You made me choose between griefer's and carebears....  So I chose Exploiter. 

You forgot: Failed Economics majors who want to draw everything into a graph.

That is the beauty of a sandbox. Every single option is a valid playstyle. You AREN'T expected to play in a specific path or style in a sandbox. A player killer, griefer, thief or passifist are all valid play styles in a true and great game. It only means the sandbox was successful in capturing real world concepts.

The only option for me would be those who complain about play style outside of the game (ie. forums) and then take the argument into the game. If you bitch endlessly about how others play in a balanced sandbox you may as well consider playing another game. Sadly true exploits exist but very often it is little more about personal complaints than legitimate game concerns. If so those can be discussed calmly and constructively.

I've met both crazy and unballanced players in mmos who both act like arses through character and through out of character chat or voice. I have no patience for those players. I have also met players who griefed the hell out of me (ei. player killed me when I was far weaker than them) and later discovered them to be actually quite normal and friendly people outside of the game. I truly do not mind those players if they prove to me they are mature enough to leave playstyle strickly within the game.

One example of this was in Wow where I had a Shaman as my first character upon release. I rarely level fast so I ran into a NE hunter with the white tiger pet (every damn hunter had back then) several levels above me (yet still prior to cap ... I hit cap in a month but others did it under 2 weeks) who I got into a rivalry with. Granted I was wasted many times being 10 levels below her but as I closed in level we has some amazing battles chasing each other around open world through multiple zones at times. Later I entered the same guild as this player and it turns out he was a decent and fun individual who just so happened to be a cut throat pvp'r. Perfectly fine with me but if an asshat outside the game too I would have had a very negative view of the player.

Player need to understand the need to check their ego at the door before playing with other folks.

The exploiter. The rest are often just playing the game as intended.

Originally posted by Rusque
I vote for griefers. They are the reason why sandbox pvp oriented games stay niche and never take off. The griefers piss people off, even those who enjoy pvp don't enjoy being endlessly griefed. So they learn to stay away and eventually just prefer the safety of themeparks.

That is more to do with too much freedom and too little consequences. A sandbox game can never truly be a sandbox in reality. Perhaps perma-death and real world, harse penalities could be enforced but few would play that sort of game. For each and every convenience added to the game (and resurrection is simply that) there has be a restriction placed. Few understand this.

Griefers want total freedom yet also want little consequence. In real life in a real society (which these games are trying to create) you can be killed, injured, fined, have property taken away or locked away for breaking laws. Griefers simply cannot handle these restrictions which would be a balanced response to their transgressions anywhere in a real society out side of the game. In game they would simply respond by quitting. Social institutions are sustained systems once a society is establised and function as some point effectively autonomously so therefore they should also be even within a sandbox once extablished. This means for every freedom allowed there will ultimately be a system of enforcement that is player influenced but more or less automated. There of course also needs to be far more benefits to play the game in other ways but not the only option (I love games that allow crime as a valid game play option).

If you murder someone and are caught you have zero influence on what will happen to you in a civilized society. You knew the risk before doing it. A sandbox also have to have such penalties to preserve to grief in the first place. It is the lack of reward for making social groups within the game that upsets people. The sandbox should allow a player an option to grief but now allow a griefer to play the game for long.

Originally posted by Tamanous

That is the beauty of a sandbox. Every single option is a valid playstyle. You AREN'T expected to play in a specific path or style in a sandbox. A player killer, griefer, thief or passifist are all valid play styles in a true and great game. It only means the sandbox was successful in capturing real world concepts.

Well not every.   Exploiter as in exploiting game not players is not valid playstyle.   Botther in most is not also. (with few sandboxesexceptions). 

Griefer is depending on game rules.  Even though it is sandbox it still have rules.  So some types of griefing are usually allowed and some other do not.

Still I agree that much more playstyles are valid. Even some of those that are bugging others.

The only players who bothered me in SWG back in the day were the beggars in cities.  These tools were standing 20 feet from a mission terminal, yet they would beg for money.  

I gave money and items to many new players who came into the game and wanted me to take them on their first adventures, just as someone did for me on my first days in the game.  They didn't ask for it, but I gave it to them anyway.

Also, it would be another thing if someone was roleplaying a beggar and made an interesting character out of it, but the people I'm talking about were just lazy.  

No doubt future themepark players...  hhahah!

I voted for the whiner. The type of player in a sandbox game who just can't adapt to not having his hand held going from point A to point B. And who asks in confusion "what am I supposed to do?". When he has a whole world of options right before him.

"Yes, but what is best? How do I win?"

It's a game dude, not a virtual movie. The decisions are yours to make. That's the whole point. And how about asking yourself what activity you might find fun, rather than worrying about entering some pointless online pissing contest. Because when you have fun, that IS winning!

But they just can't understand.

There were only two actual choices in this poll. 

Choice 1)Those who  play the game legitly.  

Choice 2) Those who use cheats/exploits.

Griefer definetly. They're the reason we can't have nice things (more mainstream sandbox MMOs).

Sadly because of internet anonimity and the ability to control and create multiple characters and accounts sandbox MMOs suffer in genral from a complete lack of accountability and it being far easier to destroy than to build.

In fact PvP isn't really necessarily a sandbox element at all. Character progression and affecting other characters is a common element to all MMOs and the fact that one game has harsher death penalties and another lesser ones doesn't make one sandbox and the other thempark.

What a sandbox means is a game where the player can change the world in a persistent way. The main point of real world sandboxes is building sandcastles not kicking other kids in the face.

Can I vote for an addition to that one? My biggest beef are the people who step into a sandbox and start comparing it to WoW.

Any other themepark game, yeah it's still anoying but yeah they're comparing apples with apples. But seriously, in a Sandbox?

Does anyone else feel this or is it just me?

Originally posted by hcosmin

What a sandbox means is a game where the player can change the world in a persistent way. The main point of real world sandboxes is building sandcastles not kicking other kids in the face.

 

But you have to admit that sometimes hitting the really annoying kid over the head with the shovel IS pretty fun. Just saying.

those running around all day like "BAM! i play sandbox! WATCH ME! HEEEERE! SANDBOX PLAYER! MEEEE!"

so, elitists i guess :P

Originally posted by Thane

those running around all day like "BAM! i play sandbox! WATCH ME! HEEEERE! SANDBOX PLAYER! MEEEE!"

Proselytizers seems to be a popular "other" choice, op.

The entitled griefer.

The ones that think they are entitled to 100% freedom to ruin someones day while the players that dont want any part of that action are either forced to get protection or be locked up in 5% of the game world like prisoners in a camp.

I've have arguments with these guys for hours that think this is perfectly ok...

They are the kryptonite of the sandbox sub-genre and most don't realize it.

Originally posted by hcosmin

Griefer definetly. They're the reason we can't have nice things (more mainstream sandbox MMOs).

 

Sadly because of internet anonimity and the ability to control and create multiple characters and accounts sandbox MMOs suffer in genral from a complete lack of accountability and it being far easier to destroy than to build.

In fact PvP isn't really necessarily a sandbox element at all. Character progression and affecting other characters is a common element to all MMOs and the fact that one game has harsher death penalties and another lesser ones doesn't make one sandbox and the other thempark.

 

What a sandbox means is a game where the player can change the world in a persistent way. The main point of real world sandboxes is building sandcastles not kicking other kids in the face.

 

This....Although I would put the cheater/hacker/exploiter/bot as a very close 2nd but only because generally games DO deal with this problem.

Griefers destroy the game by simply not being bright enough to understand the results of their actions. They are a cancer that will destroy until the game dies , then complain that there is no one around...

The person who's name is "LOLcano", "Legolazz", or "Gankenstein".

The person who complains that there is toomuch time being sunk into player housing, social tools, and the fact that he or she can't go right to the AH.

Kids...

The PVP sandbox griefer, is most commonly a 13-year-old who got kicked off PSN or Xbox Live for profanity or sexual harrassment, and now decides to spend his time griefing new players, destroying the very own game he loves, on the official forums he doesn't refer to himself as a griefer, he was just being l33t and "pwning noobs", he refers to everyone who isn't up for being harassed by a little kid as a "carebear".

On another note, he can't seem to wrap his head around the fact his game keeps losing players, the idea that his behavior is related to the success of the game he plays hasn't and probably never will, get through to him.