Originally posted by Onomas
No to the guy u quoted. Was agreeing with u in a way, just didn't tell u ;-)

Fair enough :p

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Originally posted by Piiritus
Personally I prefer good games because I have one world already where I live in. I don't need more worlds. Just a good game is all I want.

But in our real world we can't much be a feudal lord, a pirate, a knight, a king, a hero, to participate in political intrigues, fight for conquer lands or defend ours, search treasures, etc etc etc with or againts characters controled by actual human brains.

You might want to look up LARP.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Originally posted by Piiritus
Personally I prefer good games because I have one world already where I live in. I don't need more worlds. Just a good game is all I want.

But in our real world we can't much be a feudal lord, a pirate, a knight, a king, a hero, to participate in political intrigues, fight for conquer lands or defend ours, search treasures, etc etc etc with or againts characters controled by actual human brains.

You might want to look up LARP.

oh lulz

Originally posted by Thane

if it's soooo easy to "Just add multiplayer" to a game, tell me why there are like 4 or 5 coop shooters max?

hmmm >  http://www.co-optimus.com/system/4/pc.html , seems there is ALLOT more co-op shooters then 4 or 5 co-op shooters you pretend excist.

what people want is what they pay for. nowadays kids pay for everything enough of their "friends" are playing.

you wanna know what the real prob is?

 

having 3k facebook friends you gotta satisfie by playing some game you dont even like.

back in the "good old days" we just hang out with people we actually knew and liked. THAT changed.

Hmmm again, no it has not changed, perhaps you have changed, but I still rather hang out with people I know or am getting to know due to liking them.

and to name some examples of the "good old days":

 

* daoc having active game content (pvp) up to 12 or 1 am. after that, servers were empty (unless you had a ninja relic raid).

* wow crashing on every 3rd mining try, resulting in you being stuck in that animation till logout or even longer.

* pings of 500 being normal.

* mmo servers with like 1 or 2k players MAX (not online at the same time, at all).

 Always funny to read what people asume we want back cause you already know that the things you listed as "good old day's" is NOT what the oldschool'r wants today. But then again you already figured that out when you actually took the time to read the OP.

 

are you sure that's what you are looking for?? are you REALLY sure you remember that good old times propperly. and not like your first time sex ("damn that was soooooo goood.... and daahaaamn, I was good!")?

 Maybe you should re-read the topic to see what he is asking, kinda wierd that you  totally ignore that and just made up stuff.

 

when i see posts like this one, i usualy just smile, and move on, but since you guys decided to post one of those every 4 days now.... comment be done.

Shame your comment didn't even wrote one thing in reference to the OP.

maybe people should just stop to claim to know what everyone ELSE wants ("WE WANT WORLD NOT GAMES!!!" << who'S that we? you and your mom?) and try to find out what YOU really want.

I can count myself into the WE, that doesn't mean it truly means everyone, only those who actually are looking for gameworlds instead of game "games" understand that.

I feel I am a true gamer, I play all sorts of game-genre's (RTS, Arcade RTS, FPS, God-games, Puzzle, Adventure, RPG's etc..etc...) So for me personaly I already play plenty of game "games" where I used the think that MMORPG was the closest I can get to a virtual world where the gameworld actually was a real world but in a fantasy or sci-fi setting. Everything was there from player housing, player run shops, non-combat professions, combat professions, crafters, traders, harvesters/collecters/scaveners. This all became awefull limited with this new themepark era. But don't get me wrong I am glad there are so many themepark MMO's out there as they seem to satisfied the wants and needs of a new majority of people into these games.

But also understand there can be room for more, as topics like this suggest.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by maccarthur2004

Originally posted by Piiritus
Personally I prefer good games because I have one world already where I live in. I don't need more worlds. Just a good game is all I want.

But in our real world we can't much be a feudal lord, a pirate, a knight, a king, a hero, to participate in political intrigues, fight for conquer lands or defend ours, search treasures, etc etc etc with or againts characters controled by actual human brains.

You might want to look up LARP.

LARP is a gay thing. And wear fantasy clothes don't represent 0,1% of the fantasy simulation allowed by a good mmo.

I agree with the OP.  Too many "games" - ones that fail to take advantage of the one major advantage MMOs bring to the table, a persistent world with a massive potential society.

There are games, like Mortal Online, Xsyon, and Perpetuun, that provide a "world" instead of just a game.  They aren't perfect, either, but are a lot closer to the mark in what an MMORPG should be.

Originally posted by Banaghran

As for stealth, we are once again at combat, in this sense that you seem to replace the challenge of beating a monster with the challenge to evade it, throwing in another well talked about foggy concept - "core gameplay". I simply look at it more strategically, if i can put it that way. What you can do with it >> how specifically you are doing it.

Yes, i am. I am talking about gameplay based on conflict (evade a monster, kill a monster, charm a monster so he will kill his partner ...), and abilities (power) that the player has.

Things like creation (crafting), or social in nature (forming groups) interests me very little.

As for the combat metagame, It is fun to a point, as everything, where grind is discouraging people with the number of monsters to kill and similar things, we are now dangerously close to discourage players by the sheer amount of decisions needed is a small timeframe, which is as dangerous, if not more, due to lag and other online limitations (and less and less posibilities to avoid the decisionmaking by putting in more "work" outside combat). Look at class composition, we fool ourselves in thinking that players go for fotm because of power and that they want to perform at "150%" due to being op, but in reality for most people it stops at 100% with just the advantage of being 50% less effort. That is why a hard to do fotm op thing never is as visible as one that is easy to pull off.

Oh, i mean the meta game like creating builds, optimizing gear .. you can take hours to make those decisions. In combat, you only make a small number (but interesting) decisions. Do i use my potion now? Do i go this way or that? Do i use my cool-down skill or save it?

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Piiritus
Personally I prefer good games because I have one world already where I live in. I don't need more worlds. Just a good game is all I want.

There are already thousands upon thousands of games. Using your line of reasoning you shouldn't want another one of those either.

 

Want just a game, go play a console RPG game. Don't try turning mmorpg's into console games. Mmorpg are meant to be huge with lots of features, social aspects, and much more. Stop trying to reason for dumbing down mmorpg's.

That is the most arrogant and condescending post. Who are you to dictate what players should do? If MMOs are being more game-like, why shouldn't i play it if i like games more than world?

Dumbing down? Making players sit for 20 min boat ride is not dumbing now, it is smarting up. It is trivial to take a boad ride and there is no challenge. Worlds are full of dumb, slow, moment. Don't tell me the need to sit down and eat for 5 min (realistic .. but boring) is challening.

MMORPS are not meant for anything. They are entertaining products and change according to players' need. If the old ideas (like big world and forced social) are not working, why shouldn't something else (lobby games!) be tried?

We want worlds.

We want sandbox!!

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Piiritus
Personally I prefer good games because I have one world already where I live in. I don't need more worlds. Just a good game is all I want.

There are already thousands upon thousands of games. Using your line of reasoning you shouldn't want another one of those either.

 

Want just a game, go play a console RPG game. Don't try turning mmorpg's into console games. Mmorpg are meant to be huge with lots of features, social aspects, and much more. Stop trying to reason for dumbing down mmorpg's.

That is the most arrogant and condescending post. Who are you to dictate what players should do? If MMOs are being more game-like, why shouldn't i play it if i like games more than world?

Dumbing down? Making players sit for 20 min boat ride is not dumbing now, it is smarting up. It is trivial to take a boad ride and there is no challenge. Worlds are full of dumb, slow, moment. Don't tell me the need to sit down and eat for 5 min (realistic .. but boring) is challening.

MMORPS are not meant for anything. They are entertaining products and change according to players' need. If the old ideas (like big world and forced social) are not working, why shouldn't something else (lobby games!) be tried?

I disagree.

Realistic rides boost strategies, since make the players plan better the position of your forces or a military operation considering the expected time to allys come in help of the enemys or theirs.

I think that this struggle between mmo fans that want "true" mmorpgs and players that think that mmos are "just games" like any other will only ends when a AAA sandbox come and these 2 types of players become finaly separated, each one in your AAA mmo of your preference.

At moment, the nearer of a AAA sandbox mmo to come is Archeage.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Onomas

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by Piiritus
Personally I prefer good games because I have one world already where I live in. I don't need more worlds. Just a good game is all I want.

There are already thousands upon thousands of games. Using your line of reasoning you shouldn't want another one of those either.

 

Want just a game, go play a console RPG game. Don't try turning mmorpg's into console games. Mmorpg are meant to be huge with lots of features, social aspects, and much more. Stop trying to reason for dumbing down mmorpg's.

That is the most arrogant and condescending post. Who are you to dictate what players should do? If MMOs are being more game-like, why shouldn't i play it if i like games more than world?

Not arrogant at all. This is mmorpg, not single player, small world, no crafting, no exploration, no content, boring end game, and no social aspect of a console game. Whats arrogant is people that want kotor4 whinning and crying and we end up with SWTOR the most "epic" mmo ever that crashed and burned in a month. Or GW2 thats falling faster than a fat person being pushed out of a plane. Its simple the 2 must be seperated or you get failures. And there have been more than a handful of those lately. All trying to be like single player rpg's.

Dumbing down? Making players sit for 20 min boat ride is not dumbing now, it is smarting up. It is trivial to take a boad ride and there is no challenge. Worlds are full of dumb, slow, moment. Don't tell me the need to sit down and eat for 5 min (realistic .. but boring) is challening.

See you are a linear person. Thinking only of travel time compared to the other hundred mmo aspects of a true mmorpg. Most i have ever waited to travel was 10 minutes in SWG. But i took part of a true mmo and did some socialization and just talked to people at the starport. Something you dont see in todays mmo's.

Crafting = dumbed down.

Housing = dumbed down

Social aspect = dumbed down- no one just chats with people any more. No one slows down and just has a good time. Its a race to max level and then a race to the forums to whine about how boring a game is.

Exploration = dumbed down

Combat = dumbed down

Must i go on?

You only can only think of travel time? LOL

MMORPS are not meant for anything. They are entertaining products and change according to players' need. If the old ideas (like big world and forced social) are not working, why shouldn't something else (lobby games!) be tried?

MMORPG's are mass world with lots of people. Its an escape to an alternate universe so to speak. To explore, to craft, to make things, to build, to journey out and see what each area has to offer, to chat with strangers, to make friends, to enjoy the game. Not rush thru on a set path, being led around on a leash, with no mmo features what so ever. Its nothing more than consile rpg you are forced to pay a monthly fee for.

Yes mmo;s ahve been dumbed down and turned into games they think are worthy of a mmo.

WARZ= mmo? lol

FPS are being called mmo's now. lol

So is BF3 a mmo because i can get 100+ people on one server? Give me a break.

Its the old ideas that are not working? Yeah let me see................. 45 mmo's released in the past 2 years, and 44 fell on their butts in 3 months or less due to being the new way. I think your logic is flawed and that is why you are seeing a huge number of sandboxes coming out around the corner. The new way is broke and sucks.

Forced social? Since when is enjoying your community brothers and making small talk forced or a bad thing?

Big worlds?Bad? Are you kidding me. Small world with a path you have to follow...you like that? A leash around your neck?

Why shouldnt lobby games be tried? They have been for 5+ years and all have failed. Only one to even come close to being successful is rift.

Sorry but you dont want a mmo, you want a console game.

And funny thing is console games are actualy starting to come out with more content and mmo features than a real mmo lol.

No new way been beaten to death and nothing has come out of it. Time to renew the old ways.

Originally posted by Onomas

 

/snip

Not arrogant at all. This is mmorpg, not single player, small world, no crafting, no exploration, no content, boring end game, and no social aspect of a console game. Whats arrogant is people that want kotor4 whinning and crying and we end up with SWTOR the most "epic" mmo ever that crashed and burned in a month. Or GW2 thats falling faster than a fat person being pushed out of a plane. Its simple the 2 must be seperated or you get failures. And there have been more than a handful of those lately. All trying to be like single player rpg's.

 

This giant post is basically saying 'This is what an MMO is and shall be!' to other people.

If you can't see why that is arrogant, then you are beyond help.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Onomas

 

/snip

Not arrogant at all. This is mmorpg, not single player, small world, no crafting, no exploration, no content, boring end game, and no social aspect of a console game. Whats arrogant is people that want kotor4 whinning and crying and we end up with SWTOR the most "epic" mmo ever that crashed and burned in a month. Or GW2 thats falling faster than a fat person being pushed out of a plane. Its simple the 2 must be seperated or you get failures. And there have been more than a handful of those lately. All trying to be like single player rpg's.

 

This giant post is basically saying 'This is what an MMO is and shall be!' to other people.

If you can't see why that is arrogant, then you are beyond help.

Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within a virtual game world.

As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world) and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world (usually hosted by the game's publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game.

Although modern MMORPGs sometimes differ dramatically from their antecedents, many of them share some basic characteristics. These include several common features: persistent game environment, some form of progression, social interaction within the game, in-game culture, system architecture, membership in a group, and character customization.

Also, traditional in the genre is the eventual demand on players to team up with others in order to progress at the optimal rate. This sometimes forces players to change their real-world schedules in order to "keep up" within the game-world. A good example of this is the need to trade items to achieve certain goals, or teaming up to kill a powerful enemy.

MMORPGs almost always have tools to facilitate communication between players. Many MMORPGs offer support for in-game guilds or clans (though these will usually form whether the game supports them or not).

In addition, most MMOs require some degree of teamwork for parts of the game. These tasks usually require players to take on roles in the group, such as those protecting other players from damage (called tanking), "healing" damage done to other players or damaging enemies.

WELL im DONE quoting YOU can READ more ABOUT mmo's HERE: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massively_multiplayer_online_role-playing_game

I mean jesus, not like it isnt written out in black and white lol. Want me to make a mspaint picture for you, to dumb it down so you can get it?

Originally posted by ForTheCity
I think there is a bigger majority who like "games" such as halo, mario, etc because they don't really need to think. The story is thought out for them so they just do as they are told. When people play games they want to relax and I think thats why people prefer these types of games instead of open world.

And no one is saying that those games are bad. On rails storyline is a thing, its appealing and is great for the market.

The problem is that most MMOs have chased this type of gamer too and they play the MMOs just like they play single player games. These gamers treat them as an extended single player game. So while they might spend 2-4 weeks in a single player game they spend 4-8 weeks in an MMO and play "through the content" and bail.

What this thread is saying is that MMOs if they want long term success need to give us a world and not a game designed to be played for a bit and passed for the next big thing. If MMOs like the current trend and profitability, feel free to keep doing the same thing.

Originally posted by zekeofev

 

/snip

What this thread is saying is that MMOs if they want long term success need to give us a world and not a game designed to be played for a bit and passed for the next big thing. If MMOs like the current trend and profitability, feel free to keep doing the same thing.

A lot of companies are actually realizing that MMOs don't have to go long term to be profitable.

Think of it as 'make slight profit on box sales and pure profit on the DLC (subs for MMOs)' model that a lot of games have right now.

Whether this is good or bad is irrevelant as everyone will have their own opinion on things, it is just how the market is right now.

I kinda expect a lot more MMOs to come out, do reasonably well (make profit for the company) and kinda go into maintanance mode / make expansion packs etc.

Originally posted by JimmyYO
Couldn't agree with this thread more. The few that try to make an actual world are so buggy and non-immersive it's embarrasing.

I understand why people want 'worlds' but they are the minority.

Here's a question, which 'world' MMO do you play and support?

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by JimmyYO
Couldn't agree with this thread more. The few that try to make an actual world are so buggy and non-immersive it's embarrasing.

I understand why people want 'worlds' but they are the minority.

Here's a question, which 'world' MMO do you play and support?

How can you be so sure that "they are the minority".  Done correctly I think it could be a big hit.

Currently? None. In the past I have played SWG until just after the NGE and AC->AC2. I played Vanguard a little bit as well.

One of my major definitions of worlds are the ability to do something non combat related to progress (even if it is horizontal or progression in another area). I absolutely loved creature handling or dancer/musician in SWG as well as crafting in AC.

I enjoyed SWG and AC for long periods of time much longer then any other game I have played and I miss that longevity in my MMOs. I came for the world of SWG and I stayed for the creative and different gameplay yet today we get formulaic encounters and on rails play instead of rewarding exploration.

I honestly do not understand why anyone would want a smaller world. Just because there is a large world and 100 features, doesnt mean you have to take part in them. But to not have the choice, or to be limited in every way........ you people want and like that? I mean come on, majority of the reasons for small world is just down right sad.

So what if a game has housing....dont like it dont use one.

Crafting you dont like.......... dont craft

Exploration you dont want to spend 5 minutes looking at cool things?......... dont

Dont like social aspect? Dont talk to anyone lol.

I mean seriously. You would rather have a game already lacking content and then have it so easy you can hit end game in 3 days and cry on the forums? This is your idea of fun?

Sandboxes and large world are making a huge come back. 4 of the top 8-10 games listed here to be released are sandboxes with huge open worlds. Many of the asian companies are switching over to sandbox because themeparks have been raped 1000 times by you linear people.

I like the option, i like having the choice if i want to pvp today or craft, run by the lake to fish, or climb a mountain to look at the valley below. I like wide open worlds with all the features to keep me content. Not wait around for a release of more raids and warzone to keep me occupied lol. You are forced into pvp and one line moving forward with these types of games. There is nothing else to do but dailies, raids, and pvp. Why i like sandboxes, i can do 100 things while you are limited to 3 lol.

And remember: PLAYER CONTENT> EVERYTHING ELSE. Lot of creative people out there, and most fun i have had playing a mmo came from the community not a dev team trying to make garbage updates to keep their players happy.

Originally posted by zekeofev

Originally posted by jpnz

 

I understand why people want 'worlds' but they are the minority.

Here's a question, which 'world' MMO do you play and support?

 

How can you be so sure that "they are the minority".  Done correctly I think it could be a big hit.

 /snip

You think it could be a 'big hit'.

Would you invest millions of dollars into what one person (or just a group of vocal people) thinks could be a 'big hit'?

At the moment, games > world when it comes to $$$ made. That's just fact. So yes, you are the minority.

Whether you enjoy games or world is irreverent when it comes to that fact.