Originally posted by Ginaz
Didn't SWTOR win a bunch of awards last year?

nice sig

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by Ginaz
Didn't SWTOR win a bunch of awards last year?

nice sig

Irony at its best.

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Greyhooff

Originally posted by Ginaz
Didn't SWTOR win a bunch of awards last year?

nice sig

Irony at its best.

My current sig below was correct. My paint skills have mad predictive power.

If Martha Stewart Living gave it GOTY, GW2 fans would be screaming, "See, it IS the best game of 2012!"

Seriously, it's Time magazine. Let's wait for nomination/awards from people who actually are in the business of reporting on MMOs.  Or better yet, player awards. 

2012 hasn't really been a great year for releases, so I'm not sure there's much pride to be taken from one site nominating it.  There were a few big name sequals, but most felt like more of the same.  That's not bad, just not the kind of thing you have make lists like this.

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.  There has also been a large falling out of the community with GW2, mainly due to the overhype and fanboi/hater dynamic that happens with these games.  I'm sure GW2 will continue to do very well, but I expect it to remain as relevant in the industry as the first one was.  A solid game for people who like the B2P model and gameplay, but not the industry changer anyone expected.

And, like someone else said, SWtOR was nominated for many of these kinds of awards last year and we all know how that ended up.

Originally posted by asmkm22

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.

based on what?

D3 had  outstanding aunch sales and seems to have fizzled after its first month (May/June)

and no other PC game in *history* came close to Diablo3 launch month sales

I cannot prove anything

but I think its reasonable to believe that GW2 is outselling D3 for continual sales

I dont mean overall sales,  I mean ongoing sales if you were to look at November 2012 and December 2012

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by asmkm22

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.

based on what?

D3 had  outstanding aunch sales and seems to have fizzled after its first month (May/June)

and no other PC game in *history* came close to Diablo3 launch month sales

 

I cannot prove anything

but I think its reasonable to believe that GW2 is outselling D3 for continual sales

 

I dont mean overall sales,  I mean ongoing sales if you were to look at November 2012 and December 2012

D3....phhffffft.  D4 won't get a 1/4 of the sales D3 did.  Thats how bad D3 was/is.

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by asmkm22

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.

 I think its reasonable to believe that GW2 is outselling D3 for continual sales

I dont mean overall sales,  I mean ongoing sales if you were to look at November 2012 and December 2012

D3....phhffffft.  D4 won't get a 1/4 of the sales D3 did.  Thats how bad D3 was/is.

agree - there's a planned expansion for D3

D3 expansion should do ok but wont compare to D3 launch sales

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by asmkm22

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.

based on what?

D3 had  outstanding aunch sales and seems to have fizzled after its first month (May/June)

and no other PC game in *history* came close to Diablo3 launch month sales

 

I cannot prove anything

but I think its reasonable to believe that GW2 is outselling D3 for continual sales

 

I dont mean overall sales,  I mean ongoing sales if you were to look at November 2012 and December 2012

I'd have to disagree.  I think D3 is still selling fairly well.

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by asmkm22

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.

based on what?

D3 had  outstanding aunch sales and seems to have fizzled after its first month (May/June)

and no other PC game in *history* came close to Diablo3 launch month sales

 

I cannot prove anything

but I think its reasonable to believe that GW2 is outselling D3 for continual sales

 

I dont mean overall sales,  I mean ongoing sales if you were to look at November 2012 and December 2012

Total sales are all that matters here.  In another year, I can revise my opinion on that based on new data, but for now, all we can go on is the total.

The most accurate numbers out are 6.8M for Diablo 3 (as of July when the last figures were released) and "over 2M" as of mid September for Guild Wars 2.

In both cases, the numbers likely haven't moved up much more than that.  Companies tend to send out press releases and such when they hit new milestones, especially with game sales.  We'll hear from ANet when they top 3M, and we'll here from Blizzard when they top 7 or 8M.

Again, next year, I may be singing a different tune.  But right now, sales numbers are in Blizzard's favor.  One interesting thing to keep track of is how active the games stay, rather than the sales, since neither requires a subscription.  Currently, both have nearly identical xFire numbers, giving GW2 the advantage there (higher percentage of active players to total units sold).  We'll see how it looks in 6 to 8 months.

Originally posted by asmkm22

2012 hasn't really been a great year for releases, so I'm not sure there's much pride to be taken from one site nominating it.  There were a few big name sequals, but most felt like more of the same.  That's not bad, just not the kind of thing you have make lists like this.

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.  There has also been a large falling out of the community with GW2, mainly due to the overhype and fanboi/hater dynamic that happens with these games.  I'm sure GW2 will continue to do very well, but I expect it to remain as relevant in the industry as the first one was.  A solid game for people who like the B2P model and gameplay, but not the industry changer anyone expected.

And, like someone else said, SWtOR was nominated for many of these kinds of awards last year and we all know how that ended up.

The game is doing well, or seems to be. I can't prove my case you can't prove yours. It has more to do with real vs. personal expectations. GW2 has done a few things different and this will impact some of the industry. I wasn't happy with some of the things left out of the game - GvG, Guild Halls, etc. But it happens.

 Trion and Rift will do the same by continually putting out content that keeps players.

There were some things that SWTOR did well - the voice acting and the cut scenes but, it did not have a good storyline.

The game industry CAN learn from these - just remember -  "Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it"  - Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by asmkm22

2012 hasn't really been a great year for releases, so I'm not sure there's much pride to be taken from one site nominating it.  There were a few big name sequals, but most felt like more of the same.  That's not bad, just not the kind of thing you have make lists like this.

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.  There has also been a large falling out of the community with GW2, mainly due to the overhype and fanboi/hater dynamic that happens with these games.  I'm sure GW2 will continue to do very well, but I expect it to remain as relevant in the industry as the first one was.  A solid game for people who like the B2P model and gameplay, but not the industry changer anyone expected.

And, like someone else said, SWtOR was nominated for many of these kinds of awards last year and we all know how that ended up.

The game is doing well, or seems to be. I can't prove my case you can't prove yours. It has more to do with real vs. personal expectations. GW2 has done a few things different and this will impact some of the industry. I wasn't happy with some of the things left out of the game - GvG, Guild Halls, etc. But it happens.

 

 Trion and Rift will do the same by continually putting out content that keeps players.

 

There were some things that SWTOR did well - the voice acting and the cut scenes but, it did not have a good storyline.

 

The game industry CAN learn from these - just remember -  "Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it"  - Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás

I think the key word here is was.  GW2 was doing well.  From the initial launch, it is easy to see the drop in general players.   I think they are still declining but it's a much less sharp one.

It's been a very weird year for the MMO genre as a whole.

Here, on one hand, you had one of the biggest IPs in an P2P MMO lose a huge portion of its playerbase and drop to F2P.

On the other,  you had a smaller IP and studio release a universally praised B2P MMO.  One would think due to the lack of a sub, the sales numbers would have been higher than last reported. 

But it seems like the payment model isn't really factoring in to keeping player retention.

Hopefully this coming year will shed more light on where this genre is actually headed.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by asmkm22

2012 hasn't really been a great year for releases, so I'm not sure there's much pride to be taken from one site nominating it.  There were a few big name sequals, but most felt like more of the same.  That's not bad, just not the kind of thing you have make lists like this.

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.  There has also been a large falling out of the community with GW2, mainly due to the overhype and fanboi/hater dynamic that happens with these games.  I'm sure GW2 will continue to do very well, but I expect it to remain as relevant in the industry as the first one was.  A solid game for people who like the B2P model and gameplay, but not the industry changer anyone expected.

And, like someone else said, SWtOR was nominated for many of these kinds of awards last year and we all know how that ended up.

The game is doing well, or seems to be. I can't prove my case you can't prove yours. It has more to do with real vs. personal expectations. GW2 has done a few things different and this will impact some of the industry. I wasn't happy with some of the things left out of the game - GvG, Guild Halls, etc. But it happens.

 

 Trion and Rift will do the same by continually putting out content that keeps players.

 

There were some things that SWTOR did well - the voice acting and the cut scenes but, it did not have a good storyline.

 

The game industry CAN learn from these - just remember -  "Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it"  - Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás

I think that's an important thing to keep in mind.  Games don't need to break records to have a loyal following and fun gameplay.  Trion is one of the rare companies that seems content with financial mediocrity, and I mean that in a positive way.  They're subscription base isn't very high, but it's high enough to make a profit.  They have a solid, dedicated team of devs constantly tweaking the game so it doesn't just languish in a half-broken or feature-missing state for years like nearly every other game not made by Blizzard.

Originally posted by asmkm22    We'll see how it looks in 6 to 8 months.

i agree :)

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by asmkm22

2012 hasn't really been a great year for releases, so I'm not sure there's much pride to be taken from one site nominating it.  There were a few big name sequals, but most felt like more of the same.  That's not bad, just not the kind of thing you have make lists like this.

In terms of sales, GW2 isn't doing so hot.  Not bad, but not nearly as well as compared to games like Diablo 3.  There has also been a large falling out of the community with GW2, mainly due to the overhype and fanboi/hater dynamic that happens with these games.  I'm sure GW2 will continue to do very well, but I expect it to remain as relevant in the industry as the first one was.  A solid game for people who like the B2P model and gameplay, but not the industry changer anyone expected.

And, like someone else said, SWtOR was nominated for many of these kinds of awards last year and we all know how that ended up.

The game is doing well, or seems to be. I can't prove my case you can't prove yours. It has more to do with real vs. personal expectations. GW2 has done a few things different and this will impact some of the industry. I wasn't happy with some of the things left out of the game - GvG, Guild Halls, etc. But it happens.

 

 Trion and Rift will do the same by continually putting out content that keeps players.

 

There were some things that SWTOR did well - the voice acting and the cut scenes but, it did not have a good storyline.

 

The game industry CAN learn from these - just remember -  "Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it"  - Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás

I think that's an important thing to keep in mind.  Games don't need to break records to have a loyal following and fun gameplay.  Trion is one of the rare companies that seems content with financial mediocrity, and I mean that in a positive way.  They're subscription base isn't very high, but it's high enough to make a profit.  They have a solid, dedicated team of devs constantly tweaking the game so it doesn't just languish in a half-broken or feature-missing state for years like nearly every other game not made by Blizzard.

The sooner these developers stop chasing the WoW numbers, the better.  That kind of success in an MMO is not feasible right now.  At least for the foreseeable future.   Niche is where its at.  And there is plenty of room for that. 

Originally posted by grimal

 

I think the key word here is was.  GW2 was doing well.  From the initial launch, it is easy to see the drop in general players.   I think they are still declining but it's a much less sharp one.

It's been a very weird year for the MMO genre as a whole.

Here, on one hand, you had one of the biggest IPs in an P2P MMO lose a huge portion of its playerbase and drop to F2P.

On the other,  you had a smaller IP and studio release a universally praised B2P MMO.  One would think due to the lack of a sub, the sales numbers would have been higher than last reported. 

But it seems like the payment model isn't really factoring in to keeping player retention.

Hopefully this coming year will shed more light on where this genre is actually headed.

I have a feeling it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better, just due to the long development cycle of an MMO.  The stuff we're seeing released now got started 2 to 4 years ago, which is reflected by the game designs.  AAA studios that are developing one are being faced with the choice of either contuing with the original, outdated game design or trying to change direction towards where they THINK players will be in the next few years.  Instead, a lot are just going with option A but with a cash shop and low/no sub fee just hoping to make a return on their investment.

The indie dev's can pump out games a lot faster without the publisher interference, but I think the every one of these hipster sandbox bandwagon attempts will result in half-finished games that ultimately disappoint everyone, one after another.

Once we get out of this genre funk, probably when WoW subs drop off significanty (or the game finishes it's weird metamorphisis into some ultra-casual game aimed at the children of the original players), we'll probably see something pretty solid get released to the level of success that WoW had/has.  It's going to be roughly a year or two after the next generation of consoles hit the market though.

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by grimal

 

I think the key word here is was.  GW2 was doing well.  From the initial launch, it is easy to see the drop in general players.   I think they are still declining but it's a much less sharp one.

It's been a very weird year for the MMO genre as a whole.

Here, on one hand, you had one of the biggest IPs in an P2P MMO lose a huge portion of its playerbase and drop to F2P.

On the other,  you had a smaller IP and studio release a universally praised B2P MMO.  One would think due to the lack of a sub, the sales numbers would have been higher than last reported. 

But it seems like the payment model isn't really factoring in to keeping player retention.

Hopefully this coming year will shed more light on where this genre is actually headed.

 

I have a feeling it's going to get a lot worse before it gets any better, just due to the long development cycle of an MMO.  The stuff we're seeing released now got started 2 to 4 years ago, which is reflected by the game designs.  AAA studios that are developing one are being faced with the choice of either contuing with the original, outdated game design or trying to change direction towards where they THINK players will be in the next few years.  Instead, a lot are just going with option A but with a cash shop and low/no sub fee just hoping to make a return on their investment.

The indie dev's can pump out games a lot faster without the publisher interference, but I think the every one of these hipster sandbox bandwagon attempts will result in half-finished games that ultimately disappoint everyone, one after another.

Once we get out of this genre funk, probably when WoW subs drop off significanty (or the game finishes it's weird metamorphisis into some ultra-casual game aimed at the children of the original players), we'll probably see something pretty solid get released to the level of success that WoW had/has.  It's going to be roughly a year or two after the next generation of consoles hit the market though.

GW2 was announced 5-6 years ago. I agree it is a very long cycle. People that keep saying ' we want worlds!' - that would even be a longer development. Look how long the movie Avatar took to make. A game is that much more intensive because you are interacting in the world not just observing it.

I say let the game companies make their vision. I applaud TSW for the idea of the game - it was so unique but was dissappointed by the game play. Let's see how they play out rather than just jumping on top of the dogpile.

Originally posted by Ginaz
Didn't SWTOR win a bunch of awards last year?

yep. Best evidence that any kinds of "awards" and GOTY lists are meaningless and most likely paid off from the marketing budget.