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Hardware  » I jumped into Windows 8

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  deviliscious

Novice Member

Joined: 11/09/07
Posts: 6925

"Adjusts ponytails and pulls the lollipop out of my mouth"

11/28/12 3:42:06 PM#101
Originally posted by Ridelynn

 


Originally posted by deviliscious

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Ridelynn May not have to wait long for Windows 9: http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/28/with-windows-blue-microsoft-looks-to-take-a-page-out-of-apples-mac-os-x-playbook/ If this is true, and it really does release in Summer 2013, that would be a bit disconcerning. Only 9~ish months after release of Windows 8, it would feel like your essentially paying for a Service Pack. Yes, Apple releases OS'es more frequently (it's hard to get less frequent than MS, especially considering the gap between XP and Vista). But they have a very liberal DRM system (basically none - on your honor, since they lock it to Apple-only hardware), competitive pricing ($20 for the latest handful, and now on their App Store it's per account, not per computer) and releases are still a year to 18 months apart. Apple also doesn't have the entire Retail/OEM/Upgrade/64/32/RT/Lite/Premium/Media/Pro/Ultimate versioning, licensing and restriction crap that Microsoft has. A lower price on the part of MS would help make the pill easier to swallow, but without a total licensing overhaul (on par with Apple's simple licensing) it makes it still a nightmare to consider. Also, if the option to buy the OS by allowing advertising is allowed, I cringe. Advertisements are already in Win8 - they are all over the place in Microsoft's pre-loaded Metro apps, and I freakin' paid for this OS. If more ads start popping up I'm seriously considering just ditching all together. Right now, in Win8, I have avoided them by avoiding Metro.
I won't mind quicker releases if they keep their current upgrade pricing structure.  As Win8 was released I got 5 licenses through my MSDN subscription.  There was a small window where I could buy upgrades to Pro for $15.  A new system I bought through a major retailer offered a $15 upgrade.  I can buy Win8 Pro upgrade licenses for $70.  That isn't so bad to me.  If I actually have to pay $200 - $300 for a license every 6 months then I will be very unhappy. There are really only 3 versions of Windows, aside from servers, now - RT, Home, and Pro.  Apple basically has two, iOS and OSX.  I really wish Microsoft would get rid of Home and just offer the two - handhelds (RT) and desktop (Pro).  The features like bitlocker and remote desktop should really be included.  Hopefully as they have faster release cycles they will merge the desktop versions for easier maintenance. I don't like ads either, but then I don't use Modern apps on the desktop really.  There are a few games and some preinstalled apps that I've left installed but other than that I use all desktop versions of software including Skype, MS Essentials 2012, Office, and the rest of my non-Microsoft apps.  The modern versions just don't work well for me on the desktop, so I'm not really seeing this "they are all over the place" situation you describe.  Ads are everywhere in Google Play apps and Apple iOS apps, but you don't really have to see them in Chrome or OSX. Overall I like this direction.  This is especially true with account integration, configurability and workflow, and syncronization between devices.  They are finally creating an ecosystem like Apple and that makes me a much happier user.
I never use an upgrade though, and like to format my computer often, making this a terrible design for me personally. I always install a fresh operating system, as well as  completely formatting and switching out drives as well.  Seeing that it is only the Ultimate version of windows that offers the additional security features I like, I could not see me dishing out that kind of money every few months for a new OS. That would be absurd.

 

It is already extremely irritating as it is to have to call them everytime I replace a drive or format just to get windows activated again due to their  online product key sytem beiing  lacking in handling that properly.


 

Upgrade is actually a licensing term, not a method of installation.

An "Upgrade" edition can be installed fresh, just like any other. The difference is strictly price and licensing.

And there are vastly more "versions" of Windows than 3.

There is
Phone (if you want to count that, since your counting iOS),
RT (Arm),
Windows 8
Windows 8 Pro

That sounds simple - 4 versions.

Except there's a choice between 32 and 64-bit on the PC. Thankfully the 32 and 64 bit editions are included on the same install (unless you buy the Upgrade via the Upgrade Assistant, in which case you get the version corresponding to whatever you had installed previously). But you still have to make a decision when you install. That adds:

Windows 8 32
Windows 8 64
Windows 8 Pro 32
Windows 8 Pro 64

The real mess is the Retail vs Upgrade vs OEM editions - which are the same software, but all have different licensing rules. Since the 32 and 64 bit are distributed together (except for the aforementioned online upgrade), I'll concatenate them in this list. So that adds:

Windows 8 32/64 Retail Edition
Windows 8 Pro 32/64 Retail Edition
Windows 8 32/64 Upgrade Edition
Windows 8 Pro 32/64 Upgrade Edition
Windows 8 32/64 OEM Edition
Windows 8 Pro 32/64 OEM Edition

So not only are there different versions of the software, there are different versions of the license. So 8 total different versions (if we merge the 32 and 64 bit editions, 14 if you want to count them seperately).

It's miles better than it used to be: Windows 7 and prior were a mess, but it's still a long cry from Apple.

Add in that Apple licenses are now per account, and not per computer, and that's a coup de grâce. And Apple doesn't have an "Enterprise" edition anymore. OS X Server is now just a stand alone program that runs on top of OS X, not a separate OS (thankfully, it was a mess when it was it's own OS with very restrictive licensing). As if the desktop licensing wasn't bad enough, Microsoft server and enterprise licensing is extremely convoluted.

At least with Linux, there are probably thousands of distributions and versions, but they are mostly free, so if you get the wrong one, or want to change, you just get it and do it.

I hate apple and windows 8, but that is just me. I find windows 7 a better product for my needs. I do not like the UI of windows 8 at all, and I honestly have no use for the " fluff" for me, I honestly only want an operating system that does what I tell it to, and disable all the " fluff" I don't even run without a process manager going so I can see what it is doing all the time, and I shut down anything I do not like.  I only use windows because of it's compatibility, but really do not like the features they always try to cram into it already. Windows 8 just made that worse not better as far as I am concerned. I don;t even want sharing or networking on my computer and have to manually gut that stuff out  to get rid of it.

 I am aware they have many versions and licenses. That is why I choose to go with Windows7 ultimate 64 full version, non oem for my needs. 

Sorry for my usage of terms. I know what it is, just may not use the " proper term" but it is better than calling it a " thingymajig" like I do my  soldering iron. :)

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3407

 
OP  11/28/12 6:44:23 PM#102

I'm not trying to say that Win7/Win8/OS X is a better operating system - that is a different discussion.

I am trying to say that the Apple licensing and sales model is a lot better - and that if MS wants to go to an accelerated distribution schedule - from once every 2-3 years to every year (or sooner), that the current pricing and licensing scheme just won't work.

  3-4thElf

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/03/12
Posts: 495

11/28/12 6:53:34 PM#103

I like Windows 8's grouping myself.

I'm so sick and fucking tired of seeing folders illustrated with actual "folders" and faux texture this and that.

8 looks modern, simple, and really isn't that different. It's just presented different, and that makes the neanderthal in most people snarl.

"ME WANT SAME!"

a yo ho ho

  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2681

11/28/12 9:34:50 PM#104

I use windows 8 and so far, I only really go to the metro ui maybe 5-6 times a day.

Mostly because it has that pdf reader.  I have all my programs on my Naga sidebuttons (my computer, internet, winamp) and on my Deathstalker (all the openoffice stuffs, vc++, all my games, etc)

o.o

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  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16715

11/28/12 9:45:07 PM#105

If I owned a touchscreen on my desktop I would get it, but now it doesnt seem like a good idea.

I skipped Vista (except on my cheap HP laptop I had 9 months) and Windows ME, not all OSes are a step forward and some is not a bad idea to miss out.

W8 without a touchscreen seems meaningless to me.

  ViperHoundz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/29/10
Posts: 46

I > You

11/28/12 9:55:41 PM#106
The only thing I can say about windows 8 is this... Why for the love of God didnt microsoft  incorporate **Kinect* into this OS platform. It would have made the switch enjoyable and they could have pushed alot of kinect units. THis would have also made navigating the "Windows" way easy , either with hand motion, or voice.  Microsoft could have taken  OS's to the next level.
  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5818

11/28/12 10:49:14 PM#107

Originally posted by Ridelynn

I'm not trying to say that Win7/Win8/OS X is a better operating system - that is a different discussion.

I am trying to say that the Apple licensing and sales model is a lot better - and that if MS wants to go to an accelerated distribution schedule - from once every 2-3 years to every year (or sooner), that the current pricing and licensing scheme just won't work.

I totally agree.  Microsoft needs to streamline their offering.  Not to make excuses, but I think it's harder for them, just as it is for Linux distros because they can't control the hardware environment like Apple does.  It presents different strengths and weaknesses.

In response to your above post about the multiple versions.  I don't count the OEM or site license versions.  Those aren't readily available to the retail public.  I do think the 32/64-bit stuff is a confusing fiasco, but there isn't much to do about that.  There are some small quality of life improvements they could do with that, but short of them stopping support for 32-bit desktop hardware I don't know what they can do.

They are getting better, but do have a ways to go.

Originally posted by Castillle

I use windows 8 and so far, I only really go to the metro ui maybe 5-6 times a day.

Mostly because it has that pdf reader.  I have all my programs on my Naga sidebuttons (my computer, internet, winamp) and on my Deathstalker (all the openoffice stuffs, vc++, all my games, etc)

o.o

Do you like modern app pdf viewer?  I didn't mind it, but the full screen of the modern apps drives me crazy so I installed Adobe Reader.  That's my huge gripe about the modern apps, that and they seem to have reduced functionality compared to their desktop counterparts.

Curse you AquaScum!

  Kilrane

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/16/09
Posts: 225

11/28/12 11:51:39 PM#108
Originally posted by ViperHoundz
The only thing I can say about windows 8 is this... Why for the love of God didnt microsoft  incorporate **Kinect* into this OS platform. It would have made the switch enjoyable and they could have pushed alot of kinect units. THis would have also made navigating the "Windows" way easy , either with hand motion, or voice.  Microsoft could have taken  OS's to the next level.

This would be about as gimmicky as a touch screen on a laptop. Neat to play with for a few hours but no real improvements in actual functionality to the end user.

 

How is a gimmick like the Kinect supposed to bring Windows to the next level exactly?

  User Deleted
11/29/12 12:04:23 AM#109

Thankfully, I don't deal with consumer tech support anymore, so staying up on the latest OS aimed at them isn't really needed. I don't expect the Enterprise market to migrate over anytime soon, if ever, so I should be fine.

Having said that, there are rumors of Microsoft starting a yearly release schedule for their OS's next summer, like Apple.  Things could get weird if that's the case.

  miguksaram

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/03
Posts: 827

11/29/12 12:07:25 AM#110
Originally posted by Kilrane
Originally posted by ViperHoundz
The only thing I can say about windows 8 is this... Why for the love of God didnt microsoft  incorporate **Kinect* into this OS platform. It would have made the switch enjoyable and they could have pushed alot of kinect units. THis would have also made navigating the "Windows" way easy , either with hand motion, or voice.  Microsoft could have taken  OS's to the next level.

This would be about as gimmicky as a touch screen on a laptop. Neat to play with for a few hours but no real improvements in actual functionality to the end user.

 

How is a gimmick like the Kinect supposed to bring Windows to the next level exactly?

If it could allow one to sit back, say on the couch, and use hand gestures to navigate the various Metro functions I could easily see that is a reason to pick up Windows 8 specifically for a HTPC.  Just a thought anyway.

  Ridelynn

Elite Member

Joined: 12/19/10
Posts: 3407

 
OP  11/29/12 1:17:27 AM#111


Originally posted by miguksaram

Originally posted by Kilrane

Originally posted by ViperHoundz The only thing I can say about windows 8 is this... Why for the love of God didnt microsoft  incorporate **Kinect* into this OS platform. It would have made the switch enjoyable and they could have pushed alot of kinect units. THis would have also made navigating the "Windows" way easy , either with hand motion, or voice.  Microsoft could have taken  OS's to the next level.
This would be about as gimmicky as a touch screen on a laptop. Neat to play with for a few hours but no real improvements in actual functionality to the end user.   How is a gimmick like the Kinect supposed to bring Windows to the next level exactly?
If it could allow one to sit back, say on the couch, and use hand gestures to navigate the various Metro functions I could easily see that is a reason to pick up Windows 8 specifically for a HTPC.  Just a thought anyway.

Pretty sure the Xbox console players hated it for navigating the UI, and Metro is essentially the same as XBox Dashboard - complete with it's horizontal layout and tiles.

It's cool at first, and some games and apps can use it effectively, I can think of a lot of great applications for the PC (aside from porn). But aside from voice navigation (which isn't Kinect-exclusive), trying to navigate the menus is less like the Minority Report and more like an epileptic seizure.

  iamrta

Novice Member

Joined: 10/13/11
Posts: 164

11/29/12 1:28:22 AM#112
Built a Photoshop rig for my wife's classroom using 8 Pro. By the end of the night, after hours of fiddling with it, I wanted to shove my face through my LCD. 
  Castillle

Forum Bunny

Joined: 10/24/10
Posts: 2681

11/29/12 1:55:17 AM#113
-snippeh-

Do you like modern app pdf viewer?  I didn't mind it, but the full screen of the modern apps drives me crazy so I installed Adobe Reader.  That's my huge gripe about the modern apps, that and they seem to have reduced functionality compared to their desktop counterparts.

I dont really mind that its full screen to be honest.  I rarely use pdfs and when I do, its umm...to read and not do anything else

I never really liked adobe reader.  I used to use sumatra or whatever its called.  I just kept it in my flash drive and used it anywhere~

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  goozmania

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/18/07
Posts: 118

11/29/12 2:47:32 AM#114

This metro UI garbage is #^%^#^$ disaster. It's user friendly for idiots and people who don't use technology much, but completely counterintuitive for anyone who's good with computers. When I use W8, I'm in a constant battle with the UI, where it takes me up to 20x as long to do simple tasks.

I absolutely do not buy the whole "it's not that much different" or "it only took me 10 minutes to get used to it." That is such a wide load. It reminds me of my Android phone's upgrade to ICS, where numerous features were actually removed or replaced with less functional features that require more menu presses. You don't ^$%#& remove features when you update software; you're supposed to add new ones...

I have no desire, whatsoever, to have "apps" on my desktop computer. I absolutely hate clutter on my screen, which is what the metro crap is... I don't want to have to create 40 damned icons on my desktop to take the place of what the start menu used to do for me. I am OCD about having programs I'm not using open, even if they aren't using much system resources, and trying to keep all that crap closed is frustrating.

Everything about the Metro thing is just a complete mess, to me. I think it's ugly, not functional to me and completely overbearing; as if it is forcing me to use my computer its way. I would be ecstatic with the option to disable it and everything about it, completely... but then I'd have Windows 7.

Did I mention how ridiculous I think those hidden corner menus are? I just can't fathom how hundreds of millions of dollars went into this. I think we'd all be better off if they just used that money to save our Twinkies and Ding Dongs.

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3305

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

11/29/12 3:27:59 AM#115


Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Yamota I dont think this hybrid tablet-desktop OS is "where the wind is blowing". It just shows that Microsoft is out of touch as Apple was smart enough to realise that tablets/phones and desktops are vastly different animals and why they didnt bridge their desktop OS with their phone/tablet one. It is like trying to mimic driving a car like a motorcycle, sorry it cannot be done. They are too different.
still waiting on this interactive desktop experience :)

http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2010/06/02/is-the-minority-report-computer-technology-five-years-away/


I watched that, quite a nice watch. however the video is 2 years old, looks like 'they' have 3 years left to have a consumer product :P.


As much as technolagy increases it not matched with the human adoption rate.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Galadourn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/06/08
Posts: 1051

11/29/12 3:41:45 AM#116
I had the chance to test Win8 installed on a friend's PC, and frankly this OS is abyssmal; I don'tknow what MS thinks they will achieve, but this pos is not touching my PC anytime soon!

http://kck.st/Xo38HT

  whitez

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 26

11/29/12 3:58:37 AM#117

Once you got Start8 or something similar Windows 8 is as usable as Win 7, i have mine setup exactly same way as Win 7, add to it 4 seconds boot time from bios, and price which for me was £14 or £18 for Pro version. All games working just fine, so every app im using and so are the drivers. Dont get why all those people whining, how bad it is... It is a slight upgrade from Win 7 but i spent more on games every month than on whole new operating system that im gona use for few years to come.

 

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3305

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

11/29/12 4:17:29 AM#118

I actually think windows 8 could be quite powerfull.

I run a multiscreen setup with windows 8 and looking into getting a small touch screen for metro.

I think it would be great to have metro static on one monitor giving you easy access to web data and/or social media + launch programs and run search queries while you do all your work on the mainscreen...

Only problem with my idea is that i have not found a way to make metro static so that it will not close after an application has launched.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  Muke

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/07
Posts: 1613

11/29/12 4:25:41 AM#119

Microsoft sees the success of Apple with their Ipads and Iphones, and think "we want that too".

Windows 8 is only good for tablet computers and smartphones.

I worked with W8 on my computer at work as an structural engineer.....I can tell you, it's a pain and I reconnected a Windows 2000 pc because it's 100x better to work with.

As for games, I play EVE Online as well as casual other MMOs, I can't see myself doing those on a tablet sitting in a couch.

 

 

Windows 8, fun for playing multimedia, fun if you use Facebook and play with some flash apps on a tablet.....for everything else, it's rubbish.

"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

11/29/12 4:39:56 AM#120

What is good about Windows 8 is their OEM license.  You don't have to buy  new one when you reinstall it after changing your PC to newer or modyfiung it alot.  Of course at one time it can be intsallled only on one PC, but that's kinda obvious.  

You can even resell it once.  (person who bough it from you according to EULA cannot resell it again theoretically).

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