Originally posted by Paddyspub
 only if they did a complete revamp of the game's engine,

If they do only that,it would be enough to bring some PvPers in.

Their combat system is not bad,but their engine/netcode is and that makes it superbad.

Nothing lasts. But it will hang around for a while, in my view.  If it's performing at or above the expectations of management, then it will continue. I should think that management would pay attention to their metrics in order to anticipate a day where the profit margin is not met. You'll indirectly feel the result of downtrending metrics in the form of announcements, delays, quality, or even less subtle ways.

The game could run for years in pseudo-maintenance mode with an ever decreasing cost by way of downsizing and other cuts.

That doesn't mean it will be an enjoyable experience for all the current players, but there'll be some that enjoy it just fine.

The game will last--in a way.  Unfortunately I feel like Bioware has backed itself into a corner with its initial design choices, though, and SWTOR will join the innumerable host of games that never recover from an early downturn in player numbers.  In an ideal scenario, the game would be adapted to support  systems-based gameplay, rather than more expensive content-based development.  I think that's the direction the genre is going, but this game sank its capital into the old model, ultimately just a bad bet.

The game also suffers from its IP.  Star Wars is a lot of things to a lot of people.  I think the most cost-effective thing to do for the life of the game, frankly, would be to make it more like SWG.  Trouble is, due to the initial design, that represents a huge up front cost, and due to the polarizing nature of the IP, to say nothing of its previous owner's handling of licenses, any changes to make the game more sandboxy would be derided by KOTOR fans as a departure from formula--and rightly so--and simultaneously derided by SWG fans as too little too late.  Nobody's ever going to spend enough to turn this game into something that can satisfy the entire potential player base.

What that means is that we'll see something between holding pattern and aggressive content production, depending on revenue.  Neither, however, will turn the game into the powerhouse it could have been, and if I were Disney, I'd already be looking for a new developer for the next Star Wars MMO.

Originally posted by Draron

Yes, the game will last. Anyone who says otherwise is confusing lasting with thriving or is in the group here on these boards that likes to overexagerrate. 

Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

Vanguard is not thriving, far from it, but will last as does not cost much to keep running.

Warhammer is probably still going as does not cost much to run either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

If EA bring out a new game / project that gives them way more profit than SWTOR, then I do not see them burdening themselves with this costly bad rep beast.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Draron

Yes, the game will last. Anyone who says otherwise is confusing lasting with thriving or is in the group here on these boards that likes to overexagerrate. 

Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

Vanguard is not thriving, far from it, but will last as does not cost much to keep running.

Warhammer is probably still going as does not cost much to run either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

If EA bring out a new game / project that gives them way more profit than SWTOR, then I do not see them burdening themselves with this costly bad rep beast.

An operating cost of $7.5 million a month seems high to me. That's not me doubting your facts; I remember reading that before launch. But it is only just now sinking in for me to think about how much it costs to keep the lights on for SWTOR.

It was a bad design from start to finish; top to bottom.

It's no wonder why the F2P model is so restrictive and expensive.

Originally posted by vayman

An operating cost of $7.5 million a month seems high to me. That's not me doubting your facts; I remember reading that before launch. But it is only just now sinking in for me to think about how much it costs to keep the lights on for SWTOR.

It was a bad design from start to finish; top to bottom.

It's no wonder why the F2P model is so restrictive and expensive.

It doesnt cost that much any more.

But, as a part of the package of cutting expenses:

- no monthly updates but 1/4 of update every 6 weeks (so 1 update every 6 months) and lot of rehashed content (HK and space combat)

- no story content

- reduced in number/quality community team

- reduced in number/quality customer support

- things that might have been fixed will probably never get fixed

...

Originally posted by karmath
Er? It's allready dead?

Bullseye.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Draron

Yes, the game will last. Anyone who says otherwise is confusing lasting with thriving or is in the group here on these boards that likes to overexagerrate. 

Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

Vanguard is not thriving, far from it, but will last as does not cost much to keep running.

Warhammer is probably still going as does not cost much to run either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

If EA bring out a new game / project that gives them way more profit than SWTOR, then I do not see them burdening themselves with this costly bad rep beast.

I'm not going to get into a debate, but the article was written in August. There has been one big team cleaning since then and another lesser one. The 500k subscriber figure isn't set in stone, but rather was set by Bioware's unreasonable expectations. They can scale the team to meet subscription numbers and still be profitable just as most other MMO's do, even if it takes them longer to recoup the costs of the game. 

Originally posted by Draron

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Draron

Yes, the game will last. Anyone who says otherwise is confusing lasting with thriving or is in the group here on these boards that likes to overexagerrate. 

Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

Vanguard is not thriving, far from it, but will last as does not cost much to keep running.

Warhammer is probably still going as does not cost much to run either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

If EA bring out a new game / project that gives them way more profit than SWTOR, then I do not see them burdening themselves with this costly bad rep beast.

I'm not going to get into a debate, but the article was written in August. There has been one big team cleaning since then and another lesser one. Bioware can scale the team to meet subscription numbers and still be profitable, even if it takes them longer to recoup the costs of the game. 

Maybe, but it does not add confidence, and they should have just said nothing.

I kept at SWG as everything SOE and LA said, implied it was going to carry on for longer, and more content was in the pipeline, same with City of heroes, I even paid 6 months sub to that, then 1 week later they announced its closure.

EA are just doing the opposite. Even if they made it all rosy I would have my doubts after SWG and CoH, but for EA to keep saying things that make the game not seem to last, and to think the game will last from it, is just nuts!

I thought all team cleaning was done before then?

Also like I said if they plan on moving forward, which no doubt they are, and bring out another game that does not need team cleaning or loss of staff, and can get more profit from it, then I do not see them burdening themselves with SWTOR

I doubt the game will shut down until about a year, and that is plenty of time for everyone to get the most out of it, and with the amount of new content they add, you can be done with all that within a week. The people who still play must be addicted to monotous repetition, and no desire for advancing.

Basically if anyone plans on playing this at all, it is best to play it now or probably never will if hold back. The game is the best it is going to get.

Originally posted by Draron

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Draron

Yes, the game will last. Anyone who says otherwise is confusing lasting with thriving or is in the group here on these boards that likes to overexagerrate. 

Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

Vanguard is not thriving, far from it, but will last as does not cost much to keep running.

Warhammer is probably still going as does not cost much to run either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

The President of EA Labels Frank Gibeau said the Star Wars game would still break even so long as it maintained 500,000 subscribers, but admitted that its current performance was "not good enough".

If EA bring out a new game / project that gives them way more profit than SWTOR, then I do not see them burdening themselves with this costly bad rep beast.

I'm not going to get into a debate, but the article was written in August. There has been one big team cleaning since then and another lesser one. The 500k subscriber figure isn't set in stone, but rather was set by Bioware's unreasonable expectations. They can scale the team to meet subscription numbers and still be profitable just as most other MMO's do, even if it takes them longer to recoup the costs of the game. 

The two major layoffs were in May and July. As you pointed out, EA then stated 500k subs as their profitability line in August.

EA also reported at that time they had between one million and 500k subs. EA failed to report any sub numbers October 30th.

The game is now FTP.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

That's not true anymore.  They've laid off a lot of people and cut back on content creation.  They don't need that much money per month to break even.  We have no idea what their break even point is.  Given the lackluster response to F2P, thanks in large part to no TV advertising like LOTRO used, I expect a lot more layoffs in the coming months.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by superniceguy

Thing is though with SWTOR it needs to thrive to survive, and if it does not thrive then it will not last, because SWTOR is in a unique position compared to other MMOs. SWTOR needs the equivalent of 500K subs to break even, that is $7.5 million per month. All other MMOs do not need that much to survive / last.

That's not true anymore.  They've laid off a lot of people and cut back on content creation.  They don't need that much money per month to break even.  We have no idea what their break even point is.  Given the lackluster response to F2P, thanks in large part to no TV advertising like LOTRO used, I expect a lot more layoffs in the coming months.

That statement was made in August AFTER the cut backs and F2P

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19077238

I'll say it again. The layoffs were in May and July.

The 500k subscribers  statement was reiterated in August as break even.

If you think the $7.5 million a month needed to break even is a lie take it up with EA. They said it.

If by last you mean "not close down" then yes: they could stop all development on this title and run the game for almost nothing, while still generating revenue from the diehards.

If by last do mean "be popular or relevant in gaming circles", that time has passed already.

TOR was simply the most expensive, most hyped, mediocre game made so far, and now that the newness has worn off, it continues its slide into irrelevancy.

Originally posted by Karahandras
Probably going to last as long as the contract.

As long as the Disney take over does not affact it in any way.

I wonder if Lucas would have sold to Disney if SWTOR became more successful than WOW? I doubt it.

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Karahandras
Probably going to last as long as the contract.

As long as the Disney take over does not affact it in any way.

I wonder if Lucas wouls have sold to Disney if SWTOR became more successful than WOW? I doubt it.

lucus selling to disney has nothing at all due to how popular swtor is or will be , this is his legacy and if you read up on entertainment sites you will see that episode 7 8 and 9 were planned way before the sell even went final. Hell he met with Mark Hammell months before even talking to disney according to hammell. Bioware and EA license the IP rights to the game just like turbine does for LOTR online and while it might be a good chunk of change , its drops in a bucket compared to what lucas industrial lighting makes for movies and design. This Disney move was something he wanted to do to create his own legacy , games are not even in his mind i bet.