Listening to the chat most seem content to try the stories and are quite pleased with it and a lot of them from what you hear when asked have bought the extra bars. I am definitely not saying it was the right thing for EA to do but when they finish the stories they may all leave.

In my opinion legacy should not be extended to non subscribers and therefore the 2 character slot limitation can be overcome with multiple accounts.

Originally posted by nate1980

...how would you of done it? Keep in mind that the Cartel Market needs to offer things that nearly everyone is going to want to buy. You can't have people just playing the game for free indefinitely or only charging for things that only a select type of player would pay for. If they did that, they'd never make any money and that's the whole point in making the game F2P, to increase profits over the pure P2P model.

I'm asking this, because people keep complaining about the restrictions. What did people expect, a free ride until they got tired of the game? To not spend any money in the near future, possibly for over a month? To only be restricted in ways that people don't mind? If players don't mind the restrictions, then they'd be less likely to pony over the dough.

IMHO, I think people who are complaining don't deserve to be. Anytime you get something for free, you should never complain, then again, I grew up poor, so maybe I was brought up differently. 

If I was Bioware, I would have rationed off the whole draw of the game and made F2P players pay to access it in bits and pieces. The main draw is the single player class stories. If you have to pay money to unlock each Chapter per character, then you'd accomplish two things. Get rid of the F2P players that don't ever intend to pay a dime, because they're only playing to finish off all the class stories. The second is to profit off your best feature. Sort of like unlocking content packs in DDO.

To be fair, there are some posters who have offered solutions, though those tend to be few and far between. The majority seem to be folks that are upset because they didn't get a free ride to 50. I agree with you that Bioware should have put a limit on  the class stories. because that is the best part of the game.  I wouldn't have even bothered charging for stuff like action bars. 

Nate1980,

This game is really a single player game with MMO elements. They need to do a Starcraft arrangment. Make the single player missions downloadable and chargeable. I left the game because the game was too rich graphically. Doing grouping was painful because this game requires so much bandwidth so the latency was bad. I think a regular stream is like 100kpbs. For example, City of Heroes is 10kbps. The game client was slow and I felt like I was watching TV sometimes because of the cutcscenes. The sad part about this game is that the game is good for 1 year old but the community is too hardcore and so they needle each other online which distracts from the game.

The game will not survive in its current implementation.

I disagree strongly with giving everyone access to 50. Every MMO that does has done the faceplant.

You can get a feel for the game by playing to level 25. Finally, the worse assumption I feel this game has made was assuming

everyone wants to play with everyone else. Give people options. Some come online for "controlled" events. Some do come

online to play with others. Example, I love Starcraft but I don't play over the battle.net.  I don't want to become addicted to the

useless achievement system. I only play storyline SC2. 

I thought this was obvious,  but after reading some of the complaints here I guess it's not.

Please, do a little research on "Gratis versus libre" and figure out where SWtOR (or any "F2P" MMO) falls.

First off things I would not have done

(1) the two character limit, this screws over legacy

(2) being charged for the UI opening more hotbars. never before in any other mmo has this been done. 

(3) put fluf in the store that folks want, like apearance gear and what not. 

You want folks to play your free to play game andlike it.  If they like it they sub up, or they spend cash in the store to unlock or get fluf.  The current model chases folks off, nobody I know felt welcome.  All the folks in my guild went back to try it and quit within hours.   All of them saying the same thing, nothing has changed it still sucks.  

Originally posted by erictlewis

First off things I would not have done

(1) the two character limit, this screws over legacy

(2) being charged for the UI opening more hotbars. never before in any other mmo has this been done. 

(3) put fluf in the store that folks want, like apearance gear and what not. 

You want folks to play your free to play game andlike it.  If they like it they sub up, or they spend cash in the store to unlock or get fluf.  The current model chases folks off, nobody I know felt welcome.  All the folks in my guild went back to try it and quit within hours.   All of them saying the same thing, nothing has changed it still sucks.  

 

1.  The character limit makes sense.  I think it's understandable that the Legacy feature is not required to complete the game or even factors into anything during your first one or maybe two playthroughs.  If you like the game enough to want to keep playing more characters and see more end-game stuff, then it's time to subscribe.

2.  I agree that the UI hotbar limitation feels kind of punative, but I think it's being overblown in how people are complaining about it.  While every class has a lot of skills, not all of those skills should be used by your chosen AC and Spec.  I've played quite a few characters up to and post end-game, and 3 hotbars is the most I've ever actually needed, and even then only at the end-game.  1 of the hotbars was just a utility bar for things like buffs and travel options.

3.  I'm sure that's easily expanded upon, but they do seem to have a pretty good selection of fluff items, like moddable armor sets.

As for all your friends trying it and leaving because it still sucks, I'd say that's a problem with their expectations rather than Bioware right now.  Free to Play was never advertised as changing the core gameplay experience.  It was purely advertised as a way to let people play without the upfront cost and, hopefully, decide they like it enough to subscribe.  If someone didn't like it before, their opinions probably aren't going to change about it now as a result.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by rojo6934

not sure which way would shut down Swtor faster, this way or keeping the subscription only.

a good example here. PWE has many full f2p mmos, and still they make more money on a single game than swtor ever did since launch. And dont say p2w because taht only affects PvPers and the majority are PvEers who also buy fluff only. I never payed more than perhaps $80 bucks in a couple years of fun and challenging gameplay as a PvEer.

EAWARE needs to be smarter with their Freemium model. Right now they almost look like if they wanted retribution with that model... [resub, or have nightmares with our cash shop]

the point is, with a decent model and respect for the playerbase that is willing to support them via sub or cash shop, the game will florish. some freemiums right now have some annoying restrictions but not as insulting as Swtors one for many players

its my opinion only, and a comment based on my experience with some freemiums and f2p

For me, i only have 4 problems with their cash shop:

1) make the 2 character creation limit server specific, not account wide.

2) take away every every form of instanced pvp from my game, but let me do dungeons and raids freely.

3) raise the ridiculous credit cap, which is too low and cant even legacy stuff

4) gimmie my hotbars.

im ok with the rest of the unlocks and i would pay to unlock them (IF those 4 i mentioned ever get addressed or adjusted to reflect less greed and more care towars both their game and players)....otherwise ill just move to the next game.

The problem with that theory is that you assume that the reason TOR did so badly was the payment model. Rift used the same and it have done pretty fine

The game have other problems and changing how people choose to pay for it wont help unless they fix the problem that made people play it a few weeks and then quit.

Sure, this payment model isnt good, particularly limiting the multiplayer access but it seems like a hail Mary pass from EA instead of actually spending all the money they need to make the game more fun long term.

Personally I think limiting people to 2 chars free is fine, if you want more charging for that is not really a big problem. But the game already have too little multiplayer interaction, they need to make the game more about groups and playing together with other people or most players will still tire fast.

Putting a band aid on a gunwound just aint enough, if the game was fine from the beginning it would have done fine as P2P as well.

I've grouped more from 1-10 than I did RIFT after the expansion and then a lot more from 11-20 than RIFT after the expansion. It's because each planet has Heroic +2 and +4 quests, and people are actually doing them (unlike at release when it was like pulling teeth to get a group). Then there's the Flashpoints. Compared to other themepark games, this is a grouping game. 

- Remove Item Restrictions

-Remove restrictions on group content (primarily that you gain from leveling) mostly for pvp and some dungeons

-Remove hotbar restrictions

-Remove space Mission limit

+Lock raids and dungeons, particularlyuseful with 'content packs' containing some of those missions and raids, though at an affordable rate. 

+Make crystals for weapon customization unavailable, letting those already present stay while making new ones buyable in cash shop for a cheap price.

+Limit 1 PvP battleground and possible space missions, maybe combined with content packs. Of course keeping affordable.

+Cosmetic goods that don't destact from the game but are appealing to player

+More vanity pets.

+More character customization options (its poor as is so this can easily be added.

+Mounts (for appearances)

+Bonus for subscribers for pvp possibly (maybe 20% increase or 20% decrease for F2p, nothing huge just an extra perk thats not massive like limiting games per week)

Over-all though it would rely on content being pushed out enough to give players something to purchase. I think SWTOR could pull this off due to its story focused gameplay much like DnD if done right.

the restrictions will be good if cartel coins can be purchased via ingame content, with triple+ time but possible

gain them only with real money is crap (so far i didnt see any CC via in-game mechanics)

Originally posted by asmkm22

Originally posted by erictlewis

First off things I would not have done

(1) the two character limit, this screws over legacy

(2) being charged for the UI opening more hotbars. never before in any other mmo has this been done. 

(3) put fluf in the store that folks want, like apearance gear and what not. 

You want folks to play your free to play game andlike it.  If they like it they sub up, or they spend cash in the store to unlock or get fluf.  The current model chases folks off, nobody I know felt welcome.  All the folks in my guild went back to try it and quit within hours.   All of them saying the same thing, nothing has changed it still sucks.  

 

1.  The character limit makes sense.  I think it's understandable that the Legacy feature is not required to complete the game or even factors into anything during your first one or maybe two playthroughs.  If you like the game enough to want to keep playing more characters and see more end-game stuff, then it's time to subscribe.

2.  I agree that the UI hotbar limitation feels kind of punative, but I think it's being overblown in how people are complaining about it.  While every class has a lot of skills, not all of those skills should be used by your chosen AC and Spec.  I've played quite a few characters up to and post end-game, and 3 hotbars is the most I've ever actually needed, and even then only at the end-game.  1 of the hotbars was just a utility bar for things like buffs and travel options.

3.  I'm sure that's easily expanded upon, but they do seem to have a pretty good selection of fluff items, like moddable armor sets.

 

As for all your friends trying it and leaving because it still sucks, I'd say that's a problem with their expectations rather than Bioware right now.  Free to Play was never advertised as changing the core gameplay experience.  It was purely advertised as a way to let people play without the upfront cost and, hopefully, decide they like it enough to subscribe.  If someone didn't like it before, their opinions probably aren't going to change about it now as a result.

I would like to play through more characters, and would subscribe if most of the content was not the same. You get the main class story plus the side quests that all classes do. If each class had their own side quests then it would be a different matter, and worth a sub. The game is likeable to begin with, but then when you want to create more chars then it is time to unsub as going through the same quests gets boring and you find yourself logging in one or two days per month to try and forget the quests, making $15 for that too much, and need F2P, but then you don't have the slots to do so.

They really should not have concentrated on mergers / server consolidations, and certainly not F2P until more content was done. This is what SOE did with SWG, and it worked well, it kept a steady flow of people coming back to the game.

If F2P was more inviting and less restrictive. then people would have stayed more, even with no new content.

I will be able to play SWTOR again, when they let you unlock more char slots. I can not create any more in F2P, and I am not subbing, it is not worth it.

Originally posted by superniceguy

 

I would like to play through more characters, and would subscribe if most of the content was not the same. You get the main class story plus the side quests that all classes do. If each class had their own side quests then it would be a different matter, and worth a sub. The game is likeable to begin with, but then when you want to create more chars then it is time to unsub as going through the same quests gets boring and you find yourself logging in one or two days per month to try and forget the quests, making $15 for that too much, and need F2P, but then you don't have the slots to do so.

They really should not have concentrated on mergers / server consolidations, and certainly not F2P until more content was done. This is what SOE did with SWG, and it worked well, it kept a steady flow of people coming back to the game.

If F2P was more inviting and less restrictive. then people would have stayed more, even with no new content.

I will be able to play SWTOR again, when they let you unlock more char slots. I can not create any more in F2P, and I am not subbing, it is not worth it.

 

I don't know why people keep acting like SWG was doing so well.  It was bleeding subs from month one, and never really recovered.

Anyway, like all games, no one is forcing you to play SWtOR.  I don't understand why you being able to unlock more character slots makes any difference when you obviously don't like the game in the first place.  It's like you have to contradicting criticisms here where the existence of the first (not worth playing due to game design) makes the existence of the second (too many F2P restrictions) moot.

So which is it?  Do you like the game and want to be able to play it at no cost, but can't because of the restrictions are too harsh for players that don't sub?  Or do you not like the game and think it's not worth playing because things like quests are the mostly the same across various classes?

Originally posted by Shodanas
A college at work stated that F2P players can unlock stuff not accessible to them by farming cartel points. Can anyone confirm this or was he talking BS?

I don't believe you can farm Cartel Points.  What you can do is buy stuff from the AH with ingame credits, which is flooded with cheap Item Shop stuff that people have been pulling from the gambling bags.  There are a few things you can't get through credits alone, though, mainly due to the credit cap on free players.  For example, unlocking a new species is 1.5 mil credits, which a free player can't save up for.

Of course, if you like the game enough to want to start unlocking races and stuff, then a sub is probably the best way to go.

Originally posted by nate1980

...how would you of done it?

* People who bought the game have UI and gear restrictions unlocked.

* Non-subscribed players can enter into flashpoints and PvP matches but they do not gain any points.  Instead all the xp and pvp currency accumulated  is saved and able to be purchased from the store.

* In addition 25% of the experience earned in PvE is also taken away and placed in the store to be purchased by player.  They can not buy xp they did not earn.

Originally posted by sapphen

Originally posted by nate1980

...how would you of done it?

 

* People who bought the game have UI and gear restrictions unlocked.

* Non-subscribed players can enter into flashpoints and PvP matches but they do not gain any points.  Instead all the xp and pvp currency accumulated  is saved and able to be purchased from the store.

* In addition 25% of the experience earned in PvE is also taken away and placed in the store to be purchased by player.  They can not buy xp they did not earn.

sounds kind of convuluted, although I like the intent.  Would be much simpler to just offer xp boost consumables for sale, rather than have to keep track of earned xp converted to purchaseable xp, for each character.

Originally posted by Corehaven

No worries. 

 Swtor isn't that good of a game anyways.  

That's why I have no opinion on the matter. The game was terrible in beta. I didn't pay a dime then, and enjoyed nothing. 

Hearing that EA's locked UI options makes me happy.

Because honestly they should stay out of the market for MMOs. They do it wrong.

Originally posted by mnwild1998
The problem is not the game. The problem is the ones who feel entitled to get everything for free. The game is fine, the f2p is what they said it would be. A game where you can play 2 different char all the way to 50. Stop this childish crap stop whining its "its not free enough" its a pathetic argument.

That whole attitude has been getting worse and worse over the last year.  I'm not sure if it's because people are just getting cheap, or if the majority of MMO players are teens who don't have any real form of income, yet still want to play games.  The fact that anyone complains about paying $15 a month for quite a bit of entertainment when they are probably spending $10 a day on lunches, is just weird.  Complaining about something not being free enough is just silly.