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Guild Wars 2

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PvP  » WvWv W is pointless.

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47 posts found
  Serenes

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  12/03/12 8:48:04 AM#21
Originally posted by motmot84
Hmm... Don't know why OP is so upset... I'm from CD BTW. Before, we were like rank 6 or rank 5 and now were in rank 10. We came down to rank 10 because week by week we lost. But I didn't complain. It's life, you get ups and downs sometimes. if you're behind Meguma then your server must really suck or just unorganized because Meguma zergs are comparable to zombie swarms. You get what I mean?

I'm not that upset, but its annoying and its a broken system, tell me what is not broken about the ability to switch to the winning team? EB was doing very well in the past week crawling upwards in rank until we started losing then people started jumping ship to the winning teams, we went from full server to a high in the past 2 weeks, its broken plain and simple. I have heard these stories from all the forums "My server did good until we did not then i switched." so at the first sight of losing the casuals of this game will jump ship. CD has MANY MANY more players on at anytime I can record you a video and show you this to be fact. My friend switched just so we could see the sizes of the zergs, CD were roughly 2x bigger then EB at 5:00PM EST last week when I was logging on I got queue for WvWvW, but this week not even once.

  Serelisk

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/11
Posts: 845

12/03/12 9:52:44 AM#22
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by motmot84
Hmm... Don't know why OP is so upset... I'm from CD BTW. Before, we were like rank 6 or rank 5 and now were in rank 10. We came down to rank 10 because week by week we lost. But I didn't complain. It's life, you get ups and downs sometimes. if you're behind Meguma then your server must really suck or just unorganized because Meguma zergs are comparable to zombie swarms. You get what I mean?

Well, too be fair this is a LOT of server hopping. I'm over on FA and one of the larger guilds just had a bunch of drama because they were going to switch to a winning server.

However, the other guilds all called them out on it, and I think they decided against that decision.

You're right, though. A lot of people are using the problems of WvW as an excuse for why they are losing. A lot of it really does come down to skill and superior strategy. I've had my zergs get taken out by a smaller group of well coordinated players, just as I have been that group of small coordinated players taking out massive zergs.

I don't go whining about it when we lose, and even when we lose because we get night capped repeatedly, we play for the situations we can control, and to see how well we can do with what we have. I'd like to see Anet do more to cut down on server hopping, but a lot of the more organized guilds are fairly set on their individual servers. It's mostly the PUG / zerg guilds that are hopping to win, instead of trying to become better players.

Not to go off-topic but just to clarify because I'm an officer in GODS atm; that's not what happened.

Within that guild which had reached critical capacity of 1000 members across 2 guilds led by one person, we ran  specialized groups of very good PvP'ers. They were doing small group work at very very high level PvP play within WvW and could wipe zergs of 30 with only 10 guys. Most of them have commander titles and were administrators in the guild. 

Where the confusion is: In combination with the pug's (unorganzied randoms in WvW) poor respect for commanders and overall willingness to listen to directives in the WvW maps (they were attacking wurms while all our objectives were being taken, regardless of commanders begging them to come and join the actual fight), many of the spec ops commanders got sick of the server and transferred off, leaving the guild in the process. This was at most 15 people and they picked the server they did because they had friends on it already. 

[GODS] was never going to leave Fort Aspenwood as our entire mission is to help build it. The entire reason why we mass recruited was to train pugs so that they become better WvW players, as opposed to some other guilds which have inaccessible and.or stringent application process. Downloading a specific free voice chat program is an absolute requirement to join the guild, however, so you can be part of the organized forces. And this is how I got started; I didn't have a guild and didn't know what I was doign but saw [GODS] rolling in a large and tightly grouped force accomplishing things on the map. 

The leader of the guild has every reason to want to leave because many randoms, trolls, and even known commanders treat him and his guild with disdain and disrespect, but it doesn't stop us from knowing what the focus of World versus World should be. That is: building the server up instead of just hopping on to a winning team.

Which brings me to the relavant part of my post: It is unfortunate that there's still the easy ability for people to transfer with little restriction to WvW, but there's (at least on Fort Aspenwood) a clear focus on making our different servers better. This is why some of the biggest and best guilds on the server (e.g. GODS, BT, PTX, etc.) have worked much harder strengthening their coordination efforts and in the last week a community site has gone up out of sheer necessity. If you were in Tarnished Coast borderlands last night, you also might've noticed that epic siege that [GODS] and [ULTD] did on fully manned, fully upgraded, and fully supplied keep Dreadfall Bay. It went over 2 hours and required a ton of coordination between our two guilds. This is what inspires me in WvW, that we can accomplish great things if we put the effort in. 

With all that being said, I think on many of the mid-tier servers through to the top tier, there's a very large effort being made by the main commanders to organize their forces on a macro scale. To make sure that they have scouts on their borderlands ready to rally a counter force should it be attacked. To make sure each guild's commanders know the movements of each other's forces. This is meta-gaming at it's finest and many of these people invest large quantities of time and effort into WvW. Why do they do this? Not because of shinies, not because of artificial material rewards in a video game. They do it BECAUSE IT'S FUN. This game is about FUN. And part of that fun is server pride and the feeling of community and comraderie when you siege a keep for two hours employing the best tactics between two or more guilds or making sure your server's coverage is at it's best. This is why I love my home server of Fort Aspenwood. And if you're honestly looking to play WvW for shinies and individual achievement, then you are indeed playing the game wrong. :)


  Serelisk

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/11
Posts: 845

12/03/12 10:12:02 AM#23
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Biggest problem is no rivalry due to no names, the server pairings swapping around and players hopping servers.

You need good enemies just as much as good friends in this style of pvp.

It's why planetside 2 does it better imo.

No rivalry:

I don't think this has anything to do with it. How's that a problem? Because you can't go call someone out on the forums and ask for a rematch or a duel? The focus of World versus World is NOT on an individual basis. It is a community effort. That's the point! If you're playing WvW to seek personal glory, then you are indeed playing it wrong. Not to say that you can not make a name for yourself, but it won't be in the position of individual fame. It will be because you were instrumental to helping the server you are representing when you fight for them in the battlefield to succeed. 

Also, i'm PRETTY SURE there's a rivalry between Jade Quarry and Stormbluff Isles, considering they've been matched up for weeks now at the highest tier of WvW gameplay and are still relatively close in points. This argument just makes no sense. 

Server pairing swapping around:

I can guarantee no one would like World versus World if the first few matchups they had never moved. This would require a structural overhaul including removing the points system and other key things to have a match up where you face the same two world for eternity. For example, Fort Aspenwood blew Tier 4 servers out of the water. We're talking 500k+ v sub-20k v sub-20k. You want to be on those other servers for eternity...? 

Player hopping servers:

This is the onyl real problem in WvW as I currently see it and is NOT intended in the design of the gameplay. Guesting, for whatever reaosn, hasn't been implemented yet and they have yet to put anymore limiting factors on WvW such as: if you transfer worlds, you're not barred from participating int eh current matchup. 

I can't comment on planetside 2 as I've neer played it, however, the system of GW2 is based around server pride and this includes PvE players as well. We're fighting for the whole and if that means the casuals that only level alts or the hardcore PvE'ers who do fractals everyday... that's the fun of World versus World. 


  Serelisk

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/11
Posts: 845

12/03/12 10:21:17 AM#24
Originally posted by muffins89
the lack of factions makes it even more pointless than it would be.

I'm curious what the perspective is of that. 

The different worlds serve the same function as a faction: they are a team. That is the baseline, and the fundamental principle of GW2. Teamwork over individual accomplishment and the building of intraserver communities. The guild Destiny's Edge is a microcosm of this.

Not everyone needs distinct races or some heavy lore based influence to get in and fight for world pride because that's not what they're into. I'm sincerely failing to understand how this and othe parts of GW2 are continuously labeled "pointless". It's a game: have fun! There's a huge social benefit to participating in World versus World too. If there's ANYTHING "meaningful" about MMO's, it's their ability to bring communities of players together and I believe GW2 has that in spades. 


  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

12/03/12 10:26:06 AM#25
Serelisk, thank you for your comments. I can see why your server is on top.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  SQTO

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 165

12/03/12 11:10:30 AM#26

The main reason why I quit playing was because how they allowed transfers in WvW.  Everytime a lot of people would transfer to the winning side and then have one server against two almost empty servers. 

 

 

  Niburu

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/12
Posts: 302

12/03/12 11:16:54 AM#27
Thats why i wait for Darkfall Unholy Wars and similar games in which taking stuff has a meaning
  boxsnd

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/12
Posts: 382

12/03/12 11:22:40 AM#28
Originally posted by Vladamyre
According to Anet some of their developers played Dark Age of Camelot, and since it was their favorite mmo for pvp they designed their WvWvW system off of good ol DAoC. The bad part is that they put in too much keep and tower crap and crammed it into a tiny zone. The frontiers of DAoC were huge, with only 7 keeps to take, not talking about the relic keeps. They should've only put in about 1/3 of the amount of stuff to take, and made the zones at least 5 times their current size. It seems that for people to say they modelled it after DAoC how could they get it so wrong?

I'd love it if it was like DAoC. DAoC RvR was focused on killing enemy players, competitive 8v8, etc. WvW is mindless zerging and attacking keeps. It gets old real quick.

DAoC - Excalibur & Camlann

  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2375

12/03/12 11:29:17 AM#29
WvW is what it is.  It is just meant for a quick romp with instant action.  If people are expecting otherwise then they are sorely mistaken.  If you're wanting more meaningful conquest experiences then you need to play different games, like Darkfall.
  jott14

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/12
Posts: 3

12/03/12 11:35:40 AM#30
Agree on that WvW is pointlless, would be nice if they replace it or add a Guild vs Guild, would be nice to have guild wars in GW2
  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

12/03/12 11:36:20 AM#31
Originally posted by bcbully

Yeah they kinda messed up with the transfer thing. 

 

No factions, no names, easy transfers = no hatred,  no rivalries, no competitiveness. On top of that, no ranks, or gear to get. 

 

The realization hit me about 3 weeks in. The only point seemed to be a gold sink. While under level 80, the gem shop is constantly tugging especially in WvW.

interesting. that might have been the reason I didn't like the game.

Zero emotions, never felt challenged, never angry, no sense of accomplishment, no motivation to keep playing.

Overall a lukewarm walk in a nice looking themepark, but will that be enough?

  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6501

"I fight so you don't have to."

12/03/12 11:37:44 AM#32
Originally posted by azzamasin
Playing video games is pretty pointless but this is something we do to have fun.

Having fun is not pointless and WvWvW is pointless, ergo it is not fun. Atleast not after the novelty wears of, so then the fun lies in the novelty.

  DavisFlight

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/25/12
Posts: 2406

12/03/12 11:38:25 AM#33
They've gotten closer to DAoC RvR than any MMO in a long time, and even so they missed the entire core behind why DAoC's RvR worked so well. Shame.
  SQTO

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 165

12/03/12 11:39:52 AM#34
Originally posted by Badaboom
WvW is what it is.  It is just meant for a quick romp with instant action.  If people are expecting otherwise then they are sorely mistaken.  If you're wanting more meaningful conquest experiences then you need to play different games, like Darkfall.

GW2 = please dont expect much from this game.      really ?

  Serelisk

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/11
Posts: 845

12/03/12 11:50:37 AM#35
Honestly, from how you people describe DAoC's RvR, it sounds worse than GW2's WvW by an order of magnitudes. I haven't played it but if you all play massive scale PvP for the individual fame and showboating abilities, then that game type misses the mark of fun gameplay to me. But hey, we all have opinions. 


  SQTO

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 165

12/03/12 11:53:19 AM#36
Originally posted by Serelisk
Honestly, from how you people describe DAoC's RvR, it sounds worse than GW2's WvW by an order of magnitudes. I haven't played it but if you all play massive scale PvP for the individual fame and showboating abilities, then that game type misses the mark of fun gameplay to me. But hey, we all have opinions. 

yea I dont understand the fame/show boating part. However having rivals ( individuals and guilds )  can be very fun in pvp.

  Badaboom

Elite Member

Joined: 10/04/10
Posts: 2375

12/03/12 11:57:04 AM#37
Originally posted by SQTO
Originally posted by Badaboom
WvW is what it is.  It is just meant for a quick romp with instant action.  If people are expecting otherwise then they are sorely mistaken.  If you're wanting more meaningful conquest experiences then you need to play different games, like Darkfall.

GW2 = please dont expect much from this game.      really ?

I didn't say that.  To summarize I said it is super casual, instant gratification fun.

  Serenes

Novice Member

Joined: 5/18/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  12/03/12 12:03:25 PM#38
Originally posted by Serelisk
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by motmot84
Hmm... Don't know why OP is so upset... I'm from CD BTW. Before, we were like rank 6 or rank 5 and now were in rank 10. We came down to rank 10 because week by week we lost. But I didn't complain. It's life, you get ups and downs sometimes. if you're behind Meguma then your server must really suck or just unorganized because Meguma zergs are comparable to zombie swarms. You get what I mean?

Well, too be fair this is a LOT of server hopping. I'm over on FA and one of the larger guilds just had a bunch of drama because they were going to switch to a winning server.

However, the other guilds all called them out on it, and I think they decided against that decision.

You're right, though. A lot of people are using the problems of WvW as an excuse for why they are losing. A lot of it really does come down to skill and superior strategy. I've had my zergs get taken out by a smaller group of well coordinated players, just as I have been that group of small coordinated players taking out massive zergs.

I don't go whining about it when we lose, and even when we lose because we get night capped repeatedly, we play for the situations we can control, and to see how well we can do with what we have. I'd like to see Anet do more to cut down on server hopping, but a lot of the more organized guilds are fairly set on their individual servers. It's mostly the PUG / zerg guilds that are hopping to win, instead of trying to become better players.

Not to go off-topic but just to clarify because I'm an officer in GODS atm; that's not what happened.

Within that guild which had reached critical capacity of 1000 members across 2 guilds led by one person, we ran  specialized groups of very good PvP'ers. They were doing small group work at very very high level PvP play within WvW and could wipe zergs of 30 with only 10 guys. Most of them have commander titles and were administrators in the guild. 

Where the confusion is: In combination with the pug's (unorganzied randoms in WvW) poor respect for commanders and overall willingness to listen to directives in the WvW maps (they were attacking wurms while all our objectives were being taken, regardless of commanders begging them to come and join the actual fight), many of the spec ops commanders got sick of the server and transferred off, leaving the guild in the process. This was at most 15 people and they picked the server they did because they had friends on it already. 

[GODS] was never going to leave Fort Aspenwood as our entire mission is to help build it. The entire reason why we mass recruited was to train pugs so that they become better WvW players, as opposed to some other guilds which have inaccessible and.or stringent application process. Downloading a specific free voice chat program is an absolute requirement to join the guild, however, so you can be part of the organized forces. And this is how I got started; I didn't have a guild and didn't know what I was doign but saw [GODS] rolling in a large and tightly grouped force accomplishing things on the map. 

The leader of the guild has every reason to want to leave because many randoms, trolls, and even known commanders treat him and his guild with disdain and disrespect, but it doesn't stop us from knowing what the focus of World versus World should be. That is: building the server up instead of just hopping on to a winning team.

Which brings me to the relavant part of my post: It is unfortunate that there's still the easy ability for people to transfer with little restriction to WvW, but there's (at least on Fort Aspenwood) a clear focus on making our different servers better. This is why some of the biggest and best guilds on the server (e.g. GODS, BT, PTX, etc.) have worked much harder strengthening their coordination efforts and in the last week a community site has gone up out of sheer necessity. If you were in Tarnished Coast borderlands last night, you also might've noticed that epic siege that [GODS] and [ULTD] did on fully manned, fully upgraded, and fully supplied keep Dreadfall Bay. It went over 2 hours and required a ton of coordination between our two guilds. This is what inspires me in WvW, that we can accomplish great things if we put the effort in. 

With all that being said, I think on many of the mid-tier servers through to the top tier, there's a very large effort being made by the main commanders to organize their forces on a macro scale. To make sure that they have scouts on their borderlands ready to rally a counter force should it be attacked. To make sure each guild's commanders know the movements of each other's forces. This is meta-gaming at it's finest and many of these people invest large quantities of time and effort into WvW. Why do they do this? Not because of shinies, not because of artificial material rewards in a video game. They do it BECAUSE IT'S FUN. This game is about FUN. And part of that fun is server pride and the feeling of community and comraderie when you siege a keep for two hours employing the best tactics between two or more guilds or making sure your server's coverage is at it's best. This is why I love my home server of Fort Aspenwood. And if you're honestly looking to play WvW for shinies and individual achievement, then you are indeed playing the game wrong. :)

I agree that the game is about fun, but why should I even join if I know its going to be like walking to a slaughter? I've tried leading my group, but when my group is 1/4 the size of the other group its just never going to be any fun. I played for 5 straight hours yesterday taking bases just to have them taken right back as soon as I lead my group to defend or attack some where else.  Numbers play a huge role in MMOs and yes 1 guy may take on 5 and win, but he will never beat 10.

  Serelisk

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/11
Posts: 845

12/03/12 12:20:20 PM#39
I agree that server transfers are making server balance incredibly frustrating to many. And we can fault A Net for that, but its not an intended part of the game design and is only for now so its not a problem inherent in the game type design. My issue is with people who throw around that awfully meaningless buzzword "meaningful". Sorry about the typing, on my phone lol


  loulaki

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/20/11
Posts: 789

12/04/12 8:53:22 AM#40
Originally posted by bcbully

Yeah they kinda messed up with the transfer thing. 

 

No factions, no names, easy transfers = no hatred,  no rivalries, no competitiveness. On top of that, no ranks, or gear to get. 

 

The realization hit me about 3 weeks in. The only point seemed to be a gold sink. While under level 80, the gem shop is constantly tugging especially in WvW.

that

 

the WvWvW needs the emchanics which allow the players to create lore !

 

maybe the transfers shall close, maybe there shall be a visual rank next to player name...

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