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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Sandbox...PvP...PvP...and more PvP. Where is the PvE?

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65 posts found
  TheScavenger

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 672

Those who ask a question, are stupid for 30 seconds. Those who never ask, are stupid for life.

 
OP  11/22/12 7:09:01 PM#1

Why is every single sandbox that has been released in the past 5 years been PvP and PvP and PvP?

 

Asheron's Call...sandbox...does have a PvP server...but plenty of PvE servers...but its ancient

Istaria is probably my favorite, only because of playable dragons...but its ancient too

There was SWG...personally I didn't like it...I think I was way more into Anarchy Online back then, which after the rough launch, was what I played (along with Istaria)

 

The only modern PvE sandbox that still looks good is Saga of Ryzom...its fun...but the game is so dead. No one is playing it...even the trial isle is completely dead. See 1-3 people at most in town, sometimes I'm only one in the main town...

 

You (well us?) sandboxers complain about lack of sandbox...but its WAY worse for those that want PvE sandbox. At least you guys get way more choices that are modern, and don't have to go to an ancient MMO or an MMO that is completely dead.

 

And no, after playing WoW for years...every themepark game I've played (even GW2), I go "okay...done all the content...like WoW way more (mostly for the lore and it being warcraft)...next"...I don't want a themepark MMO. If I did, I'll just play WoW, it does themepark the best imo. But I'm done with WoW and themepark MMOs. I can't get into them at all.

 

No, what I want a PvE sandbox game. And the only choice out there is Ryzom...and I would play that, if the game wasn't so dead...I actually thought the server merges would boost population, but after merges, population plummeted to worse than vanguard ever was. I've never seen such a dead game. At least vanguard ALWAYS had 20+ people on the trial isle. Ryzom there is 1-3 (or 0 before I get on it)...and at peak maybe its 8 or 9, once in a while it gets to 10 (very rare)...its just so dead.

 

So when you complain about lack of sandbox...think of those that want a PvE sandbox...we literally have no MODERN choices at all.

 

Isabella and Laenaya are on Photobucket!

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  Gormok

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/10
Posts: 388

11/22/12 7:24:03 PM#2
I approve of this thread. I loved Asheron's Call back in the day, and WoW was fun until Cata. I gave up on MMOs completely after the SWTOR fiasco. FF14 ARR looks promising but videos really dont give the real scope of how big and open the world really is. Other than that I am not really looking forward to any mmos, devs are either making action based combat or pvp focused mmos. Which I have no interest in, but I guess companies are saying  "it's time for us old geezers to move along".
  fernetek

Novice Member

Joined: 7/12/12
Posts: 62

11/22/12 7:30:21 PM#3

There is Greed Monger. It has PvE in most of the map and only a few areas of FFA PvP.

 

  joonkp1976

Novice Member

Joined: 10/25/11
Posts: 98

11/22/12 7:32:18 PM#4
It goes back to before WOW that is I think when companies started making keybaord based control-abled lamer then mouse veggie games.  I mean games like Ultima Online was great all with mouse veggie control scheme.  Laid back PvE mouse veggie games are my favorites as compared to super hyped hyper actioned or PvP modeled games.  My favorited game ever is Lineage 2, then Aion second, and third would be currently playing since it is free 'til level 49 of 50 in south korea, Rift.  Well I agree and let's enjoy gaming...  'happy' gaming, folks~!
  Niburu

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/12/12
Posts: 302

11/22/12 7:53:59 PM#5

Xsyon just startert there kickstarter, it is mostly about building stuff and hunting animals for ressources.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/382040989/xsyon-apocalypse

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13154

11/22/12 7:57:40 PM#6

There is A Tale in the Desert, but that's more than five years old as you said.

There is also Uncharted Waters Online, which did release in 2005 in Japan, but not until 2010 in the US.  And it's still getting new content, too, with the latest expansion released in Japan earlier this year.

  redcapp

Novice Member

Joined: 5/13/11
Posts: 733

11/22/12 8:04:04 PM#7

Agreed.

 

All of these pvp centric sandbox wanabe's miss the point of a virtual world just like themeparks do.  And I say this as an avid PvPer..

 

Truth be told, a lot of the 'sandbox' MMOs that are out today are really just PvP themeparks. 

  tom_gore

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 1803

11/23/12 2:32:43 AM#8
Originally posted by fernetek

There is Greed Monger. It has PvE in most of the map and only a few areas of FFA PvP.

 

This is the game to watch if you are into PvE sandbox games.

  Graveblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 388

"In the wheel of chance and fate, spinning as we watch and wait"

11/23/12 2:46:09 AM#9
We need Ultima Online 2 damnit! :P
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16452

11/23/12 2:55:41 AM#10

That is really a good question. I have nothing against PvP sandboxes but if sandboxes want to be a larger part of the MMO genre again we need different varieties.

A game more similar to Minecraft would be a good addition to the genre...

  StarI

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/18/06
Posts: 781

11/23/12 3:01:04 AM#11
There's planty of modern choices of what you call sandbox PvE games. It's just that some of us call them themeparks. ;)
  Shaike

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/12
Posts: 285

At first there were games, then MMOs, then MMORPGs then I understood I had no life :-)

11/23/12 3:10:49 AM#12
Originally posted by StarI
There's planty of modern choices of what you call sandbox PvE games. It's just that some of us call them themeparks. ;)

Give examples please because i do not know any......

Just my 2 cents...

  Grimmx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/11
Posts: 207

11/23/12 3:11:49 AM#13

Where is the Sandbox pvp?

EVE comes to mind, but what else?

We have like a gazillion pve games FFS.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16452

11/23/12 3:15:15 AM#14
Originally posted by StarI
There's planty of modern choices of what you call sandbox PvE games. It's just that some of us call them themeparks. ;)

No there isnt.

Themeparks tend to be questdriven games focused on looting stuff. There are a few hybrids like Vanguard with some sandbox parts but nothing really focused on building stuff which is the main part of real sandbox mechanics.

Sandboxes have player created content, themeparks usually tells you what to do.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16452

11/23/12 3:20:01 AM#15
Originally posted by Grimmx

Where is the Sandbox pvp?

EVE comes to mind, but what else?

We have like a gazillion pve games FFS.

There are a few others, like Darkfall, Mortal online and a few more. Adding a PvE sandbox wouldnt really hurt the PvP games and might actually boost sandboxes rather weak position in the genre right now. Salem is coming out pretty soon as well, and rumors say that a westernized version of Archeage isnt far away either.

It is clear the the genre needs a few quality sandboxes right now, but sandboxes needs to vary as well. Just cloning Eve or UO aint enough, just like cloning EQ and Wow isnt.

  Grimmx

Novice Member

Joined: 8/30/11
Posts: 207

11/23/12 3:34:28 AM#16
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Grimmx

Where is the Sandbox pvp?

EVE comes to mind, but what else?

We have like a gazillion pve games FFS.

There are a few others, like Darkfall, Mortal online and a few more. Adding a PvE sandbox wouldnt really hurt the PvP games and might actually boost sandboxes rather weak position in the genre right now. Salem is coming out pretty soon as well, and rumors say that a westernized version of Archeage isnt far away either.

It is clear the the genre needs a few quality sandboxes right now, but sandboxes needs to vary as well. Just cloning Eve or UO aint enough, just like cloning EQ and Wow isnt.

No it isnt.

Darkfall is closed for the moment. DF2 is starting up again soon, but its not certain when because they have postponed once they can do it twice.

Mortal Online? dont make me laugh. Its an indie game insulting indie developers.

Salem? again Indie.

Archage, hasnt come out so why mention it?

That leaves EvE ? EvE isnt for everyone because its a space MMO. Ive personally tried playing EVE 3 times because its the ONLY MMORPG with FFA out there now.

Thats why find it hillarious that people post about why pve people doesnt have a sandbox pve game?

Seriosly, get a grip. Its pve everywhere.

  Graveblade

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 388

"In the wheel of chance and fate, spinning as we watch and wait"

11/23/12 3:41:24 AM#17

I agree Loke but also imagine UO2.

 

I would still play ultima online if they updated the graphics (again lol) made it run smooth and a better UI. Or a 3d version.

Fact is, as Richard Garriot has said, they wanted to make everything interactable in the world for UO. Just because of that very fact it meant the pve was quite substantial. You could do what you want within the world when it came to tradeskills and such.

 

Why will no one make a game like that nowadays?

 

Time and money I guess... Companies want max profit for minimal work. People do not make a game because they are an entrepreneur and have a creative "vision". To make a game like that, especially if it was 3d, would be a hell of alot of work and it is a gamble but it could also be the best mmorpg ever.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11895

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, Wildstar, and Combat Arms

11/23/12 3:44:54 AM#18
Originally posted by TheScavenger

So when you complain about lack of sandbox...think of those that want a PvE sandbox...we literally have no MODERN choices at all.

There are plenty of PvE sandboxes; they're just not for you. Most AAA devs aren't going to create a PvE sandbox for the average jaded gamer because they know that the vocal minority will tear it to pieces as "fail" within minutes after the first announcement of it. Making a game where half of your PR and marketing is spent trying to counter the negativity from the same people you are making it for is just not a sound business plan.

ATITD, Free Realms and Puzzle Pirates are three sandbox style MMOs. None of them you want.

Of the sandbox-style games that also have a heavy social influence - Second Life, Kaneva, There, vMTV - you don't want those either.

The vocal sandbox crowd has complained themselves into irrelevance, so that style of game, which is predominantly PvE, is designed to target other segments.

The most classic example is UO. UO has both PvE sandbox and PvE sandbox on every shard. You never hear players extolling the virtues and greatness of Trammel, which means devs aren't hearing it either. There's a definite market for PvE sandboxes which is why devs are creating them. Unfortunately you're not part of that target market.

 

 

 

  dariuszp

Novice Member

Joined: 1/19/12
Posts: 187

11/23/12 3:57:55 AM#19
Originally posted by TheScavenger

Why is every single sandbox that has been released in the past 5 years been PvP and PvP and PvP?

 Because all sandbox game are player oriented. PVP in that game does not meant you HAVE to kill other players. It mean you CAN kill other players.

That force players to cooperate. Look at EVE. There you have some corps you  don't want to mess with. You don't engage their members no mater what if you have no strength behind you. Why ? Because they will kill you over and over every time you come in range of their canons. 

Asheron's Call...sandbox...does have a PvP server...but plenty of PvE servers...but its ancient

Istaria is probably my favorite, only because of playable dragons...but its ancient too

There was SWG...personally I didn't like it...I think I was way more into Anarchy Online back then, which after the rough launch, was what I played (along with Istaria)

 

The only modern PvE sandbox that still looks good is Saga of Ryzom...its fun...but the game is so dead. No one is playing it...even the trial isle is completely dead. See 1-3 people at most in town, sometimes I'm only one in the main town...

 

You (well us?) sandboxers complain about lack of sandbox...but its WAY worse for those that want PvE sandbox. At least you guys get way more choices that are modern, and don't have to go to an ancient MMO or an MMO that is completely dead.

 

And no, after playing WoW for years...every themepark game I've played (even GW2), I go "okay...done all the content...like WoW way more (mostly for the lore and it being warcraft)...next"...I don't want a themepark MMO. If I did, I'll just play WoW, it does themepark the best imo. But I'm done with WoW and themepark MMOs. I can't get into them at all.

 

No, what I want a PvE sandbox game. And the only choice out there is Ryzom...and I would play that, if the game wasn't so dead...I actually thought the server merges would boost population, but after merges, population plummeted to worse than vanguard ever was. I've never seen such a dead game. At least vanguard ALWAYS had 20+ people on the trial isle. Ryzom there is 1-3 (or 0 before I get on it)...and at peak maybe its 8 or 9, once in a while it gets to 10 (very rare)...its just so dead.

 Yeah but what you want to do in PVE sandbox ? Run around, holding hands with other players and killing mindless monsters ? You want to build castle or something ? What is the point of no one will siege it ?

Sandbox is all about tools and freedom to do whatever you want with them. That's it. This is why Day Z is so much fun. If you kill player - he stay dead. If he kill you, you stay dead. War Z on the other hand "kill" your player for around 24 hours. You can't play that character for next day if he is killed.

This create tension. This is fun. 2 or more players helping each other in Day Z is a GREAT help. BUT every time you encounter one (especially well armed) you have no idea if in next hours he will still help you or shoot you in the back.

This is something we want from sandbox games. World with actions and consequences. With tension. Running around killing monsters is stupid and pointless. It's boring. And it's give you nothing since if you are dead you will just respawn on some safe location nerby.

In real sandbox MMO that I love you eather stay dead or you will loose all your stuff. As example in EVE when they ganked me and blow up my battleship, I lost ship that cost around 300.000.000 (ship + equipment + cargo). That's around 14€ if I remember (if exchange is the same as back then).

From one fight I could not espace. That is what I love.

So when you complain about lack of sandbox...think of those that want a PvE sandbox...we literally have no MODERN choices at all. 

Yeah, because if you want to run around, hold hands and kill some mobs with no real consequences or risk - go play themeparks like TOR, WOW or GW2.

 

  MumboJumbo

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 3117

Veni, Vidi, Converti

11/23/12 4:00:11 AM#20

Personally I think a sandbox mmorpg should be integrated PvE & PvP. And when I say pvp, I mean player interacting with player as well as interacting with Environment for pve. Out of:

  • Scholar
  • Soldier
  • Merchant
  • Crafter

-> Most people want to play the soldier archetype, so that tends to be where the gameplay is? If the game can provide integration with all the above, it means the soldiers need resources from the pve and items from the crafters and money from the merchants and idk about scholars... perhaps they can work things, upgrade things?

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