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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The perfect raid size? (Pve discussion)

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52 posts found
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

12/04/12 5:23:30 PM#41
Originally posted by Robokapp

perfect raid size: MASSIVE.

 

If Eve can have 500 players shooting a POS, another MMo can have 500 players shooting a dragon.

"can" != "should".

Is 500 players shooting at a dragon more fun than 5? I play a much more crucial and heroic role if there are 5, instead of 500.

  User Deleted
12/04/12 5:34:36 PM#42
Originally posted by Robokapp

perfect raid size: MASSIVE.

 

If Eve can have 500 players shooting a POS, another MMo can have 500 players shooting a dragon.

Eve has 500 ships with no real animation to them, and no real animation to the environment... which is just a pretty backdrop.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4700

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/04/12 9:03:50 PM#43
Originally posted by asmkm22
Originally posted by Robokapp

perfect raid size: MASSIVE.

 

If Eve can have 500 players shooting a POS, another MMo can have 500 players shooting a dragon.

Eve has 500 ships with no real animation to them, and no real animation to the environment... which is just a pretty backdrop.

I'll survive without animations...somehow.

 

while zoomed all the way out and staring at his addons, it's not like a wow player admires the beauty of a fireball following its path either.

 

and "is 500 more fun than 5" ? yeah...absolutely. unless they're trying to steal your epix, is that the real issue? confess your sins.

  centkin

Elite Member

Joined: 10/01/10
Posts: 816

12/04/12 9:47:48 PM#44
If you are going to have raids it is best to have them really really big.  Have the division between group and raid content be as stark as possible in that manner.  I think everquest 1 did it fine with their 72 person raids.  Something like Coirnav or the earth raid were very different from each other and they both wanted full groups to succeed in their day.  The other good thing about having really big raids is that the content doesnt have to completely go away.  Nobody is going to do a 10 or 20 person raid of old content. 
  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/04/12 10:13:38 PM#45
Originally posted by centkin
If you are going to have raids it is best to have them really really big. 

Besides, the bigger the raid  is, the easier to disappear in the crowd and just autofire while waiting for your epix.

Plus, it's good for player distribution.  We know the natural player distribution favors 2 tanks, 4 healers, and 96 DPS anyway.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  azzamasin

Elite Member

Joined: 6/06/12
Posts: 2773

We live in a fantasy world, a world of illusion. The great task in life is to find reality.

12/04/12 10:29:47 PM#46

5

 

The reason why: Raiding begats elitism and elitism begats destroyed communities. 

 

The last time I looked I never played an RPG of any type whether it be AD&D pen and paper to console RPG's like Kingdom Hearts or Shining in the Darkness (my all time favorite RPG BTW) Nor have I ever read a Fantasy book based on anything you would consider "raiding".  From controlling a small group in a single player RPG, to reading Tolkien's masterpiece Lord of The Rings, all action is placed on either a small group or on 1 person.  This is why I play "Role-Playing-Games"  Not because I am part of a role, but because I am playing a Role in a setting.  Large Scale Raiding just doesnt carry any immersive weight to being a good element to a game. 

 

Any Raid element will and can carry over to a small group size more fluid and more imemrsive then just being part of a large gathering of un-interesting people.  Don't even get me started on the organization required to "Raid".  Anytime I have to devote a specific time and place to be online is not something I call entertaining.  If you want to make "raiding" better, then you need to remove the organization required.  I play video games based on my time not on the collective timne of "xx" other members of a "raid".

If your idea of a Sandbox is open FFA Full Loot PvP, full crafted world with minimal support for anything combat then your sandbox ideas are bad! Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4700

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/05/12 12:24:57 AM#47
I think smaller raid sizes are more likely to cause elitism since you become self-sufficient quicker and don't need to diplomatically reach out towards others.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

12/05/12 2:57:23 AM#48
Originally posted by Robokapp

perfect raid size: MASSIVE.

 

If Eve can have 500 players shooting a POS, another MMo can have 500 players shooting a dragon.

Yes because rendering a world filled with detailed animated characters and particle effects is no more difficult than open space with rigid spacecraft and some particle effects.

There are pretty obvious reasons why 500 people cannot be rendered as easily as 500 spacecraft.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

12/05/12 2:58:17 AM#49
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by centkin
If you are going to have raids it is best to have them really really big. 

Besides, the bigger the raid  is, the easier to disappear in the crowd and just autofire while waiting for your epix.

Plus, it's good for player distribution.  We know the natural player distribution favors 2 tanks, 4 healers, and 96 DPS anyway.

Oh come on Ice - it's 92 dps - get your facts right...!

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3376

12/05/12 5:08:09 AM#50
IMO.. the reasons why raid sizes have to be so small, is because of the graphics..  That has been the crux of all MMO's..  I feel with 90% certainty that if devs would stop making combat so "artisticly" seductive, combat could and should be much larger.. Devs have turned combat into the primary focus of eye candy, which only puts more stress on graphics cards..  Nerf the graphics please and make gameplay more enjoyable :) 
  Falconium

Novice Member

Joined: 5/31/12
Posts: 20

12/05/12 11:11:17 PM#51

I voted 16, although I like anything between 15 and 20 for my large group content. Open word PvE events are fine, but at best those are just button mashing because there's no way to coordinate random people you met a minute ago who might not even speak the same language. I feel that between 15-20 you get the sense that there is a big group needed to take down whatever, but it isn't crammed to the brim with players and either the raid is complicated and it's chaos (fun, but frusturating) or it's easy and the extra time spent grouping wasn't necessary.

 

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19928

12/07/12 3:25:56 PM#52
Originally posted by Rydeson
IMO.. the reasons why raid sizes have to be so small, is because of the graphics..  That has been the crux of all MMO's..  I feel with 90% certainty that if devs would stop making combat so "artisticly" seductive, combat could and should be much larger.. Devs have turned combat into the primary focus of eye candy, which only puts more stress on graphics cards..  Nerf the graphics please and make gameplay more enjoyable :) 

More people != more enjoyable gameplay.

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