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Jita (General)  » Revival of the space sim genre - tougher times for EvE incoming?

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63 posts found
  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

 
OP  11/23/12 11:47:47 AM#1

Anyone else noticed that the multiplayer space sim genre is getting a LOT more attention lately?

A bunch of interesting new titles in development, plus some rumored ones, most of them are massive multiplayer games.

I know EvE combat is different to the action combat of upcoming titles, but which effect will the new competition have on EvE?

Will CCP try to bring in long promised big new features like Walking in Stations? New gameplay aspects maybe? New incentives to play?

 

the upcoming competition (only partially confirmed)

Star Citizen

Elite Dangerous

Star of Barathrum

TOR SSSP Update/Expansion

Infinity

Starlight Inception

...

  Mike-McQueen

Novice Member

Joined: 10/30/05
Posts: 248

11/23/12 11:53:37 AM#2
The people that do play eve are pretty entrenched in it and I doubt any of those titles will compare, at least for a long while.

I'm a unique and beautiful snowflake.

  Maelwydd

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/26/09
Posts: 949

11/23/12 11:55:57 AM#3

I don't play EVE and have only dabbled a few times, it just isn't what I call fun.

But for the same reason I think these other releases will have little effect on EVE. EVE has a very dedicated following with people owning multiple subscriptions and their dedicationg is likely to sustain them till the game is ended for them. Just like people that play WOW with years of time invested have a mental block of trying to leave the game, the same will apply to EVE players, probably more so due to the high level of dedication needed to play the game.

I personally hope EVE continues for a long time. While I personally don't like EVE I respect what it is and what it has done in light of recent post WOW years.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/23/12 11:58:02 AM#4
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
The people that do play eve are pretty entrenched in it and I doubt any of those titles will compare, at least for a long while.

ooh argh never let your developers get away with that complacency.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  free2play

Elite Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1735

11/23/12 11:58:47 AM#5

If they are small universe games like STO they won't touch EVE. If they are small Universe games with FFA PvP they won't be around long enough to matter.

If they focus exclusively on the pew pew they will dry up.

While the Pee Vee Pee crowd of EVE fancy themselves the only thing that matters, EVE is more. Thousands of people log in to Jita every day and never leave Jita. Thousands log in docked up in a Mackinaw and never undock in anything else.

EVE is huge. It is multi profession. Slapping together a space game isn't going to cut EVE down. Much like Blizzard and WoW the only thing that can kill EVE is CCP and EVE. Anyone who sees EVE and thinks they want a piece, don't look at the 400K playing, look at the 2 million who quit.

  Kiljaedenas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/29/11
Posts: 411

11/23/12 11:59:48 AM#6
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Anyone else noticed that the multiplayer space sim genre is getting a LOT more attention lately?

A bunch of interesting new titles in development, plus some rumored ones, most of them are massive multiplayer games.

I know EvE combat is different to the action combat of upcoming titles, but which effect will the new competition have on EvE?

Well, they can certainly TRY to have an effect...but they're going to have to be pretty bloody impressive to do so. And I hope the developers of those games are ready for when the Eve vets decide to...test...their new toys. We may see more examples of STO's Bridge of Death bonanzas curtesy of Goonswarm (lol, those poor little STO bastards...).

  User Deleted
11/23/12 12:03:54 PM#7
Originally posted by Yakamomoto

Anyone else noticed that the multiplayer space sim genre is getting a LOT more attention lately?

A bunch of interesting new titles in development, plus some rumored ones, most of them are massive multiplayer games.

I know EvE combat is different to the action combat of upcoming titles, but which effect will the new competition have on EvE?

Will CCP try to bring in long promised big new features like Walking in Stations? New gameplay aspects maybe? New incentives to play?

 

the upcoming competition (only partially confirmed)

Star Citizen

Elite Dangerous

Star of Barathrum

TOR SSSP Update/Expansion

Infinity

Starlight Inception

...

 

I don't think so, and here's why...

 

Chris Roberts is a GOD. However, what he's envisioning for Star Citizen is VERY ambitious. If ANYONE can pull it off, it's Chris Roberts. That being said, we've seen a LOT of people/studios we thought could do no wrong, completely under-deliver or mis-read what the gaming community is expecting or wanting out of a game.

We're two years away from Elite Dangerous being ready. Given that Eve itself was inspired by the original Elite, it's like David Braben is trying to out-Eve Eve. Trying to outdo someone else that has already established themselves has not historically been successful business model in MMORPG's.

Star of Barathrum appears to be vaporware, albeit being from Valve, I admit my curiousity is peaked. See what I said about Chris Roberts though...

TOR SSSP Update/Expansion: I haven't laughed so hard. You must have thrown this in there as a deliberate troll or as a piece of obvious irony.

Infinity has been on the horizon for, like, EVER. I don't see these guys bringing anything to market any time soon. Look at their project status page and the last update is a june 2012 interview. Before that there's a "2011 Retrospective".... I don't think they're making any real headway to having a release for several more years, if at all.

 

So no, I don't think is in any danger of having competition any time soon.

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11358

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

11/23/12 12:04:19 PM#8
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Mike-McQueen
The people that do play eve are pretty entrenched in it and I doubt any of those titles will compare, at least for a long while.

ooh argh never let your developers get away with that complacency.

I can tell you from experience, the EVE community definitely will make it very clear when they feel the devs need to get back on track.

  MyopicMoose

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/03
Posts: 13

11/23/12 12:12:52 PM#9
Originally posted by Maelwydd

I don't play EVE and have only dabbled a few times, it just isn't what I call fun.

But for the same reason I think these other releases will have little effect on EVE. EVE has a very dedicated following with people owning multiple subscriptions and their dedicationg is likely to sustain them till the game is ended for them. Just like people that play WOW with years of time invested have a mental block of trying to leave the game, the same will apply to EVE players, probably more so due to the high level of dedication needed to play the game.

I personally hope EVE continues for a long time. While I personally don't like EVE I respect what it is and what it has done in light of recent post WOW years.

I agree with what Maelwydd said regarding the loyalty of the current Eve following - the folks there have a lot of time invested and are unlikely to leave Eve for a new title.  That being said, i do however believe that some of the current subscribers may consider doing Eve "and" another new title simultaneously.

When i was dabbling in Eve, i typically noticed anywhere from 25,000 to 45,000 people listed as on line in the game.  I honestly don't know how this relates to actual number of dedicated subscribers, but i find the number interesting in light of the number of people who, for example, have already pledged to the Star Citizen development - a little over 92,000 at last count.  This pledge number doesnt reflect the number of people who have not been aware of the crowdfunding for the title but would be interested in a space sim type game, nor the people that may have been aware of the crowdfunding but have chosen to adopt an approach of waiting for the game to be released and then buy the gold version.  Considering these other currently "non-committed" people, it seems reasonable to expect that the number of people potentially interested in the PC based space sim genre easily numbers in the multiple hundreds of thousands, which is interesting... there would certainly appear to be a large number of people who in general terms "should" be interested in Eve, but for whatever reason have chosen to not actively participate in Eve currently. 

With the future release of multiple space sim genre titles and what appears to be an uncommitted complement of fans of the genre waiting for an alternative to Eve, i would think that the Eve developers would recognize their game does not for whatever reason appeal to these uncommitted fans and if they do not adapt to try to address this, then their challenge in attracting new business will become much greater when the new alternatives become available.

Tougher times coming for Eve?  I think so.   insurmountable challenges for Eve given the current fan base dedication?  I wouldnt think so.  Eve's future success or lack thereof i dont think lies so much in what Eve's competition does or doesnt do (though it will be an influence of course), but rather lies in how Eve responds. 

The dinosaurs died out, not because they weren't strong, but rather because they couldn't adapt.  It will be interesting to see how the Eve-asaurus Rex fares....

  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

 
OP  11/23/12 12:34:48 PM#10

I didn't want to imply that EvE might have to worry about their playerbase, (I don't think they have to)  it's rather about the question if CCP will think about new ways to stay ahead of the curve, do something new and innovative - because they *might* think they need to worry about their playerbase.

  free2play

Elite Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1735

11/23/12 12:36:33 PM#11
Speaking as a 5 subscription player of EVE I can tell you there is a burn out factor to consider but if other titles try and demonize EVE they will see it blow up in their face. You might see me rage post and bitter vet a lot on EVE O forums but I wear my EVE badge with pride. Due the burn out, I will give any new Space game a try. It can't be an EVE hater though.
  Demogorgon

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/16/12
Posts: 137

11/23/12 1:10:25 PM#12

If a new batch of space MMO's is finaly made, EVE is in for tougher times indeed.

Its pretty simple... EVE rely on fresh meat to live. The retention rate in that game is abysmal.

Here's how EVE works in a flash:

- New player gets in, find the game very deep and interesting ( that it is, without a doubt ).

- Said new player finds that he can't really take part in and enjoy the depth of what he see going on around him without loads of isk so he buys a PLEX.

- Vets buy those PLEX to play for free on their numerous accounts. (Yes, the disparity in money making potiential is that great between high and nul sec.)

- Since most new players are noobs, they loose quite fast the isk bought and they either quite ( most do ) or buy more PLEX for the vets to buy from them.

- rinse / repeat

I'm wont even talk about the horrendous real time skill system here... Thats one of the biggest barrier of entry this game has imo.

This fresh meat supply to feed the carnivorous whales will dry up if other, newer, options are available. When that happen, it'll trigger a chain reaction and everything will be disrupted and crumble.

But eh, only time will tell if I'm right or not.

 

  Rabiator

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/22/05
Posts: 358

11/23/12 1:12:29 PM#13
Originally posted by free2play

If they are small universe games like STO they won't touch EVE. If they are small Universe games with FFA PvP they won't be around long enough to matter.

If they focus exclusively on the pew pew they will dry up.

While the Pee Vee Pee crowd of EVE fancy themselves the only thing that matters, EVE is more. Thousands of people log in to Jita every day and never leave Jita. Thousands log in docked up in a Mackinaw and never undock in anything else.

EVE is huge. It is multi profession. Slapping together a space game isn't going to cut EVE down. Much like Blizzard and WoW the only thing that can kill EVE is CCP and EVE. Anyone who sees EVE and thinks they want a piece, don't look at the 400K playing, look at the 2 million who quit.

There is some truth to this. EVE has a huge game world with a large and sophisticated player economy. Emulating that will be hard.

But EVE has some weaknesses too:

-PVE gets boring with high level characters. Especially since many level 4 missions got nerfed years ago and complexes and wormholes need tedious scanning now.

-EVE is actually short on simulation. Relative velocities matter for the likelihood of hitting an enemy, but beyond that it is not much different from a "classic" MMO where players launch their skill combos at opponents. There is not much need for (or sense in) dodging missiles or dogfighting. While playing EVE, I've often missed the dogfighting playing style of Freelancer and similar games.

 

So far, I think the competition was weak rather than EVE being unbeatably strong. Black Prophecy was very short on content and variety. I've tried Vendetta Online, but it was a very small universe and with the server in the USA, lag was too much for me (in Europe) to be competitive. Jump Gate Evolution did not even make it to beta. Infinity is likely to be several years away.

 

 

  Gdemami

Elite Member

Joined: 9/23/08
Posts: 6382

11/23/12 1:14:23 PM#14


Originally posted by Loktofeit

I can tell you from experience, the EVE community definitely will make it very clear when they feel the devs need to get back on track.


There is a vocal minority just about anything...

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1308

11/23/12 1:18:30 PM#15

EvE is EvE.

I honestly don't see any of these games even approaching it, or what it could be. Mostly because i feel EvE is more of a "moving target" than any other MMO, the devs are not afraid at all of even changing/adding fundamental aspects of the game if the playerbase is in favour. Also EvE is the only MMO its age thats constantly renovating itself. Just compare early screenshots to current day screenshots ... The EvE we have today, could easily pass for EvE 2 or 3, a wholly new game. I don't think that with the upcoming expansion there is a single mechanic, ship, or weapon left untouched, be it graphically or mechanically.

Most other games seem to ... lack dedication. Why isn't Blizzard updating the graphics and interface of WoW? EA and DAoC? SoE and ... ok lets skip this one. You get my drift, CCP are sometimes idiots but they are idiots who care about their game and will - courtesy of a little bit of nudging from the playerbase - generally find their way. Those other games ... yeah they are ok, will play them. But i more likely than not won't be talking/caring about them in 10 years like i did with EvE. Because their devs will have dropped any support for them by then, and even if they didn't won't support them as CCP does EvE.

Thats one of the predictions i would love to be wrong about btw, but predicting doom and gloom for MMOs these has imho a builtin 99% accuracy rate these days.

  zimboy69

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/09/08
Posts: 334

11/23/12 1:34:01 PM#16

how i look at  it  eve has a wake up call

roughly  in 1-2 years there might be 3-4  new mmo space sims thingies floating around

 

now we all have no idea what they will be like or even if any will be a true mmo or how good/bad they will be

 

but eve should  be seriously working on some joystick control in the game  to promote some joystick dogfighting  if they dont and any of these new games pull off the  game they are talking about  then eve  could be in trouble  

 

 

 

  Rocketeer

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/07/04
Posts: 1308

11/23/12 2:21:20 PM#17
Originally posted by zimboy69

how i look at  it  eve has a wake up call

roughly  in 1-2 years there might be 3-4  new mmo space sims thingies floating around

 

now we all have no idea what they will be like or even if any will be a true mmo or how good/bad they will be

 

but eve should  be seriously working on some joystick control in the game  to promote some joystick dogfighting  if they dont and any of these new games pull off the  game they are talking about  then eve  could be in trouble  

 

 

 

How about not? Whats up with this joystick crap? Does anyone even still have a joystick these days(and not just because your to lazy to throw it away)?

Changing your input devices 10 years into your developement sounds like an epicly bad idea that not even SoE in the grip of another NGE could come up with.

How about alianating our current user base, who knows we might attract new players. /sarcasm

 

Screw dogfighting. I want to play EvE, not some kind of Wing Commander wannabe. I mean seriously, why do people not come up with this shit in games like WoW? "Hey lets make everyone have to wave a broom around infront of a xbox kinect to swing a sword!!". Yeah, real popular.

  dreamsofwar

Novice Member

Joined: 4/04/09
Posts: 471

11/23/12 2:23:58 PM#18
Eve is the WoW of the space genre in terms of it being the largest and most polished and most complete game in its field. New space sims would have to offer something very special to give Eve a tough time.
  ThumbtackJ

Novice Member

Joined: 8/11/11
Posts: 319

11/23/12 2:28:49 PM#19
Originally posted by Rocketeer
Originally posted by zimboy69

how i look at  it  eve has a wake up call

roughly  in 1-2 years there might be 3-4  new mmo space sims thingies floating around

 

now we all have no idea what they will be like or even if any will be a true mmo or how good/bad they will be

 

but eve should  be seriously working on some joystick control in the game  to promote some joystick dogfighting  if they dont and any of these new games pull off the  game they are talking about  then eve  could be in trouble  

 

 

 

Whats up with this joystick crap? Does anyone even still have a joystick these days(and not just because your to lazy to throw it away)?

Plenty of people still use a joystick. I myself have a Saitek X52 Pro that I use for games like FSX, Evochron Mercenary, X3 TC/AP, Galaxy on Fire 2, etc. For many space/flight sims it's the preferred controller method. Though I can see how in EVE it wouldn't be, what with the static combat making it unnecessary to use a joystick, as well as having to navigate through the plethora of menus. A mouse would obviously be the better choice.

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  dave6660

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/08
Posts: 2266

"Next time I see you, remind me not to talk to you."

11/24/12 12:52:43 AM#20
Originally posted by ThumbtackJ

Plenty of people still use a joystick. I myself have a Saitek X52 Pro that I use for games like FSX, Evochron Mercenary, X3 TC/AP, Galaxy on Fire 2, etc. For many space/flight sims it's the preferred controller method. Though I can see how in EVE it wouldn't be, what with the static combat making it unnecessary to use a joystick, as well as having to navigate through the plethora of menus. A mouse would obviously be the better choice.

What do you think about Evochron Mercenary?  I never heard of it until now.  What I read on their web site sounds interesting.
  I have the same flight stick and haven't used it in a while.  I've been looking for a good flight / space game.

"Why so serious?"
-- The Joker

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