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Elder Scrolls Online

Elder Scrolls Online 

General Discussion  » Longevity. Yes or No

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136 posts found
  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 656

11/16/12 3:27:47 PM#21
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Entinerint

No, it will last a year, tops, as is.

If they unlocked the races from factions and factions from faction lands and added more dynamic RT combat then maybe they'd last longer but right now it is so limiting and doesn't embody the freedom of a TES game so the loyal fans of TES will get turned off after a while and the DAOC audience is not large enough to sustain a modern MMO.

Nah, short of us realizing that until it launches no one can tell, I will say it will last.

It might not last in an incarnation that players desire but like AoC or SWToR or Warhammer, it will find a way to keep going.

You mean limping along without making back its budget and hemorraging money until it destroys the company(s) involved?  Yes agree with you.

Frankly, they are probably much too stubborn and egotistical to ever admit defeat on it, so it will die a slow, laboring death.

Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Entinerint

No, it will last a year, tops, as is.

If they unlocked the races from factions and factions from faction lands and added more dynamic RT combat then maybe they'd last longer but right now it is so limiting and doesn't embody the freedom of a TES game so the loyal fans of TES will get turned off after a while and the DAOC audience is not large enough to sustain a modern MMO.

a few hundred thousand and they could sustain just fine imo.  look at rift and eve. 

Neither of those games had a 300 mil budget or a 250 person staff.

Let's quick-math it.  If they sell the game for $60 and have a $15/mo sub fee, for argument's sake, they would need approximately 1.35 million subs sustained for one full year in order to BREAK EVEN on their investment, not to mention ongoing upkeap costs and overhead.  That seems, unrealistic to me.

you realize that the $300 mil isnt going directly into the game.  right?  it was invested into the game studio.  which includes constructing buildings,  including one in ireland.  

LOL they didn't construct a building!  They rented office space!  And even still, ALL that money is riding on ESO to earn it back.  Regardless of what the costs were for, all the money went to Zenimax Online Studios and the only way they are making it back is with their only product, ESO.

  deakon

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

11/16/12 3:36:14 PM#22
Originally posted by Entinerint

LOL they didn't construct a building!  They rented office space!  And even still, ALL that money is riding on ESO to earn it back.  Regardless of what the costs were for, all the money went to Zenimax Online Studios and the only way they are making it back is with their only product, ESO.

From what I understand zenimax online (unlike bioware austin) wasnt created to make just one game, the $300,000,000 is an investment into online gaming as a whole not just to make TESO

  Entinerint

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/06/12
Posts: 656

11/16/12 3:41:32 PM#23
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Entinerint

LOL they didn't construct a building!  They rented office space!  And even still, ALL that money is riding on ESO to earn it back.  Regardless of what the costs were for, all the money went to Zenimax Online Studios and the only way they are making it back is with their only product, ESO.

From what I understand zenimax online (unlike bioware austin) wasnt created to make just one game, the $300,000,000 is an investment into online gaming as a whole not just to make TESO

With only that information to go on, we have to assume it is all going into ESO, as anything beyond that would be far too long term for such a large investment.  The investment was made in, supposedly, 2010 and they will likely expect their return from the first product produced within a year of its release.  That's just how investment works.

  muffins89

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1247

11/16/12 3:43:40 PM#24
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Entinerint

 

Nah, short of us realizing that until it launches no one can tell, I will say it will last.

It might not last in an incarnation that players desire but like AoC or SWToR or Warhammer, it will find a way to keep going.

You mean limping along without making back its budget and hemorraging money until it destroys the company(s) involved?  Yes agree with you.

Frankly, they are probably much too stubborn and egotistical to ever admit defeat on it, so it will die a slow, laboring death.

Originally posted by muffins89
Originally posted by Entinerint

No, it will last a year, tops, as is.

If they unlocked the races from factions and factions from faction lands and added more dynamic RT combat then maybe they'd last longer but right now it is so limiting and doesn't embody the freedom of a TES game so the loyal fans of TES will get turned off after a while and the DAOC audience is not large enough to sustain a modern MMO.

a few hundred thousand and they could sustain just fine imo.  look at rift and eve. 

Neither of those games had a 300 mil budget or a 250 person staff.

Let's quick-math it.  If they sell the game for $60 and have a $15/mo sub fee, for argument's sake, they would need approximately 1.35 million subs sustained for one full year in order to BREAK EVEN on their investment, not to mention ongoing upkeap costs and overhead.  That seems, unrealistic to me.

you realize that the $300 mil isnt going directly into the game.  right?  it was invested into the game studio.  which includes constructing buildings,  including one in ireland.  

LOL they didn't construct a building!  They rented office space!  And even still, ALL that money is riding on ESO to earn it back.  Regardless of what the costs were for, all the money went to Zenimax Online Studios and the only way they are making it back is with their only product, ESO.

http://siliconrepublic.newsweaver.ie/ida-ezine/65his7bz2ka12wj3rxioav  they chose ireland because they didnt want to play the whole cost.  the government and tax payers there are contributing to the cost of the "New Facility".  not unlike a company asking a city for taxpayer help when building a stadium, a mall, or anyhting else that can help drive the local economy by creating jobs.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  tank017

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 2206

11/16/12 3:48:02 PM#25
Depends on the person..if they make the pvp meaningful, then that will keep some people around.If you don't mind grinding dungeons over and over then you'll stick around.in my opinion, it'll be like any other theme park...good for a month or 2..then no thanks.
  User Deleted
11/16/12 3:51:22 PM#26

Noyes.

Insufficient data.

Daggerfall,Morrowind or Skyrim online then yes.

WoW / Oblivion online then  no.

 

  deakon

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/07/11
Posts: 588

11/16/12 3:57:55 PM#27
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by deakon
Originally posted by Entinerint

LOL they didn't construct a building!  They rented office space!  And even still, ALL that money is riding on ESO to earn it back.  Regardless of what the costs were for, all the money went to Zenimax Online Studios and the only way they are making it back is with their only product, ESO.

From what I understand zenimax online (unlike bioware austin) wasnt created to make just one game, the $300,000,000 is an investment into online gaming as a whole not just to make TESO

With only that information to go on, we have to assume it is all going into ESO, as anything beyond that would be far too long term for such a large investment.  The investment was made in, supposedly, 2010 and they will likely expect their return from the first product produced within a year of its release.  That's just how investment works.

The investment was made in 07 and wasnt ONLY for TESO

 

"The proceeds of the investment will be used to fund future growth, increase game development and publishing, facilitate acquisitions, and finance massively multiplayer online games (MMOGs). "

 

link

  Razperil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/13/04
Posts: 307

Everything has it's time and its place, know yours?

11/16/12 4:00:19 PM#28
Originally posted by coretex666

Do you think that this game may be successful in its current form which I believe is a pure themepark.

Like they say, it really opens up at level 50, when you can do pvp to keep structures, resources which is kind of meaningless in themepark, isnt it.

Or you can do dungeons with your friends. I have done hundreds if not thousands of dungeons in last 10 years. What will be the point of doing them in TESO? More powerful gear?Cosmetic gear? Will the gameplay be so great that it will make me want to grind even more dungeons? Is this the kind of game the point of playing which is "to have fun" which means that you just enjoy instant action whether it may be meaningless pvp or dungs / quests for gear.

What aspect of this game seems to promis longevity for you? Is it the PvP?

I do not mean to bash the game. In fact, I like some of its aspects (e.g. combat, art style) and I am kind of interested in how it turns out, but I am a little concerned with the endgame in this MMO. At the moment, I do not see the long term motivation to play this game. It just seems to be a little shallow to me.

Maybe it is too early to ask these questions, but do you have any opinion on this?

It's too early to even know, so why bother being worried about it? The game has some geat features. However, reading some of your further posts, you lost my interest in your whole post when you decided to add borecraft. Sad that every game made these days has to have that topic brought up. (I honestly don't care about another ban. Anytime anyone speaks truth about anything on these forums, they are tempt banned.)

 P.S- You and others like you need to stop worrying about "endgame". This is exactly why producers fail. You and your pals cause the added stress that they do not need. Allow them to make the game in their eyes and not yours. I'm guessing that if producers were allowed to envision their own games, the mmo market might be better.

To all of the producers that have to go through this, I'm truly sorry for continued moronic thoughts. Just know that there are a ton of us that know you're very capable of making a great game if people like the OP would allow it. You have a huge group of us awaiting that very game patiently. (Let the ban begin) :)

 

  coretex666

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/03/12
Posts: 1722

"I shall take your position into consideration"

 
OP  11/16/12 4:14:34 PM#29

Why ban

You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it.

Playing: Chronicle 1
Waiting for: None of the games already announced

My game concept thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369707 (any feedback appreciated)

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

11/19/12 12:19:22 AM#30

Has ANY MMO now longevity? I think not.

In past theres 2 or 3 MMOs existed. You could not move on. Today, every 6 weeks a new MMO is launched. How is ANY MMO to have longevity under these circumstances. Tell me that?

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  wordiz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 481

11/19/12 12:25:00 AM#31
It's too early to tell.

http://thewordiz.wordpress.com/

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

11/19/12 3:48:11 AM#32
Originally posted by Elikal

Has ANY MMO now longevity? I think not.

In past theres 2 or 3 MMOs existed. You could not move on. Today, every 6 weeks a new MMO is launched. How is ANY MMO to have longevity under these circumstances. Tell me that?

By bringing a shift in paradigm - and making it gripping.

Easier said than done of course....

  DeniZg

Elite Member

Joined: 1/29/12
Posts: 439

11/19/12 8:43:01 AM#33

It's too early to tell.

Still, we could discuss what would bring longevity to any MMORPG.

PVE wise, long-ish leveling process, with alt replayability (multiple alternative leveling zones) and carrot obtained through well scaled heroics and/or raids.

I think that even combat is not that much important as the previous features. Crafting and housing would be icing on the cake, but would not make or break the game.

PVP wise, I think the game should have at least 2/3 from the following scenarios: massive open PVP battles, instanced warzones with different objectives, instanced PVP death matches.

We know that massive PVP battles should be in, but even if they are perfectly implemented, I don't think that it will suffice, to cater to mayjority of PVP playerbase. Carrot has to be in. Either in form of vertical progression (not a fan of vertical progression  in PVP) or horizontal, which preferably transfers to other parts of the game.

  Foxxen

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/10
Posts: 21

One movement, One moment, One shot, One mistake, One questions, will you be ready?

11/19/12 11:25:03 AM#34
Originally posted by BadSpock

I hope TESO has skill progression that lasts longer than the time to get your character level to 50.

I hope TESO has gear/item progression that lasts a LOT longer than the time to get your character level to 50 and skill progression to 100 (or whatever max per skill is.)

I hope TESO has PvE difficulty escalation and scale/size of conflict progression past 50 too.

But I've found I really like the dungeon/raid PvE item progression as long as the combat is fun, the character progression is nearly constant (no walls/gates) and the whole thing isn't too grindy.

 

My favorite part of this is "the whole thing isn't too grindy."

All games are a grind, don't care what you say or do, all of them no matter what you're doing is a form of one grind or another.  You're either grinding for points, coin, gear or ranks, what ever it is, it's still a grind.  That will never change, no matter what a company does for design on game content, everything in them can be considered a grind.

Personally I also don't buy into this Theme Park / Sandbox description of games either.  Where ever that started at, needs to go away! LOL  It's like every year there is some new term for what a game is or isn't.  It doesn't bloody matter!  What matters is, you bought it, played it, was it fun?  If not, you move on!  Just like Music or Movies, you buy the CD or go pay for your Ticket to watch the movie.  Until the film starts rolling, you have no real idea ( Aside from select few we can name ) if you're really going to like this movie or not.  Same holds true with games.  I believe in games being fun, not work.  I also believe in MMO's being in a class of their own, not that of a Single Stand Alone game where it comes to life-span ( Granted I'm still replaying Skyrim a lot even as of now ).

One of my posts on here I've stated the state of MMO's are stagnate because they lack any real challenge, content or longevity.  Which is true if you think about it.  How many recent MMO's have come out and were fully completed within less than two months time from release?  I can name several, but I shouldn't need to because I'm certain you all know exactly which ones they are.  To me, that is not an MMO, that is a waste of money.  That's me or you, spending $60 to $150 or more, for the initial purchase only to find there isn't even a months worth of content or challenging enough to make it last longer.

This is what has me worried about The Elder Scrolls Online, if they follow this suit?  I'll be very disappointed and pretty much I'm going to personally give up on MMO's and just stick with games like Skyrim and hope they at one point just put a multiplayer aspect into that.  Because after playing MMO's since 2001 and I have been a part of some big ones, as well as a ton of others through Beta Testing and I feel this one for me will be my last.  I'm only going to give this one a shot because of how much I love ES series.

My concerns are all over the place on this one.  But I'm trying to have faith in the making of it.  Videos are cool and all, but we all know the truth is in the Release, not Alpha or even Stand Beta.  Nothing is solidified till six months after release, even then changes will be made. 

Guild Leader

The Order of Sanity

  Foxxen

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/10
Posts: 21

One movement, One moment, One shot, One mistake, One questions, will you be ready?

11/19/12 11:38:32 AM#35
Originally posted by Elikal

Has ANY MMO now longevity? I think not.

In past theres 2 or 3 MMOs existed. You could not move on. Today, every 6 weeks a new MMO is launched. How is ANY MMO to have longevity under these circumstances. Tell me that?

The answer is easy but the player base wont like it.  Players of today do not want to have to work for a single thing really.  They get in, rush to max level in a week or less, run a few dungeons then go to the Raids.  By the end of the month they've completed all the end game content ( Not neccessarily completed the game 100% just the part they wanted ).  This has been a growing disease on games as well as one of the biggest issues as to why MMO's do not last long anymore and there is a new one out every other month or so, if not sooner.

How this would be fixed would be first off all from the design end of things, they'd need to slow down leveling, completely.  They'd also need to offer a LOT more content upon release as well add in a couple of Major Content Updates along the way in the first year ( New Raid, New Dungeons, New Land, anything.... ).  Also stop making everything a Zerg-fest through PvE Content, so that it's a challenge again.  Give more incentives for grouping and being in Guilds ( Especially the Guild Fact which is a joke now days in all games, as in they don't make it worth joining and working within a guild, instead they promote being in multiple Guilds and never really helping any of them ).

The problem is, MMO as an industry now, is mainstream.  It used to be for those gamers that were super serious and wanted a lot more out of a game than just what a Stand Alone would give.  Stand Alone games at that time only lasted a couple of months then you had to wait almost a year before an expansion was released, then you had to wait for the next major release.  While MMO's at this time it would take you a very long time to get to max level, you had constantly growing, ever-changing environments with added content to keep you busy for an extremely long time.

Today everyone is in a hurry, everyone wants to hit max level and get into raiding.  I blame WoW for this mantality.  Not at first, but definitely later.  Now everyone feels pressured to do this or they wont get players.  Personally I feel a game company should not care to become the next big icon in the gaming industry, as this leads to poor quality in design, mechanics and over all gaming experience.  Because all they're doing is releasing this stuff too soon to the public, rushing it out, to make money as fast as they can.  Then when it fails, they take it to Free To Play ( Freemium ) to nickle and dime you to death by touting the word "FREE" in it.

The MMO industry is no longer about quality, it's about quantity and has lost touch with what it really should be.  It started catering to people that it should have stood up against and said "If you don't like our game, there are others to choose from".  This is the biggest single issue MMO's have to deal with and it's going to take one heck of a company to really pull it back together and be accepting of the fact they will never have the numbers of the so called "Mainstream" games, but they will have the most loyal players for it though.  By that I mean they're so happy with the fact they have quality in the game that they're not sitting at their keyboards night after night talking about how they hope the next game coming out is far better than the one they're currently in....

Guild Leader

The Order of Sanity

  Foxxen

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/30/10
Posts: 21

One movement, One moment, One shot, One mistake, One questions, will you be ready?

11/19/12 12:05:36 PM#36
Originally posted by DeniZg

It's too early to tell.

Still, we could discuss what would bring longevity to any MMORPG.

PVE wise, long-ish leveling process, with alt replayability (multiple alternative leveling zones) and carrot obtained through well scaled heroics and/or raids.

I think that even combat is not that much important as the previous features. Crafting and housing would be icing on the cake, but would not make or break the game.

PVP wise, I think the game should have at least 2/3 from the following scenarios: massive open PVP battles, instanced warzones with different objectives, instanced PVP death matches.

We know that massive PVP battles should be in, but even if they are perfectly implemented, I don't think that it will suffice, to cater to mayjority of PVP playerbase. Carrot has to be in. Either in form of vertical progression (not a fan of vertical progression  in PVP) or horizontal, which preferably transfers to other parts of the game.

Personally here is a small list of what I feel would help....

  1. Longer Leveling Cycles
  2. A lot more Story Based Content ( Pull people into the story, not just do quest hubs )
  3. Give more choices ( Like instead of classes, just choose a Race then play it how you intend it to be played ie: Skyrim )
  4. Break away from the duldrum of Talent Trees, use a system similar to Skyrim in this respect but put your twist on it.
  5. I like the 3 Faction idea, but don't let the race decide what faction you're a part of.  Defecting is always an option, but it also should be permanent.  This allows for endless replayability in the long run.
  6. Pace out the game's progression a lot better, by limiting the skills used by players ( Like no more AE heavy classes, only have like one or two ways to get AE's and put them on decent Cool Downs so that fights take more effort and coordination ).
  7. Make Crafting the primary way to get gear!  Do the Dungeons and Raids for the higher level components to make said gear, but make crafting the Primary way and don't chump it up.  Make it similar to Vanguard where you have to really work for it.
  8. Make Guilds important once again.  Give players a lot more benifits for joining a Guild and Sticking with them. DAoC did this very well.
  9. Make Alliances possible, again DAoC did this extremely well. This is great for a lot of smaller Guilds to band together and work as one.  This has NOT been done in a long time and needs to come back.
  10. Stop doing the "Heroic, Nightmare, Hellmode" options on dungeons.  Just add another Dungeon, stop being lazy in development, stop rushing things, put in more content.  If you want it to be for certain skill levels, then do it for that skill level.  Stop the Cut & Paste programming.  It's outdated and boring.....  More dungeons means more content which means the game has more to offer and will last longer.
  11. There should be a bigger focus on grouping in MMO's as well, you should be able to solo in content too, but there needs more group content.  As this is a MMO, not a stand alone.
  12. Add Player Housing, believe it or now, this is another way to slow down leveling, extending the life of the game in other ways than just constantly beating on stuff.  Again I'm going to refer to Skyrim, make it so that they have to gather the materials and learn how to use a subset of crafting skills to build a house themselves.  Also offer lots of options based on cost for the style of house.  This gets a player involved and trust me, offering them something like this will keep them busy for weeks!
 
I could go on and on here, as myself I have a lot of ideas of what I'd want to see in an MMO.  I feel after playing them for over 11 years now, I could come up with a complete story line, map and full drawn out plans for one.  If I had the people to work with to help build on?  I definitely would.  But I'm no programmer, I'm a graphic artist and musician.  I get together nightly almost with friends and this is all we talk about some nights is how we would do things if we could.  At certain times I have said, we should!  But these things take years to develop and to do one right would definitely be that, years!

Guild Leader

The Order of Sanity

  nethervoid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/05
Posts: 531

11/19/12 2:40:08 PM#37
If it's a themepark, probably not. I'm really burned out on themeparks.

nethervoid - Est. '97
[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]
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  Yamota

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6387

There's a beast within every man that stirs when you put a sword in his hand

11/19/12 2:42:41 PM#38

Will it sell copies and be profitable? Yes, with an IP this big it would be hard not to.

Will it have longetivity? No ThemePark since WoW have shown singicant longetivity so probably not. Average playtime will probably be around 2-3 months.

  thexrated

Novice Member

Joined: 11/26/04
Posts: 1377

11/19/12 3:13:16 PM#39
Not looking for longevity. Happy with few months worth of entertainment.

"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."

  Lizardone

Novice Member

Joined: 11/18/12
Posts: 94

11/19/12 6:44:53 PM#40
need to try the game, hopefully in beta; that will give me an idea if I will or won't play the game when released
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