Trending Games | Wizard101 | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | ArcheAge

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,899,270 Users Online:0
Games:751  Posts:6,267,769
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » We dont want games - we want worlds.

37 Pages First « 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 » Last Search
735 posts found
  toddze

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2203

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

12/03/12 4:31:52 AM#541
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that its high time for game companies that want to make MMOs to understand one simple thing about MMO player :

We dont want games - we want worlds.

 

We have millions of games - Halo , Super Mario , Starcraft , Monkey Island , Baldurs Gate ... to note few genre stars.

Now they want to take these games and add multiplayer aspect - and slap brand this MMORPG.

This my friends is the themepark world. And the direction its moving ( we are seeing mmofps , mmo platformer , mmo sport , even mmo adventure - beside more traditional mmorpg approach )

 

But this is not what we are here for ... not what we wanted...

When I played games before the era of internet , this was not what I dreamed of - Super Mario with oter people playing.

No.

What I dreamed was Ultima Online

This dream was shared in developer community that was young and not GREED oriented as today.

And than it stopped. Because its easier to just make a game and add multiplayer element.

And we have what we have today. Shallow abominations. Most laughable of which would be MMOs that came 2012. Basically Single player games with other people running around.

This. That much is obvious - will not fly anymore.

 

We want worlds.

You can call it sandbox. I call it Virtual world simulation games.

Worlds that have its rules , its economy , its inhabitants , its dangers , its politics - and than we are put inside - and become part of them.

 

Sadly only good and sucessful modern example of this is EVE online.

The game that caters bit to much to agressive player.... but there is so much potential around.

 

Will we ever see it ?

 

 

 

 

 

One problem, the majority of MMO players are not true MMO players, most are single player rpg players.

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  sanshi44

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/12/09
Posts: 1057

12/03/12 4:50:15 AM#542
Originally posted by toddze
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that its high time for game companies that want to make MMOs to understand one simple thing about MMO player :

We dont want games - we want worlds.

 

We have millions of games - Halo , Super Mario , Starcraft , Monkey Island , Baldurs Gate ... to note few genre stars.

Now they want to take these games and add multiplayer aspect - and slap brand this MMORPG.

This my friends is the themepark world. And the direction its moving ( we are seeing mmofps , mmo platformer , mmo sport , even mmo adventure - beside more traditional mmorpg approach )

 

But this is not what we are here for ... not what we wanted...

When I played games before the era of internet , this was not what I dreamed of - Super Mario with oter people playing.

No.

What I dreamed was Ultima Online

This dream was shared in developer community that was young and not GREED oriented as today.

And than it stopped. Because its easier to just make a game and add multiplayer element.

And we have what we have today. Shallow abominations. Most laughable of which would be MMOs that came 2012. Basically Single player games with other people running around.

This. That much is obvious - will not fly anymore.

 

We want worlds.

You can call it sandbox. I call it Virtual world simulation games.

Worlds that have its rules , its economy , its inhabitants , its dangers , its politics - and than we are put inside - and become part of them.

 

Sadly only good and sucessful modern example of this is EVE online.

The game that caters bit to much to agressive player.... but there is so much potential around.

 

Will we ever see it ?

 

 

 

 

 

One problem, the majority of MMO players are not true MMO players, most are single player rpg players.

Indeed, however 90% of the majority of those player have never acualy tried a real MMORPG and dont know anything about them. I can ask in most game what was the first MMORPG and most of them will say World of Warcraft. If a company were to make a real MMORPG well you may see alot of that majorty acualy give the game a try and with anyluck they wont try and change the game to be a WoW clone and they will acualy enjoy it.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

12/03/12 6:12:45 AM#543
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by lizardbones Anyway, their peak users had to be at least a million. They had a million accounts as of the pre-order period just before launch. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/108017-Rift-Tops-the-One-Million-Account-Mark. They could have had five people playing one month later, but they sold at least a million boxes before they went global.  
You can have an account even without paying for the game. This is the same argument back from the rift forums, if rift would EVER have a million live subs, do you think Trion would have kept it a SECRET, just so that a few guys could argue over it on teh internetz? :)

 

That was really my only problem with your post, even if i stupidly commented on the box price vs sub number thing.

You may carry on bashing purist sandboxes. I made my point sufficiently clear a few pages back when you argued with yourself :)

Flame on!

:)




Bah! Duped by verbiage! In any event, pick any two of the following games: Rift, SWToR, GW2, AoC, WarHammer, and you'll get a significantly bigger number of peak players than UO + SWG + Eve. The most popular games, judged by peak players are not sandboxes.

What is your point, exactly?

 

My point was that you and other are intentionally steering the discussion towards "purist sanboxes like eve" vs everything else, just to bash eve and uo on sub numbers and profit.

We had early wow, aion, lineage 2, runescape, aoc, all games which, despite their other shortcomings, sufficiently "sold" a big world, player interaction, economy and politics (in varied degrees, ofcourse).

But ofcourse it is easier to just say "No." as you did last time and repeat the "sandbox no profit" mantra (twice).

Flame on!

:)

 

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10861

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/03/12 8:31:05 AM#544


Originally posted by Banaghran
My point was that you and other are intentionally steering the discussion towards "purist sanboxes like eve" vs everything else, just to bash eve and uo on sub numbers and profit.

We had early wow, aion, lineage 2, runescape, aoc, all games which, despite their other shortcomings, sufficiently "sold" a big world, player interaction, economy and politics (in varied degrees, ofcourse).

But ofcourse it is easier to just say "No." as you did last time and repeat the "sandbox no profit" mantra (twice).

Flame on!

:)

 




I'm not steering the conversation towards Eve, SWG and UO. I can't help it if people keep bringing those games up as proof of something. I could try not responding, but what would be the fun of that?

WoW has a big environment, but it's not a world of the type the OP is talking about. Even in the areas where dynamic content exists, the world is simply reflecting the part of the path the player is on. It's not a dynamic response to the player. It is certainly big, but it is static. AoC is the same way. The games present the player with a story, with a clear path with a beginning, middle and end. Rift has a far more responsive and dynamic 'world' than either WoW or AoC. It's a tiny environment, but it has more dynamic content. It's not a world though...the players are still following a story path.

The op is talking about interactive worlds that respond to player activities with more content. You will have to go a long ways to show that WoW, Aion and AoC sold some sort of interactive world. I have no idea about L2.

** edit **
People are bringing up sandbox games because they are a much better fit for the OP's goal of 'worlds', while theme parks are a much better fit for 'games'.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10861

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/03/12 8:41:18 AM#545


Originally posted by toddze
One problem, the majority of MMO players are not true MMO players, most are single player rpg players.


What is a "true" MMORPG player? If most of the players are not "true" MMORPG players, why would any developer bother with creating games for "true" MMORPG players?

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10861

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/03/12 8:58:06 AM#546


Originally posted by Onomas
EQNext

The repopulation

Archeage

Greed Monger

The Black Desert

Dark Fall 2/UW

Dragons Prophet (sounds like they are going sandbox style) Thats 2 games SOE are making snadboxes ;) Told you a change was coming :P

Age of Wushu (but think this is a hybrid, havent read much into it)

Embers of Caerus

Origins of Malu

Theres 10, need a few more? Some of these look damn good, and some have so called "themepark/hybrid" additions to them. But in general are sandbox games. Because honestly i think its stupid to call a sandbox a hybrid just because its got story, quests, and other stuff that normaly come with sandboxes lol.

 




I will probably wait until they release before I say anything about the games themselves. I've been burned a few times on the "this is the great sandbox hope" train. However, skipping ahead, why are developers starting to try more 'world' based games and mechanics? I can think of a couple reasons.

* They're out of ideas for theme park style games. They can come up with new IPs, but are at a loss for new content and mechanics in a theme park setting that isn't just a slight variation on existing games.

* Theme parks do not provide longevity and they now know they can't provide enough content to players in that setting. Adding player interaction via sandbox mechanics will add longevity to their games.

* Adding the sandbox content isn't going to cost them more money compared to adding a lot of theme park content. There is a cost justification.

I don't think content like what the OP has described will really make it in though. It's not a cost thing, players will just break whatever dynamic and interactive systems the developers put in there.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20106

12/03/12 12:01:22 PM#547
Originally posted by Onomas
 

If not popular then why are 9 of them coming out soon? Some are AAA as well. Fact is themeparks have become worse and had their day. Now things will progress in a different direction. Bet you half of those will do better than the last 50 themeparks, because since Rift......... none have been worthy. So 1 out of 100 themeparks amount to anything, and this is your arguement for why themeparks are better and shouldnt change? Because im confused. I want a real mmo, an epic game with a massive world. Most you guys attacking sandboxes want the opposite.

Because despite what you believe, companies try new things all the time. Some becomes popualr (like Dishonored), and some not so much (like the new Xcom remake).

In fact, you can't say these 9 games are popular until they are out, can you?

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20106

12/03/12 12:03:01 PM#548
Originally posted by toddze
 

One problem, the majority of MMO players are not true MMO players, most are single player rpg players.

Why is this a "problem"? MMO should be adapting to players, not the other way around.

There is nothing sacred about "true MMOs" .. they are just a form of entertainment.

  demongoat

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 68

12/03/12 12:26:09 PM#549
Originally posted by toddze
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that its high time for game companies that want to make MMOs to understand one simple thing about MMO player :

We dont want games - we want worlds.

 

We have millions of games - Halo , Super Mario , Starcraft , Monkey Island , Baldurs Gate ... to note few genre stars.

Now they want to take these games and add multiplayer aspect - and slap brand this MMORPG.

This my friends is the themepark world. And the direction its moving ( we are seeing mmofps , mmo platformer , mmo sport , even mmo adventure - beside more traditional mmorpg approach )

 

But this is not what we are here for ... not what we wanted...

When I played games before the era of internet , this was not what I dreamed of - Super Mario with oter people playing.

No.

What I dreamed was Ultima Online

This dream was shared in developer community that was young and not GREED oriented as today.

And than it stopped. Because its easier to just make a game and add multiplayer element.

And we have what we have today. Shallow abominations. Most laughable of which would be MMOs that came 2012. Basically Single player games with other people running around.

This. That much is obvious - will not fly anymore.

 

We want worlds.

You can call it sandbox. I call it Virtual world simulation games.

Worlds that have its rules , its economy , its inhabitants , its dangers , its politics - and than we are put inside - and become part of them.

 

Sadly only good and sucessful modern example of this is EVE online.

The game that caters bit to much to agressive player.... but there is so much potential around.

 

Will we ever see it ?

 

 

 

 

 

One problem, the majority of MMO players are not true MMO players, most are single player rpg players.

uh no, i know plenty of people who are mmo players who have never touched a single player rpg in their lives.

they started playing WoW because they liked the game world, the ideas behind WoW and playing a game you gain levels and items in.

what the heck makes a "true" mmo player? someone who agrees with the mantra you guys are repeating?

i've played UO, EQ1,daoc, and pretty much all the other mmos that came before WoW,  i see no difference between WoW and everquest, except that WoW makes you feel more like a hero and less like an extermantor of orcs.

what makes a world? seamlessness? scope of the world? zone size? non-combat things? deepness of tradeskills?

need for other players?

 

is it possible to articulate it? 

i start to wonder if they should change the name from mmorpg.com to grumpyoldmmoplayerretirementhome.com

too long though.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20106

12/03/12 4:17:09 PM#550
Originally posted by demongoat
Originally posted by toddze
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think that its high time for game companies that want to make MMOs to understand one simple thing about MMO player :

We dont want games - we want worlds.

 

We have millions of games - Halo , Super Mario , Starcraft , Monkey Island , Baldurs Gate ... to note few genre stars.

Now they want to take these games and add multiplayer aspect - and slap brand this MMORPG.

This my friends is the themepark world. And the direction its moving ( we are seeing mmofps , mmo platformer , mmo sport , even mmo adventure - beside more traditional mmorpg approach )

 

But this is not what we are here for ... not what we wanted...

When I played games before the era of internet , this was not what I dreamed of - Super Mario with oter people playing.

No.

What I dreamed was Ultima Online

This dream was shared in developer community that was young and not GREED oriented as today.

And than it stopped. Because its easier to just make a game and add multiplayer element.

And we have what we have today. Shallow abominations. Most laughable of which would be MMOs that came 2012. Basically Single player games with other people running around.

This. That much is obvious - will not fly anymore.

 

We want worlds.

You can call it sandbox. I call it Virtual world simulation games.

Worlds that have its rules , its economy , its inhabitants , its dangers , its politics - and than we are put inside - and become part of them.

 

Sadly only good and sucessful modern example of this is EVE online.

The game that caters bit to much to agressive player.... but there is so much potential around.

 

Will we ever see it ?

 

 

 

 

 

One problem, the majority of MMO players are not true MMO players, most are single player rpg players.

uh no, i know plenty of people who are mmo players who have never touched a single player rpg in their lives.

they started playing WoW because they liked the game world, the ideas behind WoW and playing a game you gain levels and items in.

what the heck makes a "true" mmo player? someone who agrees with the mantra you guys are repeating?

i've played UO, EQ1,daoc, and pretty much all the other mmos that came before WoW,  i see no difference between WoW and everquest, except that WoW makes you feel more like a hero and less like an extermantor of orcs.

what makes a world? seamlessness? scope of the world? zone size? non-combat things? deepness of tradeskills?

need for other players?

 

is it possible to articulate it? 

i start to wonder if they should change the name from mmorpg.com to grumpyoldmmoplayerretirementhome.com

too long though.

 

This site is covering non-world online games like LOL, WOT, Diablo anyway. The genre needs to expand. There is no reason why good MMO features cannot go into other online games and vice versa.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3284

Poacher killer.

12/03/12 5:09:40 PM#551
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by toddze

One problem, the majority of MMO players are not true MMO players, most are single player rpg players.

Why is this a "problem"? MMO should be adapting to players, not the other way around.

There is nothing sacred about "true MMOs" .. they are just a form of entertainment.

Enough already, we all understand that games are entertainment. You are not having an epiphany the 20 times a day you post this. lol.

Also, I am completely aware that you are struggling to understand why some of us hold this genre in a different light. A lot of us treat MMOs as more of a hobby than a mere game. They aren't "sacred", that's just being dramatic and silly. The concept of playing a game in a huge world with massive amounts of other players, that had so much to offer that people could potentially play for periods longer than a few weeks or months is what brought me here. Commitment to a good mmo does not mean that that's the only game that can be played. I have still remained a RTS/FPS gamer throughout my time with MMOs.

Singleplayer/multiplayer online games have all benefitted from borrowed MMO features and design. MMOs, on the hand, have had their foundation ripped out and are quickly losing any sense of what they were intended for. Now we have people literally gobbling them up like potato chips because they have zero lasting power. MMOs really got the shit end of the stick as these new disposable gamers started flooding the industry. 

You might be having a fiesta with this unfortunate abomination, but surely you can see why so many of us do not like where this genre is heading. Frankly, when we do get to the other side, I doubt many will be thrilled with the end result; yourself included.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  VengeSunsoar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/04
Posts: 4850

Be Brief, Be Bright... Be Gone.

12/03/12 6:01:44 PM#552
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by toddze

One problem, the majority of MMO players are not true MMO players, most are single player rpg players.

Why is this a "problem"? MMO should be adapting to players, not the other way around.

There is nothing sacred about "true MMOs" .. they are just a form of entertainment.

Enough already, we all understand that games are entertainment. You are not having an epiphany the 20 times a day you post this. lol.

Also, I am completely aware that you are struggling to understand why some of us hold this genre in a different light. A lot of us treat MMOs as more of a hobby than a mere game. They aren't "sacred", that's just being dramatic and silly. The concept of playing a game in a huge world with massive amounts of other players, that had so much to offer that people could potentially play for periods longer than a few weeks or months is what brought me here. Commitment to a good mmo does not mean that that's the only game that can be played. I have still remained a RTS/FPS gamer throughout my time with MMOs.

Singleplayer/multiplayer online games have all benefitted from borrowed MMO features and design. MMOs, on the hand, have had their foundation ripped out and are quickly losing any sense of what they were intended for. Now we have people literally gobbling them up like potato chips because they have zero lasting power. MMOs really got the shit end of the stick as these new disposable gamers started flooding the industry. 

You might be having a fiesta with this unfortunate abomination, but surely you can see why so many of us do not like where this genre is heading. Frankly, when we do get to the other side, I doubt many will be thrilled with the end result; yourself included.

 It's not that we don't understand.  We do understand however we do not agree.  I don't agree that MMO's have had their foundation ripped out from under them. I do feel they are becoming more and more inclusive they are having more varied experiences.  I do feel that MMO's by and large have significantly been positively impacted by the inclusion of many things that are in spg.

Today even with a busier schedule, I feel I have far more value for my dollar, far more choice in what games to play and how to pay for them, and far more choice in how I choose to play the game than in days gone by.  I see this trend increasing. 

Other people don't like them, thats fine.  I by and large don't like many games either (be they spg, mmo, muliplayer, fps...) that hasn't really changed from basically my whole life.

Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/03/12 11:35:04 PM#553
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Onomas
 

If not popular then why are 9 of them coming out soon? Some are AAA as well. Fact is themeparks have become worse and had their day. Now things will progress in a different direction. Bet you half of those will do better than the last 50 themeparks, because since Rift......... none have been worthy. So 1 out of 100 themeparks amount to anything, and this is your arguement for why themeparks are better and shouldnt change? Because im confused. I want a real mmo, an epic game with a massive world. Most you guys attacking sandboxes want the opposite.

Because despite what you believe, companies try new things all the time. Some becomes popualr (like Dishonored), and some not so much (like the new Xcom remake).

In fact, you can't say these 9 games are popular until they are out, can you?

Sure i can, just look at the front page ;)

And you keep comparing single player games to mmorpgs, yet again. We dont care about your single player games, we are sandbox junkies.....get it?

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  12/04/12 1:30:24 AM#554

Ok, you want a good example of a virtual world game that changes according to players influence and creates its own "themepark" naturally -

Here is Elite: Dangerous dev diary 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5hsI&feature=youtu.be

  Jemcrystal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1354

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

12/04/12 2:04:49 AM#555
 Bigga, fat worlds!  Round like a pregnant women's belly.  Bursting with fruit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EoRBvdVPQ

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5610

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

12/04/12 3:23:35 AM#556
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Ok, you want a good example of a virtual world game that changes according to players influence and creates its own "themepark" naturally -

Here is Elite: Dangerous dev diary 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5hsI&feature=youtu.be

So... its a system similar to what GW2 uses plus a touch of WAR where completing missions will advance your side's influence?

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  12/04/12 3:41:43 AM#557
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Lobotomist

Ok, you want a good example of a virtual world game that changes according to players influence and creates its own "themepark" naturally -

Here is Elite: Dangerous dev diary 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uKD1ap5hsI&feature=youtu.be

So... its a system similar to what GW2 uses plus a touch of WAR where completing missions will advance your side's influence?

Yes and no

What you mention would be themepark simulation of the real thing. Premade events set to trigger if certan requirements are met. It looks like the real thing , but as all themepark its just a prop.

In example of virtual world changes are not prescripted events they are run by NPC AI.

For example if a certain faction (planet in above elite example) is suffering food shortage it will start importing food , perhaps try to invide other faction and steal their food. Other faction will maybe take advantage of their weaknes and attack , or blocade food import.

Anything can happen and its not pre-scripted at all (as in examples you mentioned)

And this time themepark players (the ones that enjoy quests and story) will really have what to talk about with their friends :)

  Scot

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5278

12/04/12 4:38:14 AM#558

I was very interested in the concept of putting a themepark in the same game as a sandbox. it is something we have talked about on here before. The idea that one lot of players goes one way, doing all the quests, running the raids and so on. While another group of players goes of and never does a quest, they pillage a village or build one, craft a set of armour and puts their name on it, dam a river and start a fisihing industry.

Hard to achieve, but the best of both worlds.

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5610

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

12/04/12 6:13:17 AM#559
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Yes and no

What you mention would be themepark simulation of the real thing. Premade events set to trigger if certan requirements are met. It looks like the real thing , but as all themepark its just a prop.

In example of virtual world changes are not prescripted events they are run by NPC AI.

For example if a certain faction (planet in above elite example) is suffering food shortage it will start importing food , perhaps try to invide other faction and steal their food. Other faction will maybe take advantage of their weaknes and attack , or blocade food import.

Anything can happen and its not pre-scripted at all (as in examples you mentioned)

And this time themepark players (the ones that enjoy quests and story) will really have what to talk about with their friends :)

You don't know whether they are scripted or not (likely to an extent, they are) and even if they weren't the end result is the same. Don't see what the fuzz is about. There's not much difference.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3411

12/04/12 6:26:24 AM#560
Originally posted by Scot

I was very interested in the concept of putting a themepark in the same game as a sandbox. it is something we have talked about on here before. The idea that one lot of players goes one way, doing all the quests, running the raids and so on. While another group of players goes of and never does a quest, they pillage a village or build one, craft a set of armour and puts their name on it, dam a river and start a fisihing industry.

Hard to achieve, but the best of both worlds.

again I'm in agreement with you..

     I have always wanted a game that is built like a spider web..  Imagine a game that has 6 starting races and cities.. Each race owning a section of land that allows each to reach max level without ever leaving their home faction.. So if you have a new zone per 10 levels, you would have 6 zones per race, making it 36 zones FOR themepark enthuist.. In addition I would have 6 zones that are basically "sandbox".. Anyone at any given time can go into these zones voluntarly and take part of the sandbox.. Therefore we end up 42 zones in all.. Each zone would have their own sub factions and perks as well, and players would not be limited to only doing their home faction.. Just like GW2 has done, players can cross race zones at anytime and enjoy ALL 42 zones..

     However, I do want to see leveling alot slower then it is now..  For someone to build up faction in all 42 zones takes more then just a few months.. I'm talking YEARS..  When a character starts their lifetime journey, I want them to be able to customize their biography based on their personal actions, not be some predetermines storyline themepark..  Example would be if I started an elf druid, while another players started a human druid..  By the time the both of us are max level, our choices on what zones we ventured in, and our actions will make us unique..

     Having 6 zones per stage of leveling, (if I did my math right) means the odds of meeting another character that chose the same path as you did is 1 of 46,656.... Sure eventually over the years, everyone will have faction in all 6 starting races and 36 sub factions.. BUT that will take years, and I do means more then 2.. I'm thinking 4 or 5 years for the hardcore players..  by then more zones would have been produces and you have more zones to play in..

37 Pages First « 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 » Last Search