Originally posted by CalmOceans

The people who hate on the trinity model (it was more like quad or more in EQ), should come up with a viable alternative before they shoot it down.

And no, soloing or making all classes DPS is not a viable alternative.

People complain they couldn't find a healer or tank, that's not the game's fault, that's how the system works, it creates dependency, you are forced to engage with people and socialise. Unless the game falls below a treshold of a handful of people, the trinity model is amazing.

 

I agree with all of the above, though I will say that I actually prefer games like City of Heroes where the trinity is expanded on - you have your traditional trinity, but secondary functions like buffing, debuffing, and crowd control are all also extremely useful.

Originally posted by dreamscaper

Originally posted by CalmOceans

The people who hate on the trinity model (it was more like quad or more in EQ), should come up with a viable alternative before they shoot it down.

And no, soloing or making all classes DPS is not a viable alternative.

People complain they couldn't find a healer or tank, that's not the game's fault, that's how the system works, it creates dependency, you are forced to engage with people and socialise. Unless the game falls below a treshold of a handful of people, the trinity model is amazing.

 

 

I agree with all of the above, though I will say that I actually prefer games like City of Heroes where the trinity is expanded on - you have your traditional trinity, but secondary functions like buffing, debuffing, and crowd control are all also extremely useful.

City of heroes did the whole healing thing really well.

Historically, I always rolled healers. It was a lot of fun being "special" and I got treated well for being very good at it and especially being willing to do it for years. I have lots of great memories of the good times that came out of group events and teamwork.

But the rough part of it was being pidgeon-holed into a role and having to rely on others to do your job. Unless I constantly grouped, I had limited value with an exclusively healer build.

So these days I've been having fun building hybrid specs.

Originally posted by Coman

Originally posted by Iselin

Originally posted by Neo_Liberty

I think you miss the point.. classless roles are there for a reason... its more "realistic" no medical technician has the ability in real life or fantasy  to make someone completely healthy in like ten seconds while in combat... combat is boring and requires little movement or maneuvering.. in real life thats not the case... gw2 and other games are more realistic... therefore a healer is not necessary.

Realism is it? Ok, let's have amputees and dead is dead... and no fireballs coming out your fingers either... scratch magic... and super stealth in well-lit open places... forget assassins (no great loss there :) ) realism is a slippery slope. Let's talk gameplay and game systems not realism please.

You can have realism in a fantasy setting. It not a slippery slope at all. Having someone go completly stealthy and have people shoot fireball from there fingers is not unrealistic in a fantasty setting. Now having a human fall from a big distance without something (magical of phisical) catching him and he does not die is also in a fantasy setting unrealistic

Just listen to yourself. Fireballs are OK but healing isn't? And for your damage example you pick the one thing in most MMOs that will in fact kill you? Sorry that makes no sense.

A couple of day ago I bit on the Blizzard "10 days free" for innactive accounts. This was my first look at MOP and what I wanted to see and what I did was play a Monk.

The new Monk class is a very interesting class that can specialize into any of the 3 roles. I went for the Mistweaver healer spec which is in fact a viable melee-healer. 50% of the damage they dish out is a smart heal to whoever needs it most. This is not my first time using this type of mechanic. I first tried it in Warhammer Online with both the Archmage and the Warrior Priest and then again in rift with the Chloromancer. Blizzard has done a good job following the trend and have created a fun way to heal. Yes, they also have direct heals and the monk can be used that way, but it's either an occasioanl "oh shit" thing or a personal choice for those who prefer the old way. There is nothing boring about healing as a secondary effect off the damage you do unlike the routine health-bar watching mini-game.

There're also a lot of these "secondary effect" mechanics that happen in GW2 but they're just too weak. GW2 chose to go in the direction of "everyone is DPS" with the core mechanic being "roll to avoid" and they balanced around that. They could have balanced around the secondary buffs, debuffs and heals instead. Like it or not, heals are still needed there. "Roll-dodge" kiting can look a bit silly after a while and it just takes time away from using the talents and abilities you'd rather be using.

In GW2, I was on my 80 Guardian the other day in a level 50ish zone working on world completion. I ran into a DE with a champion and there were only 2 other players there. We gave it a shot and once the fight started I got aggro and the champ never wavered from coming after me. I tried everything I could at melee range and he was just doing too much damage when I couldn't avoid it...it was clear we wouldn't makke it. So I switched to my staff and kited ihim around a flagpole roll-dodging and firing off an ability when I could.

We did get him in the end and that sort of fight can be fun once or twice but really... it just looked silly: big bad guy chases player around flagpole while two other players follow behind weakly whacking at it for 5 minutes... comedy moment aside, it didn't feel any more rewarding to me than some of the better trinity-based fights I've had in other games.

Originally posted by CalmOceans

The people who hate on the trinity model (it was more like quad or more in EQ), should come up with a viable alternative before they shoot it down.

And no, soloing or making all classes DPS is not a viable alternative.

People complain they couldn't find a healer or tank, that's not the game's fault, that's how the system works, it creates dependency, you are forced to engage with people and socialise. Unless the game falls below a treshold of a handful of people, the trinity model is amazing.

 

Yes it is.

Diablo 3 is a good example. No trinity and combat works for small 4 man dungeons.

Originally posted by muffins89
i like healing.  but until they make it so it's not just staring at the ui boxes covering my screen i can do without it.  i think developers are slowly going towards something more engaging.  until they get there i'll be happy to let others heal themselves.

TERA and RaiderZ have done some interesting things with healing. You don't stare at the UI because they are free targeting games, so you have lock ons and area heals that force you to aim your heals at your teammates. Makes it much more fun and engaging since you can not only watch but be a part of combat and not have to stare at the UI. However both of those games have problems in other areas so I'm still waiting for a game that can do it right. WildStar so far looks to be that game, so crossing my fingers it turns out well.