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Star Wars: The Old Republic

Star Wars: The Old Republic 

General Discussion  » Unrealistic Expectations:[mod edit]

19 posts found
  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1838

 
OP  12/01/12 9:14:33 PM#1

This thread is targeted towards those people who bought SWTOR, quit SWTOR, and in threads that ask for what it'd take to bring them back or in threads that ask why they left, they state reasons of SWTOR not being similar to SWG or more sandboxy, free form, or whatever. 

First off, before all things are being considered, SWTOR was being developed by Bioware. The developers of such games as KOTOR, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect. Most notably KOTOR, since SWTOR was the successor of that game. Bioware is known for making linear story-based games where choices affect not only your alignment, but the outcome of the story. Their games are class-based, not skill-based. They're also light on the main story, with a lot of side missions.

Secondly, SWTOR is the successor to KOTOR, which are both developed by Bioware. Following the first point I made, you can see the similarities between SWTOR and KOTOR. Both games have their main stories, although SWTOR has 8 different main stories split into their respective classes, whereas KOTOR only had 1. Both games had an overabundance of side-quests. Quests that were meaningless in the grand scheme of things and were really just filler content to level you up so you could continue the story. KOTOR didn't have any great space game, housing, or anything like that, just like SWTOR.

So with Bioware admitting that SWTOR was bringing to the genre the 4th pillar: STORY, and knowing their history and etc, how could anymore expect a game much different than what we got?

Now that's not to say SWTOR doesn't have its flaws. I think SWTOR is only a shadow of the KOTOR series, because choices mattered a lot more in the SPG's, our characters were more customizable using the DnD rulesets, our characters felt way more powerful, and I don't remember reusing lines for many conversations. 

But ultimately, I find the class stories in SWTOR enjoyable, the combat fun, and grouping fun. There isn't much else to the game, at least not much I enjoy, but those little bits are worth the fee until those bits run out. 

What does that tell us? That Bioware is not meant for MMORPG's. Even SWTOR is more akin to their past games, which makes sense, than to a traditional MMORPG. SWTOR would of been far more successful if it was just a co-op/small multiplayer game, instead of having resources wasted on making it a MMORPG.

Just my 2 cents.

  MindTrigger

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/19/07
Posts: 2628

12/01/12 9:20:35 PM#2

SWTOR isn't even a good themepark specimen for starters.  If it was, it would likely have a much larger following.  Furthermore, people like me who played SWG and prefer that style of game only made up a tiny portion of SWTOR's player base.  Most of the players were themepark players who likely never even touched SWG.  SWTOR is failing on its own merit, and it has nothing to do with people who think it should have been a hybrid or sandbox.

The timing is bad too.  A lot of people are sick and tired of themeparks now, and they grow bored of them within weeks or a couple months.  I feel sorry for any developer who is making a game right  now if their plan is to compete with other themeparks.  Unless they have something mind blowing to offer, they are likely screwed.

 

A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  Masonic1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/12
Posts: 47

12/01/12 9:24:54 PM#3
Originally posted by nate1980

This thread is targeted towards those people who bought SWTOR, quit SWTOR, and in threads that ask for what it'd take to bring them back or in threads that ask why they left, they state reasons of SWTOR not being similar to SWG or more sandboxy, free form, or whatever. 

First off, before all things are being considered, SWTOR was being developed by Bioware. The developers of such games as KOTOR, Dragon Age, and Mass Effect. Most notably KOTOR, since SWTOR was the successor of that game. Bioware is known for making linear story-based games where choices affect not only your alignment, but the outcome of the story. Their games are class-based, not skill-based. They're also light on the main story, with a lot of side missions.

Secondly, SWTOR is the successor to KOTOR, which are both developed by Bioware. Following the first point I made, you can see the similarities between SWTOR and KOTOR. Both games have their main stories, although SWTOR has 8 different main stories split into their respective classes, whereas KOTOR only had 1. Both games had an overabundance of side-quests. Quests that were meaningless in the grand scheme of things and were really just filler content to level you up so you could continue the story. KOTOR didn't have any great space game, housing, or anything like that, just like SWTOR.

So with Bioware admitting that SWTOR was bringing to the genre the 4th pillar: STORY, and knowing their history and etc, how could anymore expect a game much different than what we got?

Now that's not to say SWTOR doesn't have its flaws. I think SWTOR is only a shadow of the KOTOR series, because choices mattered a lot more in the SPG's, our characters were more customizable using the DnD rulesets, our characters felt way more powerful, and I don't remember reusing lines for many conversations. 

But ultimately, I find the class stories in SWTOR enjoyable, the combat fun, and grouping fun. There isn't much else to the game, at least not much I enjoy, but those little bits are worth the fee until those bits run out. 

What does that tell us? That Bioware is not meant for MMORPG's. Even SWTOR is more akin to their past games, which makes sense, than to a traditional MMORPG. SWTOR would of been far more successful if it was just a co-op/small multiplayer game, instead of having resources wasted on making it a MMORPG.

Just my 2 cents.

laugh. out. loud.

no it's bioware and ea's fault! we the players told them what we wanted time after time! no one wanted the class system i remember people begging them to put in professions! no one wanted star wars fox we wanted real 3d space that we could explore and do whatever we wanted in. we told them the hero engine doesn't look good and that they should swich over to a better engine! we told them time after time what we wanted and know what we got back?

"Oh you guys will love it! The stories are awesome and there's so much game play!"

tell that to the people who had a 50 inside a week and left. hey how about all of that end game content? wow has more, rift has more, gw2 has more, tsw a game that is growing by leaps and bounds has more. I've seen facebook games that have more content then tor will ever hope to have. the stories? boring. GW2 and TSW has better stories along with gameplay.

as far as I see it tor has to be shut down. the mmo base has told bioware that we didn't want another wow we wanted something like swg pre-cu meets eve and what we got was something that is one of the most boring and lifeless mmo's in the history of mmo's. tor can't even get f2p right that's how bad it is.

  karmath

Novice Member

Joined: 8/24/05
Posts: 843

12/01/12 9:29:21 PM#4

The ship has sailed mate. The game is a failure in the eyes of the community and the developer.

Aint much more to say.

  Deewe

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/08
Posts: 1976

12/01/12 9:31:24 PM#5

KOTOR story was much less linear than TOR.

Most TOR side story are way less interesting then KOTOR ones.

One does not lives in KOTOR

SWTOR is supposed a MMORPG: housing is important in a MMO

Another SW MMO with less than 1/10th of TOR  budget managed to have a decent space sim.

Stoory isn't that great in TOR, it's even better in TSW

I don't know for the whole BioWare. I mean Austin studio sucked at making a good MMO (blame some of the leads), but pretty sure the people I know in their Montreal studio would do much much better at making an MMO than them.

  gravesworn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 325

12/01/12 9:31:33 PM#6
It really is probably a combination of timing and familuarity. We are hitting a stage of mmorpgs that has seen that done that as far as themeparks. The current appeal for sandboxes doesnt necessarily stem from hate of themeparks but it does show a evolutionary desire from mmorpgs from the payers. We will go through a sandbox phase and on to something else in another 10 years. Lol.
  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4778

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

12/01/12 9:32:38 PM#7

so...call us extremists but we want the MMos unfit to exist to die as a clear message to MMo developers to stop with the crap.

 

if MMOs had feelings the story might be different. They don't.

  defector1968

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/10
Posts: 400

Real Animal lovers are ONLY the vegetarians

12/01/12 9:36:04 PM#8

personally i left for the unbalanced class

way too much unbalance

  Masonic1

Novice Member

Joined: 11/13/12
Posts: 47

12/01/12 9:39:12 PM#9

you know what op the more i think about it i think it's not just mmo's but games that have to change.

look at this year this was the worst year of gaming ever. bad title after bad title. day one dlc with almost all of them. more of the same old same old we are all sick and tired off. boring rpg's like mass effect 3, diablo 3 and skyrim. bad fps titles like halo 4, borderlands 2 and yet another call of duty. they couldn't even get a remake of x-com right.

so far the only mmo that's come out this year that is good is secret world. and thank god that game is growing by leaps and bounds. the player base is just growing bigger every day, i've been told it's going to hit the 500k mark very, very soon. and tor? tor will be the game looked at as to why this year was the worst year in gaming.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

12/01/12 10:46:39 PM#10

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

- G.B.Shaw

 

/thread

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/01/12 10:53:24 PM#11

They shouldnt have told use they were going to deliver an EPIC AND TRUE MMORPG then ;)

Its by far epic, and half the features of a true mmorpg.

Its good for what it is, a KOTOR mmo.

THough the story and graphics were nice, and i did enjoy them. It offered nothing for prolonged gaming for me. But i do not bash it, its just not what it should hav been. I felt it took a step backwards to be honest. But glad other enjoy it, and hope they get what they want from it.

  f0dell54

Novice Member

Joined: 4/16/12
Posts: 311

Sanity....
It's for the weak.

12/01/12 11:41:52 PM#12
Originally posted by Elikal

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

- G.B.Shaw

 

/thread

 

 

 I want to thank you for making this day necessary.

 

-Yogi Berra

  TeknoBug

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/07
Posts: 2166

12/02/12 2:07:12 PM#13

SWTOR successor to KOTOR? HAHA I LOVED KOTOR series, SWTOR didn't even give me that feeling of KOTOR.


It lacked the themepark quality, lacked multiplayer quality and lacked long term play. Only thing it had good going was the storyline, but once you roll a new character you basically spacebar through everything making the story part pointless.


I was in beta of SWTOR, I didn't have any kind of expectation, but it gave me an impression that Bioware wanted to make a WoW clone and having seen past games attempting to copy WoW and failing- I knew SWTOR was well on its way down that particular path.


  Spiider

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/15/05
Posts: 443

12/02/12 2:09:54 PM#14
My fault they spent 300 milliion dollars to make this and community (and myself) don't like it. Damn, and here I was convinced that I had nothing to do with creation of that game. Now it's all clear, thank you. LOL.

No fate but what we make, so make me a ham sandwich please.

  Trionicus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/12
Posts: 488

12/02/12 2:13:04 PM#15
I was at the point where I would have accepted WOW with lightsabers, they barely delivered... if that.
  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

12/02/12 2:22:09 PM#16

I am currently playing F2P and enjoying it for what it seems to be, a fairly average MMO with stories. After reading this site for a few months it was what I expected, I have spent $5,99 on cartel points to tweak some things and move to premium status and for  my time will be good value.

However, OP, no one can deny the game has failed, it went from the most expensive game in history to announcing F2P within 8 months, if anyone had unrealistic expectations it was EA/Bioware who expected people to like it enough to stay subbed, any company that blames the consumers for not buying their products will not remain in business long, the customer is always right (for their own reason) when they withdraw custom.


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

12/02/12 3:57:54 PM#17
Originally posted by Spiider
My fault they spent 300 milliion dollars to make this and community (and myself) don't like it. Damn, and here I was convinced that I had nothing to do with creation of that game. Now it's all clear, thank you. LOL.

Now we know whos house to egg next Halloween!

 

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2614

12/02/12 4:03:15 PM#18

Some of it was unrealistic expectations.  The whiny space combat crowd is evidence enough of that, but some things had nothing to do with expectations like poor optimization, bugs, sterile gameworlds, mediocre storylines, lack of endgame content, and slow content updates.

 

For some reason, I always gravitate more towards SW:TOR than many other themeparks deemed to be superior games, but it's clear that SW:TOR failed to meet expectations.  A lot of that is why this game has received so much flack.  If you look at the game objectively, it's not that bad, but BioWare has too many one-time fans who were spurned by what they got with SW:TOR.  It has now reached a point where it's cool to hate on SW:TOR regardless of whether or not you have an objective argument, much like Diablo 3.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

12/02/12 4:13:57 PM#19
Originally posted by Elikal

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

- G.B.Shaw

Careful there, piles of aphorisms..."reasonable" is just too vague to even play at.  Might as well toss out "good".

(That's the neat thing about aphorisms; you can dig one up to express nearly anything.)

An optimist may see a light where there is none, but why must the pessimist always run to blow it out?
--Descartes

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.