Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Fearum
Im gonna give it a shot, df 1 was a turd, I hope they polished up enough this time. Yeah its more like mortal combat/streetfighter than a rpg.

If you thought DF was a turd, then DF:UW is just a turd with glitter on it.

The core gameplay hasn't changed.

The core gameplay is what was redesigned...

Not really, they have limited character power to archtypes / classes (kind of like how TSW achieves it) and improved the UI. Everything else is pretty much the same.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Badaboom
In terms of crappy design decisions that I think have hurt the genre, instancing is right up there. Followed by global banking, world chat, instant travel and auction houses. 

Rewarding mediocrity, destruction of community, destruction of roleplay ride the top of my list.  Most of the stuff you mentioned isn't even on the radar.

I know it isn't and its sad. I feel that the points I mentioned are the root of the cause of the effects that you mentioned. 

More like I view your list as rote repetition, the official Party Line of the Sandpark Party. :shrug:  It's clear that most people who "hate instancing" aren't even terribly clear on why they should hate it; they just know that they're supposed to.  The reactionary element doesn't help either.   "Open world 1999 RAWR!" 

Instances are just bad, mmkay, the DF devs told me so!

Since we're in the DF forum...well...obviously most of the reflex RAWRs come from folks who support DF's choices.  Is that surprising?  If you trot over to WoW's forums, most discussions of game design tend to agree with Blizzard.  (That may be the home of the Classic Themepark Party.)

But if you toss ideology aside, it's just one possible game design, not possible to feel hatred for it.  The ideology just comes from fanboys--the same guys that float from game to game trying to make all new titles Just Like WoW...except they're wearing DF t-shirts (or UO or EVE t-shirts) over here.

I dislike instancing. It's for people who need some guranteed reward. They are instantly transported to their own little world where everything is handed to them. They could not imagine a dungeon so hard that you have to have multiple, unaffiliated, parties in it for anyone to survive in it. They can't imagine an area so difficult that you have to sneak by everything in it because no matter of good your party is you stand no chance. When a party enters an instance they do so just to collect their rewards so that they can get a piece of gear, which will be replaced by  an instance released at a future date, or to bring their loot back to the MMOWE (MMO World Economy), which is the only thing massive about their game. They can't stand anything that is left to luck or that everyone doesn't have equal access too. In an MMO without instances then some people will get lucky and some will not. Not everyone will participate in the same events. It's a more heterogenous experience.

Originally posted by botrytis

People are also missing the idea, that an instance dungeon, is all for YOUR group. Not for others but for your group. All the drops, all the mobs, all the bosses. That is why in GW2, they instanced the dungeons. Wouldn't you hate going into an open dungeon hoping to get a drop from a particular boss and the boss is dead already and the spawn rate is slow - so your group has to camp there and wait.

 

This is NOT the only way open worlds work. A mob could spawn only when a certain item is collected by each member who wants to fight the mob. It may take each member of the group a week to collect this item. That's just one way it could work. There are so many other ways.

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by Fearum
Im gonna give it a shot, df 1 was a turd, I hope they polished up enough this time. Yeah its more like mortal combat/streetfighter than a rpg.

If you thought DF was a turd, then DF:UW is just a turd with glitter on it.

The core gameplay hasn't changed.

The core gameplay is what was redesigned...

Not really, they have limited character power to archtypes / classes (kind of like how TSW achieves it) and improved the UI. Everything else is pretty much the same.

If you say so, but all pre release information says that you are almost entirely wrong.

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by botrytis

People are also missing the idea, that an instance dungeon, is all for YOUR group. Not for others but for your group. All the drops, all the mobs, all the bosses. That is why in GW2, they instanced the dungeons. Wouldn't you hate going into an open dungeon hoping to get a drop from a particular boss and the boss is dead already and the spawn rate is slow - so your group has to camp there and wait.

 

This is NOT the only way open worlds work. A mob could spawn only when a certain item is collected by each member who wants to fight the mob. It may take each member of the group a week to collect this item. That's just one way it could work. There are so many other ways.

EQ1 was pretty much just that, and there are only so many ways in which you can do it, when it gets down to it, its either anyone can loot the corpse or only those who did the most damage, or laid the final blow, or worse, the first blow. There is a very good reason why games that came after EQ1 had instanced dungeons, its because players complained about spawn camping and people interfering with specific bosses etc that they needed. Sure keep the Open World PVP, thats what DF is all about, but if there are going to be npc boss fights etc, dungeons, then instance them, or their a waste of time, because someone will almost always come along and interfere, which is not a good thing no matter how much spin you try to put on it.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by botrytis

People are also missing the idea, that an instance dungeon, is all for YOUR group. Not for others but for your group. All the drops, all the mobs, all the bosses. That is why in GW2, they instanced the dungeons. Wouldn't you hate going into an open dungeon hoping to get a drop from a particular boss and the boss is dead already and the spawn rate is slow - so your group has to camp there and wait.

 

This is NOT the only way open worlds work. A mob could spawn only when a certain item is collected by each member who wants to fight the mob. It may take each member of the group a week to collect this item. That's just one way it could work. There are so many other ways.

EQ1 was pretty much just that, and there are only so many ways in which you can do it, when it gets down to it, its either anyone can loot the corpse or only those who did the most damage, or laid the final blow, or worse, the first blow. There is a very good reason why games that came after EQ1 had instanced dungeons, its because players complained about spawn camping and people interfering with specific bosses etc that they needed. Sure keep the Open World PVP, thats what DF is all about, but if there are going to be npc boss fights etc, dungeons, then instance them, or their a waste of time, because someone will almost always come along and interfere, which is not a good thing no matter how much spin you try to put on it.

if they interfer kill them its simple

Originally posted by Redemp

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by ZigZags

Originally posted by zymurgeist
So no high resolution textures then?

I think most old school MMOers who have been playing MMOs for 15 + years and recognize the best days were years ago would sacrifice Hi Res textures for better game mechanics any day

....except the ones that just dropped 500 bones for a new GPU?  You're probably right, as a general rule.

But that cutting edge hardware watch me pose is awfully addictive, guys have been doing that much longer than PC or Mac. Stereos in the 70s, Cadillacs in the 50s...

 Yeah .. don't touch my graphics, I've grown accustom to my pretty mmo's. Realisticly we shouldn't have to sacrafice appearance for depth or quality. I don't think newer games are worse than the titles we cut our teeth on, we've just grown with the market and the first few will never be duplicated.

 

i wouldnt want to sacrifice appearance for quality either, sadly there is no quality in the other games that only offer appearance. so i have to chose between the two, and im chosing the latter.

How come a single minecraft server with blocky 80's graphics has more players online then most polished games listed here ?

Gameplay >.<

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by botrytis

People are also missing the idea, that an instance dungeon, is all for YOUR group. Not for others but for your group. All the drops, all the mobs, all the bosses. That is why in GW2, they instanced the dungeons. Wouldn't you hate going into an open dungeon hoping to get a drop from a particular boss and the boss is dead already and the spawn rate is slow - so your group has to camp there and wait.

 

This is NOT the only way open worlds work. A mob could spawn only when a certain item is collected by each member who wants to fight the mob. It may take each member of the group a week to collect this item. That's just one way it could work. There are so many other ways.

There is a very good reason why games that came after EQ1 had instanced dungeons

Yes, because most modern MMO devs are clueless code monkies that don't get to design their own games. Publishers design the games, and by design I mean, they instruct people to copy WoW. And WoW has instances, because THEIR designers copied EQ point for point, flaw for flaw, and instead of improving it, just slapped instances over the flawed game mechanics.

You people need to realize other MMOs existed before WoW than EQ. DAoC never had need of instances.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by botrytis

People are also missing the idea, that an instance dungeon, is all for YOUR group. Not for others but for your group. All the drops, all the mobs, all the bosses. That is why in GW2, they instanced the dungeons. Wouldn't you hate going into an open dungeon hoping to get a drop from a particular boss and the boss is dead already and the spawn rate is slow - so your group has to camp there and wait.

 

This is NOT the only way open worlds work. A mob could spawn only when a certain item is collected by each member who wants to fight the mob. It may take each member of the group a week to collect this item. That's just one way it could work. There are so many other ways.

There is a very good reason why games that came after EQ1 had instanced dungeons

Yes, because most modern MMO devs are clueless code monkies that don't get to design their own games. Publishers design the games, and by design I mean, they instruct people to copy WoW. And WoW has instances, because THEIR designers copied EQ point for point, flaw for flaw, and instead of improving it, just slapped instances over the flawed game mechanics.

You people need to realize other MMOs existed before WoW than EQ. DAoC never had need of instances.

Yes, because coding a mob on a 17 hour respawn timer that only drops 1 specific rare item, that certain guilds will permacamp and sell the looting rights is hard, thats why they dont do it.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by botrytis

People are also missing the idea, that an instance dungeon, is all for YOUR group. Not for others but for your group. All the drops, all the mobs, all the bosses. That is why in GW2, they instanced the dungeons. Wouldn't you hate going into an open dungeon hoping to get a drop from a particular boss and the boss is dead already and the spawn rate is slow - so your group has to camp there and wait.

 

This is NOT the only way open worlds work. A mob could spawn only when a certain item is collected by each member who wants to fight the mob. It may take each member of the group a week to collect this item. That's just one way it could work. There are so many other ways.

EQ1 was pretty much just that, and there are only so many ways in which you can do it, when it gets down to it, its either anyone can loot the corpse or only those who did the most damage, or laid the final blow, or worse, the first blow. There is a very good reason why games that came after EQ1 had instanced dungeons, its because players complained about spawn camping and people interfering with specific bosses etc that they needed. Sure keep the Open World PVP, thats what DF is all about, but if there are going to be npc boss fights etc, dungeons, then instance them, or their a waste of time, because someone will almost always come along and interfere, which is not a good thing no matter how much spin you try to put on it.

If every member of the group has the item to fight the monster than maybe every member of the group could spawn the monster once. That way everyone in the group gets the reward from the monster. Or the loot could be randomly distributed to the party.

Originally posted by xDayx

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by Schockey
That is goodstuff! My friend and I left one of the last big titles because the instancing was so inconvenient and the load screens took away so much from immersion.

To be honest, there are portals that get you inside the dungeon, but tecnically the dungeons are not instanced as everyone can get inside.

Let's say AV is right in the middle an instanced and a non instanced dungeon

Only seamless world is Vanguard  where dungeons are connected with the rest of the map with no portals

Vanguard is not the only seamless world. Mortal Online, Wurm, Xsyon, ATITD, are all seamless, there may be a few others as well.

MOrtal Online is hardly seamless.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by botrytis

People are also missing the idea, that an instance dungeon, is all for YOUR group. Not for others but for your group. All the drops, all the mobs, all the bosses. That is why in GW2, they instanced the dungeons. Wouldn't you hate going into an open dungeon hoping to get a drop from a particular boss and the boss is dead already and the spawn rate is slow - so your group has to camp there and wait.

 

This is NOT the only way open worlds work. A mob could spawn only when a certain item is collected by each member who wants to fight the mob. It may take each member of the group a week to collect this item. That's just one way it could work. There are so many other ways.

EQ1 was pretty much just that, and there are only so many ways in which you can do it, when it gets down to it, its either anyone can loot the corpse or only those who did the most damage, or laid the final blow, or worse, the first blow. There is a very good reason why games that came after EQ1 had instanced dungeons, its because players complained about spawn camping and people interfering with specific bosses etc that they needed. Sure keep the Open World PVP, thats what DF is all about, but if there are going to be npc boss fights etc, dungeons, then instance them, or their a waste of time, because someone will almost always come along and interfere, which is not a good thing no matter how much spin you try to put on it.

But Darkfall players WANT that interfence, that's what makes it exciting, knowing that there could be a group just waiting to ambush and it did happen often in DF1 with many of the high end beasts, that's why they aren't instanced, because that's content.

It would be competely out of place in Darkfall to have instanced dungeons where a group could farm in peace, it doesn't belong and will never be implemented.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by botrytis

EQ1 was pretty much just that, and there are only so many ways in which you can do it, when it gets down to it, its either anyone can loot the corpse or only those who did the most damage, or laid the final blow, or worse, the first blow. There is a very good reason why games that came after EQ1 had instanced dungeons, its because players complained about spawn camping and people interfering with specific bosses etc that they needed. Sure keep the Open World PVP, thats what DF is all about, but if there are going to be npc boss fights etc, dungeons, then instance them, or their a waste of time, because someone will almost always come along and interfere, which is not a good thing no matter how much spin you try to put on it.

People complained because they could do fk all about the people interfering with mob spawns. In an FFA pvp game that is clearly not the case.

"Not a good thing no matter how much spin you put on it". Some people like non instanced dungeons where other players can either be friend or foe. There is no need to put any spin on it at all, some people simply like that model and that is more than enough of a "good thing/reason" for a game like DF with it's open world, maximum player interaction ethos, to include it.

Originally posted by Kubalay

Tasos is indeed a god and savior for gamers. I been waiting for DF 2.0 since DF 1.0 was turned off. I love and always will love and support this game and company.

 

Full loot Pvp is the only type of MMO I can enjoy.

 

Signed,

King Kubalay of Kubalay.net

God of Agon and Slayer of Elitists.

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by Kubalay

Tasos is indeed a god and savior for gamers. I been waiting for DF 2.0 since DF 1.0 was turned off. I love and always will love and support this game and company.

 

Full loot Pvp is the only type of MMO I can enjoy.

 

Signed,

King Kubalay of Kubalay.net

God of Agon and Slayer of Elitists.

 

Really I think Age Of Wushu trumps Darkfall for features and everything else. The graphics and combat pawns Darkfall, FFA full PvP clan conquest and building, land owning and player bounty's, prison system, beheading, Kidnapping, all best items are player made. If you craft a blade you will need to find a carpenter to craft the hilt. Age Of Wushu has farming also no classes or levels. Check out the Age Of Wushu section on this site and the vids some of us have posted from the first western beta on the 15th November through to the 25th November. The next beta starts on the 20th December to the 9th of January. We will have updated dated content and fixes. Did I mention the offline features where you actually stay on in the world as an npc manning you stall or doing chores for you faction. This has it's risks because you can be kidnaped by PKs but they will have a bounty on them. If they build up to much crime points they can be sent to prison for up to 24 hours or have a public execution which also effects them for 24 hours. You can have your faction buy you out of prison or you can try and escape. If you do escape from the prison you are reset.

Its TAB targeting game ? 1,2,3,4 combo like gw2 ?

Originally posted by Dzikuni

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by Kubalay

Tasos is indeed a god and savior for gamers. I been waiting for DF 2.0 since DF 1.0 was turned off. I love and always will love and support this game and company.

 

Full loot Pvp is the only type of MMO I can enjoy.

 

Signed,

King Kubalay of Kubalay.net

God of Agon and Slayer of Elitists.

 

Really I think Age Of Wushu trumps Darkfall for features and everything else. The graphics and combat pawns Darkfall, FFA full PvP clan conquest and building, land owning and player bounty's, prison system, beheading, Kidnapping, all best items are player made. If you craft a blade you will need to find a carpenter to craft the hilt. Age Of Wushu has farming also no classes or levels. Check out the Age Of Wushu section on this site and the vids some of us have posted from the first western beta on the 15th November through to the 25th November. The next beta starts on the 20th December to the 9th of January. We will have updated dated content and fixes. Did I mention the offline features where you actually stay on in the world as an npc manning you stall or doing chores for you faction. This has it's risks because you can be kidnaped by PKs but they will have a bounty on them. If they build up to much crime points they can be sent to prison for up to 24 hours or have a public execution which also effects them for 24 hours. You can have your faction buy you out of prison or you can try and escape. If you do escape from the prison you are reset.

Its TAB targeting game ? 1,2,3,4 combo like gw2 ?

It is and very, very asian.