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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why don't you just make SWG (pre cu ) 2 already??

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109 posts found
  firefly2003

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/16/08
Posts: 2557

I miss you Star Wars Galaxies...:(

11/22/12 9:07:59 PM#61
Originally posted by Icewhite

 Why don't you?

Because it never topped 300k subs, most likely.  Remember to think like a corporate bean-counter.

I think a section of this community on this website tries to think like bean counters which in turn, makes me wonder if they even like video games at all, this type of attitude making constant numbers arguements is fairly weak , it is this reasoning gaming in the whole industry is going down the tubes due to copying successes of other games or genres, which has lead to a stagnation to the whole industry starving for fresh new ideas and innovation , reason why Kickstarter has become a major outlet for new games with new ideas are becoming popular cause its the developers get to make games they and gamers want to play , NOT the bean-counters and publishers and wannabes that play games cause certain titles are cool are just cause they have "millions playing" even though the games themselves are mediocore or overrated by bought and paid reviewers and websites to give their rubbish high scores, even though its the same game that has been rehashed several times (Call of Duty) etc.

  niceguy3978

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1963

11/22/12 9:12:19 PM#62
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

It's obvious that a lot of people would want it to happen.

SWG had so many elements that players appreciated and loved.

It's 7 years ( SWG pre cu era ) since it was shut downed and still people talk about how they miss it.

With SWTOR's failure and the upcoming resurrection of SW, it's time to act.

Well, we don't know how long until TOR agreement runs out and even if some company started on it, it would take 4-5 years to produce (based on development cycles over the last 8 years or so).  And the original couldn't even reach the popularity level of their other product at the time EQ.

  daeandor

Novice Member

Joined: 7/02/04
Posts: 3004

11/22/12 10:47:55 PM#63

Just go check out one of the EMUs and get over your itch for the game.  There are some out there that are doing a really good job of replicating the old game.  Heck I play them for fun.  I loved SWG, but I wouldn't want an SWG II.  Just like someone else mentioned, it would be like Planetside 2 vs. PS1.  I've played both and can say that the old version was better and I loved it, but the new version doesn't measure up.

 

Bottom line is you really only have a few hundred people who would play SWG(pre-CU) Part Duex.  There's just no way to measure up to the old expectations and the new hype.

 

Heck, I'm going to go start up the old EMU and kill a couple durni's just for fun...

Still don't want a new version....

  Zorgo

Elite Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2156

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

11/22/12 10:55:13 PM#64

Here's a scenario which could plausibly happen, which may in fact bring a SWG2-esque game to a reality.

EQNext actually turns out to be a sandboxy game and it is awesome.  If it does for the genre what EQ1 did.......

then LucasArts/Disney sees that success, and does a double take at TOR, with a dismissive eyeroll.....

Voila - we are 5 years away from SWG2.

 

Granted. There are a lot of IF's for that to happen.

But, imho, it seems more likely with a AAA sandbox otw than it did up to this point.

  Tamanous

Elite Member

Joined: 3/22/09
Posts: 1606

11/22/12 11:01:54 PM#65
Disney is all over Star Wars now. I wouldn't expect a new mmo for it until some movies are out and the new story line is firmly in place. Even then I wouldn't expect Disney to give up even an ounce of creative rights and would make an mmo in house. I still see other types of games coming out long before an mmo and consoles to be the main target over pc.

You stay sassy!

  Burntvet

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/16/07
Posts: 2621

11/22/12 11:28:43 PM#66
Originally posted by Onomas
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Phlacc

Wow, ok. For everybody that's saying "SWG was a great game, but too many bugs", remember, the OP is talking about a REMAKE! So, think of SWG with no bugs and better graphics, don't think of it as exactly as it was.

 

And for everybody that says SWG was a failure, get a clue, SWTOR was a failure, SWG did not fail.

TOR sold 2M, and kept >1M sub for a while. How many boxes did SWG sell?

Thats like comparing apples to oranges.

The time between SWG and TOR are way diffeent considering only 30% of people had internet back then compared to 95% today. Also the hype and 200-400 million spent to make TOR was a waste, but SWG did far more for far less. Its like comparing a model T to a 2013 camaro and saying the model T was a failure because it couldnt get past 20 mph. Even though the model T in its prime was a great car.

To offer a couple bits of clarification: SOE announced that SWG had sold over 1 mil units, a short time after the JTL expansion was released, that being original box plus expansion, so it sold at least that many, and certainly a few more than just that.

Raph Koster stated several times that SWG was "very cheap" to make. Additionally, the number "around $30 mil" was mentioned, not sure if it was by him.

So, that makes it about 1/8-1/10 the price of TOR.

Ironically, when the NGE hit, SWG had 180k-200k paying accts, generating around $3 mil per month (and the numbers had been higher for the life of SWG prior to that). So, about 10% or so of the production cost per month on a continuing basis (which is very good for the MMO industry)

If you scaled TOR up to generating that same return, it would be 2 mil subs a month, which TOR never really had, and certainly did not maintain even if they ever had that many "paying subs" which I do not think happened.

 

So, on a longer term financial basis, SWG did much, much better for the amount spent on making it.

 

  kb056

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/23/06
Posts: 438

11/22/12 11:38:24 PM#67
While I want what once existed, I know I will never play it again. It's the reality we have with the stupidity of current Developers.
  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1041

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

11/22/12 11:43:27 PM#68
I would like to see this happen.  But releasing SWG 2 doesn't mean it has to be an *exact* duplicate of SWG.  Obviously they would need to update what was broken and re-imagine what the sandbox elements would look like/interact given today's technology and features.

  Erythrocyte

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/09
Posts: 103

11/23/12 12:10:25 AM#69
It would be nice to see SWTOR just add a number of open-world and sandbox elements that SWG had.  It's Star Wars (from a different part of it's timeline) and its polished, adding more and more non-themepark elements would improve it's playerbase I would think.  If you look at WoW, you have the gear-grind, but you also have a large number of player's leveling-up trivial things like cooking and fishing.  SWTOR could learn from SWG in areas such as these while maintaining it's generally polished game play.  I realize this probably isn't in the cards for Bioware, I just can't help thinking a great single player game is there with SWTOR, now it just needs alot more MMO elements which can be continually added.
  Pyuk

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/05
Posts: 650

11/23/12 12:13:22 AM#70
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

It's obvious that a lot of people would want it to happen.

SWG had so many elements that players appreciated and loved.

It's 7 years ( SWG pre cu era ) since it was shut downed and still people talk about how they miss it.

With SWTOR's failure and the upcoming resurrection of SW, it's time to act.

Who you talking to? Lucas? SOE? Disney? The forum trollers? The lampost? Who are you demanding to make this epic SW game? 

I make spreadsheets at work - I don't want to make them for the games I play.

  LoverNoFighter

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/12
Posts: 334

SWG pre cu > all

 
OP  11/23/12 3:51:13 AM#71
Originally posted by Pyuk
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

It's obvious that a lot of people would want it to happen.

SWG had so many elements that players appreciated and loved.

It's 7 years ( SWG pre cu era ) since it was shut downed and still people talk about how they miss it.

With SWTOR's failure and the upcoming resurrection of SW, it's time to act.

Who you talking to? Lucas? SOE? Disney? The forum trollers? The lampost? Who are you demanding to make this epic SW game? 

I'm talking to the entire universe.

  VincerKaden

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/12/06
Posts: 458

11/23/12 4:10:06 AM#72
Originally posted by Erythrocyte
It would be nice to see SWTOR just add a number of open-world and sandbox elements that SWG had.  It's Star Wars (from a different part of it's timeline) and its polished, adding more and more non-themepark elements would improve it's playerbase I would think.  If you look at WoW, you have the gear-grind, but you also have a large number of player's leveling-up trivial things like cooking and fishing.  SWTOR could learn from SWG in areas such as these while maintaining it's generally polished game play.  I realize this probably isn't in the cards for Bioware, I just can't help thinking a great single player game is there with SWTOR, now it just needs alot more MMO elements which can be continually added.

Part of SWG's charm was that things like cooking and fishing were NOT trivial. SWTOR already has a crafting system. I understand where you're going with your idea, but just sprinkling some "SWG" sugar over the "SWTOR" jello mold won't make a SWG 2.

  Rydeson

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3114

11/23/12 5:32:43 AM#73

     I doubt we'll ever see a SWG2, or another Star Wars game after SWTOR closes shop..  IMO.. Too many dev teams were just plain crazy lazy designing a true star wars theme.. I guess they thought the IP would sell itself, which they initially did.. SWG should of had a minimum of 30 planets to travel to.. I wish a star wars game had bounty hunters that actually hunted, and smugglers that actually smuggled.. I didn't mind the jedi classes in SWTOR, but I wish they avoided the holy trinity format and did something like GW2 did with self heals..  Crafting in SWG was far better then SWTOR, and I love a true player economy.. Player made items should be the best products, however I would still allow for low quality vendor items to keep the economy from inflating out of hand..

     As with SWG, I would have 99% of the content be open world, not instanced..  I would avoid linear progression and storylines at all cost.. I want characters that play out and create their biography, not relive one made up by a person in a cubicle..

  darkbamy

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/09/08
Posts: 109

11/23/12 5:36:59 AM#74

SWG2 (pre-cu)

 

 

NO

 

Now if they do combine NGE with pre-cu then yes...maybe. I mean even the hardcore pre-cu playes have to admit...there were some horrible things wrong with the pre-cu 

  Yakamomoto

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/24/12
Posts: 385

11/23/12 6:54:46 AM#75
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

It's obvious that a lot of people would want it to happen.

SWG had so many elements that players appreciated and loved.

It's 7 years ( SWG pre cu era ) since it was shut downed and still people talk about how they miss it.

With SWTOR's failure and the upcoming resurrection of SW, it's time to act.

Yes please!!

 

I'd pay whatever they want to play this

  gnarledwolf

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 1

11/23/12 9:08:58 AM#76

You've hit the nail on the head and said what I wanted to to start with.  SWG's failure was also player greed.  When SOE took degeneration of equipment and Battle Fatigue out of the game they took away a massive basis for the economy which was what drew me to the game in the first place.

 I always played a crafter and the way the game was set up, it made it worth all the effort to go out, forage for materials... only the best, grind my way up through the skills, and make equipment like it was a job.  I loved logging in to find several bills of sale since I last logged out and it made me want to go out and create more, and better, and varied types of things.  When SOE took away a need for me to do that, they also took away a real need for my profession, and the doctors, and the entertainers... though at least they redeemed the need for the entertainers by the end.  They also took away a need for players to need money other than to pay for trinkets for their homes.... or billions on paintings and statues.  When the economy went, so did a lot of the purpose for the game.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see the game revamped, only it doesn't have to be "Star Wars"   I'd love to see SWG 2 out there with better graphics, a new mythos... my God there's tons to choose from or make.  I've played SWGEMU and loved to see the old system again, but it also reminded me that the later years weren't as bad as players made them out to be because of the endless quests in game, which PRE-NGE didn't have many of.

Like many, I enjoyed going out and blasting the hell out of my enimies, solo or in teams: MY CHOICE on this... no forced teaming or PVP.  But I absolutely hate the grind today in mmorpg's where it's just go out and kill... go out and kill... I want a home to decorate how I will, things to craft and be creative about, an environment where you you are not DRAGGED AROUND BY THE NOSE saying this has to be done, then this, as endlessly as the thousands who came before.  SWG was about versitility.  If they can avoid everyone and their grandmother being jedi... personally, I loved it when they were rare and a real honor to achieve, I'd very much love to see SWG back in a new form.  Today... all the games are pretty much the same... and I'm very bored in a short time.

  darkhalf357x

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/25/12
Posts: 1041

I'm only playing the role chosen for me. Who you supposed to be?

11/23/12 9:20:56 AM#77
Originally posted by gnarledwolf

You've hit the nail on the head and said what I wanted to to start with.  SWG's failure was also player greed.  When SOE took degeneration of equipment and Battle Fatigue out of the game they took away a massive basis for the economy which was what drew me to the game in the first place.

 I always played a crafter and the way the game was set up, it made it worth all the effort to go out, forage for materials... only the best, grind my way up through the skills, and make equipment like it was a job.  I loved logging in to find several bills of sale since I last logged out and it made me want to go out and create more, and better, and varied types of things.  When SOE took away a need for me to do that, they also took away a real need for my profession, and the doctors, and the entertainers... though at least they redeemed the need for the entertainers by the end.  They also took away a need for players to need money other than to pay for trinkets for their homes.... or billions on paintings and statues.  When the economy went, so did a lot of the purpose for the game.

As far as I'm concerned, I'd love to see the game revamped, only it doesn't have to be "Star Wars"   I'd love to see SWG 2 out there with better graphics, a new mythos... my God there's tons to choose from or make.  I've played SWGEMU and loved to see the old system again, but it also reminded me that the later years weren't as bad as players made them out to be because of the endless quests in game, which PRE-NGE didn't have many of.

Like many, I enjoyed going out and blasting the hell out of my enimies, solo or in teams: MY CHOICE on this... no forced teaming or PVP.  But I absolutely hate the grind today in mmorpg's where it's just go out and kill... go out and kill... I want a home to decorate how I will, things to craft and be creative about, an environment where you you are not DRAGGED AROUND BY THE NOSE saying this has to be done, then this, as endlessly as the thousands who came before.  SWG was about versitility.  If they can avoid everyone and their grandmother being jedi... personally, I loved it when they were rare and a real honor to achieve, I'd very much love to see SWG back in a new form.  Today... all the games are pretty much the same... and I'm very bored in a short time.

Completely agree with everything you said.  Honestly believe people who are responsible for green lighting games dont give a f*** about this style of gameplay.

It would be niche at best reducing their coffers, and the people who hate the game would still play it so they could complain endlessly about how old this gameplay style is.

With that said, would love to see someone with balls and vision do this in a QUALITY way.  Emphasis is on QUALITY.  Im talking ANet level of love. Attention to detail.  Let it be small.  Let it be niche instead of trying to attract every single gamer.   I'd throw (lots of) my money at this.  

But I guess no one wants it... /shrug

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 9953

I've become dependent upon spell check. My apologies for stupid grammatical errors.

11/23/12 9:50:33 AM#78


Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Phlacc Wow, ok. For everybody that's saying "SWG was a great game, but too many bugs", remember, the OP is talking about a REMAKE! So, think of SWG with no bugs and better graphics, don't think of it as exactly as it was.   And for everybody that says SWG was a failure, get a clue, SWTOR was a failure, SWG did not fail.
TOR sold 2M, and kept >1M sub for a while. How many boxes did SWG sell?
Thats like comparing apples to oranges. The time between SWG and TOR are way diffeent considering only 30% of people had internet back then compared to 95% today. Also the hype and 200-400 million spent to make TOR was a waste, but SWG did far more for far less. Its like comparing a model T to a 2013 camaro and saying the model T was a failure because it couldnt get past 20 mph. Even though the model T in its prime was a great car.
To offer a couple bits of clarification: SOE announced that SWG had sold over 1 mil units, a short time after the JTL expansion was released, that being original box plus expansion, so it sold at least that many, and certainly a few more than just that.

Raph Koster stated several times that SWG was "very cheap" to make. Additionally, the number "around $30 mil" was mentioned, not sure if it was by him.

So, that makes it about 1/8-1/10 the price of TOR.

Ironically, when the NGE hit, SWG had 180k-200k paying accts, generating around $3 mil per month (and the numbers had been higher for the life of SWG prior to that). So, about 10% or so of the production cost per month on a continuing basis (which is very good for the MMO industry)

If you scaled TOR up to generating that same return, it would be 2 mil subs a month, which TOR never really had, and certainly did not maintain even if they ever had that many "paying subs" which I do not think happened.

 

So, on a longer term financial basis, SWG did much, much better for the amount spent on making it.

 




If you're only looking at percentages, SWG did very well. If you're looking at the overall amount of money that ends up available for profit and funding further development, SWG did not do very well.

If there's going to be another SWG like game, there has to be a financial incentive to do so. That means a company with enough resources to pay for the IP, and also develop a game that will pay for the cost to license the IP in addition to making enough profit to fund further development not only on the game that was written, but other games as well. Repeating SWG's success would not do that, so repeating SWG's success is not a financial incentive to write another SWG or SWG like game.

It's not going to happen. I can understand talking about what people would like to happen, but talking about SWG as if it's going to come around again is just a waste of time.

For every large, complex problem, there is a simple, clear solution that also happens to be absolutely wrong.

  free2play

Elite Member

Joined: 10/13/05
Posts: 1736

11/23/12 11:23:13 AM#79

Without the SW part.

It's what killed it. SW franchise put unreal expectations on the game.

In truth the things that set SWG apart were feature that can be replicated, like the dynamic resource spwns, Logged out harvesting, solid decay on all crafted items and in the start a pure crafted inventory, the 250 point skill system. Flagged world PvP in a PvE game - making populations balanced over servers and providing PvP that wasn't griefed in to the ground.

An SWG like game could work and very well.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 17953

11/23/12 3:33:31 PM#80
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by LoverNoFighter

It's obvious that a lot of people would want it to happen.

SWG had so many elements that players appreciated and loved.

It's 7 years ( SWG pre cu era ) since it was shut downed and still people talk about how they miss it.

With SWTOR's failure and the upcoming resurrection of SW, it's time to act.

Well, we don't know how long until TOR agreement runs out and even if some company started on it, it would take 4-5 years to produce (based on development cycles over the last 8 years or so).  And the original couldn't even reach the popularity level of their other product at the time EQ.

The only obvious thing is that there aren't enough paying customers to make it a success.

A bunch of people ranting here do not constitute "a lot of people" .. certainly not enough to support a MMO.

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