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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Has the mass exodus begun for GW2?

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341 posts found
  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2564

11/20/12 11:40:03 AM#201
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Planetside2 does "WvW" better than gw2

Why?
1 more of it
2 real rivalry, you see player names, there are 3 different factions, you're not facing random red dude from that server you want play again for months.
3 you're not forced to pve so you can pay for your pvp.
4 truly persistent

Lol at "its a console game" comments.

It is an FPS style game - you forgot and that is what many console games are.

 

if you like it great. But, let us give it a a week or 2 and I bet the hangman's noose will be out for this game too. It is all the new rage!!!

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/20/12 11:40:47 AM#202
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Planetside2 does "WvW" better than gw2

Why?
1 more of it
2 real rivalry, you see player names, there are 3 different factions, you're not facing random red dude from that server you want play again for months.
3 you're not forced to pve so you can pay for your pvp.
4 truly persistent

Lol at "its a console game" comments.
  1. It's actually all of it. That's basically all you do in PS2
  2. I agree, I would like to see names in GW2. I don't like the 3 faction approach only though, there will be a lot of imbalance. With 3 servers rotating you get matchmaking to kick in.
  3. You're not forced to pve in GW2 either, but its nice that at least the option is there.
  4. Hmm..isn't there some sort of timer/wipe that happens?


  greenreen

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/12
Posts: 1512

11/20/12 11:43:22 AM#203

Sorry about the previous post.

It broke the formatting and won't show me edit buttons. Let me try to make it better so they can remove the other one.

Original Post:

If there is no problem.

Why are people waiting in queues for around an hour to do the dungeon when a day ago they were waiting minutes.

Could it be that the "event" population left? Perhaps. Could it be that people are starting to move on? Perhaps.

You want some metrics, watch this site over time and see what you discover. I too like evidence over claims and maybe this can give you some data that can be surveyed.

 

http://www.gw2lfg.com/

 

Scui     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG FoM-12     less than a minute     
Quarmiel     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     Necromancer 80lvl; Fractals lvl2     1 minute     
Aurinaa     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     lvl 8 Fotm (Lvl 80 Gurdian lf)     1 minute     
Ruka Kun Sini     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     Thief lfg lvl 7     3 minutes     
Katia Goldfang     Ascalonian Catacombs (Explorable)     Europe     lf1m ac exp p1+2     3 minutes     
Ghetto Zhao     The Ruined City of Arah (Story)     North America     3 more for Arah SM     3 minutes     
lytex     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     LFM level 13     4 minutes     
Frozenpig     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LF 1 M 14 level . no afk/dc     6 minutes     
Lisa Grace Lovelace     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     lfg fractals lvl 8     7 minutes     
Karen     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     lfm lvl 13     7 minutes     
the tallest     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     lf2m Level 4, still waiting!     7 minutes     
Miserere     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     lfm level 12     10 minutes     
Nefferpie     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG lvl9 (and above if grp stays together)     11 minutes     
Stefan Dovahkiin     Crucible of Eternity (Explorable)     North America     path 2     11 minutes     
Light of Dusk     Fractals of the Mists     North America     2 more for Level 15     11 minutes     
Solcaust Firesoul     Twilight Arbor (Explorable)     North America     forward - forward or storymode     11 minutes     
Varientex     Crucible of Eternity (Explorable)     North America     P2,3     13 minutes     
Denunciation     Fractals of the Mists     North America     GLF2M FotM Level 5!     14 minutes     
Releaser Of Fenrir     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG for Frac 8 and will continue on to others.     16 minutes     
Breschneck     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     lfg fractals 7     17 minutes     
Hoooks     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LF2M FotM Lv3     17 minutes     
F I R E F L Y     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG level 15     18 minutes     
Touc     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG Fractals - lvl 14     21 minutes     
ding.2710     Fractals of the Mists     North America     lf1m frac lvl 17     21 minutes     
Havergon     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     glf 2 more fractal lvl 6     22 minutes     
karz the astronaut     Fractals of the Mists     North America     >> LF1M Lvl 17 <<     22 minutes     
Eva Marie     Fractals of the Mists     North America     Need 2 more, Level 7!     24 minutes     
Barbot Villeneuve     The Ruined City of Arah (Explorable)     North America     LFG path 1,2,4     27 minutes     
Roy Mercer     Fractals of the Mists     North America     Need more lvl 7     28 minutes     
Miss Big Face Kitty     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     lfg fractals lvl 6     31 minutes     
R Le Beau     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG FotM 12     33 minutes     
Vidro Moyou     Fractals of the Mists     North America     Need one for Level 4.     35 minutes     
Gogishield     The Ruined City of Arah (Explorable)     North America     wanna go arah exp p3     37 minutes     
Nihala     Ascalonian Catacombs (Story)     Europe     Need 3 members to join me and a friend.     38 minutes     
Lynda Scarletwolf     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     Level 4     42 minutes     
Poker C     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     Fractals Level ( 12 ) Last member     44 minutes     
Florgus Windshroud     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG Fractals 11     44 minutes     
Farer     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG FotM lvl 12     44 minutes     
Astis Frostbane     Ascalonian Catacombs (Explorable)     North America     Guardian LFG     about 1 hour     
Renegade Protection     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     80 guard lfg dif 12 (10res) fotm     about 1 hour     
breeze.8752     Fractals of the Mists     North America     lfg fractals lvl 2     about 1 hour     
Dyluth Malae     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFM FOTM Lvl 4     about 1 hour     
Sergav     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     Diff 9 !!! EUROPE !!!     about 1 hour     
Myrah Ferelli     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LFG 13 Elementalist, able to ts/vent/mumble if needed     about 1 hour     
ariel siv     Fractals of the Mists     North America     LF2M Frac 4     about 1 hour     
joshuaastray     Fractals of the Mists     North America     Glf1m lvl 14     about 1 hour     
Tyriana.5136     Fractals of the Mists     Europe     lfg lvl 6     about 1 hour     
Protes southborn     Fractals of the Mists     North America     lf1m fotm9     about 1 hour     
 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/20/12 11:44:48 AM#204
You are kuppa

WvW costs too much gold, you're forced into doing pve or using the cash shop to pay for it. You cant earn the gold to cover repairs and seige equipment through WvW alone.

Also its inadvisable to enter WvW until you have your elite slot, yeah you're not technically forced but you are cannon fodder unless you level in pve to 30 or so first.
  cgnius

Novice Member

Joined: 7/03/12
Posts: 18

11/20/12 11:45:11 AM#205

If you believe the Forums then Yes. However, I used to be able to get into Lion's Arch on my Server without being transferred to an overflow. Now every time I go there I'm in an overflow

I'm not giving a conclusion one way or the other as my Server may not be an accurate representation.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/20/12 11:46:26 AM#206
Kuppa also no its not on a weekly timer like gw2.
  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/20/12 11:48:07 AM#207
Originally posted by ShakyMo
You are kuppa

WvW costs too much gold, you're forced into doing pve or using the cash shop to pay for it. You cant earn the gold to cover repairs and seige equipment through WvW alone.

Also its inadvisable to enter WvW until you have your elite slot, yeah you're not technically forced but you are cannon fodder unless you level in pve to 30 or so first.

I don't see why you can't. There is actual pve in wvw that can nab you a ton of gold. I wasn't counting that as regular pve because its part of wvw.

I also don't think thats right. WvW is very crowded, you just have to make sure you play it safe until higher levels. Besides you level up pretty fast in WvW. I've actually got one character were I do mostly wvw on and I've been there at level 10, didn't die much either.


  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/20/12 11:48:42 AM#208
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Kuppa also no its not on a weekly timer like gw2.

Is it on a timer though?? I thought it was on some sort of timer at one point.


  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2564

11/20/12 11:50:36 AM#209
Originally posted by cgnius

If you believe the Forums then Yes. However, I used to be able to get into Lion's Arch on my Server without being transferred to an overflow. Now every time I go there I'm in an overflow

I'm not giving a conclusion one way or the other as my Server may not be an accurate representation.

As others have said, people who are happy with the game, don't usually post unless there is a technical problem, etc. People who don't like the game or just dislike it (I will not use the word hate any more) will post because they feel they need to be heard. That is fine but, don't take those posts as the majority of players or anything else. They are the people who want to complain.

 

Complain away, but pleae be educated about the complaints.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

11/20/12 11:52:42 AM#210
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by BadSpock

This is THE major problem with most if not all themepark games, and even many "sandboxes" (and yes I use the quotes specifically).

Due to the RPG nature of the MMORPG, outleveling/out-skilling/out-usefullness of content is a given.

Only in a true MMO that makes the RPG part actually mean "Role Playing Game" rather than "stat pRogression Pseuo-Game" will you see a game in which all areas of the game are relevant to all players.

The down-leveling of toons in GW2 would be wonderful.. if there were anything to do in lower level zones/areas after you 100% them.

Don't need lower level crafting mats - don't need lower level mob resources (drops) - don't need lower level DE chains - etc. etc.

In that Case, BS, there ARE no true MMORPG's out there any more besides EVE (based on what you posted). That is fine by me. I played EVE for a bit and found it boring and unforgiving (I mean to noob players). A little give should be there to help the players get through at the beginning.

EvE does a lot right of what SHOULD make a MMORPG - but the game is not without it's fair share of problems (of which I could go on and on about them) which is why I think you see a lot of success and loyalty from EvE players and why so many are curious about EvE but in the end don't stick with it (like me.)

As it relates to GW2 though, they get a lot of things right in what makes a good themepark MMO but on a basic design level they also made some pretty glaring mistakes - mistakes I don't think they forsaw as I know I sure didn't until they were in my face.

I actually think GW1 was a better designed game for what it was trying to be.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 6104

11/20/12 12:00:06 PM#211

I would agree GW1 has a better design for what it is, but the comparison between instanced lobby style and persistent world isn't fair because the latter introduces so many more hurdles and a level of complexity that the lobby style doesn't have to deal with.

The main criticism I have for GW2, and this is true for most games, is that it is systems light.  The only two systems GW2 has are its sPvP and crafting - those are actual systems.  Everything else is content churn.

I would go out on a limb and say that most game suffer from this.  Trion has tried to introduce a freeform housing system in the form of Dimensions that is very rough and unpolished, but is the right direction to go in my opinion.  Not so much housing itself (although I like that) but the idea of adding systems to their game in a way that allow players to create their own environment and world.  I think Trion's system is still too on rails and disconnected from the rest of the game to be anything but a sideshow at this point, but at least they have made the attempt.

Hopefully dev studios will start adding integrated systems into their games because this is what will keep players busy and can add a dynamic to the world that developers can't create by themselves.

Curse you AquaScum!

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 5213

11/20/12 12:11:49 PM#212
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by BadSpock

This is THE major problem with most if not all themepark games, and even many "sandboxes" (and yes I use the quotes specifically).

Due to the RPG nature of the MMORPG, outleveling/out-skilling/out-usefullness of content is a given.

Only in a true MMO that makes the RPG part actually mean "Role Playing Game" rather than "stat pRogression Pseuo-Game" will you see a game in which all areas of the game are relevant to all players.

The down-leveling of toons in GW2 would be wonderful.. if there were anything to do in lower level zones/areas after you 100% them.

Don't need lower level crafting mats - don't need lower level mob resources (drops) - don't need lower level DE chains - etc. etc.

In that Case, BS, there ARE no true MMORPG's out there any more besides EVE (based on what you posted). That is fine by me. I played EVE for a bit and found it boring and unforgiving (I mean to noob players). A little give should be there to help the players get through at the beginning.

EvE does a lot right of what SHOULD make a MMORPG - but the game is not without it's fair share of problems (of which I could go on and on about them) which is why I think you see a lot of success and loyalty from EvE players and why so many are curious about EvE but in the end don't stick with it (like me.)

As it relates to GW2 though, they get a lot of things right in what makes a good themepark MMO but on a basic design level they also made some pretty glaring mistakes - mistakes I don't think they forsaw as I know I sure didn't until they were in my face.

I actually think GW1 was a better designed game for what it was trying to be.

THIS.

There is no doubt that ANET took a long look at what the major complaints were about themeparks and why games like WoW were losing Subs. But I also think that many players left WoW for reasons other than what they said. It's tough to explain, but players lost a "feeling" they got when they played WoW. And then to try to put that into words and explain why. So much was lost in that translation. So when ANET decided to design a game around it, they heard the words, but missed the "feeling".

 

I think they tried too hard to be too radically different all at once and as a result introduced to many new and untested mechanics. These mechanics had too many unforseen and undesireable dynamics. Mechanics such as allowing to post items to the TP from anywhere. In retrospect, it's probably not one of the better mechanics in terms of helping the game's economy....if it ever really had one. 

 

I think the biggest area ANET "missed the boat" was trying to make the grind "fun" people who have been around MMOs since long before 2008 remember what grinding was. Yeah, we hated it, but it was (still is) a necessary evil. Too many games have been removing it. But instead, they need to embrace it. It is necessary afterall. And instead, make it more meaningful. Anyway. To try to make repetition fun in a video game? Not gonna happen. You can make the activities more fun than they were previously, but all that does is make it more enjoyable for a finite number of times before it gets boring. It just takes a tad longer to get boring, but still not long at all.

 

We played MMOs, not for "fun" but to achieve goals. They have always been goal oriented. The process of achieving those goals was not aways fun. It was never meant to be. But, it was in achieveing those goals, that were were able to create our own periods of "fun".

It's the sad state of the genre. The next big title has as many threads discussing issues with it's business model than issues with the game itself.

  User Deleted
11/20/12 12:14:54 PM#213
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by cgnius

If you believe the Forums then Yes. However, I used to be able to get into Lion's Arch on my Server without being transferred to an overflow. Now every time I go there I'm in an overflow

I'm not giving a conclusion one way or the other as my Server may not be an accurate representation.

As others have said, people who are happy with the game, don't usually post unless there is a technical problem, etc. People who don't like the game or just dislike it (I will not use the word hate any more) will post because they feel they need to be heard. That is fine but, don't take those posts as the majority of players or anything else. They are the people who want to complain.

 

Complain away, but pleae be educated about the complaints.

Dear sir thank you.   today is the day I have been on these forums (not registered) since 2004 made an account over a year ago, but today is the day I will be leaving and also you are correct in that post. Happy holidays, see you guys in game.

 

Add me in-game we will have some fun.

 

 

Silk.8302 or Sammy Eli

  Naral

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/07/10
Posts: 754

11/20/12 12:37:21 PM#214
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aeolron
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aeolron
Originally posted by Kuppa

Two people from my guild haven't logged on in a while, so ya the whole world has given up and mass exodus has begun.......

btw I saw two dead cockroaches the other day so they are definately going extinct.

If you saw two dead cockroaches the other day I would say call the exterminator and clean up after yourself LOL.

Two people in YOUR guild that doesn't play doesn't mean you have the ONLY Guild in GW2, apart that alot of people are no longer playing , and acounting from tons and tons of guilds , even on this site, that members are saying that hardly anyone is on anymore does kinda push the " Exodus" theory to liable, while thats good that there's only two people in your entire guild that no longer plays means that some people will find even the most boring games fun ! Just joking!

So you are saying that my two people account does not prove a mass exodus but your "tons and tons" and "alot" account does push the "mass exodus" theory to liable?? right....

These are views of former players and if you can't take that then why post? Hell if the theory of a max exodus does not exists , why are you here posting instead of playing?

Maybe you need to get off of your high horse and except that many people don't have your similar views , or mine for that matter.

Almost all the GW2 posts here, you have made it clear that you are a steadfast defender of the game ( which is a nicer way of saying " Fanboi"), while I applaud you , alot of people think other wise, no need to bash people based on their views, this is what they are seeing and I agree with them, and the reason behind the " Exodus" ? Because it's the same old same old tried and true mmorpg formula that was just copy and pasted so many times, does it make the game bad? No , but it lacks staying power, and with the dynamic events, hell Rift does a better job. Yet again, these are MY opinions and views, but if you feel the further need to bash or mock me again, go right ahead, because I'll just shoot back again with " My views , my opinions ".

Im not saying the game might not be going through "mass exodus", what Im saying is that people should have more concrete facts/evidence instead of "all my friends stopped playing" and "Ive seen a lot of people say they quit". It reminds me of news media, they sensationalize everything with no substance to back it up.

What is it you need to see? What other method does a player require than to log in and see no one on his friends and guild lists to determine that no one he knows plays anymore? What more "substance" does one require than to log in and find oneself alone?

I would agree. If the fact that literally EVERYONE I know (to the tune of about 50 to 60 players) has quit, except for me and my wife, what *am* I supposed to use as an indicator? Not that it matters.  Whether there is a mass exodus or not, *I* am experiencing a mass exodus on a personal level.

  BadSpock

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/21/04
Posts: 7769

Logic be damned!

11/20/12 1:01:30 PM#215
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I would agree GW1 has a better design for what it is, but the comparison between instanced lobby style and persistent world isn't fair because the latter introduces so many more hurdles and a level of complexity that the lobby style doesn't have to deal with.

Well I think Anet tried to bring some stuff over from GW1 that worked in a lobby style game that wouldn't and obviously doesn't work in a persistent world style game ala GW2.

If you are doing a lobby style game, you have to have challenge, dynamic interaction (combat), and measurebale gains (progression.)

It doesn't matter if you have to replay the same mission or area dozens of times if that area presents a challenge that must be overcome, if you are required to play competently with precision, and you have measurable gains.

That's pretty much the bread and butter of the "themepark" success of games like WoW, which is in itself simply an extension of the Diablo addicitive design philosophy that has been/is still proven to work and be popular.

Hell even FPS games like the Halo series and CoD have done incredibly well following those three basic tennants.

What happened with GW2 is that Anet is asking players to repeat the same missions or areas dozens of times but

-the challenge is artificial, like games of old like Contra etc. it's not really hard per say it's just unforgiving - which leads to frustration more than anything.

-there really is no precisioin or required competence in the game play because all of the professions are homogonized into bland replicas of fully formed roles in other games (including their own freshman effort) and as such the "skill" required is summarized into whack-a-mole which even children only find fun at the county fair for a few minutes.

-and the rewards are completely undesirable by the masses i.e. no progression.

If you want to put a game into a persistent world, you have to reject the tennants of the lobby game almost entirely - you can't water them down and spread them out and try to hide them.

WoW works and still works because the level up process is really just an extended tutorial. PvP offers challenge, hard-modes and heroics/challenge-mode dungeons/raids offer challenge. The combat is dynamic in the sense that it is reactive and each player has a defined role that is very well structured and the interactions between players within these roles hasn't been done better in any themepark than it is in WoW. Obviously the reward/progression treadmill is there.

But in a persistent world, in order to "do it right" you have to do things completely differently.

Now Playing: Destiny, WoW

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

11/20/12 1:13:54 PM#216
No planetside isn't on Any timers,you own a base until one of the other sides take it off you. There's no "oh god I put all that effort in and they swapped the servers around an hour later"

Planetside works pretty much like daoc.
  MurlockDance

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/20/10
Posts: 1225

11/20/12 1:26:50 PM#217
I am not leaving the game for good since it is non-sub based, but I certainly won't be playing it that often. I am also unlikely to buy any expacs or gems, unless ANet turns around. The Ascended gear is a major turnoff to me.

Playing MUDs and MMOs since 1994.

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3101

I am more than some of my parts

11/20/12 1:32:50 PM#218
Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by Torvaldr

I would agree GW1 has a better design for what it is, but the comparison between instanced lobby style and persistent world isn't fair because the latter introduces so many more hurdles and a level of complexity that the lobby style doesn't have to deal with.

Well I think Anet tried to bring some stuff over from GW1 that worked in a lobby style game that wouldn't and obviously doesn't work in a persistent world style game ala GW2.

If you are doing a lobby style game, you have to have challenge, dynamic interaction (combat), and measurebale gains (progression.)

It doesn't matter if you have to replay the same mission or area dozens of times if that area presents a challenge that must be overcome, if you are required to play competently with precision, and you have measurable gains.

That's pretty much the bread and butter of the "themepark" success of games like WoW, which is in itself simply an extension of the Diablo addicitive design philosophy that has been/is still proven to work and be popular.

Hell even FPS games like the Halo series and CoD have done incredibly well following those three basic tennants.

What happened with GW2 is that Anet is asking players to repeat the same missions or areas dozens of times but

-the challenge is artificial, like games of old like Contra etc. it's not really hard per say it's just unforgiving - which leads to frustration more than anything.

-there really is no precisioin or required competence in the game play because all of the professions are homogonized into bland replicas of fully formed roles in other games (including their own freshman effort) and as such the "skill" required is summarized into whack-a-mole which even children only find fun at the county fair for a few minutes.

-and the rewards are completely undesirable by the masses i.e. no progression.

If you want to put a game into a persistent world, you have to reject the tennants of the lobby game almost entirely - you can't water them down and spread them out and try to hide them.

WoW works and still works because the level up process is really just an extended tutorial. PvP offers challenge, hard-modes and heroics/challenge-mode dungeons/raids offer challenge. The combat is dynamic in the sense that it is reactive and each player has a defined role that is very well structured and the interactions between players within these roles hasn't been done better in any themepark than it is in WoW. Obviously the reward/progression treadmill is there.

But in a persistent world, in order to "do it right" you have to do things completely differently.

So rather than putting things in the context with you being the self proclaimed speaker for the masses, why don't you rewrite the statement saying how this applies to you.  Just because YOU need such substantial rewards does not mean I want the same thing. 

Here is an example;  I find people that are self-righteously proclaiming to know the desires of the masses, tend to be blinded by their own ego.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/20/12 1:46:37 PM#219
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by BadSpock

-and the rewards are completely undesirable by the masses i.e. no progression.

If you want to put a game into a persistent world, you have to reject the tennants of the lobby game almost entirely - you can't water them down and spread them out and try to hide them.

WoW works and still works because the level up process is really just an extended tutorial. PvP offers challenge, hard-modes and heroics/challenge-mode dungeons/raids offer challenge. The combat is dynamic in the sense that it is reactive and each player has a defined role that is very well structured and the interactions between players within these roles hasn't been done better in any themepark than it is in WoW. Obviously the reward/progression treadmill is there.

But in a persistent world, in order to "do it right" you have to do things completely differently.

So rather than putting things in the context with you being the self proclaimed speaker for the masses, why don't you rewrite the statement saying how this applies to you.  Just because YOU need such substantial rewards does not mean I want the same thing. 

Here is an example;  I find people that are self-righteously proclaiming to know the desires of the masses, tend to be blinded by their own ego.

 

Game makers need to consider what lots of players will enjoy.  Maybe not "the masses" but a good enough percentage to cover their game financially, at least.  I don't know about BadSpock, but when I talk about the popularity of their design decisions, I'm trying to look at it from their perspective, and open that up for discussion.  Not just focus exclusively on what I personally enjoy.

 

What kind of discussion could we even have, just saying "I like this" and "Well, I don't" - there's nothing there to even discuss, really.

 

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2564

11/20/12 1:54:32 PM#220
Originally posted by Vhaln
Originally posted by eyelolled
Originally posted by BadSpock

-and the rewards are completely undesirable by the masses i.e. no progression.

If you want to put a game into a persistent world, you have to reject the tennants of the lobby game almost entirely - you can't water them down and spread them out and try to hide them.

WoW works and still works because the level up process is really just an extended tutorial. PvP offers challenge, hard-modes and heroics/challenge-mode dungeons/raids offer challenge. The combat is dynamic in the sense that it is reactive and each player has a defined role that is very well structured and the interactions between players within these roles hasn't been done better in any themepark than it is in WoW. Obviously the reward/progression treadmill is there.

But in a persistent world, in order to "do it right" you have to do things completely differently.

So rather than putting things in the context with you being the self proclaimed speaker for the masses, why don't you rewrite the statement saying how this applies to you.  Just because YOU need such substantial rewards does not mean I want the same thing. 

Here is an example;  I find people that are self-righteously proclaiming to know the desires of the masses, tend to be blinded by their own ego.

 

Game makers need to consider what lots of players will enjoy.  Maybe not "the masses" but a good enough percentage to cover their game financially, at least.  I don't know about BadSpock, but when I talk about the popularity of their design decisions, I'm trying to look at it from their perspective, and open that up for discussion.  Not just focus exclusively on what I personally enjoy.

 

What kind of discussion could we even have, just saying "I like this" and "Well, I don't" - there's nothing there to even discuss, really.

 

Thanks for the above. I do agree with you. It seems people are polarized in politics, religion, etc. and why not games too. There is no longer any civil discourse about anything.  It all comes down to name calling and attitude.

 

BadSpock has been very candid and I for one appreciate his thoughtful discourse. I am sorry to see him go but I appreciate the thoughtful remarks and discussion that came from it.

 

All games have a basic design and with the design comes specific desicions and compromises to make a game work. All games are like that. SWTOR put much of there money into voices, etc. Some put money into graphics engines (TERA with the Unreal 3 engine). All are compromises - we just have to pick what we like and go with it.

 

God bless all.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

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