Originally posted by Onomas
Not P2W but costs of guns are outrageous. $7-$10 dollares for a single weapon, 3-8$ for gear is high. And the certs needed to unlock one weapons is 1k without a boost or sub it will take you some time. But not P2W, heavy lmg is bad ass and mows enemies down. Just cert for a better site and upgrade your armor, etc....Sniper rifle you start with is decent as well.

Is it really so outrageous that a game company tries to...i dunno...pay the people who made the game ect?

Spend $10 for that gun, you wont need to spend any more, thats spending $10 for a game...quite a good deal imo.

Or just go the deadbeat gamer route and dont buy anything, you wont look as interesting, not that it matters.

Realistically you need to spend at least 30 certs (a few bases flipped) on a better scope for the standard gun.  Then save up for a better gun with better upgrades, should take a week, after that its all upgrades and stuff you dont need but comes in handy to have, like two tank turrets one for infantry and one for armor...or a better rocket launcher that locks on to targets.  Not vital but makes stuff easier.

You want outrageous.  Check out APB (all Points Bulletin) its on this site.  They let you rent a gun for a month for like $30 or buy it permanant for $60.  $7-$10 on a permanant gun in PL2  fine.  Hell catch it on sale or during a double station cash event and get it for less.

Stop being gamer deadbeats.  Support the game you play.

No.

/thread

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Stop being gamer deadbeats.  Support the game you play.

This, if the game sucks stop playing and move on, if not, toss in few dollars. These broke ass bums seem to think that someone creates a game over a few years which costs millions to make and then just gives everything out for free without even trying to make a dime. Without even trying to make a dime.

I have a monthly sub going for the increased exp rate and the 500 station cash a month. Really can't argue with it, it's only going to get better as the months roll on as well, with my bonuses increasing. I am making certs at a comfortable rate, quite happy with how it's going.

This is how a free-to-play model should be.

the Op has clearly no clue what hes talking about. pay-to-win is NOT that you can get all weapons and items way faster with paying.. pay-to-win is that you get an advantage with it.

Planetside 2, buying items and weapons gives NO real advantages. All weapons and stuff all got the same amount of parameters,

only thing different is where the focus is on (dmg, reloadspeed,subtility,shootspeed,explosions etc.) so this is not pay-to-win ... this is pay-to-get-your-personal-preference-before-people-without-money-do-even-though-everyone-will-still-be-able-to-kill-you-as-easy.

pay2win? you sure never played any p2w game dude... that's nowhere close to P2W, we must play different game, i spent 0$ in PS2 and yet with using just cert points im in TOP 20 on our server, just playing medic and engineer bought few rifles with cert points + scope + smoke screen, some armor and utility upgrade and still i can take down one squad alone nearly, its not only about some uber 1hitKO weapon, if you cant aim, hide, use environment and work in team ... not even best weapon will help you...

as ppl stated... learn what is p2w.

i always give ppl the same example, go play PWI....

thats is p2w. when you want to get your weapon +1,+2+3 etc (level 70 +weapons) you have to buy a stone from the CS, no other way, and without reforging your weapon you will be useless.

thats p2w. i can go on how they make you buy more stones once you want to add + to your weapon, making the hcance for the upgrade tp downgrade with the process, and making you buy a 2nd sotne to make sure the upgrade will not fail.

i can also tell you about the fact that every time you want to upgrade you need more stones (i.e 1,2,4,8 etc).

i mean just go play PWI for a month or two then come back and we can sit and talk about what is a P2W game and what is the F2P with the sub and CS. 

Originally posted by Sindorin

People say the game isn't Pay-To-Win seeing as technically everything in the game is achievable through kills/objectives and earning certs through gameplay even as a freeper. However if you look at the rate you get certs, and the costs of items, virtually all of it is impossible to attain without hundreds and hundreds of hours of grinding just to get a few decent items. Just to ensure that recoil, aiming and accuracy is improved to a REALISTIC level, and not a deliberate method to force people to pay for scopes and ACOG like devices, you have to grind for dozens of hours or longer.

 

Yes, it is pay to win, because in order to get around that, you have to pay to become a premium member or otherwise buy the items outright. Without these items, the game is horrible. It's just more of the same grinding trash.

pay to win means that a specific item that is OP in front of others can be obtain only with real money
 (a.k.a. NFSW) not PS2

If you could buy certification points in the store then I'd agree it's P2W. But you can't 

Your "bought" weapon will help a bit in some situations, but it's your certs and play experience that will make the real difference. And those character improvements can only be gained by playing the game.

This has been discussed to death on the PS2 official forums.

First off, a premium member can't buy items unless they have SC (500 per month) and a premium member starts off with +25% xp gain and it goes up each month (I think it's +35% with station pass, it is for me). I can get 50-60 certs per hour. With certs earned alone I've already bought a handful of things, I only bought the weapon starter kit for my newly created character when I had enough of the lag and faction imbalance on my first server.

It is Pay to Win.

You buy weapons, upgrades and even camo to help hide you in your surroundings. To unlock a lot of stuff would take months and months and even years tbh and the stuff you buy gives you a clear advantage. They said the stuff you'd be buying will be purely cosmetic and it isn't. I've found myself buying so much stuff just to be able to compete.

Originally posted by tixylix

It is Pay to Win.

You buy weapons, upgrades and even camo to help hide you in your surroundings. To unlock a lot of stuff would take months and months and even years tbh and the stuff you buy gives you a clear advantage. They said the stuff you'd be buying will be purely cosmetic and it isn't. I've found myself buying so much stuff just to be able to compete.

You must not be very good at the game, I play 1-5 hours maybe 3 days a week and I already have spent over 1000 certs buying my gun, upgrading it, and getting various upgrades for my character. I can get any upgrade in the game I want in less than a week. The game is not pay to win, if you don't like it then move on.

Originally posted by Krashner

Originally posted by tixylix

It is Pay to Win.

You buy weapons, upgrades and even camo to help hide you in your surroundings. To unlock a lot of stuff would take months and months and even years tbh and the stuff you buy gives you a clear advantage. They said the stuff you'd be buying will be purely cosmetic and it isn't. I've found myself buying so much stuff just to be able to compete.

You must not be very good at the game, I play 1-5 hours maybe 3 days a week and I already have spent over 1000 certs buying my gun, upgrading it, and getting various upgrades for my character. I can get any upgrade in the game I want in less than a week. The game is not pay to win, if you don't like it then move on.

Maybe they'd earn more certs if they could somehow get the equipment that suits their playstyle earlier on? I don't think the game is P2W, but it is pay to win quicker. I think anything over 5 hours to unlock something is outrageous.

I'll tell you straight up.. this game is losing players because of the grinding sense they are getting from unlocking stuff.

It's losing popularity because if it. It's that simple.. they should do something about it if they want a more successful game. Because all the upgrades are really sidegrades there is nothing to worry about if everyone gets them faster. So why make it take so long? $$$.

It's the price of a new gun that is the problem. Everything else like sights and armor mods etc is fine. The certs needed for guns needs to be halfed..as does the real money price for the guns because it's stupidly expensive, anyone buying them is an idiot.

I subscribed, I get a boost to my exp, and 500 station cash a month. So far I am paying a £1 less a month, I never bought the game in the first place, so far I'm on quite a good deal.

The 500 station cash lets me buy all the camo I want, it's so damn cheap.

When I first started I was worried about the pay to win issue so I just stuck it out and as a TR I bought the gun for the infintrator for 100 certs, was really cheap. I then went on a headshot domination spree, really easy killing guys. Then i grabbed the scope 12x for 30 certs and became a sniping demon, 4-1 kd ratios, no problem in sniper duels or anything like that.

Nothing apart from vehicles or max suits lasted more than one shot.

Pay to Win this is not. Stop saying this.

Freeloaders want an easy time regardless, an MMO company has to make some money you know. What the hell is wrong with society that makes people believe that freeloading is an option. They need to have incentives to get you to purchase something. The idea is that you dont play it for free for ever, that you actually drop some cash on it.

Sick of you people..

Originally posted by Enerzeal

I subscribed, I get a boost to my exp, and 500 station cash a month. So far I am paying a £1 less a month, I never bought the game in the first place, so far I'm on quite a good deal.

The 500 station cash lets me buy all the camo I want, it's so damn cheap.

When I first started I was worried about the pay to win issue so I just stuck it out and as a TR I bought the gun for the infintrator for 100 certs, was really cheap. I then went on a headshot domination spree, really easy killing guys. Then i grabbed the scope 12x for 30 certs and became a sniping demon, 4-1 kd ratios, no problem in sniper duels or anything like that.

Nothing apart from vehicles or max suits lasted more than one shot.

 

Pay to Win this is not. Stop saying this.

Freeloaders want an easy time regardless, an MMO company has to make some money you know. What the hell is wrong with society that makes people believe that freeloading is an option. They need to have incentives to get you to purchase something. The idea is that you dont play it for free for ever, that you actually drop some cash on it.

 

Sick of you people..

+1

how about you work for my company for free... the only time i pay you is 1 dollar for overtime per hour.... I'm sure they'd love it.

Originally posted by tixylix

It is Pay to Win.

You buy weapons, upgrades and even camo to help hide you in your surroundings. To unlock a lot of stuff would take months and months and even years tbh and the stuff you buy gives you a clear advantage. They said the stuff you'd be buying will be purely cosmetic and it isn't. I've found myself buying so much stuff just to be able to compete.

Upgraded gun costs 100 certs.  Or $2.50 in the cash shop.  It offers more upgrading options than the default.  Thats cheaper than most class based certs.

Camo...well...hard to stay hidden with a red triangle above your head.  Confusion on the battle field is the best camo imo.

Yeah if you want a vehicle that facerolls, specifically aircraft or anti aircraft your going to have to pay $5-$10 or save 500-1000 certs, which is doable in a week.

If youve bought a lot of stuff you realize how fractional and pointless a lot of the weapons are...in fact theres a lot of threads about people upset that the gun they bought was worse than the default...

Anyone, anyone with a brain knows pay 2 win requires you to pay, and most make you pay a lot.  If you have issues with paying $5-$10 for something rather than waiting a week or two to earn it in game as p2w then you better get a better job or never touch a free game again and find a new hobby.

The only stuff that you cant get in game dosnt matter, like rims for your transport, colord glass for your aircraft...and most of the camo, even region specific, doesnt completely cover you...TR still has red all over inbetween the artic camo for the artic map.

In fact...the griaffe camo...apparently is the best for blending in...which it shouldnt...and doesnt tbh.

If youve spent more than $20 on this game you were buying stupid stuff that has zero bearing on the game...

Any gear gap between myself and people who spend money is completely unnoticeable due to being massively swamped by the skill gap between myself and people who are actually good at FPSes. :-)

Originally posted by Banquetto

Any gear gap between myself and people who spend money is completely unnoticeable due to being massively swamped by the skill gap between myself and people who are actually good at FPSes. :-)

Those default weapons are arguably the best.  All you need to do to bridge the gear gap, which doesnt exist tbh, is to spent the 100 certs on the cheap upgrade.  Its the same gun you got for free but it has better cert upgrade options.  If you want the gun that shoots faster with less accuracy or a smaller clip with faster reload time then you might have to pay $2.50-$7.50...which is dirt cheap to permanantly own the gun.

Think APB and their "for $30 you can own the gun for a month and for $60 you can keep it" then think PS2 and their "give us a few bucks or play for a few days and get it free"

Gear gap is only noticable on aircraft, and some people do just fine without. However....those rocket pods or in the case for heavy assualy, the rocket launcher with the aircaft homing device...can be HUGE XP makers for those who save up the certs of pay the premium (under $10)

Pay 2 Win is a business model and has nothing to do with what anyone feels is right or wrong.   Essentially if a game has a cash shop that allows a player to circumvent game mechanics, then it is pay 2 win.   

As far as whether or not a cash shop is breaking game balance is completely a player's opinion. 

IMHO, all players have a different tolerance levels for cash shops.   Some are perfectly ok with them, but others don't like them at all, and many more fall somewhere in the middle.