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11/27/12 8:51:03 AM#21
Originally posted by Hostar Yep this hits the nail on the head. With a game as popular as the Elder Scrolls you will either end up with dozens to hundreds of servers of unaccessable players, or they can do the instancing option. Would anyone claim that EQ2 isnt a MMO? No. Yet that game has multiple instances of zones when they get overpopulated (usually only at the start of an expansion). Its just a fact of life. Yes eventually there will be servers capable of handling millions of players at once, but for now they have to be realistic with the options. |
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11/27/12 8:52:31 AM#22
My guess would be that this is the opposite of what would happen. The point of having those shards is that they can keep a decent population around all players. So channel 1 would get nearly full then channel 2 would get nearly full, then channel 3 would get nearly full, etc. Whatever channel you're in when you login is determined by the population and where the other people in your friends list are, not by which channel you were in last night when you logged out. The persistence would be the people you normally hang out with. Since it's a theme park, the server itself would have persistence, but that's because nothing really changes in a theme park server except the people. There wouldn't be any persistence in the people you didn't know and didn't usually hang out with. But then...how much persistence is there in the people you don't know on a theme park server anyway? Join the League For Gamers. |
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11/27/12 8:53:25 AM#23
Originally posted by zimike The difference being that ESO will have many more players. Its easy to tout having a single game world without instancing when you are a niche game with few players. |
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11/27/12 8:53:32 AM#24
Originally posted by MyTabbycat I will answer that. In a Single Server you eventually get to know other players, that creates a community. In Megaservers, you are just a number who plays together with another number. This is not why MMORPGs came about. This is more a Multiplayer design. I finally gave up on WOW because the Megaservers. Personally I hate them, they are so community unfriendly and I believe it will harm any MMO who abuse it. Zenimax.......players want Skyrim Online. They do NOT want WOWTES |
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11/27/12 8:54:05 AM#25
Look at what planetside 2 can handle
You don't need to do all this immersion breaking instancing nonsense. |
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11/27/12 8:56:29 AM#26
Originally posted by ShakyMo Look at the degree of character customisation in Planetside 2. Or lack thereof I should say. If you use fewer assets you can fit more players in. |
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11/27/12 9:02:59 AM#27
Originally posted by D_TOX Really having +200 plus players standing around in a small in or house is immersive? havinf a thousand players all camping the same rabbit spawn or boss is fun??? Eve is a different type of game and even then you get ebnough players in the same spot and the lagfeast will make the game unplayable with actions taking 30 seconds or more just to fire off. you want more of that??? Personally i don't need hundreds of other players in every small town or dungeon i visit. With every twit dancing on the mailboxes or making every lost secret dungeon into grandcentral station. |
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11/27/12 9:13:02 AM#28
Originally posted by ste2000 This pretty much nails it. In FFXI I used to regularly bump into the same players on my server when I was out adventuring. This led me to eventually get to know them and form some friendships that have spanned multiple games. The 'top players' on the server also became well known and recognisable as you would see them regularly and stare in envy at their equipment. That doesn't happen in modern MMOs because the way the servers are designed you never really meet the same player more than once unless you already knew them. In WoW or any MMO since I have never built a lasting friendship with any player whereas the games before that introduced me to dozens of friends-to-be. Isolated servers or worlds without phasing, instancing or overflow systems are simply better for the game community. In my opinion that's worth sacrificing the 'convenience' those systems may otherwise offer. (A lot of people often respond to this with the 'join a guild' argument as well. This doesn't hold up though because a guild basically isolates you from the rest of the community by giving you no reason to interact with anyone outside of the guild and serves to only compound the problem). |
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11/27/12 9:15:36 AM#29
You're describing the difference between DAoC and WoW, not the difference between ESO with servers and ESO with channels. The player experience is going to be the same in both cases. At most 100 to 150 people that each player "knows", and thousands of faceless strangers running around. Short of limiting the population to 500 players or less per server, there's nothing ESO could do about this. Join the League For Gamers. |
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11/27/12 9:21:24 AM#30
The statement does not mean the gameworld is split by instances and even then is that not how TES is build anyway? Caves, cities and even houses are instanced in the singleplayer version of the game.
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11/27/12 9:21:27 AM#31
Originally posted by ste2000 This isn't necessarily true. You can meet people just as easily with a phasing setup than with a standard server setup. The people are still there to be met. I think it's more that games so far that have seen heavy phasing have also been plagued with what I call "canned content." with canned content you either wait in a line or stumble upon something scripted and the players that are chosen to or happen to be around just go until the script is over and then you leave. Nine times out of ten, no one asks to go deeper into a dungeon or further along, or to something more challenging. They just keep their mouths shut and either go again or leave.
In fact, we know so little about how this will actually work, it's just as easy to praise it as genius as it is to condemn it as evil. Let's just make a little list of things that I can imagine won't happen because ZOS chose this direction. Well, you'd never have to discover a friend plats the game but on a different server so one of you has to start over. You'd never have to play an alternate because your server was down for maintenance but others weren't. You wouldn't have to play with people under the age of 25. You wouldn't have to play with non-role players or role players.To be honest, with their setup, it's sounding more and more likely that I'll meet someone that I will actually want to talk to.
And really, I fail to see any argument that having people still split up, but on inaccessible servers is somehow more immersive or conducive to community building. Sure, you won't hear the phrase,"I played Daggerfall on the Mehrunes Dagon server," but it should be more about the people than anything. So how exactly is having different phases of the world completely split more conducive to community building? I maintain that it isn't, necessarily. Especially if TSO stays away from canned content, which they seem to at least in PvP.
I think the OP hasn't thought this one through. |
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11/27/12 9:27:11 AM#32
Originally posted by Jostle And really, I fail to see any argument that having people still split up, but on inaccessible servers is somehow more immersive or conducive to community building. Sure, you won't hear the phrase,"I played Daggerfall on the Mehrunes Dagon server," but it should be more about the people than anything. So how exactly is having different phases of the world completely split more conducive to community building? I maintain that it isn't, necessarily. Especially if TSO stays away from canned content, which they seem to at least in PvP. I agree and like the statement in the OP. The system is smart about putting you with your friends. So if your about community building and meet people you like you befriend them and the server will try to keep you with as many friend as possible and the friend of you friend will also be there and there friend might also join that automaticly. The changes you like the friends of your friends are bigger then that you like some random people. |
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11/27/12 9:31:25 AM#33
Originally posted by MyTabbycat
This.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating. |
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11/27/12 9:39:15 AM#34
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Yes you do, PS2 dont' have shitload of NPCs, PS2 dont have shitload of mobs, PS2 don't have breathtaken vista like awesome deep forrests, cool swamps, nice small hamlets. what PS2 do have a is poor toon customization and a desert planet with some snow and some woodland area with some grass. That's why you can have big battles in that game beacuse the game dosen't have to render as much so you can have an enjoyable experince and not a lag fest.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating. |
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11/27/12 9:41:24 AM#35
Deal breaker for me also.
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11/27/12 9:42:18 AM#36
Originally posted by Torgrim "Yes you do" - Regarding a statement claiming you do not need immersion breaking nonsense. It seems this man here does not wish for immersive games. So I ask why he is here and what is intentions are. I will remind you among vocal MMO veterans you are a minority, we're seeing a trend where the over-board conveinence is seeing it's negatives. Mainly that the games bear no weight and die instantaneously. Awaiting - Darkfall: Unholy Wars |
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11/27/12 9:52:15 AM#37
Originally posted by D_TOX Indeed, it feels so backward. It's lazy design, not just for bandwidth and server structure (hello folks, Ultima Online and EVE have been doing this for the last decades and both are alive, though the first one has different servers) but also for content, especially if you're using a themepark design. You'd need to keep these areas interesting and when the world is just about combat quest hubs, making a game world large enough to not need instancing would be quite inefficient. |
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11/27/12 9:53:04 AM#38
So, if a player starts out in "Instance 1", can they farm the copper vein node in front of them and then switch to "Instance 2" to farm it's copper vein? And so on to Instances 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc? Then come back to Instance 1 and start all over again? Or do the same with MOBs? How easy will it be for players to switch instances? - Al Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. |
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11/27/12 11:09:01 AM#39
You guys responding to my "well look at planetside 2" post.
Yes planetside 2 cuts down on the character creation options But.... It has to also do stuff tab Target mmos don't like trace bullet arcs, calculate momentum physics and what have you. If Sony can pull off what they've done with planetside 2. And ccp with eve and to a lesser extent arenanet with gw2. Then devs that make these highly instanced games like swtor are either A) bad at coding B) lazy and think they can get away with it C) for some bizarre reason think its actually better that way. Planetside 2 proves you can make a modern mmo with modern graphics (and a shitload if other stuff going on that most mmos won't have to worry about) while having ZERO instancing and minimal zoning (really minimal like wow level of zoning) |
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11/27/12 11:39:56 AM#40
Originally posted by EricDanie
Ultima Online had simple 2D graphics and EVE has vast amount of emtyness AND instances (solarsystems) and if you are a EVE player and you have been into fleet battles with 600+ players you should know it lags a lot for many people. It's simple Great graphics=instances Poor graphics= almost none instance
Personly I really like this mega server structure no more play a toon up to lvl 30 and my friends tries to join after a few weeks on my full server they can't so they roll on another server so either I have to pay for a server transfer or reroll a new toon.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating. |
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