Originally posted by Vannor
They would have carried on finishing the game without kickstarter.. but.. when in rome? Everyone else is doing the kickstarter thing (which I hate with a passion personally, but that's another topic) and getting free money so why shouldn't they? Might as well get a hand out from financial investors that don't expect a return on their financial investment if people are stupid enough to do it.

Personally I don't think kickstarter should be used to prop up failing games and companies.  Its like giving a gaming company a bailout with no payback required.  If they want their game to survive they should invest their own dollars or find investors that will hold them accountable.  I'm not here to give bad companies welfare, the whole idea is beyond stupid.  Kickstarter should be for true indies with a great idea/prototype that dont' have the means to get it done alone.

Originally posted by treysmooth

Originally posted by Vannor
They would have carried on finishing the game without kickstarter.. but.. when in rome? Everyone else is doing the kickstarter thing (which I hate with a passion personally, but that's another topic) and getting free money so why shouldn't they? Might as well get a hand out from financial investors that don't expect a return on their financial investment if people are stupid enough to do it.

Personally I don't think kickstarter should be used to prop up failing games and companies.  Its like giving a gaming company a bailout with no payback required.  If they want their game to survive they should invest their own dollars or find investors that will hold them accountable.  I'm not here to give bad companies welfare, the whole idea is beyond stupid.  Kickstarter should be for true indies with a great idea/prototype that dont' have the means to get it done alone.

Well, its the players option to invest or not. I think personally, I wouldnt put money into something I didnt think had a fair chance at doing ok. But if you believe your money will be put to good use, I say invest/donate.

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by Myrdynn

so a game that already charges a sub to play, now wants kickstarter money

Blizzard announces WOW kickstarter for next expansion

 

Its rather pathetic and sad, that money could be better spent on more viable projects.  Thats all the genre needs, every failed/struggling MMO looking for a hand out at the expense of others.

Well, you guys don't wanna pay monthly fee's anymore, it all has to be F2P now. They need to get  money from you somehow, it is a business. You guys won't be happy until the whole MMO space disapears, then you'll br crying about it once it's gone. "Man, what happened to all the MMO's? Oh yeah, we sucked them all dry until there was nothing left."

I don't get you guys, cry because there a monthly sub, cry because it's F2P, then cry when they start a kickstarter campaign.

However, saying all that, I do agree that money should be spent on better things, BUT, it's not Dev's of Xyson fault. Even if there were better projects on Kickstarter, who would pledge? People are selfish these days, they would rather pledge towards something they can have, instead of pledging and helping someone else.

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by psiicat

Originally posted by Hancakes
"Meeting our minimum goal will allow us to double the size of our development team and greatly increase the speed and quality of production."   Isn't the current team much smaller than it once was?

Blink.. wait wasn't the dev staff one person at one point?

1-2.... But given the progress thus far and the lofty goals, they'd need a 10x + team expansion.  Everything came to a stand still while Jordi was traveling to pickup his new wife, so I'd guess the teams numbers 1 fulltime atm.

 

"I apologize for the delay in these answers. These past few months have been very hectic with the website move, setting up the trial server and preparations for the future of Xsyon. I have also had a lot to deal with personally with my wife's pending immigration to the US, the reason for my current travels."

Really? 2 people? Well if this goes through and they double their development team to a whopping 4 people, at least the kickstarter will ensure they get their salary for next year.

Originally posted by MrDDT

Originally posted by treysmooth

Originally posted by Vannor
They would have carried on finishing the game without kickstarter.. but.. when in rome? Everyone else is doing the kickstarter thing (which I hate with a passion personally, but that's another topic) and getting free money so why shouldn't they? Might as well get a hand out from financial investors that don't expect a return on their financial investment if people are stupid enough to do it.

Personally I don't think kickstarter should be used to prop up failing games and companies.  Its like giving a gaming company a bailout with no payback required.  If they want their game to survive they should invest their own dollars or find investors that will hold them accountable.  I'm not here to give bad companies welfare, the whole idea is beyond stupid.  Kickstarter should be for true indies with a great idea/prototype that dont' have the means to get it done alone.

Well, its the players option to invest or not. I think personally, I wouldnt put money into something I didnt think had a fair chance at doing ok. But if you believe your money will be put to good use, I say invest/donate.

I think the whole kickstarter concept is an insult to business and an insult to those that invest. I wish it would go away. Not only does it give undeserving people rediculous amounts of funding.. it is unfair to those that are investing.

In normal business anyone that invests has a stake in that project and continues to earn money back if it is successful. Sure, it's optional to invest on kickstarter.. investing has always been optional.. but people are only willingly doing so in this way because they havn't seen the light.. these are naive investors that don't realise they 'should' be intitled to proper investments laws, procedures and regulations. It skips the laws because they use the word 'donate'. Any decent company would, and should be made to, give investors a return on their investment in the real world; give money back.. not some crappy virtual items or your name on an ingame monument. Investors are entitled to it. In this situation, donate is world's away from what they are really doing. You donate to charities or non profit companies (like freeware software developers).. you invest in companies that use your money to make money.

250k.. That's life changing cash! They might get it for absolutely nothing and then use it to make even MORE money for themselves. It should be making money for those that gave it AND those that use it. It's a joke....

Originally posted by Phlacc

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by Myrdynn

so a game that already charges a sub to play, now wants kickstarter money

Blizzard announces WOW kickstarter for next expansion

 

Its rather pathetic and sad, that money could be better spent on more viable projects.  Thats all the genre needs, every failed/struggling MMO looking for a hand out at the expense of others.

 

Well, you guys don't wanna pay monthly fee's anymore, it all has to be F2P now. They need to get  money from you somehow, it is a business. You guys won't be happy until the whole MMO space disapears, then you'll br crying about it once it's gone. "Man, what happened to all the MMO's? Oh yeah, we sucked them all dry until there was nothing left."

 

I don't get you guys, cry because there a monthly sub, cry because it's F2P, then cry when they start a kickstarter campaign.

What the hell are you talking about?  Xsyon charges monthly and I've never said anything about F2P. 

Originally posted by Phlacc

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by Myrdynn

so a game that already charges a sub to play, now wants kickstarter money

Blizzard announces WOW kickstarter for next expansion

 

Its rather pathetic and sad, that money could be better spent on more viable projects.  Thats all the genre needs, every failed/struggling MMO looking for a hand out at the expense of others.

 

Well, you guys don't wanna pay monthly fee's anymore, it all has to be F2P now. They need to get  money from you somehow, it is a business. You guys won't be happy until the whole MMO space disapears, then you'll br crying about it once it's gone. "Man, what happened to all the MMO's? Oh yeah, we sucked them all dry until there was nothing left."

 

I don't get you guys, cry because there a monthly sub, cry because it's F2P, then cry when they start a kickstarter campaign.

However, saying all that, I do agree that money should be spent on better things, BUT, it's not Dev's of Xyson fault. Even if there were better projects on Kickstarter, who would pledge? People are selfish these days, they would rather pledge towards something they can have, instead of pledging and helping someone else.

You are referring to everyone on this forum when you say "you people" are you not?  The world doesn't revolve around you my friend.

Originally posted by Phlacc

Originally posted by Hancakes

Originally posted by Myrdynn

so a game that already charges a sub to play, now wants kickstarter money

Blizzard announces WOW kickstarter for next expansion

 

Its rather pathetic and sad, that money could be better spent on more viable projects.  Thats all the genre needs, every failed/struggling MMO looking for a hand out at the expense of others.

 

Well, you guys don't wanna pay monthly fee's anymore, it all has to be F2P now. They need to get  money from you somehow, it is a business. You guys won't be happy until the whole MMO space disapears, then you'll br crying about it once it's gone. "Man, what happened to all the MMO's? Oh yeah, we sucked them all dry until there was nothing left."

 

I don't get you guys, cry because there a monthly sub, cry because it's F2P, then cry when they start a kickstarter campaign.

However, saying all that, I do agree that money should be spent on better things, BUT, it's not Dev's of Xyson fault. Even if there were better projects on Kickstarter, who would pledge? People are selfish these days, they would rather pledge towards something they can have, instead of pledging and helping someone else.

I dont know where you got this idea.  You can search every single post I have ever posted, I have never once bashed a sub model for being a sub model.  I bash f2p that does require what is known as pay2win.  I dont bash TSW which I have a lifetime sub for having a cash shop either.  I think all gaming companies should be able to try to make a living, however, doing a kickstarter for a game that is already launched, and charging a sub is just too much.  Where is all the money from the subs going?

Its a garbage game regardless, but this just adds too it

mmo games dont get many second chances. this one won't either.

it had a development period, it got delayed many times, it still isn't ready?

time to brand it as "incomplete, made by incompetents, failed project" and move on.

Guess people aren't being too forgiving here, eh?  Can't blme any of them eiter.  I got suckered in to this game when it first released.  I'm not wasting 2 more months on my life on it again.

This game, looking at it, still hasn't lived up to the promises it made when it first came out.  Now they want more money to continue bailing themselves out of this sinking ship.  Money to buy a product twith features that the original was already supposed to include.

Funny how a game like DayZ can do so well despite being a mod, but a full game like this fails miserably.  

I can understand all the negativism about the game. I'm not sure if the Kickstarter campaign, and the goal of it are right or not. I can only say that I see great potential in Xsyon, and I would be very happy if it succeeds.

For what it is - a game made by few, I think, it's very well made. But it needs a lot more to become a real MMO. As in it current state of development it is more of a building simulator than a complete complex world with politics and warfare.

I wish Xsyon luck.

Originally posted by Vannor

I think the whole kickstarter concept is an insult to business and an insult to those that invest. I wish it would go away. Not only does it give undeserving people rediculous amounts of funding.. it is unfair to those that are investing.

In normal business anyone that invests has a stake in that project and continues to earn money back if it is successful. Sure, it's optional to invest on kickstarter.. investing has always been optional.. but people are only willingly doing so in this way because they havn't seen the light.. these are naive investors that don't realise they 'should' be intitled to proper investments laws, procedures and regulations. It skips the laws because they use the word 'donate'. Any decent company would, and should be made to, give investors a return on their investment in the real world; give money back.. not some crappy virtual items or your name on an ingame monument. Investors are entitled to it. In this situation, donate is world's away from what they are really doing. You donate to charities or non profit companies (like freeware software developers).. you invest in companies that use your money to make money.

250k.. That's life changing cash! They might get it for absolutely nothing and then use it to make even MORE money for themselves. It should be making money for those that gave it AND those that use it. It's a joke....

While I basically agree with you, you have to remember that those donating are adults, making their own desicions about what to do with their own money. If someone wants to donate thousands of $ to failed games like Xsyon or MO (which didn't even go through Kickstarter but started their own donation system), it's his own choice. No one is forcing anybody, and the whole thing is straightforward - you "invest" at your own risk. It doesn't make said person less of a fool, but hey, there's one born every minute, so...

That said, I think it's ridiculous that Kickstarter accepts a game like Xsyon - it lanched two years ago, it costs money to purchase and charges a monthly fee. It's an actual business now, not a project that needs to get "kickstarted" through crowdfunding. If it can't make ends meet then too bad, but begging for more money just looks pathetic.

On a general level I think the whole KS thing has gone out of hand; it seems like new ambitious MMOs are popping up like mushrooms all over the place, and there are plenty of naïve dreamers who are happy to throw money at them just because they promise some revolutionary stuff or claim to be the next UO or whatever.

There will probably be a backlash soon, when many of these projects don't deliver and people start to feel bamboozled. Which is a shame too, since it will hurt the legit indie devs who use KS to make actual, working products.  

Originally posted by Biskop

Originally posted by Vannor

I think the whole kickstarter concept is an insult to business and an insult to those that invest. I wish it would go away. Not only does it give undeserving people rediculous amounts of funding.. it is unfair to those that are investing.

In normal business anyone that invests has a stake in that project and continues to earn money back if it is successful. Sure, it's optional to invest on kickstarter.. investing has always been optional.. but people are only willingly doing so in this way because they havn't seen the light.. these are naive investors that don't realise they 'should' be intitled to proper investments laws, procedures and regulations. It skips the laws because they use the word 'donate'. Any decent company would, and should be made to, give investors a return on their investment in the real world; give money back.. not some crappy virtual items or your name on an ingame monument. Investors are entitled to it. In this situation, donate is world's away from what they are really doing. You donate to charities or non profit companies (like freeware software developers).. you invest in companies that use your money to make money.

250k.. That's life changing cash! They might get it for absolutely nothing and then use it to make even MORE money for themselves. It should be making money for those that gave it AND those that use it. It's a joke....

 

That said, I think it's ridiculous that Kickstarter accepts a game like Xsyon - it lanched two years ago, it costs money to purchase and charges a monthly fee. It's an actual business now, not a project that needs to get "kickstarted" through crowdfunding. If it can't make ends meet then too bad, but begging for more money just looks pathetic.

Kickstart just wants their 5% $$$ and Jordi has no shame.

---

Originally posted by Hancakes:
Kickstart just wants their 5% $$$ and Jordi has no shame.

---

True. It's just a capitalistic business as any other. They are after their fast profit no matter what. As in any other business scheme - as long as there are enough suckers to maintain profit - it will continue to exists.

14 days in and Xsyon only needs $244,004.00 more in the next 26 days.   At this rate, they'll only reach 4-5% of the goal.

Originally posted by Hancakes

14 days in and Xsyon only needs $244,004.00 more in the next 26 days.   At this rate, they'll only reach 4-5% of the goal.

it's obvious it failed.

donations decline in rate as time passes.

I'll pledge 100 like I did for Star Citizen and Elite.

Xsyon is a great project I like the devs

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by Hancakes

14 days in and Xsyon only needs $244,004.00 more in the next 26 days.   At this rate, they'll only reach 4-5% of the goal.

it's obvious it failed.

 

donations decline in rate as time passes.

 Depends on how close you get. I've seen some kickstarters get half their goal on the last day. Not that I think Xsyon will.