Originally posted by Novusod
What I heard back when NCsoft shut down Paragon studios was that CoH was actually making money. The thing is they wanted to shut it down so they could pump more resources into GW2 which is under performing. GW2 has done ok from a gamer cummunity perspective but has not yet recooped the development costs. So yeah this is all about GW2.

"What I heard......"

well, there you go go folks - we now have the facts

Originally posted by Cheboygan

Originally posted by Novusod
What I heard back when NCsoft shut down Paragon studios was that CoH was actually making money. The thing is they wanted to shut it down so they could pump more resources into GW2 which is under performing. GW2 has done ok from a gamer cummunity perspective but has not yet recooped the development costs. So yeah this is all about GW2.

"What I heard......"

well, there you go go folks - we now have the facts

 

Actually, the Korean Times article on the issue also says CoH was profitable.

GW1 will end up being in trouble before GW2.

There is no point getting into GW1 at all now, for fear of a shut down, and just focus on GW2, but with this news, it does not add confidence but if it is true that COH was shut down to focus on GW2, then GW2 should be quite safe, unless their finaces worsen further, and into bankruptcy

However, I am not touching a MMO or anything associated with NC Soft again, until they start to become more reasonable. They do business in an unreasonable manner, and it resulted in the closure of Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault, and now COH. They may have needed to close COH but they could have sold the IP to another company to take it over, and they did offer to sell it but it came with unreasonable demands.

Originally posted by Roxtarr

Originally posted by Cheboygan

Originally posted by Novusod
What I heard back when NCsoft shut down Paragon studios was that CoH was actually making money. The thing is they wanted to shut it down so they could pump more resources into GW2 which is under performing. GW2 has done ok from a gamer cummunity perspective but has not yet recooped the development costs. So yeah this is all about GW2.

"What I heard......"

well, there you go go folks - we now have the facts

 

Actually, the Korean Times article on the issue also says CoH was profitable.

 Profitable doesn't mean much by itself. They were probably looking at the trends and the likelyhood of increased operating costs. In this economic climate everyone is struggling. Putting more effort into GW2 makes sense not because it's under performing, if it is, but because it has a higher potential for future profits.

Mercedes Lackey? Seriously? WTF does she know about anything besides writing moderately successful SF?

Originally posted by DMKano

The insider word on the street was that GW2 was underperforming, this pretty much confirms those rumors. 

I hope all those affected land on their feet - layoffs during holiday season is just heartless.

GW2s goal was 3 million copies sold until 31st december (Source: NC soft prelaunch). We know that it sold out abou 2.2 million copies a few weeks after launch. It have sold some more copies since so it probably is somewhere near 2.3-2.6M copies right now.

That is less than target number but X-mas season is up soon so it might sell more or less.

But even if it "just" sold minimum copies there is no way that can be the real reason beyond massive layoffs, it still have minimum sold 75% of target numbers and unless someone in NC soft had the silly idea that everyone who bought the game would spend $100+ in the itemshop (which would be impressive even for a F2P game and totally unrealistic) there is no way that is a big enough disaster for NC soft to make massive layoffs.

So lets think a second, is there some other NC soft games out that have underperformed far under expactations the last few years?

Well, Aion comes to mind first but there are others as well. Korean (as well as Chinese) made games generally do bad in the west and other companies than NC soft have found out this the hard way as well. 

But feel free to blame GW2 if it makes you feel better, personally I have wondered why they didnt do this before. GW2 is probably NC softs only game that is popular in the West at the moment. Aion didnt go F2P becuase NC soft wanted to be kind, it couldnt support P2P any longer.

Originally posted by Roxtarr

Originally posted by Cheboygan

Originally posted by Novusod
What I heard back when NCsoft shut down Paragon studios was that CoH was actually making money. The thing is they wanted to shut it down so they could pump more resources into GW2 which is under performing. GW2 has done ok from a gamer cummunity perspective but has not yet recooped the development costs. So yeah this is all about GW2.

"What I heard......"

well, there you go go folks - we now have the facts

Actually, the Korean Times article on the issue also says CoH was profitable.

The Sims online earned some small amount of money as well, and so did Tabula Rasa. Larger companies (beside SOE) rarely keep games like that floating.

Closing down the studio to transfer resources to another game only make sense if the other game earns more money, otherwise you earn more just leaving it as it is.

CoH did earn in some small amount of cash but not enough to run it.

As for GW2, if NC soft thought they could get in the development cost of a AAA MMO in 3 months after launch they must have been high, even Wow didnt do that and it was P2P. They really need the first expansion to start earning money.

But they have sold over 2.2 million copies of GW2 (how much is unknown but it is less than 3M) so they should have gotten in $60M or so + whatever they sold in the itemshop. Say $5M in the itemshop.

Development cost is supposed to be around $80M (no official numbers though) so I have no doubt they will get in the cost and more later but 3 months just aint realistic and I doubt NC soft were that stupid.

And even if they were that stupid CoHs skeleton crews money would mean close to nothing, if they would earn money it would even be nothing and putting their small earnings while keeping the game running would have been smarter if that was what this is about.

AION on the other hand went F2P this summer and they had huge expectations about that game a while back. If you want to blame anyone, that is far more likely than either GW2 or CoH.

Isn't NCSoft 'simply' the publisher of GW2? As far as I've seen from videos and interviews, the game is developed entirely by ArenaNet in their own offices.

Given the evidence that I can see with my own eyes, there's nothing that says GW2 is underperforming.

Originally posted by Terranah

Well, I'd be surprised if GW2 fails anytime soon.  It's a good game for $50.  But then again, I have not bought a single thing off of their store.  Nothing interests me.  What would interest me?  How about purchasing functionality.  Examples...

 

1) Housing

2) More armor skins

3) Sell appearance tabs

4) Sell the ability to change your character appearance.  The current system is bla.  I suggest it would be an optional functionality you could add to your house.  A mirror in your bedroom that would allow you to change your appearance any time.  Charge $15, only good for the character you purchase it for.

5) The ability to send items coins to other toons.

6)  The ability for level 80 characters to transfer experience to alts.

7) Hair packs. 

8) Face Packs

9) Emote packs.

 

Bla bla bla.  These are just a few ideas.  Charge $15 for each one.  Housing opens the door to a lot of things, like furniture, decorations.  Honestly, I have more creative ideas in my toe nails than their entire store team. 

Wow those are some pretty creative toe nails you have there.

Originally posted by korvass

Isn't NCSoft 'simply' the publisher of GW2? As far as I've seen from videos and interviews, the game is developed entirely by ArenaNet in their own offices.

Given the evidence that I can see with my own eyes, there's nothing that says GW2 is underperforming.

NCsoft is the owner and publisher of GW2. NCsoft west is Areanet. NCwest is the office to be "realigned."

Originally posted by korvass

Isn't NCSoft 'simply' the publisher of GW2? As far as I've seen from videos and interviews, the game is developed entirely by ArenaNet in their own offices.

Given the evidence that I can see with my own eyes, there's nothing that says GW2 is underperforming.

No, Anet is owned completely by NCsoft, same way Bioware today is owned completely by EA.

ANET is owned by Ncsoft

but worth noting that ANETs office is located in Bellevue - not Seattle

If you look at their past history, NCSoft is good at shutting down games here in the west. They have shut down around 6 so far and at lest three IMO did not need shutting down.

They did it because the wanted to, not because they had to. They did it because they don't care about their western customers.

NCSoft is dead to me.

Soon they will be dead to everyone else.

Then they will be just dead.

Originally posted by clumsytoes44
Somehow this really does not surprise me.

^

QFT

GW2 is not performing too well with - well, zero monthly subs.

And the cost for ads must have been horrendous.

How does that work with A.net and Carbine Studios? Are they Subsidiary of NcSoft?

Originally posted by korvass

Isn't NCSoft 'simply' the publisher of GW2? As far as I've seen from videos and interviews, the game is developed entirely by ArenaNet in their own offices.

Given the evidence that I can see with my own eyes, there's nothing that says GW2 is underperforming.

Stop using facts on this site!  Can't you see that GW2 is failing because some people want to believe it's failing?  Besides, everyone knows it's a superficial game with no endgame and an endless gear stats grind.  It's the lamest game ever and NCSoft's restructuring is just proof of that.  You know, because GW2 is the only game NCSoft is involved with.....

Originally posted by Terranah

Well, I'd be surprised if GW2 fails anytime soon.  It's a good game for $50.  But then again, I have not bought a single thing off of their store.  Nothing interests me.  What would interest me?  How about purchasing functionality.  Examples...

 

1) Housing

2) More armor skins

3) Sell appearance tabs

4) Sell the ability to change your character appearance.  The current system is bla.  I suggest it would be an optional functionality you could add to your house.  A mirror in your bedroom that would allow you to change your appearance any time.  Charge $15, only good for the character you purchase it for.

5) The ability to send items coins to other toons.

6)  The ability for level 80 characters to transfer experience to alts.

7) Hair packs. 

8) Face Packs

9) Emote packs.

 

Bla bla bla.  These are just a few ideas.  Charge $15 for each one.  Housing opens the door to a lot of things, like furniture, decorations.  Honestly, I have more creative ideas in my toe nails than their entire store team. 

You might want to take a look here then ;o https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/makeovers-and-more-in-the-gem-store-now/

Originally posted by thetimes

Originally posted by korvass

Isn't NCSoft 'simply' the publisher of GW2? As far as I've seen from videos and interviews, the game is developed entirely by ArenaNet in their own offices.

Given the evidence that I can see with my own eyes, there's nothing that says GW2 is underperforming.

NCsoft is the owner and publisher of GW2. NCsoft west is Areanet. NCwest is the office to be "realigned."

While NCSoft owns ArenaNet, NCWest is not ArenaNet, though ArenaNet may be a part of NCWest; I'm not sure about that.  ArenaNet's offices are located in Bellevue, NCWest is in Seattle.  Two totally different cities.

Since GW2 is one of NCSoft's biggest money makers, I doubt there will be much "realignment" when it comes to ArenaNet.  This is more likely trimming the fat after shutting down CoH and selling Aion.

Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by clumsytoes44
Somehow this really does not surprise me.

^

QFT

GW2 is not performing too well with - well, zero monthly subs.

And the cost for ads must have been horrendous.

Where is the data that GW2 is not performing well or is it your own bias? So far, GW2 looks like it is doing fine. Also, A.Net is the devloper and NCSoft is the publisher - 2 different things. Aion is developed and published by NCSoft - there is your difference.

So you are saying that if they had a monthly sub for GW2, NCSoft would be doing well? A very niave and narrow opinion - GW1 is still going and it has no sub.

Thank god, it was a long time overdue to realignment those offices, i cant say one good thing about ncwest and im truly glad ncsoft have cut that cord.

Originally posted by Dragim

I don't see how GW2 is underperforming.

Granted, I haven't been playing it lately because of planetside 2, but that aside, the events (holiday or no) generate so much cash.

In my guild, there were people dropping hundreds of dollars on the cash shop in order to try to get one of the rare "item graphics" for their weapons.  --I wouldn't do it, but to each their own.

They have had at least 2 events now with special skins and players have dropped enormous amounts of money attempting to get them.

Granted, these 6+ guildies could be the only ones doing so, but I have a sneaky suspicion that many others do as well.

I just don't see how GW2 is under-performing, but perhaps I am just missing something, which very well may be.

Guild Wars 2 is the hottest selling game for the Holidays according to various friends of mine that work in retail.  They can't keep the game, nor the gem cards in stock.  Blade N Soul is also doing really well, and it's only been released in very limited locations at the moment.  The recent interview with Colin actually matched with this claim (even if it was mainly just a normal marketing gig, it's still the only plausible evidence we have with regards to ANet), and we still have Wintersday, plus the events scheduled in January and Feb.   I'd say that the least amount of gems bought by friends of mine is about $20 worth (with some even going over 100, and one bragging he spent $500); we're talking at least 100 people who claimed to have bought stuff from the nearly full guilds I'm in (or friends from other MMOs who casually play it like myself).  

Though as a whole, people who like things want to prove it's great, and those who hate it want it destroyed.  I'm not sure why one would want something someone else enjoys to downhill, but I guess it's just gamer's nature to want to cause pain to others and revel in it.

NCsoft used to be one of the biggest MMO companies in the world, but have been losing a lot of their thunder.  It's only natural that they downsize a bit now that they're second, or even third in the line, and just focus on their big money makers in the future:  Guild Wars 2, Blade N Soul, and Wildstar.

Edit: Typo