Originally posted by Chieftan
[mod edit]

I can't tell if you are being serious.

You provdie links to a site we aren't supposed to link to.

The links show a B2P MMO still holding #5 behind WoW's #4.

B2P depends more on boc sales and xpac sales then anything, cash shop is bonus.

The second link shows a P2P game which took longer, and much more money to develop, only at #11 after a FTP conversion.

I know that the site you linked to isn't for directly compring one game to another, just to identify trends.

That said, even if I would use that site's analytics to compare the two games, I'd say your evidence was less then compelling for your argument.

I understand that a lot of people have hate for TOR.  They want their specific type of game and they had high hopes for TOR.  And for them, it wasn't even close.

I enjoy playing TOR for the story aspect. The Combat isn't terrible, but personally, it blows games such as gw2 out of the water.  But that's me. I play the game very casual with a few friends. 

I'll come back to TOR in a minute.

I recently started my ten day trial for cata in WoW.  I had not played in over two years.  I had huge feelings of nostalgia for WoW recently.  Why?  Because of playing a game I enjoy with my friends (TOR currently).  I remembered how I used to play with SO many people in WoW and how fun it was playing with people I knew.  I wanted to experience more of that feeling.  So I started play WoW again.

In relation to TOR and games in general, for me, the game can only take it so far.  Sure, a game needs to be fun.  But I also want to play with friends.  Playing with friends makes or breaks any multiplayer game for me.  I'm not saying I don't go out and meet new people in game, far from it.  I love meeting new people.  But playing with people you have known since SWG release is always a bit more fun.

Anyways, back to the post.  I think everyone who could have tried or heard of TOR has.  I think 99% of them have formed their opinion, positive or negative.  Yet people come here still trying to shout out how much they hate the game and how bad it is.  There are very few people who openly say the game is great and shout out that feeling.  And for good reason.  Yet they are being told they are wrong because most others left the game and feel otherwise.

People hate on GW2, no doubt.  They hate on other games.  But I think with how high of esteem people hold Star Wars (and for some silly reason, the rest of SWG other then crafting), this one hurts them more.  So they want to 'hurt" back.  At least, that's the only reason I can come up with for peoples crusade against the game when everyone already knows how they feel about it.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Chieftan
[mod edit]

 

I can't tell if you are being serious.

You provdie links to a site we aren't supposed to link to.

The links show a B2P MMO still holding #5 behind WoW's #4.

B2P depends more on boc sales and xpac sales then anything, cash shop is bonus.

The second link shows a P2P game which took longer, and much more money to develop, only at #11 after a FTP conversion.

I know that the site you linked to isn't for directly compring one game to another, just to identify trends.

That said, even if I would use that site's analytics to compare the two games, I'd say your evidence was less then compelling for your argument.

LOL so now xfire can't be used in a sentence on this site?  What, did they shoehorn that rule in when GW2 launched and immediately started circling the drain?

Anyway, when SWTOR was showing similar numbers to what GW2 is right now, everybody here stuck a fork in it.  And now GW2 boxes are headed for the discount bin while Anet has no money coming in from subs.

The writer's contention that GW2 has succeeded where other MMOs have failed is complete garbage. 

Originally posted by Ahnog
The obvious reply to this is that Lucas Arts did remain. The game credits go to Lucas Arts, Bioware, and EA

THey did not say LA was removed from the credits as a whole. They said they were removed from the "Production Credits"., which you are conveiently overlooking. Looking at the screesnhots there posted earlier the first was "External Production credits", and various other different credits including Audio, so in the end you can not tell if the section of LA were removed from the credits or not. There could have been "Internal Production credits", or other Production credits, that got removed, which is being mentioned in the OP

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Chieftan
[mod edit]

 

I can't tell if you are being serious.

You provdie links to a site we aren't supposed to link to.

The links show a B2P MMO still holding #5 behind WoW's #4.

B2P depends more on boc sales and xpac sales then anything, cash shop is bonus.

The second link shows a P2P game which took longer, and much more money to develop, only at #11 after a FTP conversion.

I know that the site you linked to isn't for directly compring one game to another, just to identify trends.

That said, even if I would use that site's analytics to compare the two games, I'd say your evidence was less then compelling for your argument.

 

LOL so now xfire can't be used in a sentence on this site?  What, did they shoehorn that rule in when GW2 launched and immediately started circling the drain?

Anyway, when SWTOR was showing similar numbers to what GW2 is right now, everybody here stuck a fork in it.  And now GW2 boxes are headed for the discount bin while Anet has no money coming in from subs.

The writer's contention that GW2 has succeeded where other MMOs have failed is complete garbage. 

Now that City of Heroes has closed I am not touching GW2 or any game associated with NC Soft ever again. So as far as I am concerned SWTOR > GW2 + all other NC Soft games, but I am not posting about it on the forums, as I do not give a crap about GW2 success or failure. However all other MMOs (except NC Soft ones) > SWTOR

All I would like from SWTOR atm is the ability to purchase at least up to 12 char slots, with subbers able to purchase more, then I can play SWTOR again. With it being stuck at 2 or 6 makes it unplayable

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Chieftan
[mod edit]

 

I can't tell if you are being serious.

You provdie links to a site we aren't supposed to link to.

The links show a B2P MMO still holding #5 behind WoW's #4.

B2P depends more on boc sales and xpac sales then anything, cash shop is bonus.

The second link shows a P2P game which took longer, and much more money to develop, only at #11 after a FTP conversion.

I know that the site you linked to isn't for directly compring one game to another, just to identify trends.

That said, even if I would use that site's analytics to compare the two games, I'd say your evidence was less then compelling for your argument.

 

LOL so now xfire can't be used in a sentence on this site?  What, did they shoehorn that rule in when GW2 launched and immediately started circling the drain?

Anyway, when SWTOR was showing similar numbers to what GW2 is right now, everybody here stuck a fork in it.  And now GW2 boxes are headed for the discount bin while Anet has no money coming in from subs.

The writer's contention that GW2 has succeeded where other MMOs have failed is complete garbage. 

Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.

Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.

Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.

You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.

I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.

I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.

Originally posted by Psychow
What's the purpose ofthese threads? Who gives a shit. The game didn't do well. Say goodbye and move on. 

Its STAR WARS Psychow this is about fucking with peoples childhood memories, hopes and desires and nothing, I mean nothing is a serious as fucking with kids hopes and desires especially seen through the +10 googles of nostalgia.

Originally posted by Calerxes

Originally posted by Psychow
What's the purpose ofthese threads? Who gives a shit. The game didn't do well. Say goodbye and move on. 

 

Its STAR WARS Psychow this is about fucking with peoples childhood memories, hopes and desires and nothing, I mean nothing is a serious as fucking with kids hopes and desires especially seen through the +10 googles of nostalgia.

My childhood has already been fucked... I'm at the point of not giving a shit anymore and just play STO and some other games while I have an Xbox 360 and play the majority of games on that.

Also why wouldn't they know? Right now they're grubbing as much money as they can milk out of idiots.

Originally posted by lucasdeis

Originally posted by Sevenstar61

Originally posted by Elikal

Originally posted by Boldyn

What you got there is nothing more than the muppets you see on these forums who come running along screaming "I told you so!!" and states they said this before the game would launch.

 

I bet you I can make a hundred whiny posts and in a year or so, come back and show you that some of them were right. But I wont, since I have a life...

 

What's his agenda anyway? Hoping another company will read his statement and think that "Damn, we need to hire that guy, he has insight!"...

"Our" agenda is that companies LISTEN to critics in time, both followers/fans and critique from then inside and not remain opaque to critique, and NOT repeat the same mistakes in MMOs over and over! THAT is our agenda!

Our agenda are GOOD GAMES!

We all want good games.   For many people SWTOR is a great game, and you all try everything you can to silence their voices.

I love swtor, it's the best MMO i have never played before

You're not that far from the truth here.

I jus had a conversation with a co-worker the other day and we were talking about gaming and he asked me if I still play SWTOR. I told him that I joined the 2.5 million people and he asked what I meant by saying that.

I stared at him and asked whether he knew or not that the game had had a great start and a fast decline in numbers but he didn't have any clue about the initial sales, population drops or anything that is common knowledge among us here in MMORPG.com.

And we continued to discuss further and he said that he mostly PvPs and is pleased with it. He did say SWTOR is his first MMO, so he really doesn't know what colour are the pastures around the corner. I adviced him to not even go there and see how they are, because he was clearly happy with the game and wanted to play it and was having fun with it.

Sometimes ignorance is a bliss. And although we here are a bit better informed than people in general, we should probably keep our knowledge among us. Herd is happy when they don't smell the wolf.

Following with the main topic, this is a common practice for many companys that doean't want to be related with products they sponsor but know going to fail.

I worked for Games Workshop for several years and they did the same with WAR. 

Also their logo is at the failed product, they never talk about the game in their main products or give support to it in any form.

Is taboo for the company and I'm pretty sure LA does the same with SWTOR as they did with SWG during 2006-2008.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.

Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.

Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.

You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.

I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.

I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.

Welp, I was wrong.  The SWTOR server consolidations correlated with xfire's population data.  It wound up being a reasonably accurate source.

And now Warcraft leads GW2 by more than a margin of 2 to 1 and the gap is widening every week as GW2's playerbase evaporates.

Anet has no incentives to fall back on whatsoever as box sales continue falling and markdowns are immenint.

Also don't try to tell me SWTOR didn't have competition when it launched during the holiday season.  Seriously  just stop.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.

Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.

Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.

You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.

I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.

I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.

Welp, I was wrong.  The SWTOR server consolidations correlated with xfire's population data.  It wound up being a reasonably accurate source.

And now Warcraft leads GW2 by more than a margin of 2 to 1 and the gap is widening every week as GW2's playerbase evaporates.

Anet has no incentives to fall back on whatsoever as box sales continue falling and markdowns are immenint.

Also don't try to tell me SWTOR didn't have competition when it launched during the holiday season.  Seriously  just stop.

 

Anet has incentive to keep their gaming experience enjoyable so they can sell new xpacs. That said, their payment model does not depend on monthly subscription revenue.

I'm really not sure why you are going on about GW2 being a huge failure, because even if it was (which it wasn't) what does that have to do with SWTOR exactly. (OP quted the article for the bit about the row between LA+EA with BW)

As to SWTOR facing stiff competioon in its genre when released, I would have to say not som much. EA specificallly chose that date to both capitalize on Holiday sales and avoid direct competition with upcoming titles. THat is why the game was rushed out of closed Beta, with the sudden apperance of the Fleets as social hubs, and the removal of chat bubbles, match to chest, high rez textures, etc. and why the game desperatley tried to play catch up with UI custom ization and Groupfinder.

(No I'm not gong to cite common knowledge, if someone else wants to feel free.)

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Yes, they shoehorned that rule in because everyone is out to get SWTOR. Why would you even care? In the old threads about the unmentionable site, you said their data was useless. In fact, you said Nielson's was a better metric.

Just to jog your memory. GW2 is at #5, three and a half months later, ToR was #7. That number 7 was before MoP, D3, TSW, Terra, or LOTRO Rohan came out which GW2 although ahead of, has to contend with.

Again you point out that GW2 is a B2P game, and has "no money coming in from subs.", in it's life cycle, 3 and a half months from launch, TOR had announced it was giving everyone a free month of play to apologize for completely screwing up ranked war zones (which are still screwed up) and to pad their quarterly sub count. Really raking it in.

You are right though. You can find GW2 on sale for $50 instead of the $60 original price.

I'm not even going to ook up the ToR price.

I'm not even a GW2 fan, but your post compelled me to comment.

Welp, I was wrong.  The SWTOR server consolidations correlated with xfire's population data.  It wound up being a reasonably accurate source.

And now Warcraft leads GW2 by more than a margin of 2 to 1 and the gap is widening every week as GW2's playerbase evaporates.

Anet has no incentives to fall back on whatsoever as box sales continue falling and markdowns are immenint.

Also don't try to tell me SWTOR didn't have competition when it launched during the holiday season.  Seriously  just stop.

 

ANet closed their shop at launch for some period of time due to high sales, that would indicate they sold way more than they anticipated.

OTOH SWTOR opened enough servers for 3-4 times of what they sold, that would indicate they sold way less than they anticipated (which also reflects on sub money and GW2 doesnt really have that problem since their financial play relies mostly on box sales).

From that PoV, number of active GW2 players is pretty irrelevant as it only influences extra profit from cash shop, while that sam number is very relevant for SWTOR since it relies on subs (and when it failed on cash shop).

And, for gosh sakes, will people learn to stop subjectively set what failure is?

If you go to Olympics and set you goal as GOLD, if you dont win it you FAILED even if you got silver or bronze.

Even if few people subjectively think silver or bronze (or just getting to the Olympics) is still great and not failure to you is irrelevant since GOAL WASNT ACHIEVED.

Goal for SWTOR was firmly set by EA. GOAL WASNT ACHIEVED. It failed.

Originally posted by BlueLantern

and EA had little faith in it as well.

 

"When I was in EA we were deeply concerned about how boring SWTOR’s gameplay was. And that was back in 2010. They finally realized the truth and decided to delay the game for another year to try to fix it. The final build was more fun by several orders of magnitude than the previous, but it was still not enough. It felt like another WoW. They failed to innovate in any sensible way. They bet everything on the franchise, the VO and Bioware’s signature narrative (which if you have played Mass Effect 3, you’ll know it’s not what it used to be anymore). Lucasarts realized the game was going to fail and forced a new deal in 2011 that would remove them from the production credits. George Lucas may be a bad moviemaker, but who can doubt he is a terrific businessman."

 

since some people still to this day claim EAlouse was discredited somehow, here's a revealing quote from a guy who worked there up until a few months ago.

This is the launch documentary posted on the swtor site 1 day before launch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP5micfy28g&feature=player_embedded

Count the lucasarts guys.

Originally posted by mikahr

ANet closed their shop at launch for some period of time due to high sales, that would indicate they sold way more than they anticipated.

OTOH SWTOR opened enough servers for 3-4 times of what they sold, that would indicate they sold way less than they anticipated (which also reflects on sub money and GW2 doesnt really have that problem since their financial play relies mostly on box sales).

From that PoV, number of active GW2 players is pretty irrelevant as it only influences extra profit from cash shop, while that sam number is very relevant for SWTOR since it relies on subs (and when it failed on cash shop).

GW2 only sold 2 million copies.  If it sold more Anet would have told us by now.  That's really not very good for a game relying so heavily on box sales.

Retailers are now slashing the price on GW2...what exactly does that tell you? 

You're trying to tell me the GW2 cash shop is a huge success and SWTOR's isn't?  What evidence do you have to back that up??

Anet is in hot water right now.  Without revenue from box sales and a dying population to buy from the cash shop they're looking at NO INCOME to recoup development costs, host servers and fund development for future expansions.

The author was trying to say GW2 has triumphed when it's actually heading for the MMO dumpster.

Originally posted by Chieftan

Originally posted by mikahr

ANet closed their shop at launch for some period of time due to high sales, that would indicate they sold way more than they anticipated.

OTOH SWTOR opened enough servers for 3-4 times of what they sold, that would indicate they sold way less than they anticipated (which also reflects on sub money and GW2 doesnt really have that problem since their financial play relies mostly on box sales).

From that PoV, number of active GW2 players is pretty irrelevant as it only influences extra profit from cash shop, while that sam number is very relevant for SWTOR since it relies on subs (and when it failed on cash shop).

GW2 only sold 2 million copies.  If it sold more Anet would have told us by now.  That's really not very good for a game relying so heavily on box sales.

Retailers are now slashing the price on GW2...what exactly does that tell you? 

You're trying to tell me the GW2 cash shop is a huge success and SWTOR's isn't?  What evidence do you have to back that up??

Anet is in hot water right now.  Without revenue from box sales and a dying population to buy from the cash shop they're looking at NO INCOME to recoup development costs, host servers and fund development for future expansions.

The author was trying to say GW2 has triumphed when it's actually heading for the MMO dumpster.

Let's assume everything you so vehmently state is true.

GW2 only sold 2 million plus units and is thus a failure. (Hard to wrap my head around that one, but for the sake of this experiment, let's assume that is true.)

Let's also split hairs and attempt to say with a straight face that AoC, WAR, and others were slightly worse failures then SWTOR.

OK, now we know that GW2 is a failure and SWTOR wasn't necesarily the worst failure of all time.

Now what? As in what is your point? Even is we assume your controversial assumptions are true, how does this exactly paint a rosy picture for SWTOR?