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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » We dont want games - we want worlds.

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735 posts found
  corpusc

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1390

CHATTANOOGAN

contact me if you are seriously interested in
* C#
* making an old schoolish FPS

12/02/12 3:51:40 AM#481
Originally posted by Quirhid
 You either accept it or you can whine about it in the forums. Either way its not my problem. The genre is not going to die when you stop playing.

 

 

either you accept other peoples gaming tastes/desires or you can continue whining about it obsessively in the forums.

apparently its a BIGtime problem for you, or you wouldn't be so obsessively addressing the subject, when (in reality) it was completely optional for you to add your 2 cents.

3500 posts and climbing.

relax man.

the forum is not going to die when you stop posting

The End
---------------------------
i don't expect to like Darkfall, altho i may like it MORE than other MMOs. i know it is gonna have a very frustrating level of grind to it, even if its significantly less than most. waiting for a pure FAST action virtual world. dice rolling & character levels (even "skills") IN COMBAT should have never carried over from pencil & paper to a computer that can reasonably model 3D spaces and objects

  Scot

Elite Member

Joined: 10/10/03
Posts: 5628

12/02/12 3:57:18 AM#482

“We are not suggesting a fancy italian restaurant with meals you cannot pronounce.”

Indeed our casual players could just have the hors d'œuvre :)

The money and time of development argument lizardbones made is why we increasingly see MMO’s which are little more than solo games with a themepark lobby. So we face one of two futures, is that players want, MMO’s becoming nothing more than a themepark lobby game?

We are already well down that course now and it will not stop here, MMO’s  will become more thempark and more lobby style in the years to come.

Or do you want a future where a more open world approach is followed. As others have mentioned, we are not sandbox purists, that is the box you seem to want to put this argument in. I vote for choice, for both styles of gameplay.

Erikk3189, the reason you have not seen a MMO with the social options of SWG is that gaming companies decided that was not a priority. Graphics and solo playability became the priorities and everything else was thrown to the wind. Gaming companies do like us to socialise but in an in house system like Origin, or hooked up with a social media site. The reason for this is that out of game social connections generate more customers for the MMO. In game social functions do not create more customers, they are already playing. Marketing is happy and these days that’s all that matters. Community managers might have voiced their concern had that job not been downgraded to menial work in a MMO.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

12/02/12 4:09:06 AM#483
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by lizardbones

 Rift sold more accounts than UO, SWG and Eve combined. 

Really? How come?

Last thing that was announced was 1mil sold copies for rift, 600k peak subs after launch (for a month or two).

Then we have swg 550 peak subs, UO 250k peak subs, Eve 600k subs.

Everyone doctors the numbers a bit when he tries to make a point, but come on.

What stock "information" will we hear next?

That no sandbox ever broke 1m players?

That the only mmorpg to ever have millions of subs is wow?

Flame on!

:)

Wat?

UO peaked at 250k, correct, but SWG actually peaked at 300k and Eve is holding at 350k. Forget doctoring. Are you trying to feed false information to win an argument? You're despicable...

Brain fart, i obviously got lost in the shapes and colors of the mmodata graphs (eve with that many subs did appear suspicious), sorry. If i wanted to decieve you, i would not have used numbers that you can doublecheck, as you have done.

Do the correct numbers change anything?

I will take it as compliment, being called despicable by someone who sells his personal opinion as the objective truth on the regular basis. :)

Flame on!

:)

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3882

12/02/12 4:09:53 AM#484

Well said Scot

     You get my vote as ambassador for the "we want a world"  genre..  Maybe one day soon a dev house will stay clear of the gravey train of WoW clone games, and created something more..  I do believe GW2 was a step in the right direction, but not big enough.. Maybe this EQNext that Sony is talking about will do the trick, but then maybe not.. LOL 

  Jemcrystal

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1469

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

12/02/12 4:57:08 AM#485
If I lived in an mmo I would be like glitchen in on the pot going this sucks.

  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

12/02/12 5:53:34 AM#486
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by lizardbones

 Rift sold more accounts than UO, SWG and Eve combined. 

Really? How come?

Last thing that was announced was 1mil sold copies for rift, 600k peak subs after launch (for a month or two).

Then we have swg 550 peak subs, UO 250k peak subs, Eve 600k subs.

Everyone doctors the numbers a bit when he tries to make a point, but come on.

What stock "information" will we hear next?

That no sandbox ever broke 1m players?

That the only mmorpg to ever have millions of subs is wow?

Flame on!

:)

Wat?

UO peaked at 250k, correct, but SWG actually peaked at 300k and Eve is holding at 350k. Forget doctoring. Are you trying to feed false information to win an argument? You're despicable...

Eve is holding at 450k if you include the seperate Chinese serve they run (I think Chinese GVT prevents China accounts being integrated into the main server.)


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5975

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

12/02/12 6:07:03 AM#487
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Brain fart, i obviously got lost in the shapes and colors of the mmodata graphs (eve with that many subs did appear suspicious), sorry. If i wanted to decieve you, i would not have used numbers that you can doublecheck, as you have done.

Do the correct numbers change anything?

I will take it as compliment, being called despicable by someone who sells his personal opinion as the objective truth on the regular basis. :)

Flame on!

:)

If you do the match those three numbers do not exceed 1 million. So yes, I think it changes the message.

I would never claim my view as being "the truth" only it is often the more objective one. I may come out like that only because the posters here have a lot of bullshit to answer for, and I love poking holes at people's bullshit arguments. You can call me out too, I'm not above it all.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5975

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

12/02/12 6:09:35 AM#488
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Quirhid
 You either accept it or you can whine about it in the forums. Either way its not my problem. The genre is not going to die when you stop playing.

 

 

either you accept other peoples gaming tastes/desires or you can continue whining about it obsessively in the forums.

apparently its a BIGtime problem for you, or you wouldn't be so obsessively addressing the subject, when (in reality) it was completely optional for you to add your 2 cents.

3500 posts and climbing.

relax man.

the forum is not going to die when you stop posting

What can I say, I'm only trying to do good in the world. "If you can do good in the world you have a responsibility to do it." Now was that someone smart and famous or was that from a  spiderman movie... Yup.. I think spiderman.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

12/02/12 6:13:31 AM#489
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Brain fart, i obviously got lost in the shapes and colors of the mmodata graphs (eve with that many subs did appear suspicious), sorry. If i wanted to decieve you, i would not have used numbers that you can doublecheck, as you have done.

Do the correct numbers change anything?

I will take it as compliment, being called despicable by someone who sells his personal opinion as the objective truth on the regular basis. :)

Flame on!

:)

If you do the match those three numbers do not exceed 1 million. So yes, I think it changes the message.

I would never claim my view as being "the truth" only it is often the more objective one. I may come out like that only because the posters here have a lot of bullshit to answer for, and I love poking holes at people's bullshit arguments. You can call me out too, I'm not above it all.

It hits 1 million with the correct EVE number :-)


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

12/02/12 6:38:14 AM#490
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by Banaghran
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Brain fart, i obviously got lost in the shapes and colors of the mmodata graphs (eve with that many subs did appear suspicious), sorry. If i wanted to decieve you, i would not have used numbers that you can doublecheck, as you have done.

Do the correct numbers change anything?

I will take it as compliment, being called despicable by someone who sells his personal opinion as the objective truth on the regular basis. :)

Flame on!

:)

If you do the match those three numbers do not exceed 1 million. So yes, I think it changes the message.

I would never claim my view as being "the truth" only it is often the more objective one. I may come out like that only because the posters here have a lot of bullshit to answer for, and I love poking holes at people's bullshit arguments. You can call me out too, I'm not above it all.

Does it? ~900k sub is more than 600k subs, if 600k subs gives you 1m boxes, how many boxes gives you 900k subs, over several months, not just 1 or 2, since we have to take into account that every box is worth ~3 months of subs ouside sales? 

MeatloafMcCoy was ambiguous, rememeber "Rift sold more accounts than UO, SWG and Eve combined."

Even if that means pirated sold accounts rift is not better than those games combined :)

As for truth its more of a stance thing, do you think it is more objective because you agree with it , or because you have considered more possibilities? Im not saying you are the only one at fault (nor that you even are), my comment was just a jab, just that it is the reality of arguing around and about the status quo.

Flame on!

:)

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

12/02/12 6:42:00 AM#491
Originally posted by Quirhid
Originally posted by corpusc
Originally posted by Quirhid
 You either accept it or you can whine about it in the forums. Either way its not my problem. The genre is not going to die when you stop playing.

 

 

either you accept other peoples gaming tastes/desires or you can continue whining about it obsessively in the forums.

apparently its a BIGtime problem for you, or you wouldn't be so obsessively addressing the subject, when (in reality) it was completely optional for you to add your 2 cents.

3500 posts and climbing.

relax man.

the forum is not going to die when you stop posting

What can I say, I'm only trying to do good in the world. "If you can do good in the world you have a responsibility to do it." Now was that someone smart and famous or was that from a  spiderman movie... Yup.. I think spiderman.

They also say the road to hell is paved with good intentions :)

Flame on!

:)

  Thornrage

Comfortably Numb

Joined: 12/26/07
Posts: 589

Why kill them with kindness, when I can use an axe?

12/02/12 7:01:10 AM#492
Originally posted by erikk3189

Basically, the OP is talking about a game like SWG (pre NGE).

SWG was way ahead of it's time. They had things that you don't see anymore which is why they had such a hardcore following and people went mad when they changed the game.

The amount of social options that game had was very large which made it so much fun. Sad to say, they took it off and no other game has come close to duplicating some of the things from back then.

Agreed.

"I don't give a sh*t what other people say. I play what I like and I'll pay to do it too!" - SerialMMOist

  Avison

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/03
Posts: 348

Where is your god now?

12/02/12 7:07:44 AM#493

I've been around the gaming community since it was first born. Every new game takes steps forward and back and makes sacrificies for numerous features. I can't say that I don't want a world to inhabit. This is why Ultima Online and similar games were so enjoyable to me.

I'd also like to thank Lobotomist for making thought provoking and interestings threads and posts since he joined this community. You're one of the very minute members who contributes to the very fundamental reason why forums exist. The sharing of ideas and the debates/arguments surrounding those ideas. Your posts are a pleasure to read.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/02/12 8:16:34 AM#494


Originally posted by ObiClownobi

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Banaghran

Originally posted by lizardbones  Rift sold more accounts than UO, SWG and Eve combined. 
Really? How come? Last thing that was announced was 1mil sold copies for rift, 600k peak subs after launch (for a month or two). Then we have swg 550 peak subs, UO 250k peak subs, Eve 600k subs. Everyone doctors the numbers a bit when he tries to make a point, but come on. What stock "information" will we hear next? That no sandbox ever broke 1m players? That the only mmorpg to ever have millions of subs is wow? Flame on! :)
Wat? UO peaked at 250k, correct, but SWG actually peaked at 300k and Eve is holding at 350k. Forget doctoring. Are you trying to feed false information to win an argument? You're despicable...
Eve is holding at 450k if you include the seperate Chinese serve they run (I think Chinese GVT prevents China accounts being integrated into the main server.)



We don't know what Rift sold after it released 'around the world'. However, if we assume that Rift sold a million and Eve is holding at four hundred fifty thousand, that puts the total UO + SWG + Eve peak players at (450 + 300 + 278 = 1,028) a bit over a million people. That is just ahead of Rift's peak of a million. Then we have SWToR and Guild Wars, both of which had peak users around two million.

Again, not saying that UO, SWG and Eve aren't popular. They are. They aren't really the most popular MMORPG though. Remember, we're not even talking about WoW. Take WoW out of the argument entirely and it doesn't change anything.

You can interpret the information any way you want, but the one thing that is true is that there are fewer people buying and playing sandbox style games. Even when sandbox games are on the leading edge they lose out to theme park games. UO and SWG were both on the leading edge when they released. They both lost out to games that went with a more theme park style of play.

That's why there aren't more of them right now. They make less money.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 7538

12/02/12 8:26:01 AM#495

This is one of those things where many will shout "Yes we want worlds!!!!" .... But once the developer gives them a world they say "this is BORING".

Sometimes masses don't really know what they want, they just think they do.

masses want easy, shallow games, that's what sells, games that require no long time commitment and are accessible to the lowest common denominator. A vast minority wants a complex deep world simulation.

Now consider that a quality MMORPG will cost at least $40 mil... Yeah good luck on getting that virtual world that only 30,000 players would actually play in.

The dev studios capable of making quality MMORPGs are not going to blow tens of millions $s on something that few will play. On the flip side small indie devs can't deliver the quality nor infrastructure to support an evolving online world so the gamers who want to play this type of game would complain due to inferior quality and service.

Its a pickle.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19875

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

12/02/12 8:36:27 AM#496
Originally posted by Avison

I've been around the gaming community since it was first born. Every new game takes steps forward and back and makes sacrificies for numerous features. I can't say that I don't want a world to inhabit. This is why Ultima Online and similar games were so enjoyable to me.

I'd also like to thank Lobotomist for making thought provoking and interestings threads and posts since he joined this community. You're one of the very minute members who contributes to the very fundamental reason why forums exist. The sharing of ideas and the debates/arguments surrounding those ideas. Your posts are a pleasure to read.

Meh, I think of him more as more of a firestarter, he gets the threads burning but then bails on the conversation, apparently doesn't enjoy the controversy they stir up.

Here's the short of it.  Some of us want virtual worlds, no idea how many of us there are or if we make a large enough niche for a developer to really profit on creating games for us.

One thing that is clear is the majority of gamers are not MMORPG purists, so they have more interest in a quick in and out experiences, in fact, I dare say they likely aren't even particularly unhappy that MMORPG's today only offer a couple of months of  gameplay before running dry, plays just like all the other titles they enjoy. (probably offers more than some Single player games in fact)

If game companies can make enough profit from this this model to recover their costs and a decent profit to keep the title going for years after, then we'll not likely see much change in the genre anytime soon.

 

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 5026

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  12/02/12 8:39:44 AM#497
Originally posted by Avison

I've been around the gaming community since it was first born. Every new game takes steps forward and back and makes sacrificies for numerous features. I can't say that I don't want a world to inhabit. This is why Ultima Online and similar games were so enjoyable to me.

I'd also like to thank Lobotomist for making thought provoking and interestings threads and posts since he joined this community. You're one of the very minute members who contributes to the very fundamental reason why forums exist. The sharing of ideas and the debates/arguments surrounding those ideas. Your posts are a pleasure to read.

Thank you very much.

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 5026

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

 
OP  12/02/12 8:47:43 AM#498
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Avison

I've been around the gaming community since it was first born. Every new game takes steps forward and back and makes sacrificies for numerous features. I can't say that I don't want a world to inhabit. This is why Ultima Online and similar games were so enjoyable to me.

I'd also like to thank Lobotomist for making thought provoking and interestings threads and posts since he joined this community. You're one of the very minute members who contributes to the very fundamental reason why forums exist. The sharing of ideas and the debates/arguments surrounding those ideas. Your posts are a pleasure to read.

Meh, I think of him more as more of a firestarter, he gets the threads burning but then bails on the conversation, apparently doesn't enjoy the controversy they stir up.

I bail on the conversation because i was banned so many times on this forums. I just can not risk getting into debate.     
Also I think that the point was made and the number of posts in this topics do resonate with general feeling of the community

 

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

12/02/12 9:24:13 AM#499


Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Avison I've been around the gaming community since it was first born. Every new game takes steps forward and back and makes sacrificies for numerous features. I can't say that I don't want a world to inhabit. This is why Ultima Online and similar games were so enjoyable to me. I'd also like to thank Lobotomist for making thought provoking and interestings threads and posts since he joined this community. You're one of the very minute members who contributes to the very fundamental reason why forums exist. The sharing of ideas and the debates/arguments surrounding those ideas. Your posts are a pleasure to read.
Meh, I think of him more as more of a firestarter, he gets the threads burning but then bails on the conversation, apparently doesn't enjoy the controversy they stir up.

<snip> 




He is named Lobotomist, not HappyFluffyBunnyConversationalist.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

12/02/12 10:08:09 AM#500
Originally posted by lizardbones

We don't know what Rift sold after it released 'around the world'. However, if we assume that Rift sold a million and Eve is holding at four hundred fifty thousand, that puts the total UO + SWG + Eve peak players at (450 + 300 + 278 = 1,028) a bit over a million people. That is just ahead of Rift's peak of a million. Then we have SWToR and Guild Wars, both of which had peak users around two million.

 

I should probably not reply to this given my recent record, but 1m boxes sold =/= 1m subs, rift never had a million subs, the highest number we have is 600k right after launch, dropping quite fast to the 300k area. So you would have to elaborate a bit further to prove that 1m or even 2m boxes, that amount at best to 4 months of subs are better, except for the obvious possibility of making a crap game intentionally just to cash up on the hype and box sales.

Does Guild wars even have a sub fee?

Flame on!

:)

 

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