Originally posted by Khebeln

 

I think a principle easy to learn hard to master is correct. Makes diference in skill (not twich based tho)

 

PS: What part about wow was hard ? You can play it almost blindfolded. Its all about gear and mathematical stats in wow than actual player skill (apart from corect movement)

And yet another case of a Rift player upset that someone has said something incorrect about their game does the same thing to a different game.

Hardcore rading in both games take similar skill.  You cant pump off Rift's difficulty/need for skill and blast WoW without either being ignorant or dishonest.

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Khebeln

 

I think a principle easy to learn hard to master is correct. Makes diference in skill (not twich based tho)

 

PS: What part about wow was hard ? You can play it almost blindfolded. Its all about gear and mathematical stats in wow than actual player skill (apart from corect movement)

And yet another case of a Rift player upset that someone has said something incorrect about their game does the same thing to a different game.

 

Hardcore rading in both games take similar skill.  You cant pump off Rift's difficulty/need for skill and blast WoW without either being ignorant or dishonest.

Not quite true. This days in wow you dont really have builds or rotations. Everything is so simple to figure out and master. Yeah tactics and movement req same level of skill in both games. but Rift req a lot more practice to master builds or make them. There are A LOT more combinations possible as well, and a lot more builds changing depending on bosses.

What i disliked heavily in MOP was how much they dumbed the game down. I know a lot of ppl will love it, but i like options, i like to customize and twink my character. You cant do that in wow anymore.

Originally posted by Khebeln

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by Khebeln

 

I think a principle easy to learn hard to master is correct. Makes diference in skill (not twich based tho)

 

PS: What part about wow was hard ? You can play it almost blindfolded. Its all about gear and mathematical stats in wow than actual player skill (apart from corect movement)

And yet another case of a Rift player upset that someone has said something incorrect about their game does the same thing to a different game.

 

Hardcore rading in both games take similar skill.  You cant pump off Rift's difficulty/need for skill and blast WoW without either being ignorant or dishonest.

Not quite true. This days in wow you dont really have builds or rotations. Everything is so simple to figure out and master. Yeah tactics and movement req same level of skill in both games. but Rift req a lot more practice to master builds or make them. There are A LOT more combinations possible as well, and a lot more builds changing depending on bosses.

What i disliked heavily in MOP was how much they dumbed the game down. I know a lot of ppl will love it, but i like options, i like to customize and twink my character. You cant do that in wow anymore.

 

So you have raid heroics in both MoP and Cataclysm?  Nevermind, I can judge from your comments you havent.

The main thing is, if you are going to pump up the game you play, it is so much more effective to be able to do so without bashing another game.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Theocritus
     Rift tried so hard to copy WoWs gameplay that it just didnt feel right....IT felt like I was playing with stolen property.....Even some of the trades looked like they just did a copy and paste job of what WoW had already done, then changed a couple names and tried to call it their own......RIft felt like it was built to steal WoWs playerbase by making their game almost identical to WoW...Just wrong on many fronts.

This, more or less. Rift is the most shameless of all the WoW clones. I'm actually surprised they didn't get slapped with a lawsuit. Such an uninspired game. I wish they had innovated in ANY way. Even their fabled "rift" system is just a dumbed down version of Tabula Rasa's and Asheron's Call

you are joking right?wow stole off every mmo that was already out there.if you think blizzard didnt steal then you are deluding yourself.they have not come up with one thing that i can think of that was not in any previous mmo's..if anything blizzard should have been slapped with the law suit.the devs at blizzard aint got a brain cell between them.

Originally posted by kevjards

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Theocritus
     Rift tried so hard to copy WoWs gameplay that it just didnt feel right....IT felt like I was playing with stolen property.....Even some of the trades looked like they just did a copy and paste job of what WoW had already done, then changed a couple names and tried to call it their own......RIft felt like it was built to steal WoWs playerbase by making their game almost identical to WoW...Just wrong on many fronts.

This, more or less. Rift is the most shameless of all the WoW clones. I'm actually surprised they didn't get slapped with a lawsuit. Such an uninspired game. I wish they had innovated in ANY way. Even their fabled "rift" system is just a dumbed down version of Tabula Rasa's and Asheron's Call

you are joking right?wow stole off every mmo that was already out there.if you think blizzard didnt steal then you are deluding yourself.they have not come up with one thing that i can think of that was not in any previous mmo's..

group finder (not a positive thing IMO, but certanly innovative)

There is nothing hard about either game.  Thats my point - yet people will continue to talk about "difficulty" over and over.

WoW set the standard not for Theme Park, but for technicolor, 3d chat with a side game attached.  I have always said the hardest thing in WoW was getting 40 people together.  I mean 20.   I mean 10.

Then there are those that stand in fire.  OR cant figure out the dance.  We are not talking about nubs, but skilled, geared, end game raiders that AFK or are stoned/drunk, or do just suck and got carried.

Hell, in Rift we are coming across people that are 60 and "raiding" yet have not done the old world dungeons.  ITs easy to get 60 and become a "Raider", yet these same people cant dance/get out of fire to a lvl 50 cheese'ment.

We had a 60 cleric in our group random last night (I was on an alt leveling up) and we died in AB to the boss with iceburg you have to LOS or you die in one shot.  He died.  Twice.  Then berated us on how we suck and he never has to hide.  Really?  Thats the community in Rift.  Better gear = better player, even if they havent seen the fight apparently.

I play Rift daily.  We bought (two) of the Year Subs and my wife and I play frequently.  We arent in the best guilds, but our raiding guilds are ok (Harmless/Terrible Idea/Blackout), but even in these "end game" guild the amount of anger/angst towards each other is almost... humiliating.  What happened to being all wide-eyed and in awe of a game?  Now its all hate/troll to be cool.

Signed,

A gamer... still wide-eyed at where video games are at now a days even if the genre/community is angry

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by kevjards

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Theocritus
     Rift tried so hard to copy WoWs gameplay that it just didnt feel right....IT felt like I was playing with stolen property.....Even some of the trades looked like they just did a copy and paste job of what WoW had already done, then changed a couple names and tried to call it their own......RIft felt like it was built to steal WoWs playerbase by making their game almost identical to WoW...Just wrong on many fronts.

This, more or less. Rift is the most shameless of all the WoW clones. I'm actually surprised they didn't get slapped with a lawsuit. Such an uninspired game. I wish they had innovated in ANY way. Even their fabled "rift" system is just a dumbed down version of Tabula Rasa's and Asheron's Call

you are joking right?wow stole off every mmo that was already out there.if you think blizzard didnt steal then you are deluding yourself.they have not come up with one thing that i can think of that was not in any previous mmo's..

group finder (not a positive thing IMO, but certanly innovative)

 

 

ok you got me there lol..but an apalling invention.not sure if this is true,perhaps someone could clarify ..but have they just started instanced missions like lotro's skirmishes..if it is true it just says everything about blizz in a nutshell.i maybe wrong and apologise if i am..not trying to knock the game but there is nothing really that good about WOW.

I tried the expansion.

I haven't unsubscribed, but I found it to be much too grindy.  The XP curve for levels 50-60 is enormous, and the new quest system is honestly a step down from the base game.  When I played the open beta a few weeks ago, I honestly had no idea they changed the questing, so I only did the one or two quests I ran across in towns.  I finished half of the main story in the first zone and barely had a fourth of my XP bar filled towards level 51.  You have to pick up additional quests in the wilds, and if you miss them too bad.

The carnage quests are also miserable. They're sort of like bonus quests in SW:TOR.  You just kill 10-20 of a specific type of mob.  The problem is almost every mob in a zone has an attached carnage quest, and you're gonna want to do most of those in order to not fall behind the leveling curve.

I still believe Rift isn't really built for a player like me.  It's a solid game, but I find the soul system needlessly complex in an age where most MMOs are streamlining character progression, and the PvE progression has always been boring at best and frustrating at worst.

I am tempted because of the Raiding which look similar to EQ and EQ2

But the leveling is just awful...........it feels like WAR rather than WOW.

Boring and dull.

Along with EQ2, I always have fun when I play Rift and that's all that matters to me.

I'll leave the nitpicking of gameplay details to the elitist snobs who are never happy with any game.

Originally posted by kevjards

 

ok you got me there lol..but an apalling invention.not sure if this is true,perhaps someone could clarify ..but have they just started instanced missions like lotro's skirmishes..if it is true it just says everything about blizz in a nutshell.i maybe wrong and apologise if i am..not trying to knock the game but there is nothing really that good about WOW.

WoW was built off a very strong world with interesting races and well developed classes.  It has extremely fluid combat as well and just feels extremely responsive (as opposed to LOTRO, which feels clunky somehow).  It did the 'little things' far better than games like Rift did, but yes, the gameplay has grown a little stale over the years.  Still fun, but kind of been there done that (and it doesnt help that playing games like lotro, rift and swtor is extremely similar to playing wow)

As for the instanced missions, its 3 man group content thats generally more objective based than dungeons. Closer to a cross between skirmish and dungeon.

Originally posted by TheRookie
This is not WoW, you have A LOT of things you can do to level besides questing. 

1.  again, you are bashing a game to try to make your game look better.  You can quest/grind/dungeon/pvp/gather/explore/etc in WoW too.  Yeah, Rift certainly has more options but to act like WoW doesnt have multiple options too is idiotic.

2.  If you want to bring WoW into it, WoW does a better job of making their content engaing than Rift.  Carnage quests are just kill x mob quests.  Trion thought 'hey, people hate these type of qests so maybe we will make em better by not having to run back and forth to the quest giver!'  But that was poor thinking because carnage quests arent remotely engaging, not having any context to them makes them feel even more mindless than gather 20 rat testicle quests.

Originally posted by Gorwe
Let's see how good you are at this...

Riddle me this little bit: What if I dislike playing clones/undead people? How in the name of Asuryan should I get immersed?

 Easy:  You choose to be immersed. 

If you get immersed sitting at a computer playing a non-cloned game, you can choose to be immersed in a cloned game.  See, it's amazing how people have the abiltiy to feel immersed knowing they are on a computer (that's a hard thing to do)  but find it difficult to get immersed over something trivial like cloned game.  It's almost as if the excuse of immersion is not factual.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Gorwe
Let's see how good you are at this...

Riddle me this little bit: What if I dislike playing clones/undead people? How in the name of Asuryan should I get immersed?

 Easy:  You choose to be immersed. 

If you get immersed sitting at a computer playing a non-cloned game, you can choose to be immersed in a cloned game.  See, it's amazing how people have the abiltiy to feel immersed knowing they are on a computer (that's a hard thing to do)  but find it difficult to get immersed over something trivial like cloned game.  It's almost as if the excuse of immersion is not factual.

Gorwe is talking about the chracters being clones / undead. Its part of the storyline of Rift. Not calling the game a clone, although it is.

Regarding the earlier comments about WoW and Rift difficulty, they are both on par from my past experience. Both could be played easily with macros and addons. Sure you could play without them for pseudo-difficulty, but its still the same static rotation.  I like games where skill choice and split second decisions actually matter, where the skills you use are situational, not pressing the same rotation ad nauseum.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Gorwe
Let's see how good you are at this...

Riddle me this little bit: What if I dislike playing clones/undead people? How in the name of Asuryan should I get immersed?

 Easy:  You choose to be immersed. 

If you get immersed sitting at a computer playing a non-cloned game, you can choose to be immersed in a cloned game.  See, it's amazing how people have the abiltiy to feel immersed knowing they are on a computer (that's a hard thing to do)  but find it difficult to get immersed over something trivial like cloned game.  It's almost as if the excuse of immersion is not factual.

If you can't make a connection to the game world its difficult to be immersed.

If you go through past threads here you will find Rift's world often described as 'generic' or 'soulless'.  Now, not everyone feels this way but it is a very common complaint.  I think it starts with the uninspired races. Also,  Trion is more interested with making a game than a world.  Thats a negative to some but a big positive to others.  The presentation of quest dialog is also poor.  WoW says more in less words.  EQ2 is even more wordy, but at least it breaks it up with your character having a conversation.  Rift just presents you with a wall of text and there is little motivation in the writing style to not go TLDR.  They should have hired the freelance guy to write their quest text, not an MMORPG.com column.

I mentioned earlier WoW got the 'little things' right, thats exactly what this sort of thing is.  Things that may not seem like a big deal, but impact the game tremendously- for some people.  I realize there are a ton of people that dont give a damn about lore or immersion, they just want to run dungeons and rifts and warfronts and raids.  However, there are tons of people that don't even realize that the reason a game doesnt 'click' with them is because of this sort of thing.  My theory is this is the main reason why for a game as seemingly well made as Rift struggles with retention.  I think game developers severely underestimate how important the little things are.

Originally posted by evilastro

 but its still the same static rotation.  

In most cases its far from a static rotation, more of a piriority system.  And rarely do you get a chance to just sit there and perform your 'rotation' unimpeded.  

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by evilastro

 but its still the same static rotation.  

In most cases its far from a static rotation, more of a piriority system.  And rarely do you get a chance to just sit there and perform your 'rotation' unimpeded.  

Indeed, it is much more of a priority system.

... And that's where the macros come in.  I'm presently without sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the averment that such macros are inefficient or uncommon at higher levels, but that's completely irrelevant to a person who doesn't already have a max-level character.  People looking for a new PVE game don't typically already have capped out characters waiting on a server for them.

For those people--people in a position to evaluate the game from the bottom up or from somewhere on the way--the macroing is a huge turnoff.  It's the single most significant contributing factor to my decision not to re-subscribe to this game with the release of the expansion.  I just don't want to have to chew through twenty levels with two key presses.  I'll gladly grant that the soul system is a cataclysmic improvement over WOW's old talent system and a significant innovation in character customization in its own right, but that's not enough to overcome the inescapable fact that, for most players, the most efficient way to level a character from level 1 is to macro as much as you can into as few buttons as possible and spam them.  Hell, you're halfway to designing a bot for the game without knowing a lick of programming, and all you had to do was cut and paste.

Originally posted by Xhieron

Originally posted by strangiato2112

Originally posted by evilastro

 but its still the same static rotation.  

In most cases its far from a static rotation, more of a piriority system.  And rarely do you get a chance to just sit there and perform your 'rotation' unimpeded.  

Indeed, it is much more of a priority system.

... And that's where the macros come in.  I'm presently without sufficient knowledge or information to form a belief as to the truth of the averment that such macros are inefficient or uncommon at higher levels, but that's completely irrelevant to a person who doesn't already have a max-level character.  People looking for a new PVE game don't typically already have capped out characters waiting on a server for them.

 

For those people--people in a position to evaluate the game from the bottom up or from somewhere on the way--the macroing is a huge turnoff.  It's the single most significant contributing factor to my decision not to re-subscribe to this game with the release of the expansion.  I just don't want to have to chew through twenty levels with two key presses.  I'll gladly grant that the soul system is a cataclysmic improvement over WOW's old talent system and a significant innovation in character customization in its own right, but that's not enough to overcome the inescapable fact that, for most players, the most efficient way to level a character from level 1 is to macro as much as you can into as few buttons as possible and spam them.  Hell, you're halfway to designing a bot for the game without knowing a lick of programming, and all you had to do was cut and paste.

I honestly believe the macro issue is a bit overblown.  Before the recent overhaul of souls in 1.11, it was certainly true that you could macro with relative ease.  However, part of the revamp seems to have been dedicated to reducing the effectiveness of macros, with many abilities changed to make them far less suitable for it.  Most of my experience has been playing a mage and the changes basically broke 2/3rds of the macros I had been using.  I should note also that I'm not a big fan of them, either, so I typically gravitate to builds that require a bit of thinking on how to play.  Also, if macros make the game boring, there's no requirement that they be used.  I've never used any for my dot-heavy warlock build (even if they were available to me) and I've never had any content that I couldn't be effective in tackling.