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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » So people say GW2 is now all about gear grind.

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100 posts found
  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1326

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

11/24/12 2:56:08 AM#61
Originally posted by andre369

I would like to hear some of the reasons why you dislike the new gear.

*snip* 

The only thing really wrong with it, is the effect it's having on the rest of the game. Orr is dead. Been grinding Karma to get myself a nice set of exotic karma gear, and now there's no way to actually get it since all the places where you could get it are contested and deserted. Great huh?

Events that require large groups have become redundant. Rewards from these events irrelevant as you can't complete them anyway. How are you going to persuade enough people to go do a regular "champion" event for now irrelevant gear?

The whole fractals things is basically just killing the rest of the game. "The whole game WAS endgame, up until the introduction of Ascended Gear. The end game has been reduced to spamming for groups in Lions Arch.

That's a real disappoinment, and it goes against their original design philosophy.

  Nailzzz

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/08
Posts: 489

11/24/12 3:53:15 AM#62

     I feel like i have to constantly repeat myself on the matter, and its clear im not the only one.

     I dont mind if a game is a gear grind, Most of the games i have played have been a gear grind and i still play some to this day. That is not the issue. The difference between those other gear grinds and GW2 is that those other gear grinds didnt pull a bait and switch after i bought the game.

     It would be the same thing if i was getting my self a slice of pie and i put a bunch of cool whip on it, only to start to eat it and find out it was actually miracle whip. Miracle whip is fine, but i dont want it on my pie. And much like the scenario i just outlined this whole bait and switch by Anet has left a rather bad taste in many of our mouths.

     Im sure most of you who dont see the big deal didnt really research the game beforehand and just expected another regular mmo and didnt see them lieing to you because you had your own set in stone ideas about what this game would be (similar to every other mmo). Those of us who were looking forward to this game since 2007 where told rather clearly what they were intending to do. And believe it or not, not everything they told us back then made it into the release of the game, and they explained why they made the changes, and we were fine with it. They were up front and honest about why they decided not to go dual classing this time around. Did we raise hell about it? NO. How about lack of henchmen and heroes? No controversy there either.

     We arent nearly the whiners that we are being unfairly painted as and to accuse us of otherwise is just trolling. They delivered the game at release and those of us who had followed the game from the start and knew what it was about were happy with it as it was. The only people who were complaining about a lack of end game where the people who hadnt done thier homework. Those of us with prior GW experience understood that we could expect plenty of "content" (not to be confused with gear treadmill's and gated end game) that would be released in patches over time and paid expansions.

     This was our understanding and it was all based on what the dev's at arenanet had been telling us all along.... until this last month.

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2457

MMO gamer since 1997

11/24/12 5:24:35 AM#63

 

GW2 is about an Optional gear grind...

Once i hit 80 on my ranger and crafted quality stuff for myself I was done.

It was my choice to look at the dungeon vendors and it was my choice to focus on a set of gear that hardly had any statistical  benefit. It looked cool and I wanted it.

Its no different that doing repeatable events in WoW or Rift for a cosmetic item or mount.

You don't need it, but it appeals to you because it makes you look bad ass.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2457

MMO gamer since 1997

11/24/12 5:27:15 AM#64
Originally posted by JoeyMMO
Originally posted by andre369

I would like to hear some of the reasons why you dislike the new gear.

*snip* 

The only thing really wrong with it, is the effect it's having on the rest of the game. Orr is dead. Been grinding Karma to get myself a nice set of exotic karma gear, and now there's no way to actually get it since all the places where you could get it are contested and deserted. Great huh?

Events that require large groups have become redundant. Rewards from these events irrelevant as you can't complete them anyway. How are you going to persuade enough people to go do a regular "champion" event for now irrelevant gear?

The whole fractals things is basically just killing the rest of the game. "The whole game WAS endgame, up until the introduction of Ascended Gear. The end game has been reduced to spamming for groups in Lions Arch.

That's a real disappoinment, and it goes against their original design philosophy.

Mybe, just maybe everyone on your server already got that stuff so now they moved on to new goals? 

It happens all the time in MMOs. If you progress too slowly you get left behind.

This is why so many people play MMOs on day one and rush to max level. they want to stck with the majority of the population and get all the cool stuff with them because the more people that do it, the easier it is.

On my server I see the same thing. Players that took their time. Just hitting 80 a week or so ago and begging for runs through stuff that we all did the first month of release.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1326

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

11/24/12 7:23:00 AM#65
Originally posted by Z3R01

*snip*

Mybe, just maybe everyone on your server already got that stuff so now they moved on to new goals? 

It happens all the time in MMOs. If you progress too slowly you get left behind.

This is why so many people play MMOs on day one and rush to max level. they want to stck with the majority of the population and get all the cool stuff with them because the more people that do it, the easier it is.

On my server I see the same thing. Players that took their time. Just hitting 80 a week or so ago and begging for runs through stuff that we all did the first month of release.

Clearly not everybody got that stuff on all their characters, that's just nonsense.

Even if "everybody" got "that stuff", new players won't be able to get it anymore. Does changing the paradigm from "the entire game is end game" to "just another instanced gear grind" make this change a good thing? Simply because so many other games force you to build your life around them, does this mean that GW2 has to do it too?

Without new players the game is doomed. This whole thing needs some serious reconsideration. You can't just plug in something like that and expect it to not have an effect on the game world. They'll need to make some serious changes to make this whole thing fit into the game world again. At this point it feels like GW2 just did a WoW patch, and I really don't want to play a WoW-like game ever again.

Those begging players won't keep on begging, they'll be forced to eiher stick to making alts or just quit. Do you think this is the way it should be? I don't. The game was more enjoyable, for casual players, before the introduction of Ascended Gear, even if the Fractals dungeon is really good.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/24/12 12:22:47 PM#66

People are obsessed with this new modicum of a gear grind, because that's the only thing to do at lv.80 that's even slightly rewarding or goal oriented.  I'm so disappointed that after all their talk of innovation, this is the best they could come up with for the same old endgame issue. 

 

Of course people are jumping all over it, though.  As lame as it may be, at least it's something.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2457

MMO gamer since 1997

11/24/12 1:11:09 PM#67
Originally posted by JoeyMMO
Originally posted by Z3R01

*snip*

Mybe, just maybe everyone on your server already got that stuff so now they moved on to new goals? 

It happens all the time in MMOs. If you progress too slowly you get left behind.

This is why so many people play MMOs on day one and rush to max level. they want to stck with the majority of the population and get all the cool stuff with them because the more people that do it, the easier it is.

On my server I see the same thing. Players that took their time. Just hitting 80 a week or so ago and begging for runs through stuff that we all did the first month of release.

Clearly not everybody got that stuff on all their characters, that's just nonsense.

Even if "everybody" got "that stuff", new players won't be able to get it anymore. Does changing the paradigm from "the entire game is end game" to "just another instanced gear grind" make this change a good thing? Simply because so many other games force you to build your life around them, does this mean that GW2 has to do it too?

Without new players the game is doomed. This whole thing needs some serious reconsideration. You can't just plug in something like that and expect it to not have an effect on the game world. They'll need to make some serious changes to make this whole thing fit into the game world again. At this point it feels like GW2 just did a WoW patch, and I really don't want to play a WoW-like game ever again.

Those begging players won't keep on begging, they'll be forced to eiher stick to making alts or just quit. Do you think this is the way it should be? I don't. The game was more enjoyable, for casual players, before the introduction of Ascended Gear, even if the Fractals dungeon is really good.

The whole game is endgame but you cant expect everyone to stay in one zone and farm events all day to gear up your alts.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2457

MMO gamer since 1997

11/24/12 1:12:49 PM#68
Originally posted by Vhaln

People are obsessed with this new modicum of a gear grind, because that's the only thing to do at lv.80 that's even slightly rewarding or goal oriented.  I'm so disappointed that after all their talk of innovation, this is the best they could come up with for the same old endgame issue. 

 

Of course people are jumping all over it, though.  As lame as it may be, at least it's something.

This why i always say players don't know what they want.

A-net delivers a unique experience with the entire game as "Endgame" and people leave because there's no item progression...

So A-net added some.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/24/12 2:37:55 PM#69
Originally posted by Z3R01

This why i always say players don't know what they want.

A-net delivers a unique experience with the entire game as "Endgame" and people leave because there's no item progression...

So A-net added some.

 

If they'd succeeded at making the entire game as endgame, more people would be playing it that way, and none of this would have been an issue.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Xhieron

Novice Member

Joined: 10/03/06
Posts: 130

Don't trust these people. They're crooks.

11/24/12 2:50:20 PM#70

I actually have nothing against gear grind, or even a treadmill; hell, if you're building a themepark, it's hard not to do that.

 

My grievance is over the bait-and-switch.  ANet held the game out as being fundamentally against the gear grind treadmill, and yet here it is two months after launch.  Sure, it's optional.  So were Exotics beforehand.  That doesn't change the nature of the statistic disparity among different tiers of equipment, and it doesn't mean that the gear isn't a departure from the stated position that a stat cap should be reasonably accessible to all characters who play the game in any reasonable amount.

 

I appreciate what a gear grind is, and I know that it's traditionally been a fundamental part of this sub-genre.  I embrace that.  But Rift, EQ and its successors, WOW, FFXI, etc., all have something in common: nobody had any belief that things would be different when it came to upgrading gear; we knew there would be a treadmill, and we knew there would be power creep, mudflation, and everything else that comes with regular expansion.  GW2, to my knowledge, is the sole outlier here in that it misrepresented its position on this philosophy.

 

The grind isn't the problem.  The lie is.  This is monocle-gate 2.0 as far as I'm concerned, and my wallet is closed.

Peace and safety.

  cptndunsel

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 117

11/24/12 3:37:58 PM#71

I play several hours a day and have 2 80s and 4 other alts ranging from lvl 2 - 46.

 

What I am seeing is fewer and fewer players in zones 10-70 aside from gatherings to kill the 3 dragons. Likewise I am not seeing near as many LFG <dungeon name> in LA and in fact the original dungeons are becoming ghost towns aside from those who want a specific skin or achievement.

 

The reason is - the token grind was always there, and now with FotM and the new token grind for better gear, players are deciding to spend their time in pursuit of ascended versus the starter dungeon gear. If you can only spend your time doing 1 or the other it makes sense.

 

I don't know if Nexon/Anet could have added so much disharmony on purpose if they tried. 1) A % of the user base feels betrayed by the gear treadmill and some are leaving the game; 2) some original content is now considered a waste of time and not played by a % of the player base; 3) FotM introduces a flavor of elitism - not purposfully, but the fact is groups that progress up the FotM level chain are not likely to group with someone at FotM level 1 or 2 or 5 etc.; 4) gear treadmill so the game has lost a unique differentiator from other games; 5) people citing their concerns on GW2 forums are being infracted, banned from forums, and their posts deleted... the list goes on.

 

The genie is out of the bottle now and once the ascended have their gear they will expect more vertical progression and then what does Nexon/Anet do?

  JoeyMMO

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/09/11
Posts: 1326

To busy playing GW2 to post much around here... *shrug*

11/24/12 4:40:29 PM#72
Originally posted by Z3R01
The whole game is endgame but you cant expect everyone to stay in one zone and farm events all day to gear up your alts.

No it's not. End game is sitting in LA and farming the fractals dungeon. Be realistic. Everything changed when they added Ascended Gear.

  Silentstorm

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/29/06
Posts: 1126

11/24/12 6:41:24 PM#73
In WvWvW I kill people in ascended gear all the time. They just hit a fraction of a bit harder. Health pools in this game just aren't high enough for that to matter anyway. Most of the gear whining guys just dont see it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. And you don't actually haved to do it. I have two pieces now and I barely did anything to get them. And to be honest I don't see the difference. Like wow i got extra magic find now and a few extra healing im soooo OP now lol...
  Honkie

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 152

Common sense ain't that common anymore.

11/24/12 7:06:09 PM#74
Originally posted by Silentstorm
In WvWvW I kill people in ascended gear all the time. They just hit a fraction of a bit harder. Health pools in this game just aren't high enough for that to matter anyway. Most of the gear whining guys just dont see it doesn't really matter at the end of the day. And you don't actually haved to do it. I have two pieces now and I barely did anything to get them. And to be honest I don't see the difference. Like wow i got extra magic find now and a few extra healing im soooo OP now lol...

You have ascended gear, and you kill people with ascended gear, so of course you don't see the difference.  You have the same stat increase they do.

It's about an 8% stat increase, which currently isn't a lot, but as the number of pieces that get that boost increase, the bigger the difference it will be.  Eventually it will be on par with someone in full exotics against someone in full rares, which is a significant factor.  Except that there's a big grind between now and then.

Plus the whole bait and switch thing.  If you're cool supporting a developer without integrity, who has absolutely no problem lying to you about anything, then enjoy.  I won't.

  Arglebargle

Elite Member

Joined: 6/13/07
Posts: 1073

11/24/12 7:13:22 PM#75
Originally posted by Vhaln
Originally posted by Z3R01

This why i always say players don't know what they want.

A-net delivers a unique experience with the entire game as "Endgame" and people leave because there's no item progression...

So A-net added some.

 

If they'd succeeded at making the entire game as endgame, more people would be playing it that way, and none of this would have been an issue.

That says more about the people than the game.

 

The great thing about loud gear grind mini-maxers is that it lets me know who to avoid.  Unless they're funny....

If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

11/24/12 7:22:28 PM#76
Originally posted by EvilGeek

OP wanted the game to be something it was never sold as being, pleased you got your way, I on the other hand am not that pleased by it, would have rather the game stayed as it was sold to me.

 

Then you should not play MMOs.   All MMOs evolve over time.  

 

Further, you should have paid more attention to the game's design and what ANet said prior to the game's release.   Especially the part they said they had to cut a lot of material out for the final release and that it'd be released later.

 

Not only do we have the (very natural and logical) ascended gear, but we've also gotten a new zone, new equipment & recipes, the fractals and at least a few new DEs in the starter zones.   I had cleared all the Divinity's Reach DEs a month ago.   Last week I went back and dang if there weren't a couple of new DEs.    I don't know about the other areas, but there were a couple of new ones in DR.

 

And, of course, they've even paid attention to their mistakes instead of blaming their players (a la SWTOR, etc.):

 

We've seen people saying that they really liked the principle of using events to unveil new content, but we need to tighten up the methods by which they are deployed. We take these comments to heart, as it is our goal to always deliver content of the highest quality.

 

The bottom line is:  

 

 In the short- to mid-term future, ArenaNet plans to revamp and rebalance existing dungeons, add new dungeons to the Fractals of the Mists, fix existing content, add new content and progression for guilds, keep adding features to PvP, add new WvW content and rewards, and continue to add to the dynamic content around the world.

 

In short.  More change.    http://tinyurl.com/czuyh3c

 

 

  TwoThreeFour

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/12
Posts: 2148

11/24/12 7:26:19 PM#77
Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by EvilGeek

OP wanted the game to be something it was never sold as being, pleased you got your way, I on the other hand am not that pleased by it, would have rather the game stayed as it was sold to me.

 

Then you should not play MMOs.   All MMOs evolve over time.  

(...)

 

That has been precisely my point for a long time. Haters and ex-fanboys don't seem to realize that though :/.

  greenreen

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1440

11/24/12 8:14:47 PM#78

This is how they sold the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

It is not in that state.

They sold the game on these claims.

  • to make a game that defies everything
  • we do not want to build the same mmo everyone else is building
  • the most important thing in any game should be the player, we built the game for them
http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto

"We started this company to innovate and bring players new experiences. Guild Wars 2 is the perfect game for Guild Wars players, but it’s not just the same game repeated again."

"Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee."

"It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment."

 

 

That's how they got money, you can't change that and claim that you are offering the same game. I call whitewashing if your only response for chucking the entire reasoning of the game is "things change". They got the sales they did because they talked down on those other systems, making a change to BE who they said was WRONG to begin with is exactly the words they used on us being used back on them.

 

Are these people "preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward" or "it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun", oh, they are waiting and the timer on this site stops at an hour. For all we know they have waited 4 hours. http://www.gw2lfg.com/ Do you see anyone there looking for a "rip roaring event" for their group? Anyone that wants to group up and do something anywhere but a dungeon? Ex-freaking-sactly, it's now a dungeon grinding game just like alllllll the others before it. People are so aware of it, they even put in their own notes that is a "daily". It's something they expect to do and are required to do to get daily rewards. That was added too and changed from salvaging gear to doing dungeons.

Amoracchius LFG FoTM 11     about 1 hour     
Jo Sai ba  LFG HotM LV17     about 1 hour     
Just The Lonely One lf1m fractals lvl 25 (EU)     about 1 hour     
Ruby Fauna     about 1 hour     
Celebrian     about 1 hour     
Revolver Girl  LFG Any Path     about 1 hour     
Koreal Holimion  LF2 More Any Path     about 1 hour     
Jesyl LF1M FOTM 14     about 1 hour     
Althea Dawn  LF2M Tier 19     about 1 hour     
Treehugga LFG lvl 4     about 1 hour     
Byran     lfg daily lvl 10 or 30     about 1 hour     
Heyzz     LFg for frac lvl 19 Europe server 15 agony res     about 1 hour     
Chiisa     LF1M 30/32 daily     about 1 hour     
Carminy LFG 10 daily     about 1 hour     
Supac fotm 16 glf1m (daily)     about 1 hour     
Ostryga  lfg lvl 29 EU     about 1 hour     
Sjlent Tears LFM path 3, prefer who can zone in     about 1 hour     
Sylvia Slingblade     lvl 4     about 1 hour     
Choe Gromsong  LF1M (One Man)     about 1 hour     
Maximillian Greil LFG Fractal 10 full exotic ele with agony resistance and VOIP program /invite Maximillian Greil     about 1 hour   

 

If  the "we do not want to build the same mmo everyone else is building" was  right  when Arenanet said it, it's still right when I say it too "I do NOT want to PLAY the same mmo everyone else is building".  I said it on the forum until they stopped it, I'll say it here and anywhere else it needs to be said. It isn't unreasonable and it isn't anything they didn't agree with until Nov. 15th or so.

 

 

I may change my clothes and I may change what I eat but I never change my gender after 3 months of marriage and just come home one day with different parts after saying nothing to my spouse. That's the analogy you need to grasp  to understand this. This change was the soul of the game, the entire philosophy.

 

 

When you try to say "things change" you either think people are stupid or willing to take abuse and offer the other cheek.

  David_Lopan

Novice Member

Joined: 9/07/10
Posts: 815

"There is no progress. Everything is the same as it was. Form changes. The essence does not." RLS

11/24/12 8:18:31 PM#79
Originally posted by greenreen

This is how they sold the game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

It is not in that state.

They sold the game on these claims.

  • to make a game that defies everything
  • we do not want to build the same mmo everyone else is building
  • the most important thing in any game should be the player, we built the game for them
http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto

"We started this company to innovate and bring players new experiences. Guild Wars 2 is the perfect game for Guild Wars players, but it’s not just the same game repeated again."

"Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee."

"It all gets back to our basic design philosophy. Our games aren’t about preparing to have fun, or about grinding for a future fun reward. Our games are designed to be fun from moment to moment."

That's how they got money, you can't change that and claim that you are offering the same game. I call whitewashing if your only response for chucking the entire reasoning of the game is "things change". They got the sales they did because they talked down on those other systems, making a change to BE who they said was WRONG to begin with is exactly the words they used on us being used back on them. If  the "same mmo everyone else is building" was wrong when you said it, it's still wrong when I say it too.

I may change my clothes and I may change what I eat but I never change my gender after 3 months of marriage and just come home one day with different parts after saying nothing to my spouse. That's the analogy you need to grasp  understand this. This change was the soul of the game, the entire philosophy.

When you try to say "things change" you either think people are stupid or willing to take abuse and offer the other cheek.

  Pretty much agree. I am still enjoying the game but..........

 

GW2 just became Fractal Wars 2 for awhile

  Z3R01

Novice Member

Joined: 9/09/08
Posts: 2457

MMO gamer since 1997

11/24/12 8:34:03 PM#80
Originally posted by Vhaln
Originally posted by Z3R01

This why i always say players don't know what they want.

A-net delivers a unique experience with the entire game as "Endgame" and people leave because there's no item progression...

So A-net added some.

 

If they'd succeeded at making the entire game as endgame, more people would be playing it that way, and none of this would have been an issue.

It has a sustainable endgame... 

Thing is most of you themepark guys don't consider cosmetics worth the trouble.

You forced A-nets hand tbh.

Playing: None

Waiting on: None

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