Originally posted by SBE1

I was stunned that as a returning "premium" player, I was asked which 2 of my characters I wanted to play.  I didn't want to play any of my old characters, I wanted to make a new one to play a new story.  Well, that required that I delete almost all of my old characters!   Are you kidding?  What if later I decide that I want to subscribe again....and now most of my characters are gone!  What a joke.

Hence, I had to create a completely new account, which means that I'm not a "premium" or "preferred" F2P character.  As such, a lot of the things I was expecting as a previous subscriber were now completely gone.

WTF!?

As a result, I think I played about 3 hours on my new character and haven't logged back in.  It's just too restrictive.  I was amazed that some of the quest rewards (under lvl 10) were locked! I mean, that's really really too many restrictions.

+1 a returned ex-subscriber; +1 a new account. Without doubt EA's F2P model will be heralded as a triumph come EA's next results!

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by funyahns

 I think a good portion of you guys are insane.  Stuff like the game is not the problem, people not wanting to pay is.  Or the self entitlement thing.  Want to know a major problem? Forum goers at swtor website, being deragatory and confrontational, trying to come up with restrictions to add themselves.  Just overall douche behavior at the finest. Call the potential spenders names and stuff, hell I wonder how many people see that and just pass up the game.  Not sure what it is like in game. I did the beta stuff and got  to like 15 or so and then never bought the game.  But if the chat in game is ever 1/8 as noxious and poisonous as most of the forum discussion then I will be beyond shocked if a large amount of people 1.)Get a membership. 2.)Spend much money on cash shop

According to this thread on the official forums:- This game needs to die!

it is just as bad in game

"I was on tython (I decided to play a jedi knight) and whenever a new person asked a question what was the answer they got, a insult, or a sarcastic remark. Now if I was a newcomer I would be mad, mad to the point of quitting. These are people we need to keep the game alive, but no making them mad is the better way to go so they don't play anymore."
 

I think it is down to the fact that the game is single player centric and people just want to play the game and not be bothered by anyone else. ergo SWTORs game design is complete failure for a MMO, and so the game is the problem.

Just like any game, it all depends on the server and server type I'm sure. I play on Ebonhawk and the community has been great, both on my Jedi Knight who started on Tython and on my Sith Warrior, who is now lvl 24. I even asked noob questions myself on Tython and received both /tells and help in general chat on how to do things. Between the community being very helpful and talkative, and wanting to group a lot, it's made my return more pleasant than I anticipated.

Long story short, if people are treating you bad, reroll on a different server. Ebonhawk is a RP-PvE server, perhaps those rude people are on regular PvE or PvP servers. 

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by Corehaven

To all those that say, " You have no right to complain about something that's free...." 

 

Well......you could leave a flaming bag of poo on my porch and even though its free, I'd complain about it.  " But no one is leaving anything on your porch technically.  This is something you could just ignore...." 

 

Which is true.  Except they could also be offering free flaming bags of poo near the local intersection at the "Flaming Bag of Poo" stand.  Would people complain about it?  Yea.  They'd say, " Have you seen that ridiculous stand near the interseciton trying to give out free bags of poo?  Why?  That's just stupid.  Nobody wants that. " 

 

What does a free flaming bag of poo have to do with Swtors F2P model?  I might be tempted more to take the free flaming bag of poo thats what.  In other words.......EVERYTHING. 

Great Explanation!

Also I think these people have not played any other F2P game as F2P, and if they do play them they sub to them so just assume that they are all as restrictive in F2P.

I played DDO F2P and it was pretty restrictive too. You couldn't play certain races or classes without buying them first, and a lot of the content was gated off until you bought it. Content that was released with the game at release. I'm sure they had other restrictions, but  I don't remember since it's been ages since I played it.

Originally posted by nate1980

I played DDO F2P and it was pretty restrictive too. You couldn't play certain races or classes without buying them first, and a lot of the content was gated off until you bought it. Content that was released with the game at release. I'm sure they had other restrictions, but  I don't remember since it's been ages since I played it.

The restrictions in DDO were content specific, and you could unlock that content without paying (although it does take a lot of grinding). Turbine's ethos is pretty sound: you pay for the content if and when you want to play through that content, and not before. The basic gameplay is left in tact for ALL players, and there are little to no restrictions on what you can do outside of experiencing the actual content "brackets" that you have to pay for. It's not different to selling DLC for a single player game, where players pay for that content if and when they wish to experience it.

It's worth noting that Turbine don't charge for quick bars, and don't force you to buy a license to wear high end gear ;D THAT'S the sort of restriction some of us are angry about. Content restrictions are fine.

The other thing that annoys me is the way former paying customers have been treated:

I had purchased DDO previously, and had paid a number of sub months on the account when it converted. From memory - and I may be wrong, but I don't think I am - I received access to most (if not all) of the content I had gone through on my main character when the switch over occurred. Not only that, but I got a free ledger of Turbine Points to spend on new content in return for my former purchase. None of my characters were locked out, and my account was granted particular benefits for being a former subscriber.

The same is true of LotRo. I was granted access to certain adventure packs based on how far I had progressed, and received a number of microtransaction unlocks based on the state of my account at change over. I again received a free ledger of Turbine Points to spend on content.

In both cases, I was handomly rewarded for being a former subscriber, and for having purchased both games. My characters were not restricted out of content that had become microtransaction based. Effectively, everything that I had achieved or could achieve when the F2P conversions of both games happened was available to me AFTER the F2P conversions. I was upsold on new content, not downsold on stuff I had already had access to when I purchased the game.

Even in STO, my account was buffed when the F2P conversion happened, and I have access to content that would now cost me money on a new account. Again, as a former player I was upsold on new content, not downsold on old content that I'd already achieved or passed. Same applies to Champions Online.

The same thing happened with Aion - upsold on new content, with access to most (if not all) of the old content I had achieved or passed, along with a reasonable amount of MT currency to spend at my leisure.

The same is true of Everquest 2 - upsold on new content, with full access to most (if not all) of the old content I had acieved or passed, along with a reasonable amount of MT currency to spend at my leisure.

The pattern is clear: every game outside of SWTOR that has pursued a F2P conversion has been careful to treat former and existing paying customers with a degree of care, upselling them on new content and feature (and certainly NOT removing access to features and content they'd already experienced). And none of them have tried to sell me quickbars -_-

I think the problem here should be pretty clear right now.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by superniceguy

Originally posted by funyahns

 I think a good portion of you guys are insane.  Stuff like the game is not the problem, people not wanting to pay is.  Or the self entitlement thing.  Want to know a major problem? Forum goers at swtor website, being deragatory and confrontational, trying to come up with restrictions to add themselves.  Just overall douche behavior at the finest. Call the potential spenders names and stuff, hell I wonder how many people see that and just pass up the game.  Not sure what it is like in game. I did the beta stuff and got  to like 15 or so and then never bought the game.  But if the chat in game is ever 1/8 as noxious and poisonous as most of the forum discussion then I will be beyond shocked if a large amount of people 1.)Get a membership. 2.)Spend much money on cash shop

According to this thread on the official forums:- This game needs to die!

it is just as bad in game

"I was on tython (I decided to play a jedi knight) and whenever a new person asked a question what was the answer they got, a insult, or a sarcastic remark. Now if I was a newcomer I would be mad, mad to the point of quitting. These are people we need to keep the game alive, but no making them mad is the better way to go so they don't play anymore."
 

I think it is down to the fact that the game is single player centric and people just want to play the game and not be bothered by anyone else. ergo SWTORs game design is complete failure for a MMO, and so the game is the problem.

Just like any game, it all depends on the server and server type I'm sure. I play on Ebonhawk and the community has been great, both on my Jedi Knight who started on Tython and on my Sith Warrior, who is now lvl 24. I even asked noob questions myself on Tython and received both /tells and help in general chat on how to do things. Between the community being very helpful and talkative, and wanting to group a lot, it's made my return more pleasant than I anticipated.

Long story short, if people are treating you bad, reroll on a different server. Ebonhawk is a RP-PvE server, perhaps those rude people are on regular PvE or PvP servers. 

The Ebon Hawk is great. Welcome to our little heaven :)

Edit: Just please do not mention ever word bacon... for some reason players here are loving this word above anything else ....

Originally posted by junzo316
I was caught off-guard when I realized that I couldn't find the "Hide Helm" option, to hide the hideous thing that was on my head.  I soon learned that you had to purchase it....WHAT!?!  That's just crazy.  Also, the fact that I have to sub a month to get my "complimentary" cartel points for prior subs and my collector's edition purchase....just WOW!  EA made some stupid mistakes with the f2p conversion.

Hide helm is a paid service? WTF? When i played most of us hated the helms.

Originally posted by Dkompoze
You cant cry over any kind of FTP in any game. I mean you could just pay the sub and quit being cheap. Then your tears would be moot. Just saying.

Agreed, most F2P are just glorified trials to see if you like the game, Aion is prob the most fair F2P but most of the rest will cost you money especially if you are hard core.  F2P has been around for a long time now, most people seem to be clueless, I guess it is just a good excuse for some people to complain

Originally posted by eddieg50

Originally posted by Dkompoze
You cant cry over any kind of FTP in any game. I mean you could just pay the sub and quit being cheap. Then your tears would be moot. Just saying.

Agreed, most F2P are just glorified trials to see if you like the game, Aion is prob the most fair F2P but most of the rest will cost you money especially if you are hard core.  F2P has been around for a long time now, most people seem to be clueless, I guess it is just a good excuse for some people to complain

[mod edit]

I played Runes of Magic from level 0 to cap without paying a dime. I could then carry on playing without having to spend a dime. Granted, my experience would have been enhanced - and in some respects made easier - by paying for certain components every now and then, but... I didn't have to, so I didn't.

In Star Trek Online, I played from level 0 to cap without spending a penny. I then spent £50 ($75) on the game, and haven't spent a penny since. Again, my experience would certainly be enhanced by DOFF spam, as well as buying more ships... but I don't have to, and I can still enjoy the game. More importantly... I enjoy the game thoroughly and it doesn't cost me as much as a sub game.

It's dishonest to try to misconstrue the model by saying that "most f2p games are just glorified trials" because this isn't true. SWTOR F2P is a glorified trial, but it is the exception... and certainly not the rule. "MOST" free to play games actually have a reasonable "FREE" way of playing the game; that's the entire point of the model.

[mod edit]

Originally posted by nate1980

...how would you of done it? Keep in mind that the Cartel Market needs to offer things that nearly everyone is going to want to buy. You can't have people just playing the game for free indefinitely or only charging for things that only a select type of player would pay for. If they did that, they'd never make any money and that's the whole point in making the game F2P, to increase profits over the pure P2P model.

I'm asking this, because people keep complaining about the restrictions. What did people expect, a free ride until they got tired of the game? To not spend any money in the near future, possibly for over a month? To only be restricted in ways that people don't mind? If players don't mind the restrictions, then they'd be less likely to pony over the dough.

IMHO, I think people who are complaining don't deserve to be. Anytime you get something for free, you should never complain, then again, I grew up poor, so maybe I was brought up differently. 

If I was Bioware, I would have rationed off the whole draw of the game and made F2P players pay to access it in bits and pieces. The main draw is the single player class stories. If you have to pay money to unlock each Chapter per character, then you'd accomplish two things. Get rid of the F2P players that don't ever intend to pay a dime, because they're only playing to finish off all the class stories. The second is to profit off your best feature. Sort of like unlocking content packs in DDO.

Look no further than Aion.

If you are going to take the strong arm approach to F2P like SWTOR and SoE games, dont bother. Just make a free trial up to a certain level, because thats all you are presenting anyway since F2P isnt a viable play choice once you reach max level.

Games that pretend to be F2P (but are really 'freemium') which severely limit character progression or power are just annoying to MMO players. Yes you get content for 'free'. You also get to be treated as a leper for 'free' by the existing community.

If you really want to go F2P, do it properly like Aion. Move towards selling convenience items, appearance items and mounts. Not making players who dont subscribe worthless.

Originally posted by asmkm22

I don't know why people keep acting like SWG was doing so well.  It was bleeding subs from month one, and never really recovered.

No it wasn't...

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Originally posted by asmkm22

I don't know why people keep acting like SWG was doing so well.  It was bleeding subs from month one, and never really recovered.

No it wasn't...

 

Your chart proves his point.

It was launched and it ramped up in the first month or so and then dropped.

It popped up for JTLS and then dropped again and again and again.

On topic: To give returning players a lick at the item shop spoon I'd of given the cartel coins to anyone that once subscribed and not held them behind a resub fee.

I'd also not of messed with the UI slots since one of the biggest complaints players had was the UI and their first question when returning will be "WTF happened to my UI?"  Which means their very first experience when returning to the game is a negative one.

Do they even want people to return at this point?

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Originally posted by asmkm22

I don't know why people keep acting like SWG was doing so well.  It was bleeding subs from month one, and never really recovered.

No it wasn't...

It lost 50,000 subscribers in the quarter prior to the combat upgrade, which was around WoWs release/initial take off period. A loss of 50,000 subs to a game with only 300,000 subs would count as bleeding, I'm afraid. Tis a huge portion of the player base. Also, the arrows should be moved back by one dot each (as they are in the wrong places in that chart ;D).

Originally posted by aRtFuLThinG

Originally posted by asmkm22

I don't know why people keep acting like SWG was doing so well.  It was bleeding subs from month one, and never really recovered.

No it wasn't...

Before anyone thinks of saying, "Well SWG only had 300k subs." you may want to look in the mirror.

Originally posted by Chieftan
I'd say just copy GW2's model but that game's sinking like a turd.  NVM!

Yeah. They are losing all that monthly subscriber money!

Originally posted by Skymourne

Originally posted by Kabaal
It doesn't matter how it's defended, EA's version of F2P is abysmal when compared to the F2P models in pretty much every other game out there. You say people don't have the right to complain, since when did people lose the right to voice opinions on open forums?

This right here.  SWTOR's F2P model is awful when compared with every other F2P game out there and we can complain as much as we like thank you very much.  I'll lose the right to compain when i die and only then.

 

sir im sure you wont want to relinquish that right when you die, how else will you bitch about how hot it is in hell.

or the lack of ac.

or the lack of ice water.

or the lack of snow at xmas in hell.

Originally posted by tiefighter25

Originally posted by Chieftan
I'd say just copy GW2's model but that game's sinking like a turd.  NVM!

Yeah. They are losing all that monthly subscriber money!

Did you really just come back with that?  Maybe you can explain how Anet can afford to host servers without income.

The whole point of making a game Free to play (F2P) is to allow people to try out a game before putting money forward. To then turn around than then lock all ability to play the game behind either a subscription, or nickel & dime cash unlocks completely defeats the purpose of having a F2P model to begin.

We get it, it's star wars, but it's time to get real. SWTOR wouldn't go F2P if the game was already making enough money already. The fact that it is F2P now, and that they then restricted almost their entire game from F2P users is laughable. It's easily one of, if not the worst implementation of the F2P business model ever done. If it wasn't star wars, and it was say TF2, or Skyrim, would you play it if you had to pay to unlock every aspect of the UI, or the ability to actually hold onto any of the random crap you find, or to actually play the game for more than a few mins - 1 hour at a time? I know I wouldn't.