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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why PVP scares some people?

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256 posts found
  Malcanis

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/17/09
Posts: 3201

"A very special kind of stupidity"

12/04/12 4:32:26 AM#161

I like playing a PvP-focused MMO, but I don't feel rejected or criticised that other people don't. I'm not a big fan of romantic comedies or horror movies, but that's fine I can watch an action thriller or a nature documentary without hating rom-com lovers or calling horror fans mentally disturbed. 

There are hundreds of PvE-focused MMOs for those who like PvE to play and then look! We can all be happy! Choices!

All I ask is that people who don't like PvP MMOs don't try and change the one I like into a PvE MMO. There seem to be an element who believe that they're entitled to endlessly cry to the developers to completely change the character of my game, and they don't give 2 flips about what I or people like me who have supported the game for many years like: they want their way now! I'd like them to respect the choice that I and people like me have made, just as they demend respect for their choice.

Same for sandbox vs themepark, tbh. Don't join a game that's openly advertised as being based on player interaction, ignore everyone else who plays it, and then whine that it "lacks content". That's as dumb as complaining that there's no love theme in Rambo or that there's no characterisation in a David Attenborough show.

Give me liberty or give me lasers

  User Deleted
12/04/12 4:35:04 AM#162

Because they are bads and they don't like getting "the beat down" put on them.

 

Joking aside, whilst the above is true in some cases no doubt, in reality there are countless reasons for people not to want to get involved in pvp. Prime among them is simply that they don't enjoy it.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11927

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

12/04/12 4:57:04 AM#163
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
 
[horrendousness and blaah blah blah]

If the same flaws from the pvp fight are present in pve in very worst degree, so i necessarily come to the conclusion that isn't that flaws the main cause of the distaste of some people to the pvp, but the real possibility of to lose, to die or have much work.

And the conclusion is still wrong. It's two different objectives at play. It has nothing to do with fears or flaws or the real possibility of to lose, to die or have much work.

 

  Rydeson

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3157

12/04/12 6:03:49 AM#164
      I refuse to play a FFA ganking open world PvP game.. All you get is ganking and corpse camping..  If you want pure PvP go play the numerous titles out there such as Call of Duty, or Planetside, etc etc..  All I hear in threads like this is "I want more PvP against easy  targets because I like overpowering the noobs" I find no fun in being the target of a group of kiddies..  I have noticed that soon as the group of kiddies, that were ganking others, are the FIRST to quit when they become the target of a bigger group..  As they say, "There is always a bigger fish"..
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/04/12 6:05:52 AM#165
Someone please make a 100% pure pve aaa mmo.....

Then we can tell all the amateur psychologists to bugger off and play that.
  TangentPoint

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1104

The "Real Game" begins at character creation.

12/04/12 6:20:06 AM#166
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
-SNIP-  

 

Problem with your post is your entire premise is flawed and you make far too many presumptions. First of all, no one is "afraid of PvP". That's just ridiculous, and right from the start you're putting those who don't like PvP in this "cowardly" light. Doesn't bode well for the rest of your post.

Further, you're trying to psychoanalyze something that doesn't require it, especially considering there have been many discussions about this topic where people have come right out and explained why they don't like PvP.

Some people simply don't enjoy PvP style gameplay, just as others don't enjoy PvE. It's a preference. Some people enjoy both equally! Imagine that! I happen to fall into the "enjoys both" category.

Other people prefer the idea of cooperating with others against a common enemy instead of competing against them. And no, that's not those people "fitting in to your category of them being afraid of other players attacking them", so don't even go there. They prefer cooperation over competition - that's all there is to it.

Other people don't like a certain type of player PvP MMOs tend to attract - that is, the one who's not interested in PvP itself (they typically run from anything that remotely resembles a challenge), but just enjoys the fact that a PvP MMO gives them a free ticket to run around acting like a jackass.

People don't like PvP for all those and other reasons. "Being afraid of it" has nothing to do with it. It's rather funny how you keep trying to spin people's explanations against them, so you can "neatly" squeeze them into one of your pre-determined "categories". It further demonstrates how simplistic and narrow-minded your understanding is of people in general.

It's really not some big, deep and complex subject, and it's certainly not as "neat and simple" to define as you try to make it sound.

My philosophy on MMORPGs:

Leveling is what happens while you're playing the rest of the game.

Don't worry about levels. Just play.

  Maroxad

Novice Member

Joined: 3/20/12
Posts: 27

12/04/12 7:10:04 AM#167

Nothing against PvP in general, played some competitive multiplayer not too long ago. I got nothing against it in mmos either, afterall, I highly respect games like EVE and UO, and I wish we could get more games like that.

Problem is however, that a lot of games have PvP that is downright terribly executed, an as a result is not a lot of fun. Examples of this includes WoW. PvP feels like it is nothing more than a tacked on minigame, one that adds absolutely nothing to the core experience. WoW is focused on instances and getting better loot. WoW is not a PvP game, and PvP really is the weakest link in that game.

Of course, you may feel differently, but PvP to a lot of players is not particulary fun in games that arent built around it.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/04/12 7:11:48 AM#168
Agree wow has atrocious pvp
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11927

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

12/04/12 7:13:30 AM#169
Originally posted by Maroxad  Problem is however, that a lot of games have PvP that is downright terribly executed,
 

This is probably the biggest reason that most PvE gamers avoid PvP in MMOs.

 

 

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/04/12 7:26:08 AM#170
Originally posted by Maroxad

Of course, you may feel differently, but PvP to a lot of players is not particulary fun in games that arent built around it.

PVP is one of those bullet points required for marketing a modern game.

But you can tell from the products that a lot of dev teams don't really have their hearts in it.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  loulaki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 797

12/04/12 8:17:21 AM#171

sometimes its hard to loose and item or experience for which you spend a lot of amound of time, so i believe most people are afraid the cost of loss ...

 

in these terms i loved the open pvp with penalties for the serial killers and not full loot, not loot at all !!! but anyway

 

also when there is a sub (like EVE which have a well balanced open world pvp system) then the feel that you losepaid time, makes you anxious and you lose the joy, i wish EVE was without sub ...

  maccarthur2004

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 447

 
OP  12/04/12 10:23:10 AM#172
Originally posted by Caliburn101

The fact is, PvP players fall roughly into two camps (and yes, I know many bridge it too) - the ones who enjoy the challenge and playstyle, and the ones who get a buzz from one-sided encounters, ganking and endless insults afterwards - the kinds of people who will try their hardest to utterly ruin the online experience of other people and then wail endlessly if any controls are put in place - guards, consequence systems, flags etc.

The OP does seem to empathise with the latter type of player. Seriously thinking that a desire to avoid the 'borstal playground' bahaviour of such PvP players is an issue of 'fear' is clearly ridiculous. To think it is a factor is more of an indication of the mindset of the person asking the question than it will ever be of those refered to.

 

You are completely wrong. Read my others posts and see for yourself if i like gankers or no. In one of these posts, i advocate a system where a high lv player has your lv automaticaly decreased when entering a lower lv zone.

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  maccarthur2004

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 447

 
OP  12/04/12 10:35:43 AM#173
The majjority of posts from page 15 ahead only repeat things already discussed in this very thread, so is no necessary to answer for now, i will only wait them read the rest and do new contrapositions.

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3057

12/04/12 10:40:46 AM#174
The only problem I have with PvP is people that tend to PvP only have god complex issues.  If they kill someone they're the greatest player to ever log into a computer.  If someone kills them, they have to be hacking to kill me!
  maccarthur2004

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/12
Posts: 447

 
OP  12/04/12 10:40:56 AM#175
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
 
[horrendousness and blaah blah blah]

If the same flaws from the pvp fight are present in pve in very worst degree, so i necessarily come to the conclusion that isn't that flaws the main cause of the distaste of some people to the pvp, but the real possibility of to lose, to die or have much work.

And the conclusion is still wrong. It's two different objectives at play. It has nothing to do with fears or flaws or the real possibility of to lose, to die or have much work.

 

That post was specifically adressed only to people that say to avoid/hate pvp only because balance/fainess issues or because the pvp fight is crap. I showed that pve is far worst than pvp in these same aspects, therefore these aren't the real reasons to them avoid/hate pvp.

 

 

"What we are aiming in ArcheAge is to let the players feel the true fun of MMORPG by forming a community like real life by interacting with other players, whether it be conflict or cooperation." (Jake Song)

  TheIdealist

Novice Member

Joined: 4/28/05
Posts: 12

12/04/12 10:44:37 AM#176
Open world pvp is the best thing ever made for mmorpg's! Without open world pvp it's a little bit like a singleplayer game...
  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11927

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

12/04/12 10:48:13 AM#177
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by maccarthur2004
 
[horrendousness and blaah blah blah]

If the same flaws from the pvp fight are present in pve in very worst degree, so i necessarily come to the conclusion that isn't that flaws the main cause of the distaste of some people to the pvp, but the real possibility of to lose, to die or have much work.

And the conclusion is still wrong. It's two different objectives at play. It has nothing to do with fears or flaws or the real possibility of to lose, to die or have much work.

That post was specifically adressed only to people that say to avoid/hate pvp only because balance/fainess issues or because the pvp fight is crap. I showed that pve is far worst than pvp in these same aspects, therefore these aren't the real reasons to them avoid/hate pvp.

Actually, you showed nothing, because they are two different objectives. In PvE, the player is killing mobs to get to their goal. In PvP, killing the player is the goal. Presence of a similar mechanic (combat) between the two activities does not automatically make them the same activity, thus the reasons for playing and the perception of the challenges presented are not only distinctly different but incomparable.

Once you understand that we can then move forward with the conversation.

 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

12/04/12 11:39:29 AM#178
Gravarg:
And hardcore raid types with their gear scores and dkp systems and arcane internal guild hierarchies don't?
  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19281

12/04/12 11:42:28 AM#179
Originally posted by TheIdealist
Open world pvp is the best thing ever made for mmorpg's! Without open world pvp it's a little bit like a singleplayer game...

How is it a single players game when:

- you trade with others on AH?

- you group with others in dungeons?

- you show off your gear to others?

 

You don't need pvp at all for a MMORPG.

  Nikopol

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/08
Posts: 627

Brought to you by... The Spirit of Nikopol.

12/04/12 12:35:33 PM#180

OP; to me, it's the other way around. I don't care for organized PVP systems like battlegrounds or even RvR, but I like open world PVP. Without any systems, or maybe even incentivization. And I'm primarily a PVE player.

To me, PVP should not be something that's a goal but something that just happens. Something that pisses you off, keeps you from accomplishing some other thing. A hindrance you should overcome. You're going for a resource, some enemy player is going for the same resource, you duke it out. You want to go into a dungeon, and some enemy players are there and want the place for themselves, you duke it out.

That's the only way PVP can be - to use a popular phrase around here - "meaningful" to me, because it's all part of the te?ture then. Part of the overall progress. Other players become obstacles to your goal, which makes said accomplishment feel more fulfilling.

So, how about PVP for PVP's sake? Doesn't work for me. All the PVP systems make the PVP feel somewhat phony. I never get that sense of purpose. I like having goals that reach far and wide and have to do with the open game world mechanics - be it fishing a special item, mining some hot ore, running a good transport route or whatever. Organized PVP, especially as it is in modern games, feels isolated to me. Any system you bring in, you limit what PVP can mean.

EVE is probably the one game where even "PVP for PVP's sake" ends up more than PVP.  Or rather, everything ends up one form of PVP or another. :)

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