Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Seens that ArcheAge (AA) will be the first and only AAA sandbox mmo to be released in these last 10 years. Your producer, Jake Song, said that AA will be the "spiritual sucessor" of UO. So, we can wait to have back UO in a updated graphical version.

Jake Song classified the mmos in 2 generations: the first generation are mmos like UO, Lineage and similars. These were mmos with big freedom and poor graphics, producing true "societies" in-game . The second generation started with WoW, with mmos with good graphics, huge content, but very little or no freedom, with single-player like content. Song said that ArcheAge want start the third generation, retaking the freedom and recreating the "virtual worlds" of the first generation, but incorporating the graphical and some fun tools of the second generation (Ex: quests).

He said too that first mmos created societies while the modern mmos created a playerbase completely dependent in developers content, that consume all content of the mmo in little time and constantly asks for more, creating a vicious cicle.

 

 

However, i know only AA. Anyone knows any other big budget or AAA mmo to be released or produced that can be considered sandbox?

 

 

 

 

Someone else said this recently.......who was it............? Started with an A, I think...........ended with net, or some such.

Hmmm, oh well, it will come to me later. Anyway, I like to see the Devs toot their own horns.

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Originally posted by Uzik Darkfall Unholy Wars.   These other games being mentioned are not "sandboxes".  You cannot have a true sandbox game with artificial faction systems, fake territory control, and no-loot PvP.

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I still can't believe so many people do not realize this. Darkfall is the ONLY modern mmo that offers complex social interaction and freedom of choice. This is what you call a sandbox.

I must warn you, though. Darkfall will spoil you and you wont be able to play any other mmo out there.

Archeage does look somewhat interesting. But the whole game is based on gardening. You need to plant trees, then look after them day after day, just to make some equipment. The whole end game is defined by those god damn trees. You siege other territories, just so you can plant more trees. In my opinion it's just plain stupid.

edit:I might be grossly uninformed, but that's what was going on in CBT4.

Originally posted by Vunak23

ArcheAge is a Sandpark, its what the fans have dubbed it. It takes the leveling from a themepark and the endgame of a sandbox. The class design is a mix as well. 

Its been heavily influenced by the Lineage series, since it is coming from the mind that created the Lineage series Jake Song. It is not as grindy as Lineage, and supports more sandbox features than themepark features than lineage did. 

This seens the perfect combination, since the old sandboxes leveling system are MUCH grind (althought they provided much motivation to do it). The themepark leveling system can be less boring, but didn't provide a motivation to be done (you will gain lv and gear to what? Only to have by the sake of have?). The combination of a less grinding leveling system with a sandbox endgame seens to solve these 2 problems.

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Roxtarr
Didn't the developers call it a "SandPark"?  Doesn't this usually turn off Sandbox fans?

Yeah. ArcheAge is not a sandbox and those who expect UO 2 Korean AAA version will be greatly disappointed.  

I am waiting on ArcheAge and hope that If publisher will create f2p or freemium servers he will create also separate pure p2p one, cannot imagine playing this game otherwise.

Anyway - ArcheAge seems like a mix between WoW Vanilla, Lineage II and UO.    There is ALOT of themepark elements in ArcheAge albeit far less than in themepark. 

 

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On topic:  Aside of AA ?    Black Desert propably.

Yes, but the developers promised a community like UO, but with the introduction of elements of Lineage and even WoW. They say that AA will have "the freedom of UO, the pve of WoW and the pvp of L2".

But developers promises can be bravado, like some developers (Ex: Tera Online) that call their games "sandbox" and deliver a themepark.

We shouldn't be using lame titles like sandbox,Archeage is a MMORPG and that is what EVERY game should be that uses this genre.

AA will be the closest thing to a MMORPG since Vanguard,everything else in between has been very shallow efforts with minimal game play.

No there is not anything else worth mentioning,just a bunch of browser games and cheap f2p games.

Sadly even Archeage will have some serious flaws ,example the class selection is not open enough,i prefer the FFXI style hybrid/sub -class system not prefabbed limited selections.

The class design/structure is imo the most important aspect to start game desgin.if you do not have the mutli class hybrid system,your character becomes end game,null and void very quickly.It removes the realism of having a player learn everything and become enthralled in the game world.

Aside from class structure the other very important thing missing from games is the ECO system,it is another important part of adding realism and pronouncing the RPG aspects of a game.

If everyone just follows the exact same pattern of quest >quest then looks for end game,it is no longer a rpg,just a single player design with added internet.It has also been so over done,i am sure the majority are sick of doing it.

AA will maintain the MMO aspect like every other game with it's pvp,that imo is not enough,pvp should be a minimal part of a rpg.

If AA cannot hold my interest,i feel it might be my last time playing a mmorpg,i might go back to playing the instant action first person shooters or maybe get back into sports or something as i have wasted a lot of time playing sub par games.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by Uzik

Darkfall Unholy Wars.

 

These other games being mentioned are not "sandboxes".  You cannot have a true sandbox game with artificial faction systems, fake territory control, and no-loot PvP.

you have a strange definition of sandbox.

The major downside of the faction system is that it takes from the player his control of who is friend or enemy, what restricts the socio-political aspects of the mmo.

In AA, however, the system will combine the "flag system" of L2 with the faction system of WoW, where you can kill players of your own faction with penaltys and kill freely the players of enemy factions (with rewards). If to be possible the "war system" between guilds of the same faction (like in L2), will be almost perfect.

And factions will not be a karma: you can defect and join them or be a pirate, enemy of all.

Originally posted by Chosen1

Darkfall is the ONLY modern mmo that offers complex social interaction and freedom of choice. This is what you call a sandbox.

I must warn you, though. Darkfall will spoil you and you wont be able to play any other mmo out there.

Darkfall is such a hardcore sandbox even Darkfall couldn't take the extreme hardcore badassedness, so AV decided it needed to developed a new game (and shutdown the original) with class "roles," reduced skills, safe areas, and so on. (i.e. moved towards the dreaded themepark!) Nevermind that it has a static map, with static city/village/resourse locations (not very sandbox, eh?)

And before all the sandbox fanbois can jump in and say they hate those changes, the irony of why sandbox games fail is because their biggest supporters _hate_ anything but the very narrow range of things they want to have. God forbid DF:UW hada "PvE" server (whatever ruleset that is) that non-uber awesome PvPers could choose to play on (and AV might actually make some more cash). Afterall, having options in a sandbox totally ruins the experience!!!!! *rolls eyes*

P.S. When did AV become a AAA developer?

That being said.. Still waiting for Shadowbane 2...

Looks like somebody is wrong on the internet again.

But whatever, to each his own, amiright?

The fact remains the same - nobody has named a single sandbox game in this thread so far, well, besides Darkfall. Why would you feel the need to bash it?
Provide your example and the reasons behind it, and we'll compare.

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Originally posted by fenistil

Originally posted by Roxtarr
Didn't the developers call it a "SandPark"?  Doesn't this usually turn off Sandbox fans?

Yeah. ArcheAge is not a sandbox and those who expect UO 2 Korean AAA version will be greatly disappointed.  

I am waiting on ArcheAge and hope that If publisher will create f2p or freemium servers he will create also separate pure p2p one, cannot imagine playing this game otherwise.

Anyway - ArcheAge seems like a mix between WoW Vanilla, Lineage II and UO.    There is ALOT of themepark elements in ArcheAge albeit far less than in themepark. 

 

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On topic:  Aside of AA ?    Black Desert propably.

Yes, but the developers promised a community like UO, but with the introduction of elements of Lineage and even WoW. They say that AA will have "the freedom of UO, the pve of WoW and the pvp of L2".

But developers promises can be bravado, like some developers (Ex: Tera Online) that call their games "sandbox" and deliver a themepark.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah I know but let's be realisitc.  It won't have as much themepark content as WoW, as much sandbox systems as UO and as much uniqueness  and various things like Lineage II.     That kind of game would cost more than Swtor and would be in development for 10 + years ;p

I think ArcheAge might be nice game and I am looking forward to it, but let's not overhype and not overexpect.  

It will have many elements of WoW but not as much content and not all WoW tools / systems (which might be good actually ;p). It will have many sandbox elements from UO but it certainly won't be as "hardcore" "harsh" sandbox like UO was. Propably sandbox-lite.  

Imo be realistic + check what AA offers asd there is no NDA and those folks might be okeyish with it. 

Overhype and be disappointed.  Remember XL Games don't have Swtor or GW2 budget.  Yes they have millions, but it is not EA, Acti or NCSoft and let's be aware of that.  

AA is borderline AAA production.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVXX58e1Sfc seems legit

On the serious note though - I've never heard of it. Could you link to a forum post or a website that has an overview of that game?

edit: this how mmorpg.com describes the game you've mentioned: "... Little is known about the game other than it is currently in development."

Black Desert will be the next AAA after Archeage.

Plus it has "action combat"... hopefully it doesn't let me down somehow.

Originally posted by Venger

I doubt we will see a AAA sandbox.  Take a look at Greed Monger.

http://www.greedmonger.com/

greed monger is my hope.  even started a thread about it.  Here's hoping for the best!

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Originally posted by Pivotelite Black Desert will be the next AAA after Archeage.   Plus it has "action combat"... hopefully it doesn't let me down somehow.

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*before.

We'll be lucky to see Archage in NA and EU in 2014.

Edit: The info that has been released on Black Desert online sure is intriguing. But I have high doubts on how the game will run 1000 vs 1000 sieges with those pretty graphics.

from what I saw in the video's for ArcheAge, Players were building private vessels to sail on, had gardens 9some underwater) that were not instanced, as well as cooperative villiages and involved rescource management and collection, such as planting whole forests, and the number of steps milling actually takes in the game. Something, as simple as a mount seems to work better in archage then in any other mmo. And players can style a charecter seemingly almost any way they like.

You can effect the way the world looks and changes in so many ways ....yet this is not sandbox?

And it seems the only common unsaid egreeance people have on what themepark is; is a progressive level system.

I think i'm at that point where I have heard people use the words sandbox and themepark so much that it just all sounds like "bar bar bar" to me.

Originally posted by StarI
Archage is not sandbox, it's a new age themepark with a lot of fluff.

If you cannot kill, loot, destroy and steal you GREATLY limit the overall spectrum of social interactions.

If you want a crafting game that is fine, but it is not a sandbox. 

A sandbox implies that you can build something, and someone else can knock it down.  Without room for people to be truly evil and for players to truly lose something of value, the overall accomplishment is no better than playing a single player RPG.  Your reliance on social interaction is EXTREMELY limited when things like PvP, and territory control are so structured.