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General Discussion  » What bugs me about GW2 how it's combat makes me feel weak

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92 posts found
  meddyck

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/08
Posts: 1130

12/03/12 5:28:27 AM#21
Agree with OP. On my elementalist when playing solo (happened a lot the last month because most middle level zones are deserted of players), I was basically forced to use 2 pets and a lot of kiting to kill same level mobs and complete events. Not exactly the playstyle I envisioned when I started the class. The game is designed for groups or better yet zergs of players taking on events and solo combat suffers as a result.

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  korent1991

Elite Member

Joined: 5/01/09
Posts: 1405

12/03/12 5:40:33 AM#22
Originally posted by Elikal

I REALLY wanted to like this game. Seriously. Wonderful world, nice setting... so many good ideas in the details. But it appals me. I just CAN NOT play it. I tried all classes, but everytime I feel like a stupid dork. I fumble aroud and nothing, nothing works out. I keep dying way too much. Guardian, Elementalist, Thief, Ranger. Tried them all and ... this game is.... just too difficult for me. It OVERWHELMS me with rolling, and flipping around and everything.

*sob* :((

 

Originally posted by Roxtarr
I play a warrior and bad guys melt pretty fast for me.  I really only have to dodge on rare occasion (except dungeons)

I played Warrior to 80. So yeah. But every other class. Simply doesn't work.

Thief, Ele: ONE HIT killed.

Ranger: enemy players IGNORE pet and TWO HIT KILL

Necro: stupid mass of useless pets

Guardian: Only close combat works, so root root root and DED

Mesmer halfway works, but I never see it does any damage. I just don't see I make much impact. @__@

 

This game has combat just... wrong. Well, at least for me. I really would like to like it, but is simply PWNS ME. In GW2 game defeats me. In WOW or LOTRO or EQ2, people have to STAND to fight. Here they can RUN and fight, and thats just one thing too much for me to handle.

So this shows you have no idea what you're talking about, really...

Ranger can be played rather easy and it's not that easy to kill a ranger if he has his weapons set up right to suit his traits.

I'm playing a ranger as a main and it rocks in PvE and W3 (PvP I don't play so much but it's good as well, only difference is you have to be more tanky here since your pet only serves for additional condition damage - nothing more).

Guardian is hard to kill if you know how to play it. It's one of the tankiest classes in GW2... There is more than a few guardians in my guild which can just stand against a boss and dps him without taking much damage.. But it requires a lot of skill.

etc. etc...

If you feel weak it's because your skills/traits/weapons don't support each other good enough.. Consider changing a few things to make your build coherent. I know I was feeling weak with my ranger at first when I hit 80... But after a while some things became clearer and it was easy to setup a right build for my play style. :)

"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------

  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

12/03/12 5:46:47 AM#23

Play the mesmer that you like half, because i assume that you also only take it to half of max. And the mesmer first begins to shine after lvl 40 when it gets its traits lines working for it.

And with clone when dodging trait, you will get so much respite that my quess is that your relationship to the game will change again

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4660

12/03/12 5:52:47 AM#24
Originally posted by Elikal

Tbh, GW2 did a LOT of things good, but what it DIDNT do good is combat and classes. I never felt so WEAK in any other MMO before. When I am not lolcoptering around the mob like a frightened rabbit, I am DED DED DED. I hate that about GW2. The idea that you CAN evade attacks, which is per se good, transformed into you MUST evade every attack. It became another MUST from an idea that was good as OPTION. And so I spent my time running around like a scared rabbit and feeling very, very unheroic. That really nags me in GW2.

Just my 2ct about combat. :/

Really depends on what class you're playing, and how. That's the problem w/ more skill based games, if you're used to ones that are more gear-oriented. You can't really rely on a class itself to automatically make you strong.

Aside from bosses & PvP, I find myself rarely having to dodge, tbh. Many of the classes have built in evasion with their attacks. Some of the other classes can literally just soak up hits and not give 2 craps. The most obvious of these would be guardian / necro.

It really does come down to how you play. If you want to feel heroic, then build yourself up to actually be heroic. Personally, I find it way more satisfying when i feel heroic as a direct result of my own actions, and not because i have the magic underpants of +5 overpoweredness. Take a hard, critical look at how you've built your character. Ask yourself what your character's weaknesses are, what their strengths are, and how you could perhaps balance the two more effectively.

For example, on my warrior, he's mostly glass cannon, but a few points into defense has made the difference for him between being the guy on my team that constantly runs in and dies and the guy who can take hits like a champ without having to worry too much about it. Some fights I can even get away w/ just standing on the boss spamming 100 blades, and it's really satisfying to down a boss in a few seconds after only a few 25k dmg 100blades procs.

Heck, I've also had quite a few fights where I'm basically taking all the hits for the group as my ele. It's all in how you play.

 

  Alders

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/10
Posts: 1653

I cannot fiddle but I can make a great state of a small city.

12/03/12 6:00:22 AM#25

You can't expect to go into every encounter with the same mindset as you're probably used to OP.  Mobs have different special attacks, some of which are really unforgiving if you expect to just stand there and dps.

What mobs were you fighting?

What weapons were you using?

 

I personally enjoy the fact that every mob my level can hand me my ass at any time if I'm slacking.  I understand that a lot of people won't though.

  Maggon

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/14/06
Posts: 306

12/03/12 6:02:46 AM#26

I got a 80 warrior, and a few other higher leveled characters, where as I do also find the elementalist extremely squishy, I'm not really sure as to how a dual dagger, or atleast main hand dagger Elementalist is supposed to be viable, as the DPS isnt really enough at close range, where you'd see a warrior with a GS (pure dps and lots of mobility) just tearing through things, though I guess warriors might be a bit OP in that sense.

 

I really love the game and the combat, though some things do make me wonder.

 

Same for mesmers, and AoE, or fighting multiple enemies, can take quite a while solo xD

  alkarionlog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/09
Posts: 997

12/03/12 6:47:26 AM#27

here is the deal with gs you guys always say they have more mobility, but in the end gs roots me the most.

 

i have a warrior 80 and I main a rifle i'm never standing, i'm always moving unless i'm on my lazy break so I just stay there walking back, GW is not like others if you don't dodge or know how and when use your skills you will not win, and if you rage every single time you lose I guess games is not for you.

 

and that is on any game or you learn to play by the rules to win or you will not win complain about it will not solve it

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  Master10K

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/18/10
Posts: 3086

12/03/12 7:51:30 AM#28
Originally posted by Maggon

I got a 80 warrior, and a few other higher leveled characters, where as I do also find the elementalist extremely squishy, I'm not really sure as to how a dual dagger, or atleast main hand dagger Elementalist is supposed to be viable, as the DPS isnt really enough at close range, where you'd see a warrior with a GS (pure dps and lots of mobility) just tearing through things, though I guess warriors might be a bit OP in that sense.

I really love the game and the combat, though some things do make me wonder.

Same for mesmers, and AoE, or fighting multiple enemies, can take quite a while solo xD

I play primarily a Dual Dagger Elementalist and when built correctly, I can handle pretty much any veteran mob in the game, solo. I also can take a fair amount of damage, with my measely 13,000hp pool and in full Power/Precision/Crit dmg gear. Why, because I'm built for it.

If you build yourself to deals tons of damage, without thought as to the damage you will take, then you are simply doing it wrong. So try my Dual Daggger Ele Spec. Feel free to go full berserkers gear with it too (though make sure you have about 400 healing power from jewels). You'll see just how ridiculous the Ele's survivability can be.

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/03/12 8:02:32 AM#29

I solo'd a veteran Karka on my mesmer and won. I did not feel weak. Yes, it took time, and yes that bugger was capable of dropping me rather quickly if I let it... but I didn't. Could I do this on another profession right now? I doubt it... I don't know them well enough. They say the combat is easy to learn and difficult to master and there's truth in that. You can learn any of them and quickly become adequate. But once you really, and I mean really, get the flow down, master the dance, swap the weapons at need and use your special abilities (I loves me some clones!) to full effect then and only then will you realize that yes, you were weak.

 

There was mention of being in the thirties in WvW and getting rolled by a thief. Most likely the thief was an 80 and quite good at being a thief. You should realize that this is to be expected. You're at a noticable disadvantage in WvW not only due to gear but due to skills, and skill. 

Oderint, dum metuant.

  User Deleted
12/03/12 8:03:22 AM#30
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by RizelStar
Originally posted by SteeJanz

I disagree and I certainly don't think standing still makes me feel any different either. 

 

I apologize for this off-topic statement but I can't help it.  I am starting to think that it was GW2 that broke up with Elikal.  I mean this sounds an awful lot like that person that can't let the one that dumped them go.  in an effort to make you feel better, I will do what any good friend would do.

Hey everyone, did you know that MMO called GW2?  It's a whore.  No really, it messed around with a bunch of my friends over at MMORPG. 

After readin the second page, I'm starting to think your on to something here.

No. The reality I must face is, that I am probably simple not good at games that require even the most remote sort of "reaction timing". I never was, and after 20 years of gaming I didnt get a TAD better at it. In Everquest reaction time didn't play any bigger role. But in "new RPGs" alas it does.

I never could solve "timed reaction puzzles" for instance either, even if my life would depend on it, there simply is a delay between eyes, brain and hands, and the moment my finger press the right button the situation has already changed.

 

That pretty much discounts any MMO for you. Even EQ1 now expects players to move. I suppose you could try Ragnarok Online. Dodging attacks is pretty standard MMO gameplay, the future isnt looking bright for games without movement either I am afraid. You might want to consider shifting your hobby to turn based RPGs.

 

  User Deleted
12/03/12 8:07:47 AM#31
Originally posted by Volkon

I solo'd a veteran Karka on my mesmer and won. I did not feel weak. Yes, it took time, and yes that bugger was capable of dropping me rather quickly if I let it... but I didn't.

 

Yeah, anyone who thinks Mesmers are weak or squishy is delusional. Mesmers can solo champs easier than any other profession, as the clones are amazing at distracting enemy AI.

With a good shatter build you can destroy players and mobs in a few seconds.

This game is all about builds. If a class seems weak, you have probably put together a bad combination of skills / traits.

Even Necromancers who I have traditionally thought weak.... I went against a crazy Necro in PvP the other day who dropped me in seconds. Keep in mind the cheapo Warrior and Thief builds cant even touch my Mesmer. But this Necro was absolutely destroying everyone using an axe. Yet everyone associates Necros as being tanky yet harmless.

  xposeidon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 393

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

12/03/12 8:13:22 AM#32
Originally posted by alkarionlog

here is the deal with gs you guys always say they have more mobility, but in the end gs roots me the most.

 

i have a warrior 80 and I main a rifle i'm never standing, i'm always moving unless i'm on my lazy break so I just stay there walking back, GW is not like others if you don't dodge or know how and when use your skills you will not win, and if you rage every single time you lose I guess games is not for you.

 

and that is on any game or you learn to play by the rules to win or you will not win complain about it will not solve it

Greatsword only has one rooting skill o.O

Anyway I respect your playstyle if you use rifle and whatever other weapon you use, I use rifle too but I usually bring my greatsword to dish out some damage because quite frankly nothing else compares to the burst damage a GS can output. Just have to know when to get close and when to stay away.

Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.

  User Deleted
12/03/12 8:13:55 AM#33
Originally posted by meddyck
Agree with OP. On my elementalist when playing solo (happened a lot the last month because most middle level zones are deserted of players), I was basically forced to use 2 pets and a lot of kiting to kill same level mobs and complete events. Not exactly the playstyle I envisioned when I started the class. The game is designed for groups or better yet zergs of players taking on events and solo combat suffers as a result.

Water / earth specced Elementalist is as tanky as any other class. In fact, there isnt a single class in the game that cant spec decently for survival.

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

12/03/12 8:21:26 AM#34

While I've seen my wife have issues with the squishiness of her ele, I've never had an issue with my necro.  With the squishier classes, it seems to drastically help if you ensure your gear is rated more for Vitality/Toughness than anything else.  What helped my wife was to make sure all of her armor and about half her accessories were rated for Vitality/Toughness and the rest spread with Power/Precision.

 

Also, move, move, move!  You don't have to necessarily dodge every attack, (seeing how the dodge mechanic works, that would be impossible anyway) but you have to move frequently.  It has taken both myself and my wife a while to incorporate moving often into our combat but it helps a lot.  Even just strafing, so you don't feel as if you're constantly running away, helps a lot.

 

This is one area where GW2 is definitely NOT like most other MMOs.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

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  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

12/03/12 8:21:29 AM#35
Originally posted by Elikal

Tbh, GW2 did a LOT of things good, but what it DIDNT do good is combat and classes. I never felt so WEAK in any other MMO before. When I am not lolcoptering around the mob like a frightened rabbit, I am DED DED DED. I hate that about GW2. The idea that you CAN evade attacks, which is per se good, transformed into you MUST evade every attack. It became another MUST from an idea that was good as OPTION. And so I spent my time running around like a scared rabbit and feeling very, very unheroic. That really nags me in GW2.

Just my 2ct about combat. :/

I guess you never played GW1. In both games every profession has a weakness (it is called balance). You need to understand that weakness in order to protect and overcome that weakness. That was the same in both games and it made for some interesting PvP - cripple a warrior and they can't DPS unless they have a bow. Switch your weapons - use dodge. There is no UBER profession in GW2 - I like that.

 

You don't have to evade every attack, you can't (there is an energy bar for that and it is above your HP meter)   -  http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Skill_bar.jpg  Need to watch that or you can't evade any more. ALso, you need to learn what the skill tells look like - example Ettins - they have a skill that knocks everything over (watch hammer twirl - it looks like that) and then the skill comes off. Evade before that happens. Or blind before that happens.  Or just move sideways befor ethat happens.

 

You avoid in other games in PvP, now you just do it in PvE. Not that hard.

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  tordurbar

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 395

12/03/12 8:22:41 AM#36
I agree with the OP - running around mobs to avoid attacks has become a must. Even on my warrior I have to do this. When I get tired of the circle jerk and go toe to toe with mobs I usually end up dead. This is really annoying when I am a level 25 in a level 15 zone. My two sons saw me playing and started laughing when I ran circles around every mob I fought. I thought this ironic becuase they do the same thing when they can in pvp in the mmos they play. Still, the annoying thing is that it has become a must tactic, something that I thought that GW2 would try and avoid.
  tordurbar

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/02/10
Posts: 395

12/03/12 8:27:01 AM#37
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Volkon

I solo'd a veteran Karka on my mesmer and won. I did not feel weak. Yes, it took time, and yes that bugger was capable of dropping me rather quickly if I let it... but I didn't.

 

Yeah, anyone who thinks Mesmers are weak or squishy is delusional. Mesmers can solo champs easier than any other profession, as the clones are amazing at distracting enemy AI.

With a good shatter build you can destroy players and mobs in a few seconds.

This game is all about builds. If a class seems weak, you have probably put together a bad combination of skills / traits.

Even Necromancers who I have traditionally thought weak.... I went against a crazy Necro in PvP the other day who dropped me in seconds. Keep in mind the cheapo Warrior and Thief builds cant even touch my Mesmer. But this Necro was absolutely destroying everyone using an axe. Yet everyone associates Necros as being tanky yet harmless.

Being one of those who believes that mesmers are squishy do you have any suggestions on where I can find specific strategies that would show me how to be a more effective solo player?  Thanks!

  Volkon

Novice Member

Joined: 9/14/10
Posts: 3813

Facts do not require fiction for balance.

12/03/12 8:35:11 AM#38
Originally posted by tordurbar
I agree with the OP - running around mobs to avoid attacks has become a must. Even on my warrior I have to do this. When I get tired of the circle jerk and go toe to toe with mobs I usually end up dead. This is really annoying when I am a level 25 in a level 15 zone. My two sons saw me playing and started laughing when I ran circles around every mob I fought. I thought this ironic becuase they do the same thing when they can in pvp in the mmos they play. Still, the annoying thing is that it has become a must tactic, something that I thought that GW2 would try and avoid.

 

What they're avoid is the "must tactic" of having to have someone else care for you while you stand there and, in a most ridiculous fashion, take blow after blow from some massive whatever as you whittle away at his kneecaps or the like. Yes, you have to move. A lot. It's a more active style of combat than the more archaic MMOs feature. You're not intended to tank, period. Sure, you have skills etc. to survive a few blows, but to try and tank... fugeddaboutit. 

 

And I love it.

 

My mesmer is as fully capable in practically any scenario as any other profession (maybe more so, but I feel pretty adept with is so far...) and that's how it should be. I shouldn't be standing there for combat. Stand and get hit, stand and do damage, stand and heal. Really... look at trinity based combat, that's all it is. Stand around and do your role. Maybe a gimmick makes you move on occassion, but as soon as you can you stop, stand, and go back to your rotation. No thanks, I've out-grown that now. I'm much more in control of my own state as well as an overseer of everyone else. I see people burning, toss them a null field. I get conditioned, well I'll simply swap those conditions for the enemy's boons, thankyouverymuch. Really... you're going to shoot those at me?! Here... right back at ya! By the way... send in the clones. 

 

So yes, you have to move. You have to accept responsibility for yourself as well as help out others as you can. This is how it should be.

Oderint, dum metuant.

  protodoxa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/29/12
Posts: 11

12/03/12 8:40:02 AM#39
Originally posted by tordurbar
Originally posted by evilastro
Originally posted by Volkon

I solo'd a veteran Karka on my mesmer and won. I did not feel weak. Yes, it took time, and yes that bugger was capable of dropping me rather quickly if I let it... but I didn't.

 

Yeah, anyone who thinks Mesmers are weak or squishy is delusional. Mesmers can solo champs easier than any other profession, as the clones are amazing at distracting enemy AI.

With a good shatter build you can destroy players and mobs in a few seconds.

This game is all about builds. If a class seems weak, you have probably put together a bad combination of skills / traits.

Even Necromancers who I have traditionally thought weak.... I went against a crazy Necro in PvP the other day who dropped me in seconds. Keep in mind the cheapo Warrior and Thief builds cant even touch my Mesmer. But this Necro was absolutely destroying everyone using an axe. Yet everyone associates Necros as being tanky yet harmless.

Being one of those who believes that mesmers are squishy do you have any suggestions on where I can find specific strategies that would show me how to be a more effective solo player?  Thanks!

Mesmers are very tough actually. The trick is using your clones as bombs, and I believe I used staff and torch + some other weapon (it's been a while). Someone else probably has more detailed advice (and maybe contradicting), but for me, once I got the hang of exploding clones and dodging (which is a timing thing), I rarely died. I don't play mesmer now, so if it's been patched since, I don't know. I am now invested in a necromancer human of all things because well I turn into a shadow and and that makes this retired shadow priest very happy.

  Ice-Queen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

12/03/12 8:42:15 AM#40

To me there wasn't one single class that stood out for me from even beta, that made me go "OMG, that's my class!" I just settled for the warrior for easy pve, and a thief for pvp.

Perhaps that's what I could never really get into the game. Every class felt like a copy or a mix of a copy of 1 or more classes I'd played before in other games. Daoc, by far had the most interesting and exciting classes, so many you had a hard time choosing.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

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