article! An interesting look at an extremely common, even definitive, kind of behavior on gaming forums.

 

 

Agreed . I especially like posts within this very thread that serve as examples of the original posters comments.

  gaeanprayer

Novice Member

Joined: 8/06/08
Posts: 2359

12/08/12 11:44:19 AM#54
Originally posted by bliss14
Originally posted by gaeanprayer

I never really saw this until I stepped away from this site for a while, been too busy enjoying GW2 and like, participating in life n' stuff. I popped in the other day and was almost knocked over by how polar opposite the people on this site are to every other site out there. It's pretty poisonous in here, probably about time to be even more heavy-handed on the penalties and bans.

 

In any case, I don't think this is about entitlement nor do I think this is about the games themselves. I think this boils down to psychology; human beings are by nature evil, vile, gross and without redemption. You like to think you are naturally good and occasionally do bad things, but it's the opposite. Then you get into an online environment where anonymity let's you be the thing you truly are behind closed doors, mob mentality kicks in, and you have what this article claims, the "teardown generation". In other words, people do it for no other reason than that they can, because people are no better than animals and more often than not, are far worse.

 

The end.

Wow.  Someone has lost their faith in humanity.  I'm curious if you think it applies to you?

It does, though some of us are better at fighting our urges than others.

"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3070

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

12/08/12 11:50:24 AM#55


Originally posted by Fearum
If you don't like a game, wtf is the point of repeated negative posts on a forum to others that actually like the game?

There's where you lose it, These forums are not dedicated to people who just 'like the game'. But a discussion consisting of thoughts and opinions about the game.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  aktalat

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 1/30/11
Posts: 176

Wookiee. Jetpack. Lifeday moomoo. Flying into the SWG sunset on Lok.

12/08/12 12:02:04 PM#56

I confess to 'tearing down' games, but I also want to make it clear that most of my 'teardown' has been during the last 5+ years, not in 1997 when UO came out, or 2003 when SWG came out, etc..

Somewhere around the time of WoW games became 'big bizness' and a lot of what makes a game fun just vanished into a maze of zerg-fest cash-shop freemium grinder garbage.

Imagine playing D&D as a kid and being told you need to buy in-game currency for real-world $$$ to outfit your character to begin play, or having to pay real-world $$$ to have a multi-class profession since only single-class professions start free. Bleh.

Most of the games of the last 5+ years don't even seem vaguely like games: they're just ad hoc revenue schemes, and if that makes me a person with a 'teardown mentality' then yes, I admit to it. :)

  EzraSteel

Novice Member

Joined: 3/08/11
Posts: 16

12/08/12 12:38:18 PM#57

 

Very interesting article.

 

Years ago when I first started out in forums and was a director of a forum on AOL, I got a real taste of what was to come.  I always viewed it from the standpoint that people feel that they have a certain anonymity in what they post.  Things that they would never say in a face to face meeting, they do without thought on forums because they are protected from most repercussions that would take place in a more standard social settings.

A friend who was acting as my mentor at the time advised me to "alway smile from the wrists down" when posting on forums.  This advice I've kept with me all these years.

As someone else has pointed out, the bulk of the voices heard on forums are the minority.  Many people read forums on a daily basis and do not reply, preferring instead, to keep their opinions to themselves or to not engage in the war of words that can quickly ensue.

Thanks for the good read.

 

EZ

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3546

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

12/08/12 12:50:43 PM#58
The phrase "Haters got to hate" is all too true.  Some people are just like that. Others have tendences, that get enhanced by other peoples actions.  It also ties in to the One True Game(tm) syndrome I've mentioned.  Tie that all together with marketing hype, and the nature of the internet and you end up with the toxic sludge we've seen way too much of. 
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11360

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

12/08/12 1:52:46 PM#59
Originally posted by VendettaDFA
Opinions on anything in forums are fine and criticisms if constructive and explained should be accepted. Differing opinions exist. The problem comes when someone feels they are not winning the discussion of opinion and begins replacing fact or on topic information with personal attacks or assumptions of who this person with the view contrary to theirs actually is.

Another problem seems to be the presentation of one's views as fact, not in an attempt to mislead but rather because the person is genuinely assuming that if it is their situation and experience then that is the majority situation or experience.

  Draron

Novice Member

Joined: 5/07/11
Posts: 1009

12/08/12 2:44:02 PM#60
Not liking a game is fine. Sharing what you don't like is fine. Bringing it up every thread on the game specific forum is beating a dead horse and just spewing negativity on the community. Want a good example? Check out the SWTOR forums on this site. Same three or four people (not calling out names but regulars there know who) there post in nearly most every topic. You have to be a masochist to read it, and delusional if your thinking you can get a decent conversation about the game there without those posters derailing it.
 
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