Trending Games | ArcheAge | Neverwinter | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | Firefall

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,823,439 Users Online:0
Games:731  Posts:6,217,270
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Puzzle Pirates Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » The amount of people who settle for Instanced PvP Trash simply amazes me.

23 Pages First « 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 » Last Search
447 posts found
  Maroxad

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/12
Posts: 27

12/04/12 7:32:34 AM#361

I think the reason mmos are moving more to instanced PvP "trash" is because it simply put works better than WPvP for a lot of games.

There are no right and wrong features to add to a game, and no glove fits all. Some mmos benefit from a more structured PvP experience, others suffer for it. It really dephends on what works best with the rest of the game. Design is law, and nothing mixes and matches all that well with everything and what may work for EVE Online might end up detracting from the experience in a game like Guild Wars 2.

  nerrollus

Novice Member

Joined: 5/28/03
Posts: 219

12/04/12 7:35:13 AM#362


Originally posted by mmoDAD
When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

 

Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that isn't completely structured  is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

 

Servers should go like this:

Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

 

I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.



Personally I like it that way. Not settled, I like it.

  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 7171

12/04/12 7:49:07 AM#363
I always thought it was the dumbest most immersion breaking thing to be standing next to an enemy and not be able to attack.

When I eat chocolate chip pie it just doesn't feel like chocolate chip cookies. The texture, the consistency, it's just not the same and this is disappointing.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10535

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/04/12 8:11:37 AM#364


Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by ShakyMo Players didn't settle for instanced pvp It's just in 90% of post wow mmos its the only pvp available. If players had decided instanced pvp was the best. There would be more players in spvp than in WvW in gw2 and planetside 2 wouldn't be the huge success it is. It took developers 8 years, but finally they realised there's a market for players that don't want the tacked on afterthought trash that is wow style pvp.
Except WoW has OWPvP servers. Players are forced into PvE servers...they are choosing to play those servers. Same for Rift...OWPvP servers are available, most people pick the PvE servers.  
Thats probably because its very obvious the game is NOT designed for OWPVP.



If open world pvp doesn't improve any game it's added to, then open world pvp isn't inherently better than other forms of pvp. That doesn't mean it's worse either. It just isn't automagically better.

We don't even have to look at WoW. Look at Eve. The majority of players are in the relatively safe space. PvP isn't impossible, but it's avoidable and insurance offsets any real losses from getting killed. In a game that is all about free for all, open world pvp, most people have chosen to use the mechanic in the game that allow them to have some measure of control over when and where they engage in PvP and to mitigate any losses suffered from losing in PvP.

I'm not sure why anyone would believe that open world PvP or free for all PvP has some inherent advantage over other forms of PvP. It's not any better or any worse than other forms of PvP. The difference is that more players prefer to have control over when and where they engage in PvP rather than having other players make that decision.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  User Deleted
12/04/12 8:18:57 AM#365
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
 

 

Then it is a problem for that "some" people .. not me, and many that play MMOs like a lobby game.

In fact, how is harassment possible in a open world pve game, except kill stealing? And as long as you tag the mob fast enough, no one can touch it?

There are a multitude of ways to harrass/disrupt someone in an open world pve game and many ways of continuing that after they have "stuck you on ignore dude". These range from mechanical/game world impacting strategies (lock downs, taps, trains) through group/event/rp/guild disruption, to direct personal attacks across a variety of mediums.

 

There will no doubt be countless other methods I am unaware of given that I don't spend my time thinking how to grief the crap out of other players.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10535

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/04/12 8:26:30 AM#366


Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper  

 
Then it is a problem for that "some" people .. not me, and many that play MMOs like a lobby game. In fact, how is harassment possible in a open world pve game, except kill stealing? And as long as you tag the mob fast enough, no one can touch it?
There are a multitude of ways to harrass/disrupt someone in an open world pve game and many ways of continuing that after they have "stuck you on ignore dude". These range from mechanical/game world impacting strategies (lock downs, taps, trains) through group/event/rp/guild disruption, to direct personal attacks across a variety of mediums.

 

There will no doubt be countless other methods I am unaware of given that I don't spend my time thinking how to grief the crap out of other players.




It is entirely possible to grief people in PvE games, especially if there is a flagging system in place. The difference is that the same behavior on an OWPvP server or a PvP based game is acceptable behavior, while in the PvE server/game it's not acceptable behavior. I think that's what people are using the term "Griefing" for. Things that are not acceptable on a PvE server.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  User Deleted
12/04/12 8:41:10 AM#367
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper  

 





It is entirely possible to grief people in PvE games, especially if there is a flagging system in place. The difference is that the same behavior on an OWPvP server or a PvP based game is acceptable behavior, while in the PvE server/game it's not acceptable behavior. I think that's what people are using the term "Griefing" for. Things that are not acceptable on a PvE server.

 

Smashing someone in the face in general would probably be pretty unacceptable to most, but I don't run around the houses screaming bloody murder and then ring the police every time I watch a boxing match. Just as I don't think "omg that guy is harrassing me, what a sociopathic fker!" when I get ganked in a pvp game.

  User Deleted
12/04/12 9:11:20 AM#368
Originally posted by Volkon

PvP, to me, should be something I engage in when I choose to do so, not when someone else chooses to do so. I don't care if this elicits cries of "carebear" or whatever. I'm not playing these games for someone elses entertainment, I'm playing it for my own. As such, a system like Guild Wars 2, which fully segregates the PvP from the PvE, works ideally for me. If I feel like kicking back and running events, farming materials, doing dungeons, exploring, etc. I can do so at my leisure without worrying about someone who's over-compensating for a depressing real life trying to gank me in game in order to give himself the illusion of being significant. If I want to PvP, I can do so in a balanced arena style setting (sPvP) or in a more chaotic setting (WvW), which is where I actually spend most of my time. I don't dislike PvP at all... I've over 5000 kills in WvW so far and have a blast there. But it's mutually agreed to death and destruction. I'm there by choice. The person/group/zerg I'm clashing with is/are also there by choice. 

 

This whole thought that there should be "penalties" for dying in PvP... completely stupid. Oh, but it makes it mean something! Horsecrap. You're pixels beat up his pixels. Pull the plug on the server and it's like you never existed in game anyhow, so giving some basement dweller the power to punish someone against their will else who's simply playing to have fun... ridiculous, and people should be embarassed for encouraging that. Seriously, what the heck is wrong with these people? You take pride in ruining someone elses fun? Really? Grats, you're an eBully, but only until you step away from the computer. 

 

PvP should be consentual. It shouldn't be designed to "punish" people to the extent their fun is demolished, there no need nor sense in that. It should be fun. Win, lose or draw, both parties should still be able to hop right back into the action without the childishness of corpse-camping or the fear that some clown can now take your gear or weapons that you put who knows how much time and effort into acquiring. It should give you the option of being in a small and controlled environment or chaotic and massive one. The amount of people that would settle for open world gank feasting simply amazes me.

 First off your opinion is fine as it is your opinion on the matter, but trying to say that what others find entertaining or fun, and which gives their game more meaning is somehow wrong is well shallow, and also very telling that you are a extremely closed minded person. I play both Open world, open world FFA, Instance, and perma-death pvp styles alongside many of the pve styles i also play. Having your actions weither it be attacking a mob that is stronger than you, pvping against someone in the  open world, or just taking a risk, and knowing that you could lose hours or progression does appeal an give more meeaning/impact to the way you play. Also when it comes down to it if you play on a game or server that is created an marketed for being a open pvp and open world playstyle, you are accepting that you will have to deal with being attacked or killed at any moment in that game setting, and that does make the pvp in that setting completely consentual as you both knew you would be attack/ganked in that game at some point.  There is a reason you would have a choice of pvp, and pve geared server, and content, which is that certain styles of play are not for everyone's taste, just as not all food is going to be liked by everyone in the world.

 

It amazes me more that so many on both sides of the debate are so closed minded, and arrogant as to think that one methoid, and style of fun is correct an right, while the other is wrong an evil, since fun an enjoyment of an activity is subjective to what each person enjoys, and finds engaging to do for fun. It is jsut like two religous groups argueing over which one iss right, and good, and whcih is evil an corrupt since in the end both are not going to say they are the evil/corrupt ones. Just move on respect that you have differing opinion, and tastes in things, and have fun doing what you enjoy allowing the other to do so as well. All forms of entertainment should be supported in some fashion weither be in a features of a game, certain niche games, or what other options might arise. In the end you have a choice to play a game or not based on what it offers, and so if you play a game with somethign that does not suit your form of fun than you made the choice to lose youur enjoyment at the moment you started playing.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10535

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

12/04/12 9:17:42 AM#369


Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper  

 


It is entirely possible to grief people in PvE games, especially if there is a flagging system in place. The difference is that the same behavior on an OWPvP server or a PvP based game is acceptable behavior, while in the PvE server/game it's not acceptable behavior. I think that's what people are using the term "Griefing" for. Things that are not acceptable on a PvE server.  
Smashing someone in the face in general would probably be pretty unacceptable to most, but I don't run around the houses screaming bloody murder and then ring the police every time I watch a boxing match. Just as I don't think "omg that guy is harrassing me, what a sociopathic fker!" when I get ganked in a pvp game.


It's only a major problem if the people are actually logging into the PvP servers or the PvP games. If they consider the behavior that happens on a PvP server or PvP game to be griefing, and then they don't login, then the system is working as expected. People are exercising their ability to choose.

There are lots of actual issues though. There's a gap between how games are advertised and how the experience actually is. This isn't just an issue with PvP either, but it's part of the problem. Games like SWToR with little or no open world PvP advertising the struggle with another faction, when it's a miniscule part of the game. Games like Darkfall looking like WoW with hard PvE content. The wrong players end up in the wrong games and it doesn't take many of them for raise a stink.

Of course, there are players who should know better ending up in the wrong games too. You can't really tell the difference between a new player who got killed in Darkfall, thinking there would be some sort of 'honorable' combat, and the person who's played WoW for a year or more complaining about the meaninglessness of the OWPvP. Not on forums anyway.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7133

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

12/04/12 9:22:34 AM#370
Originally posted by mmoDAD

When did players start to accept the fact that it's okay for PvP to be completely instanced?

EverQuest II's 2006 Nagafen Server was a World PvP Server. It worked.

SWG's PvP was World PvP. It worked.

 

Ever since WoW, PvP has become pure trash. And to make matters worse, "World PvP" has become such a loose term that anything that isn't completely structured  is considered World PvP, e.g., SWTOR's Ilum - a dedicated area for PvP. This isn't World PvP. It's trash.

 

Servers should go like this:

Server #1 PvE (Optional Battlegrounds)

Server #2 PvP (World PvP)

 

I'll tell you why people waste time in these redundant battlegrounds. It's because they are so helpless and consumed with the damn carrot dangling in front of their faces. You want that little piece of reward that everyone will eventually have. It's boring. It's an embarrassment to the genre.

I don't want to see anyone fail. However, it would be a lie to not say I enjoy watching these Instanced PvP games turn into failed FTP games.

 

I like my PvP optional, if at all, as does the majority of the market it seems. You don't, and that's fine, but your ability to be 'amazed' by people not liking what you like is entertaining.

Do you enjoy watching the 'failed' open world PvP games (such as Aion and the like) fo F2P as well? Just out of interest I mean...

  LhynnSaint

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 122

12/04/12 9:34:26 AM#371

Best pvp hands downs is in age of wushu/wulin, everything else doesnt even beging to compare.

But it is true that the mmo market is full of casual gamers and pve hardcore gamers, so its good when theres a game for each kind of gamer, would be awful if you had a title that wanted to please everybody.

  User Deleted
12/04/12 9:36:13 AM#372
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by lizardbones  

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by bunnyhopper  

 







It's only a major problem if the people are actually logging into the PvP servers or the PvP games. If they consider the behavior that happens on a PvP server or PvP game to be griefing, and then they don't login, then the system is working as expected. People are exercising their ability to choose.

There are lots of actual issues though. There's a gap between how games are advertised and how the experience actually is. This isn't just an issue with PvP either, but it's part of the problem. Games like SWToR with little or no open world PvP advertising the struggle with another faction, when it's a miniscule part of the game. Games like Darkfall looking like WoW with hard PvE content. The wrong players end up in the wrong games and it doesn't take many of them for raise a stink.

Of course, there are players who should know better ending up in the wrong games too. You can't really tell the difference between a new player who got killed in Darkfall, thinking there would be some sort of 'honorable' combat, and the person who's played WoW for a year or more complaining about the meaninglessness of the OWPvP. Not on forums anyway.

 

I agree to an extent with most of that. But in all honesty games like EVE and Darkfall seem to go out of their way to point out the fact that they are "ruthless" and a casual glance at the forums of said games will further enforce that.

 

Moreover, quite often on these forums we have people who don't even bother playing said games, before blurting out "it's wall to wall griefing!!!".

  Athcear

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/19/09
Posts: 422

Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by malice.

12/04/12 9:40:14 AM#373

World PvP is boring.  It's dull and uninteresting.  Even when it's not simply one player attacking and ganking another who is trying to do something else, it's just a mindless deathmatch.  It's fighting for no actual purpose besides fighting.  Yeah, some people enjoy stalking and getting the drop on other players, and sometimes it's fun to be on your guard, but most of the time, world PvP is only fun for the ganker.  It very seldom turns into those big TM v Southshore battles that everyone remembers so fondly.  Most of the time, it's some jerk getting his jollies by getting in someone else's way.

Instanced PvP, meanwhile, usually has a purpose.  I love the battleground system.  I like my fighting to have some kind of purpose beyond just killing.  Capture the flag or territory control battles... so much more fun than simple deathmatches.  The added layers of complexity and teamwork shred the superficial tactics of a small group or solo battle.

Not to say that a game based around open PvP can't be great.  But when you jam into a mold where it doesn't really fit, everything, including the PvP, suffers.  World PvP is a really striking example where trying to shove different game styles into a single game really doesn't work.

Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/04/12 9:42:04 AM#374
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Volkon

PvP, to me, should be something I engage in when I choose to do so, not when someone else chooses to do so. I don't care if this elicits cries of "carebear" or whatever. I'm not playing these games for someone elses entertainment, I'm playing it for my own. As such, a system like Guild Wars 2, which fully segregates the PvP from the PvE, works ideally for me. If I feel like kicking back and running events, farming materials, doing dungeons, exploring, etc. I can do so at my leisure without worrying about someone who's over-compensating for a depressing real life trying to gank me in game in order to give himself the illusion of being significant. If I want to PvP, I can do so in a balanced arena style setting (sPvP) or in a more chaotic setting (WvW), which is where I actually spend most of my time. I don't dislike PvP at all... I've over 5000 kills in WvW so far and have a blast there. But it's mutually agreed to death and destruction. I'm there by choice. The person/group/zerg I'm clashing with is/are also there by choice. 

 

This whole thought that there should be "penalties" for dying in PvP... completely stupid. Oh, but it makes it mean something! Horsecrap. You're pixels beat up his pixels. Pull the plug on the server and it's like you never existed in game anyhow, so giving some basement dweller the power to punish someone against their will else who's simply playing to have fun... ridiculous, and people should be embarassed for encouraging that. Seriously, what the heck is wrong with these people? You take pride in ruining someone elses fun? Really? Grats, you're an eBully, but only until you step away from the computer. 

 

PvP should be consentual. It shouldn't be designed to "punish" people to the extent their fun is demolished, there no need nor sense in that. It should be fun. Win, lose or draw, both parties should still be able to hop right back into the action without the childishness of corpse-camping or the fear that some clown can now take your gear or weapons that you put who knows how much time and effort into acquiring. It should give you the option of being in a small and controlled environment or chaotic and massive one. The amount of people that would settle for open world gank feasting simply amazes me.

 First off your opinion is fine as it is your opinion on the matter, but trying to say that what others find entertaining or fun, and which gives their game more meaning is somehow wrong is well shallow, and also very telling that you are a extremely closed minded person. I play both Open world, open world FFA, Instance, and perma-death pvp styles alongside many of the pve styles i also play. Having your actions weither it be attacking a mob that is stronger than you, pvping against someone in the  open world, or just taking a risk, and knowing that you could lose hours or progression does appeal an give more meeaning/impact to the way you play. Also when it comes down to it if you play on a game or server that is created an marketed for being a open pvp and open world playstyle, you are accepting that you will have to deal with being attacked or killed at any moment in that game setting, and that does make the pvp in that setting completely consentual as you both knew you would be attack/ganked in that game at some point.  There is a reason you would have a choice of pvp, and pve geared server, and content, which is that certain styles of play are not for everyone's taste, just as not all food is going to be liked by everyone in the world.

 

It amazes me more that so many on both sides of the debate are so closed minded, and arrogant as to think that one methoid, and style of fun is correct an right, while the other is wrong an evil, since fun an enjoyment of an activity is subjective to what each person enjoys, and finds engaging to do for fun. It is jsut like two religous groups argueing over which one iss right, and good, and whcih is evil an corrupt since in the end both are not going to say they are the evil/corrupt ones. Just move on respect that you have differing opinion, and tastes in things, and have fun doing what you enjoy allowing the other to do so as well. All forms of entertainment should be supported in some fashion weither be in a features of a game, certain niche games, or what other options might arise. In the end you have a choice to play a game or not based on what it offers, and so if you play a game with somethign that does not suit your form of fun than you made the choice to lose youur enjoyment at the moment you started playing.

Note the first three words... "PvP, to me". The entirety of it is my personal opinion on the matter, nothing more. Now, on the flip side, I played EvE online for quite some time and enjoyed the hell out of wormhole living. 

 

How strange now that I think about it... technically EvE Online is all instanced PvP, yet it's one of the most cut-throat PvP games out there. 

 

Final aside... your last statement - "you made the choice to lose your enjoyment the moment you started playing" - first, most people don't realize the impact or degree PvP will have on them when they first venture into a new game. This should be obvious. Sure, the forum grazing greybeards will, but the newer crowd... not so much. Second, before you preach about who's close-minded or considers their opinion as fact... well, reread that a few times.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  User Deleted
12/04/12 9:51:37 AM#375
Like any game if you have no objectives to full-fill such as camp farming in pve without questing, gathering without crafting., and many more examples the fun of that activity diminishes over time regardless of it being world or instance, or pve activities. Now if in a game like wow you had a system where areas or places in the world could be owned, captured, and gives your side advantages as well as keeping these places constently contested or near constently contested it would give more meaning to world pvp in the game. As just like in instanced pvp you give the pvp in the world a focus, and meaning outside of merely being ganking, stalking, and single warefare. Things like capturing opposing faction holdings, and slowly pushing that faction out of that zone, making it safer for your own faction to play in that zone, but yet allowing the opposing faction to do the same too.
  LhynnSaint

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 122

12/04/12 9:54:17 AM#376
I dont even know why the OP is complaining, there are games with open world pvp, Lineage 2 is an example of that.
  negativf4kk

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/25/12
Posts: 345

12/04/12 10:03:24 AM#377
Originally posted by LhynnSaint
I dont even know why the OP is complaining, there are games with open world pvp, Lineage 2 is an example of that.

Because number of open world pvp games very limited, Lineage 2 is getting really old, RF  online, R2 online are a bit younger but still old. And every year we got 3-4 MMO titles that are very lacking in pvp department.SWTOR, Rift, TSW good pve games but thats about it. 

I agree with OP pvp in modern MMO is nothing but trash.

<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg" border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/04/12 10:05:16 AM#378

Its funny so many here keep using the word "ganked" as an arguement against open world pvp. Because in all my years gaming and playing ive been ganked more in instanced warzone/raids than i have in the open world.

  User Deleted
12/04/12 10:12:58 AM#379
Originally posted by Onomas

Its funny so many here keep using the word "ganked" as an arguement against open world pvp. Because in all my years gaming and playing ive been ganked more in instanced warzone/raids than i have in the open world.

True dat. Which makes something of a mockery of quite a few anti open world arguments you see on here.

  User Deleted
12/04/12 10:14:18 AM#380
Originally posted by Volkon
Originally posted by Asuran24
Originally posted by Volkon

PvP, to me, should be something I engage in when I choose to do so, not when someone else chooses to do so. I don't care if this elicits cries of "carebear" or whatever. I'm not playing these games for someone elses entertainment, I'm playing it for my own. As such, a system like Guild Wars 2, which fully segregates the PvP from the PvE, works ideally for me. If I feel like kicking back and running events, farming materials, doing dungeons, exploring, etc. I can do so at my leisure without worrying about someone who's over-compensating for a depressing real life trying to gank me in game in order to give himself the illusion of being significant. If I want to PvP, I can do so in a balanced arena style setting (sPvP) or in a more chaotic setting (WvW), which is where I actually spend most of my time. I don't dislike PvP at all... I've over 5000 kills in WvW so far and have a blast there. But it's mutually agreed to death and destruction. I'm there by choice. The person/group/zerg I'm clashing with is/are also there by choice. 

 

This whole thought that there should be "penalties" for dying in PvP... completely stupid. Oh, but it makes it mean something! Horsecrap. You're pixels beat up his pixels. Pull the plug on the server and it's like you never existed in game anyhow, so giving some basement dweller the power to punish someone against their will else who's simply playing to have fun... ridiculous, and people should be embarassed for encouraging that. Seriously, what the heck is wrong with these people? You take pride in ruining someone elses fun? Really? Grats, you're an eBully, but only until you step away from the computer. 

 

PvP should be consentual. It shouldn't be designed to "punish" people to the extent their fun is demolished, there no need nor sense in that. It should be fun. Win, lose or draw, both parties should still be able to hop right back into the action without the childishness of corpse-camping or the fear that some clown can now take your gear or weapons that you put who knows how much time and effort into acquiring. It should give you the option of being in a small and controlled environment or chaotic and massive one. The amount of people that would settle for open world gank feasting simply amazes me.

 First off your opinion is fine as it is your opinion on the matter, but trying to say that what others find entertaining or fun, and which gives their game more meaning is somehow wrong is well shallow, and also very telling that you are a extremely closed minded person. I play both Open world, open world FFA, Instance, and perma-death pvp styles alongside many of the pve styles i also play. Having your actions weither it be attacking a mob that is stronger than you, pvping against someone in the  open world, or just taking a risk, and knowing that you could lose hours or progression does appeal an give more meeaning/impact to the way you play. Also when it comes down to it if you play on a game or server that is created an marketed for being a open pvp and open world playstyle, you are accepting that you will have to deal with being attacked or killed at any moment in that game setting, and that does make the pvp in that setting completely consentual as you both knew you would be attack/ganked in that game at some point.  There is a reason you would have a choice of pvp, and pve geared server, and content, which is that certain styles of play are not for everyone's taste, just as not all food is going to be liked by everyone in the world.

 

It amazes me more that so many on both sides of the debate are so closed minded, and arrogant as to think that one methoid, and style of fun is correct an right, while the other is wrong an evil, since fun an enjoyment of an activity is subjective to what each person enjoys, and finds engaging to do for fun. It is jsut like two religous groups argueing over which one iss right, and good, and whcih is evil an corrupt since in the end both are not going to say they are the evil/corrupt ones. Just move on respect that you have differing opinion, and tastes in things, and have fun doing what you enjoy allowing the other to do so as well. All forms of entertainment should be supported in some fashion weither be in a features of a game, certain niche games, or what other options might arise. In the end you have a choice to play a game or not based on what it offers, and so if you play a game with somethign that does not suit your form of fun than you made the choice to lose youur enjoyment at the moment you started playing.

Note the first three words... "PvP, to me". The entirety of it is my personal opinion on the matter, nothing more. Now, on the flip side, I played EvE online for quite some time and enjoyed the hell out of wormhole living. 

 

How strange now that I think about it... technically EvE Online is all instanced PvP, yet it's one of the most cut-throat PvP games out there. 

 

Final aside... your last statement - "you made the choice to lose your enjoyment the moment you started playing" - first, most people don't realize the impact or degree PvP will have on them when they first venture into a new game. This should be obvious. Sure, the forum grazing greybeards will, but the newer crowd... not so much. Second, before you preach about who's close-minded or considers their opinion as fact... well, reread that a few times.

 Yes lets take one part of what was said an place it out of context. As i said "In the end you have a choice to play a game or not based on what it offers, and if you play a game with something that does not suit your form of fun, than you made the choice to lose your enjoument at the moment you started playing." Which means that iif you do not like world pvp an yet you go into a game that is open world pvp, and you get ganked, or killed in the open world you knowingly knew you had that chance, and so you lost your enjoyment by sheer fact of ignoring that the game supported a form of play you do not enjoy. Hmm than if you find you do not like that after you try it, don't complain about it, but merely leave the game after finding that you do not like it. An it is a fact that if you play a game that you know is not created in a style or type you like, you are taking your fun in hand, and taking a risk of not having fun in that game.

 

Also that part is black is your opinion as stated, but than you go on to detail how you think that having penalities, risk or being attacked, or losing your gear as having no sense (this is not you stating your opinion but stating it as if it were a fact of how fun is supposed to be.), when if you look ast many people they enjoy that sense off danger, possibility of losing thigns, and so it makes the game funner for them as it gives the game more maining. You vailed what you said as an opinion, and proceeded to state your prefered style of play as the only true an correct way of playing, with all other ways being wrong an incorrect.

23 Pages First « 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 » Last Search