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Darkfall: Unholy Wars

Darkfall: Unholy Wars 

General Discussion  » Aventurine underestimated the force of dedicated crafters

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63 posts found
  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  12/03/12 12:06:24 PM#1

After the interview there have been 1 topic dominating Darkfall forums, should everyone be able to craft everything or should it be restrictions?

 

Best poll so far inform us that players want restictions and it is a landslide win - 

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=334728

 

Dedicated crafters would bring more subscribers and a larger variety of players, not just the PvP interested ones. A ingame economy would be another good side-effect. The game of today will have a very limited economy at best.

 

I believe Aventurine didnt realize the negativ effect their choice of keeping a failed crafting system.

Lets hope we will see some major changes to the crafting system in near future. It need developer priority.

  Murdus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 704

we own the sky

12/03/12 12:25:50 PM#2

Dedicated crafters vs. dedicated combat players.

The way combat players have it is currently they can master all roles, but only play as one at a time. So there is a huge diversity in playstyle for the combat player.

Now you have someone playing the game only to craft and play the market. Limit him/her to only 1 mastery, and they are useless to create other forms of items. Depending on what type of limit that is it could mean a lot of things. For instance if it was one mastery per character... well that's one mastery per account. That's a pretty strict crafting system. It would always allow more players to master crafting who aren't dedicated crafters.

The way they set it up now is much better because as a combat player it will take a lot of time that you won't want to spend crafting in order to master all roles. However a dedicated crafter will have them all mastered and be 'the dedicated crafter' they want to be, able to craft everything that's possible.

 

Also that 'landslide' win is a horrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiibbbbbbllllleeeeee sample size. 55 people voted in that thread. The data is completely useless.

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  12/03/12 12:48:17 PM#3
Originally posted by Murdus

The way they set it up now is much better because as a combat player it will take a lot of time that you won't want to spend crafting in order to master all roles. However a dedicated crafter will have them all mastered and be 'the dedicated crafter' they want to be, able to craft everything that's possible.

 

Also that 'landslide' win is a horrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiibbbbbbllllleeeeee sample size. 55 people voted in that thread. The data is completely useless.

It wont take alot of time to master the combat character. A couple of weeks and your done with one of them, a couple of months and you have them all.

When you mastered all what will you the increase? Crafting of course.

That mean everyone will in near future after release master both all combat characters and crafting.

 

There is many interesting ideas on how a future crafting system should work out and this is the best one i seen so far from ManiShakibPour  -  http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=334728&page=2-

 

After thinking about this issue quite a bit I'd like to see a crafting specialization system, the same way you choose to specialize as a warrior, elementalist, skirmisher or primalist. It might be ok if everyone can craft some basic stuff but for more advanced items I think you should have to sacrifice something in order to make them. You have two schools you can choose from, now with this system you could for example be a battle brand/crafter combo or an air magic/crafter combo. Also in order to avoid abusing the system I think there should be a really long cooldown if you want to switch from the crafter role. Or if you switch from the crafter role you would lose your mastery skills attached to that role and have to retrain them if you switched back again.

Someone specializing in the crafter role would be able to make all items, even the most advanced ones, the crafter school could include ship-, city- and siege equipment crafting as well. This way we would all of a sudden have a crafter community, people feeling like something special when they are a crafter and a much more diverse game. Also make crafting really hard to gain so it feels like an accomplishment to reach a grandmaster crafter status.

Obviously this system can be tweaked around but the concept is what I most of all would like to see. 

  123443211234

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/08/07
Posts: 231

12/03/12 2:02:08 PM#4

What you don't realize here aragon is that aventurine aren't building a game for crafters.  If I had to guess I would say they really don't care what a "dedicated crafter's" perspective even is.  The reason being is that in Darkfall you cannot just be a crafter, maybe one guy here or there but thats it.  The reason being is you need resources to make stuff.  You will have to go farm up the stuff to be able to make stuff.  This means venturing out into the world and having to deal with pvp.  Yes, this is a pvp game and in order to craft you will have to pvp.  I don't think you guys realize how many resources will be needed to grind up crafting skills, and especially in the early stages of the game where resources are very rare (competitive).  Yes eventually you will be able to make everything, but this is going to take you a long long time  and tons and tons of resources to do.  A "dedicated" crafter will have quit the game long before they max out all the crafting disciplines because of the resources (and methods to get said resources) that will be necessary.

If you think your guild is just going to "feed" you resources to grind then good luck to you, but any guild that does so is being extremely foolish and shortsighted, for having only one person that can make said items makes you dependant on that one person being around, not getting bored, and not guild hopping.

 

Crafting is just one of those things that is there for everyone to use and "eventually" max, its not designed nor intended for its own playstyle and if you try to only craft you will fail miserably and quit the game in disgust without ever actually even playing the game.

On top of all this one of the core principles of DF is that anything in the world is craftable by anyone, making crafting much more restrictive would only hurt this philosophy.

 

 

 

 

TLDR:  Trying to implement crafting restrictions is a silly waste of everyone's time.

  Badaboom

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2389

12/03/12 2:09:18 PM#5
Originally posted by 123443211234

What you don't realize here aragon is that aventurine aren't building a game for crafters.  If I had to guess I would say they really don't care what a "dedicated crafter's" perspective even is.  The reason being is that in Darkfall you cannot just be a crafter, maybe one guy here or there but thats it.  The reason being is you need resources to make stuff.  You will have to go farm up the stuff to be able to make stuff.  This means venturing out into the world and having to deal with pvp.  Yes, this is a pvp game and in order to craft you will have to pvp.  I don't think you guys realize how many resources will be needed to grind up crafting skills, and especially in the early stages of the game where resources are very rare (competitive).  Yes eventually you will be able to make everything, but this is going to take you a long long time  and tons and tons of resources to do.  A "dedicated" crafter will have quit the game long before they max out all the crafting disciplines because of the resources (and methods to get said resources) that will be necessary.

If you think your guild is just going to "feed" you resources to grind then good luck to you, but any guild that does so is being extremely foolish and shortsighted, for having only one person that can make said items makes you dependant on that one person being around, not getting bored, and not guild hopping.

 

Crafting is just one of those things that is there for everyone to use and "eventually" max, its not designed nor intended for its own playstyle and if you try to only craft you will fail miserably and quit the game in disgust without ever actually even playing the game.

On top of all this one of the core principles of DF is that anything in the world is craftable by anyone, making crafting much more restrictive would only hurt this philosophy.

 

 

 

 

TLDR:  Trying to implement crafting restrictions is a silly waste of everyone's time.

This is exactly the type of mentality of player that makes Darkfall less of a sandbox and just a big pvp arena. 

  DarthRaiden

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4547

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till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

12/03/12 2:19:58 PM#6
Originally posted by Badaboom
Originally posted by 123443211234

What you don't realize here aragon is that aventurine aren't building a game for crafters.  If I had to guess I would say they really don't care what a "dedicated crafter's" perspective even is.  The reason being is that in Darkfall you cannot just be a crafter, maybe one guy here or there but thats it.  The reason being is you need resources to make stuff.  You will have to go farm up the stuff to be able to make stuff.  This means venturing out into the world and having to deal with pvp.  Yes, this is a pvp game and in order to craft you will have to pvp.  I don't think you guys realize how many resources will be needed to grind up crafting skills, and especially in the early stages of the game where resources are very rare (competitive).  Yes eventually you will be able to make everything, but this is going to take you a long long time  and tons and tons of resources to do.  A "dedicated" crafter will have quit the game long before they max out all the crafting disciplines because of the resources (and methods to get said resources) that will be necessary.

If you think your guild is just going to "feed" you resources to grind then good luck to you, but any guild that does so is being extremely foolish and shortsighted, for having only one person that can make said items makes you dependant on that one person being around, not getting bored, and not guild hopping.

 

Crafting is just one of those things that is there for everyone to use and "eventually" max, its not designed nor intended for its own playstyle and if you try to only craft you will fail miserably and quit the game in disgust without ever actually even playing the game.

On top of all this one of the core principles of DF is that anything in the world is craftable by anyone, making crafting much more restrictive would only hurt this philosophy.

 

 

 

 

TLDR:  Trying to implement crafting restrictions is a silly waste of everyone's time.

This is exactly the type of mentality of player that makes Darkfall less of a sandbox and just a big pvp arena. 

 

What gives us signs of hope is that that types of player are a minority over at official forums according to poll in link provided by OP.  This minority includes Tasos the associative producer and surely a small  mind at the AV office.

 

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  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  12/03/12 5:12:21 PM#7
Originally posted by 123443211234

What you don't realize here aragon is that aventurine aren't building a game for crafters. 

Yes they are.

Problem is they have a worthless crafting system.

Interesting too see that such a vast majority of the playerbase want a better one.

They say they listen to their playerbase so will see if improvements is coming. 

 

  gravesworn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 325

12/03/12 5:36:14 PM#8
Putting restrictions on crafting is fine for me, hell most of the pvpers will be concerned with pvping and sieging. Seiging takes a good bit of resources. To me the only problem with specialized crafting is it is dependent on player population. High pop it is all good, low pop getting things becomes tedious. Just really depends on the ebb and flow of the game,,,, hell i remember a time before housing an all that jazz. If they are faster than last time about putting in sandbox and crafting fluff then we shouldnt have a problem either way but who knows.
  BizkitNL

Old School

Joined: 12/29/02
Posts: 2293

"Free to play, pay to win""

12/03/12 5:41:42 PM#9
A sandbox has to be built by players before people can go out to destroy it. To me, crafters are essential to the genre. Ignoring that would only make it a big PvP free-for-all arena. If thats a sandbox, then so is Forge :).

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  Snoepie

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/07
Posts: 493

12/03/12 5:44:57 PM#10

none gives  anything about crafting ingame believe me..

 

you can be a trader tho. which is fine..

 

the strenght of darkfall does not lie in the crafting system.. altho everything ingame can be crafted.. which is good a thing..

 

 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6978

12/03/12 5:46:09 PM#11


Originally posted by Aragon100

Dedicated crafters would bring more subscribers and a larger variety of players, not just the PvP interested ones.


Unlikely, since game would be still centered on PVP with little space for crafters.


To attract more players, they would need to shift from their core design which they are apparently not going to do, considering upcoming re-launch.


It is better for Aventruine to focus on things they can improve and crafting and economy is far beyond their capability - resources and ability wise.

Be happy they are not trying to make crafting and economy worthwhile, it would be a disaster and lots of wasted development time.

  itchmon

Elite Member

Joined: 1/21/07
Posts: 1548

12/03/12 5:49:35 PM#12
Originally posted by 123443211234

 

Crafting is just one of those things that is there for everyone to use and "eventually" max, its not designed nor intended for its own playstyle and if you try to only craft you will fail miserably and quit the game in disgust without ever actually even playing the game.

On top of all this one of the core principles of DF is that anything in the world is craftable by anyone, making crafting much more restrictive would only hurt this philosophy.

 

TLDR:  Trying to implement crafting restrictions is a silly waste of everyone's time.

i dont agree with your summation.

 

if everything is crafted then this tells me that the game,at least partly, centers around crafting (and, therefore, resource gathering... which in my opinion should ALSO be restricted like combat roles).  In fact it kind of centers around crafting nearly as much as it centers around pvp... because everyone in that 50 v 50 pvp extravaganza doing that siege is wearing crafted gear, and fighting over (unless i'm mistaken) crafted property.

 

Eve is the exact same way.  it is a pvp game but also a crafting and mining game.  the crafters do not get along with the pvpers (mostly) but one needs the other.  if not for losing stuff in pvp nobody would need to craft, if nobody crafted no-one would have things to pvp with.

 

CANT WE ALL JUS GET ALONG

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  Cecropia

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Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3274

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12/03/12 6:17:38 PM#13
Originally posted by itchmon
Originally posted by 123443211234

 Crafting is just one of those things that is there for everyone to use and "eventually" max, its not designed nor intended for its own playstyle and if you try to only craft you will fail miserably and quit the game in disgust without ever actually even playing the game.

On top of all this one of the core principles of DF is that anything in the world is craftable by anyone, making crafting much more restrictive would only hurt this philosophy.

 

TLDR:  Trying to implement crafting restrictions is a silly waste of everyone's time.

i dont agree with your summation.

 

if everything is crafted then this tells me that the game,at least partly, centers around crafting (and, therefore, resource gathering... which in my opinion should ALSO be restricted like combat roles).  In fact it kind of centers around crafting nearly as much as it centers around pvp... because everyone in that 50 v 50 pvp extravaganza doing that siege is wearing crafted gear, and fighting over (unless i'm mistaken) crafted property.

 

Eve is the exact same way.  it is a pvp game but also a crafting and mining game.  the crafters do not get along with the pvpers (mostly) but one needs the other.  if not for losing stuff in pvp nobody would need to craft, if nobody crafted no-one would have things to pvp with.

 

CANT WE ALL JUS GET ALONG

Exactly. CCP has created the perfect symbiotic relationship between the PVPers and the PVEers. It's a bit strange that so few studios have attempted to implement a similar system when it works so well. I know the folks at AV are aware of EVE, what I do not know, is why they ignore the fact that they have a fantastic core game that would flow beautifully with EVE's system. It would add so much to their game and bring in many more subs. It's too bad.

 

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"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  Aragon100

Elite Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 2224

 
OP  12/04/12 12:25:12 AM#14
Originally posted by Gdemami

 


Originally posted by Aragon100

 

Dedicated crafters would bring more subscribers and a larger variety of players, not just the PvP interested ones.


 

Unlikely, since game would be still centered on PVP with little space for crafters.


To attract more players, they would need to shift from their core design which they are apparently not going to do, considering upcoming re-launch.


It is better for Aventruine to focus on things they can improve and crafting and economy is far beyond their capability - resources and ability wise.

Be happy they are not trying to make crafting and economy worthwhile, it would be a disaster and lots of wasted development time.

UO was PvP centered and managed well to implement dedicated crafters and loads of other features.

There is no problem adding a crafting system worth the name and it would not affect the PvP arena.

Game would not change it¨s core design, what do you mean?

 

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2237

12/04/12 12:32:41 AM#15
Originally posted by Aragon100

After the interview there have been 1 topic dominating Darkfall forums, should everyone be able to craft everything or should it be restrictions?

 

Best poll so far inform us that players want restictions and it is a landslide win - 

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=334728

 

Dedicated crafters would bring more subscribers and a larger variety of players, not just the PvP interested ones. A ingame economy would be another good side-effect. The game of today will have a very limited economy at best.

 

I believe Aventurine didnt realize the negativ effect their choice of keeping a failed crafting system.

Lets hope we will see some major changes to the crafting system in near future. It need developer priority.

 aAventurine has always seemed very content with their somewhat limited  full loot pvp nitch. I dioubt they will change to make the game more crafter centric which really would hurt some of the pvp'ers as not all could crafter everthing.

  Face it your barking up the wrong tree . i might not agree with Aventurine on alot of things but at least they have always held true to thier vision of thier game. They are not out to become a large game developer, by all actions and words they are just as happy to keep plugging along with a mere 10k players as long as they have enough money coming in to stay afloat.

 

  winter

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 2237

12/04/12 12:48:52 AM#16
Originally posted by itchmon
Originally posted by 123443211234

 

Crafting is just one of those things that is there for everyone to use and "eventually" max, its not designed nor intended for its own playstyle and if you try to only craft you will fail miserably and quit the game in disgust without ever actually even playing the game.

On top of all this one of the core principles of DF is that anything in the world is craftable by anyone, making crafting much more restrictive would only hurt this philosophy.

 

TLDR:  Trying to implement crafting restrictions is a silly waste of everyone's time.

i dont agree with your summation.

 

if everything is crafted then this tells me that the game,at least partly, centers around crafting (and, therefore, resource gathering... which in my opinion should ALSO be restricted like combat roles).  In fact it kind of centers around crafting nearly as much as it centers around pvp... because everyone in that 50 v 50 pvp extravaganza doing that siege is wearing crafted gear, and fighting over (unless i'm mistaken) crafted property.

 

Eve is the exact same way.  it is a pvp game but also a crafting and mining game.  the crafters do not get along with the pvpers (mostly) but one needs the other.  if not for losing stuff in pvp nobody would need to craft, if nobody crafted no-one would have things to pvp with.

 

CANT WE ALL JUS GET ALONG

 The game is not (even partialy) centeered around crafting. It is centered around full loot, and atht no item should mean very much that losing it should take away from free for all PVP. Restricting crafters restricts the easy replacement of items lost in PVP. your trying to put a whole new slant on things that isn't there and thats the developers don't want.

  Simply put the games about moments where you can say "Cool I beat that skilled player or I took on 3 at once and survived!", NOT moments of "Oh My god I better not take any chances and lose my +3 gold pants cratfer xxx made me for a arm and a leg."

   Eve and Df are 2 different games. Eve has secure areas where players and farmers can go and AFK mine to there hearts content. Unless one really needs  something in low sec, mining and craftering is really for those too busy reading a book or watching tv to really play. DF doesn't ave such safe zones for such crap

  thinktank001

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/13/08
Posts: 1859

12/04/12 12:49:40 AM#17
Originally posted by Aragon100

After the interview there have been 1 topic dominating Darkfall forums, should everyone be able to craft everything or should it be restrictions?

 

Best poll so far inform us that players want restictions and it is a landslide win - 

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=334728

 

Dedicated crafters would bring more subscribers and a larger variety of players, not just the PvP interested ones. A ingame economy would be another good side-effect. The game of today will have a very limited economy at best.

 

I believe Aventurine didnt realize the negativ effect their choice of keeping a failed crafting system.

Lets hope we will see some major changes to the crafting system in near future. It need developer priority.

 

No, you are wrong.   DF was never meant to be a MMORPG.   It's design has always been about an online RPG that revolves around PvP.    Every game mechanic is designed to get the player back into the " fast paced " PvP.    

 

This is why crafting and the economy will never be prevalent in DF.

This is why they wanted to add limbo to DF.  

This is why in development it was called DF Arena 2010.

 

Players need to face the facts.   DF:UW was not designed to be a MMORPG.  

  phantomghost

Novice Member

Joined: 11/05/11
Posts: 635

"Kill me, my man kills you, that's how you lose."

12/04/12 12:55:53 AM#18

I do not think the ability to craft anything without restrictions is that big of a deal.

 

Most games seem to have a similar trend amongst the playerbase.

 

A select few will be hardcore crafters, they will be the crafters who produce most of the equipment and yield a high profit. 

Most will craft only when they have time for it, using spare resources to craft every now and then.

Many will not even touch crafting because a large portion of people are not crafters.

 

Regardless, the highly dedicated crafters will exceed the rest. 

 

Now I do think limiting crafting can be useful, but it is not the major deal that people make it out to be.

 

The major deal is how bad the mahirim look like creatures from the Tv Show Grimm... jk (but they do look like grimm creatures)

 

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  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

12/04/12 1:50:04 AM#19
Originally posted by thinktank001
Originally posted by Aragon100

After the interview there have been 1 topic dominating Darkfall forums, should everyone be able to craft everything or should it be restrictions?

 

Best poll so far inform us that players want restictions and it is a landslide win - 

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=334728

 

Dedicated crafters would bring more subscribers and a larger variety of players, not just the PvP interested ones. A ingame economy would be another good side-effect. The game of today will have a very limited economy at best.

 

I believe Aventurine didnt realize the negativ effect their choice of keeping a failed crafting system.

Lets hope we will see some major changes to the crafting system in near future. It need developer priority.

 

No, you are wrong.   DF was never meant to be a MMORPG.   It's design has always been about an online RPG that revolves around PvP.    Every game mechanic is designed to get the player back into the " fast paced " PvP.    

 

This is why crafting and the economy will never be prevalent in DF.

This is why they wanted to add limbo to DF.  

This is why in development it was called DF Arena 2010.

 

Players need to face the facts.   DF:UW was not designed to be a MMORPG.  

What are you talking about? "Its an Online RGP, but not a MMORPG???" Given the scope of many other MMOs, 10000 concurrent players seems rather massive.      I fail to see how DF being PVP centric has any impact on it being a MMORPG, its still a large number of people interacting in a virtual world.

  DarthRaiden

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4547

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

12/04/12 2:14:52 AM#20

Darkfall is on par with WoW regarding crafting.

 

DF set out to offer a better gameplay..didn't it ?

The next bottom to hit would be APB ....

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