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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Has the mass exodus begun for GW2?

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341 posts found
  MurlockDance

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1216

11/20/12 12:55:46 PM#221
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by MurlockDance
I am not leaving the game for good since it is non-sub based, but I certainly won't be playing it that often. I am also unlikely to buy any expacs or gems, unless ANet turns around. The Ascended gear is a major turnoff to me.

[mod edit]

 

 

I didn't have to post it, but I did. Just the same as you didn't have to post a reply, but you did.

My reply was to the OP and his discussion. Yours was pretty much pointless, just telling me to shut up. Nice attitude to have on a gaming forum, kudos to you.

If you think ANext is not expecting people to keep on paying you are sorely wrong. If I paid 15 USD a month on gems, the same amount for the average sub in a sub-based MMO, they would make 180 USD a year from me. That is the same as buying the game another 3 times at the original retail price for an SE. So that is totally not interesting to them. I guess you are right. Let alone buying expacs that might retail anywhere between 30 and 60 USD....

They want to turn off their players so that we never buy an expac or spend money on gems...

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7735

Logic be damned!

11/20/12 1:01:05 PM#222
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by BadSpock
 

So rather than putting things in the context with you being the self proclaimed speaker for the masses, why don't you rewrite the statement saying how this applies to you.  Just because YOU need such substantial rewards does not mean I want the same thing. 

Here is an example;  I find people that are self-righteously proclaiming to know the desires of the masses, tend to be blinded by their own ego.

Umm what? When did I ever say "I" or "me" or imply I was dictating or on some ego trip?

I'm simply shedding light to truths that are self evident all to themselves.

History is a great teacher.

Popular may not = good but it certainly shows what has mass appeal.

Anet designed GW2 for mass appeal, so comparisons are relevant and important.

They dropped the ball. Plain and simple.

They had/have some really, really great ideas that I love in the game - but they also really, really missed the mark on almost a psychological level to connect with the modern gamer.

I attempted to shed light on how this might be so.

And the truth is evident in their actions in response to what has happened since launch.

Writing is on the wall man.

Now Playing: Destiny

  botrytis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2527

11/20/12 1:01:21 PM#223
Originally posted by MurlockDance
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by MurlockDance
I am not leaving the game for good since it is non-sub based, but I certainly won't be playing it that often. I am also unlikely to buy any expacs or gems, unless ANet turns around. The Ascended gear is a major turnoff to me.
[mod edit]

I didn't have to post it, but I did. Just the same as you didn't have to post a reply, but you did.

My reply was to the OP and his discussion. Yours was pretty much pointless, just telling me to shut up. Nice attitude to have on a gaming forum, kudos to you.

If you think ANext is not expecting people to keep on paying you are sorely wrong. If I paid 15 USD a month on gems, the same amount for the average sub in a sub-based MMO, they would make 180 USD a year from me. That is the same as buying the game another 3 times at the original retail price for an SE. So that is totally not interesting to them. I guess you are right. Let alone buying expacs that might retail anywhere between 30 and 60 USD....

They want to turn off their players so that we never buy an expac or spend money on gems...

They had the same system in GW1 - with costumes every major holiday and the like. I never bought them. I didn't spend ANY money in the CS in GW1 and you don't in this one either. If you think you do, then I think, you may be mistaken.

 

I have over 200 guildmates currently and we had a poll about how much they spent on GW2 gems so far. Most used in game gold to get gems, was the Major outcome of that poll. So, NO you don't HAVE TO SPEND THAT MUCH IN THE CS and in fact you don't have to spend anything in the CS. It is your choice.

 

That is way different from a sub game where you have to pay in order to play. They are not the same and equating them to be the same is not a valid argument.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  agentsi1511

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 11

11/20/12 1:02:55 PM#224

The fact is simple, GW2 was over hyped and under delivered.(at least in my personal experience) All but two of my friends quit GW2 within a month. You hit level 80, then realize that there was no puporse to leveling in the first place. What is there to do at 80 other than grind? Dungeons aren't fun without some sort of reward, and sorry Weapon/Gear skins are not rewards to me.  PvP is lackluster, yes it is somewhat balanced compared to other games, but it still didn't give me the thrill of sieging in Warhammer, or Breaking the 2.2k bracket in Arena(I'm not elite, just had good teammates and a bit of luck). I wanted so badly for this game to replace WoW, or Rift, but sadly, it doesn't come anywhere close as to being a overall complete game. 

Now they've added the first step in their gear tredmill....But instead of you getting gear that is actually useful, you now.."HAVE" to have this gear just to progess, no quesitons asked. That is worse than anything wow has done ever imo. Give you items with "almost" identical stats... but special gem slots so you can progress? What a bunch of bullshit. 

Again, this is my opinion, no need for people to get angry, or flame. Just stating what I deem to be facts in my world. Good riddence GW2. 

At least the uninstall was painless.

  killion81

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/31/06
Posts: 888

11/20/12 1:07:44 PM#225
Originally posted by MurlockDance
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by MurlockDance
I am not leaving the game for good since it is non-sub based, but I certainly won't be playing it that often. I am also unlikely to buy any expacs or gems, unless ANet turns around. The Ascended gear is a major turnoff to me.

You didn't have to post that here - you could just leave. Or do you want people and A.Net to scream, "NO PLEASE DON'T LEAVE!! WE NEED YOUR MONEY - WAIT WE GOT IT FROM THE BOX.'  SEE YA!!

 

 

I didn't have to post it, but I did. Just the same as you didn't have to post a reply, but you did.

My reply was to the OP and his discussion. Yours was pretty much pointless, just telling me to shut up. Nice attitude to have on a gaming forum, kudos to you.

If you think ANext is not expecting people to keep on paying you are sorely wrong. If I paid 15 USD a month on gems, the same amount for the average sub in a sub-based MMO, they would make 180 USD a year from me. That is the same as buying the game another 3 times at the original retail price for an SE. So that is totally not interesting to them. I guess you are right. Let alone buying expacs that might retail anywhere between 30 and 60 USD....

They want to turn off their players so that we never buy an expac or spend money on gems...

 

It doesn't seem like the GW2 Fan(atic)s are all that interested in what is logically good for "their" game long-term.  Rather, they are focused on aggressively "disproving" opinions that differ from their own.  I don't feel like that approach is going to help slow or stop the mass exodus of players from "their" game.

I believe that a better approach would be to discuss why people are becoming bored and then bringing those points up to the ANet devs through official channels.  If you really care about the game, you need to want it to retain players.  The smaller the Gem Store market becomes, the more aggressive it will get.  People can downplay the importance of the Gem Store to ANet's revenue model all they want, but the fact is ANet hired a Monetization Producer to run the Gem Store.  Someone's full time salaried position is to make sure the Gem Store is profitable.  That sounds like it's important.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3088

I am more than some of my parts

11/20/12 1:54:38 PM#226
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by BadSpock

Well I think Anet tried to bring some stuff over from GW1 that worked in a lobby style game that wouldn't and obviously doesn't work in a persistent world style game ala GW2.

If you are doing a lobby style game, you have to have challenge, dynamic interaction (combat), and measurebale gains (progression.)

It doesn't matter if you have to replay the same mission or area dozens of times if that area presents a challenge that must be overcome, if you are required to play competently with precision, and you have measurable gains.

That's pretty much the bread and butter of the "themepark" success of games like WoW, which is in itself simply an extension of the Diablo addicitive design philosophy that has been/is still proven to work and be popular.

Hell even FPS games like the Halo series and CoD have done incredibly well following those three basic tennants.

What happened with GW2 is that Anet is asking players to repeat the same missions or areas dozens of times but

-the challenge is artificial, like games of old like Contra etc. it's not really hard per say it's just unforgiving - which leads to frustration more than anything.

-there really is no precisioin or required competence in the game play because all of the professions are homogonized into bland replicas of fully formed roles in other games (including their own freshman effort) and as such the "skill" required is summarized into whack-a-mole which even children only find fun at the county fair for a few minutes.

-and the rewards are completely undesirable by the masses i.e. no progression.

 

 

So rather than putting things in the context with you being the self proclaimed speaker for the masses, why don't you rewrite the statement saying how this applies to you.  Just because YOU need such substantial rewards does not mean I want the same thing. 

Here is an example;  I find people that are self-righteously proclaiming to know the desires of the masses, tend to be blinded by their own ego.

Umm what? When did I ever say "I" or "me" or imply I was dictating or on some ego trip?

I'm simply shedding light to truths that are self evident all to themselves.

History is a great teacher.

Popular may not = good but it certainly shows what has mass appeal.

Anet designed GW2 for mass appeal, so comparisons are relevant and important.

They dropped the ball. Plain and simple.

They had/have some really, really great ideas that I love in the game - but they also really, really missed the mark on almost a psychological level to connect with the modern gamer.

I attempted to shed light on how this might be so.

And the truth is evident in their actions in response to what has happened since launch.

Writing is on the wall man.

I highlighted the part of your original text which I was referring to.

I don't want to have a gear progression based off of stats and I think that GW1 did a better job than GW2 in this regard. I think that gear stat progression is just a cheap excuse for putting out easy content, and I applaud the efforts of people that put out the extra work for horizontal progression. 

See how I structured that paragraph without telling everybody else what they were supposed to think.

 

As for your rebuttal, I am curious as to what resources you use to understand the psychology of the modern gamer.  Did you read a book or perform a study? I'm lead to beleive by your candid attitude, that you would equate yourself to be somewhat of an expert, and I would really like to know the source of your inspiration.

 

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  MurlockDance

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1216

11/21/12 4:18:47 AM#227
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by MurlockDance

I didn't have to post it, but I did. Just the same as you didn't have to post a reply, but you did.

My reply was to the OP and his discussion. Yours was pretty much pointless, just telling me to shut up. Nice attitude to have on a gaming forum, kudos to you.

If you think ANext is not expecting people to keep on paying you are sorely wrong. If I paid 15 USD a month on gems, the same amount for the average sub in a sub-based MMO, they would make 180 USD a year from me. That is the same as buying the game another 3 times at the original retail price for an SE. So that is totally not interesting to them. I guess you are right. Let alone buying expacs that might retail anywhere between 30 and 60 USD....

They want to turn off their players so that we never buy an expac or spend money on gems...

They had the same system in GW1 - with costumes every major holiday and the like. I never bought them. I didn't spend ANY money in the CS in GW1 and you don't in this one either. If you think you do, then I think, you may be mistaken.

 

I have over 200 guildmates currently and we had a poll about how much they spent on GW2 gems so far. Most used in game gold to get gems, was the Major outcome of that poll. So, NO you don't HAVE TO SPEND THAT MUCH IN THE CS and in fact you don't have to spend anything in the CS. It is your choice.

 

That is way different from a sub game where you have to pay in order to play. They are not the same and equating them to be the same is not a valid argument.

You are putting thoughts into my head that aren't there just to try to prove some point that is not even worth making. No where in my post did I say that I felt I had to pay anything beyond the initial price of the box or expac.

I am not mistaken about having to or not having to spend money in the cash shop. If a game is really good and I like the devs, I CHOOSE to spend money in the cash shop. That is how it works with ANet thank goodness. I did that for GW1 when I played it heavily. I have no problems spending 15 USD/month for a game that I really enjoy since I would put any money expenditure beyond the box price on par with what I feel is in line with the subscription games. The devs are fully hoping that people in general will feel like I do if not on how much they are willing to part with, but at least in paying further.

Let me re-emphasize that again: ANet hopes that we players enjoy their game so much that we are willing to spend cash in their cash shop and eventually buy expacs. If players are turned off and don't, then there will be big issues for further development of GW2 and not only might players see a more aggressive cash shop, but further content might not be released as quickly or to a high level of quality as it could be.

 

If you are just wanting to bicker for the sake of bickering, I have nothing more to say to you.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  MurlockDance

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1216

11/21/12 4:33:50 AM#228
Originally posted by killion81
 

It doesn't seem like the GW2 Fan(atic)s are all that interested in what is logically good for "their" game long-term.  Rather, they are focused on aggressively "disproving" opinions that differ from their own.  I don't feel like that approach is going to help slow or stop the mass exodus of players from "their" game.

I believe that a better approach would be to discuss why people are becoming bored and then bringing those points up to the ANet devs through official channels.  If you really care about the game, you need to want it to retain players.  The smaller the Gem Store market becomes, the more aggressive it will get.  People can downplay the importance of the Gem Store to ANet's revenue model all they want, but the fact is ANet hired a Monetization Producer to run the Gem Store.  Someone's full time salaried position is to make sure the Gem Store is profitable.  That sounds like it's important.

I absolutely agree with you, well said, although I would prefer to say "high turnaround" of players rather than "mass exodus" because exodus denotes a movement from A to be B with the very likely outcome that those who are leaving can never go back. Obviously, you can come back to GW2 anytime once you've bought the box, which is what my original post was about though I guess I didn't expand on it enough.

High turnaround means players come and leave quickly and even if they do return again at some point, they might not play long enough to get hooked. A player who is hooked will have an increased chances of spending money on the cash shop or buying expacs.

High turnaround also causes problems for the community in the game in my opinion. How can you ever make long-term friends if some people are there for a few days and then disappear for a month? This is also an issue for guilds. Long-term ingame friends usually means players will play the game regularly for the long-term: if you read a lot of threads about WoW and its longetivity, players often say that the only reason why they stay is because their friends are in the game.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  rmd12

Novice Member

Joined: 5/30/07
Posts: 3

11/21/12 5:04:58 AM#229

Im huge fan of Guild Wars 1. Probably the best mmo experience i have ever had. 

However Guild Wars 2 is simply badly designed. Important systems that keep people playing are simply not in place and now there are headed the wrong direction again. Gear grind is not what the game lacks.

 

  1. You simply can not play an MMORPGs on and off. its not the nature of the genre. You play MMORPGs to play with other people. If they stop playing, playing alone sucks.
  2. Horrible title system. They are basically invisible and generic. So unlike Guild Wars 1 you have nothing to work towards. Guild Wars 1 didnt have gear grind either but the implementation of gear sets (and the amount of and diversity of style) was much better. Earning titles in that game was amazingly rewarding. PvP titles even had special emotes.
  3. In Guild Wars 1 you didnt have to grind dungeons. Gear-sets required materials which you could work towards getting however you wanted, you werent "forced" to do any particular thing.
  4. Why are people bored? The game is simply empty. Nothing seem to matter all there is to endgame is badly designed gear grind. MMORPGs are FUN becouse you can accomplish something or work towards something each day. If this element is missing the game becomes pointless. (Legendaries alone are simply not enough)
  5. I also believe the combat system gets really boring after a while. GW1 had amazing depth which GW2 lacks. There arent enough viable combinations and the fact that skills are tied to weapons is a huge limiting factor. I could spend hours in GW1 making new  8 skill builds and having fun in random arena. Here all you can change are traits and 3 skills.  And yes the trait system is also a step back from GW1 attribute/dual class system which made the game tons of fun.
  6. PvP maps are too similar. Where is random arena from Guild Wars 1? 5v5 death match? 3 team KoTH Hall of Heroes? Where are the epic announcements that XY won in Hall of Heroes? PvP diversity is horribly luckluster.

We have to go back...

  jpnz

Elite Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3563

11/21/12 5:23:48 AM#230

Does anyone see more than 5 players in any zone that isn't Orr or the starting areas?

Leveling my guardian up and she hit 45today.

15-45 was just dead zone after dead zone after dead zone.

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Naral

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 751

11/21/12 6:14:23 AM#231
Originally posted by jpnz

Does anyone see more than 5 players in any zone that isn't Orr or the starting areas?

Leveling my guardian up and she hit 45today.

15-45 was just dead zone after dead zone after dead zone.

Even worse, I have been in 45-70 zones the past week and a half (dont get to play too much) and  I can count the number of players I have seen in that entire time in those zones on my fingers, and I am on a "full" server, which by my estimation must be measured by how many people are in Lion's Arch and Orr, because there has been loads of room in every other zone.

  User Deleted
11/21/12 8:37:06 AM#232

There is no doubt that ANET took a long look at what the major complaints were about themeparks and why games like WoW were losing Subs. But I also think that many players left WoW for reasons other than what they said. It's tough to explain, but players lost a "feeling" they got when they played WoW. And then to try to put that into words and explain why. So much was lost in that translation. So when ANET decided to design a game around it, they heard the words, but missed the "feeling".

 

I think they tried too hard to be too radically different all at once and as a result introduced to many new and untested mechanics. These mechanics had too many unforseen and undesireable dynamics. Mechanics such as allowing to post items to the TP from anywhere. In retrospect, it's probably not one of the better mechanics in terms of helping the game's economy....if it ever really had one. 

 

I think the biggest area ANET "missed the boat" was trying to make the grind "fun" people who have been around MMOs since long before 2008 remember what grinding was. Yeah, we hated it, but it was (still is) a necessary evil. Too many games have been removing it. But instead, they need to embrace it. It is necessary afterall. And instead, make it more meaningful. Anyway. To try to make repetition fun in a video game? Not gonna happen. You can make the activities more fun than they were previously, but all that does is make it more enjoyable for a finite number of times before it gets boring. It just takes a tad longer to get boring, but still not long at all.

 

We played MMOs, not for "fun" but to achieve goals. They have always been goal oriented. The process of achieving those goals was not aways fun. It was never meant to be. But, it was in achieveing those goals, that were were able to create our own periods of "fun".

This X100....and Im not surprised it such a great explanation seeing as it's the great and wise Geezer!

  User Deleted
11/21/12 8:38:16 AM#233
I also believed they tried too hard to remove grind.  This created a crater-sized hole in the game that was impossible to fill again.  Which is why everytime I play, the game feels extremely "hollow".
  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 2168

11/21/12 9:10:56 AM#234
Originally posted by jpnz

Does anyone see more than 5 players in any zone that isn't Orr or the starting areas?

Leveling my guardian up and she hit 45today.

15-45 was just dead zone after dead zone after dead zone.

Actually, not really.  It really depends on the time of day I log in, but I rarely see more than that in any zone past the inital area (56 on my elementalist).

Lack of population for any MMO is what kills it.  Since I have been feeling like I am the sole playing character most of the time, I have actually decided to take a break from the game.  It was fun at the beginning, but I play these games for the journey of leveling up with others.  If there is no one around, I'd rather play something else.

GW2's greatest feature was that it had a decent population for all zones at one time.  Now that that is gone, I don't really enjoy the game enough to play it.

Edit:

In the end. I enjoyed this game.  For me, keeping all my expectations in check and doing very little research about the game allowed me to enjoy it for what it was.  As soon as I stopped shoeboxing it into the MMORPG category, and thought of it more like an action game, I really found myself able to let go and have a good romp.

Like any game, it has its downs, it has its ups.  In the end, no videogame has ever set me back financially, so sub costs weren't really an issue either way.  What mattered was that I had fun.  For that, I am thankful for my experience in the game.

ANET -

Some called me a hater and some still do, but I do want to thank you for this game.  Your efforts and time spent were much appreciated.

 

"I'm sorry, if you were right, I'd agree with you." - Robin Williams

  mayito7777

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/08/09
Posts: 327

11/21/12 10:40:54 AM#235
Yesterday I was in Frostgorge and when doing the area underground I saw only 2 players beside me there and on the outside. It is becoming harder to do any event now in any area that is not Orr, LA or Lost shores.
  Honkie

Novice Member

Joined: 4/20/05
Posts: 152

Common sense ain't that common anymore.

11/21/12 11:59:38 AM#236

I'm already done with it.  I haven't logged in even once since the patch went live.  Just logging in and playing is providing population for the game, and helping them keep the lights on.  The fewer people who log in, the fewer people there are to play with the people who stayed, which will help kill the game as well.

I won't support a developer who blatantly lies to the playerbase like that.  The level of bait and switch is astounding, after YEARS of saying one thing they change it like it's no big deal when it was actually the key issue that appealed to a great many people, myself included.  Then they won't even face the heat, they just release a half ass reply that pretty much just says "this is how it is now, deal with it" and lock an 11,000 post thread.

Anet is never getting another cent from me, and I'll do my best to talk my friends out of playing any game with their name on it in the future.  I've encouraged my friends to return to their previous games with some success, and I'll keep leaning on the people I know who are still playing to walk away from it.

I played GW1 and bought every xpac.

I preordered GW2 deluxe.

Bought and used gems, mostly for extra bank space, but for a few other little things as well.

Done with anything and everything Anet permenantly, unless they remove ascended gear from the game/reduce the stats to Exotic level/something like that.  I think we all know that's not going to happen.

  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2986

I actually still like MMORPGs

11/21/12 12:53:07 PM#237
Why don't you just you know... Not grind the gear. If everyone was so against it, it could be nullified that way.

Personally I never grind for anything that isn't fun in an mmo. If that means I'm slighty less powerful, oh well.

  Xsonic

Novice Member

Joined: 11/07/04
Posts: 94

A mind without purpose will wander in dark places.

11/21/12 12:54:57 PM#238
I have 3 friends playing it. Even though I personally didn't buy the gae because I am busy playing another mmo, it looked fun to me. : / I guess I am lucky not to buy it; I will just ask my friend to let me create a character in his account and log in casually.
  Dreamo84

Defender of Worlds

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 2986

I actually still like MMORPGs

11/21/12 12:56:05 PM#239
Also, if its that easy to walk away from a game over a set of gear then obviously the game was not right for you anyways. I say leave the politics out of the game, just play and have fun. Damn!

  LizardEgypt

Novice Member

Joined: 2/25/09
Posts: 359

Hmm ?

11/21/12 12:56:09 PM#240
Well now that the over-hyped flavor of the month has reared it's ugly truths, what game will become top dog now?

Currently playing - FF14ARR
Previous games - SWG, World of Warcraft, ShadowBane, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall, Planetside Asheron's Call, Everquest, Everquest 2, Too many.

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