We all get jaded and we get jaded by our main hobbies more than anything else. But as we have changed MMO's have changed too. If they now had stronger stories and social interaction, became more world like and allowed amazing faction warfare, we would be far less jaded.

But they have become streamlind easyMMO's. Which cannot hold anyones attention for more than a few months. So it is hardly surprising we find them so shallow.

Originally posted by ozmono

Where do you class yourself in these groups of people or types of mmorpg.com local denizens as you call them?

The problem too often on these forums is that people are over confident in their analysis of everyone else. It's most probable that people could achieve much more if they focused their attention on describing their own opinions or better yet improving themselves rather than looking down their noses and labeling everyone else. There is a huge spectrum of beliefs and unimaginable variety of peoples and quite frankly belonging to one or a few of the groups that is quoted above is preferable to belong to the group I mention. Trust me I am a part of it.

Oh, no doubt among the habitual trolls.  Enough people that've taken a personal dislike to me have told me so.

But that's more from being a 30-year forum vet than a gaming vet :P

The question asked, as asked, is impossible to answer without "looking down your nose at everyone else"--frankly appraising their behavior from an outside POV--you can't shake someone out of their delusions without it.  As  long as they maintain those delusions, they'll continue to believe the tear-the-world-down game they're playing is a healthy one...for them, or for the industry.

Torgim, remake the thread, let's talk about negativity, cynicism, and anonymity instead.  Might be more approachable topics.

Originally posted by MindTrigger

We probably have "grown up", but I don't think that means we grew out of gaming.  What I find is that the games marketed at your average MMO gamer (almost all of them) don't appeal to me because I want a deeper, more complex experience.  It's likely that a lot of gamers who have been into MMO's for a long time really expect more now.

Imo, this is exactly right.

Honestly we should have more in these games.  When you look at how much they have evolved, I mean really look at the programming and technology, there's doesn't seem to be much to point to.  Your average MMO appears to have no better AI, for example, than the aliens in the original Unreal FPS game.  In fact, I don't think they have much AI at all.  They just seem to have some mechanical reactions to getting attacked, which includes a list of attacks and a roll of the dice to see which one will get thrown.  That's just weak.

The irony is that mmorpgs should replace AI with other players, because AI is never going to be as complex to interact with (not until some sort of quantum computing pisses all over the Turing test). Yet so many mmorpgs limit player-player interaction! It's crazy.

While game worlds obviously look better, most of them don't really have much for dynamic content that make the world feel alive.  What is available feels very mechnical and contrived after a short time playing.  The atmospheric  / weather systems in these games feels weak, if they bother to put it in at all these days.  Look at SWTOR abandoning even the day and night cycle, let alone dynamic weather.

The graphics have been market driven to look better but all that rendering just limits the dynamic systems to interact with. Eg dwarf fortress, minecraft.

I'd back up the above by saying iOS gaming is a sort of golden age for games that were doing the rounds back in the day. Quick, cheap and experimental reduxes.

Be interesting to see how some of the quasi-mmo sandboxes end up doing eg Star Citizen, Elite:dangerous, 0x10^c and so on.

War stories all of us old timers have them. Some good some bad. My suggestion. Go check out VANGUARD especially now is a good time. 

There is no way to sugar-coat  this, so let’s just put it bluntly and clear. Games became mainstream.  At our present day most games are commercially exploited products hiding behind a thin layer of (sugar)eye-candy. Yes, there are exceptions, there are always exceptions (or worse, statistics).

Basically, it went from competent developers to mass production, man.

It is completely like the music industry. From competent  artists to mass production. Oh hey, welcome to capitalism. Enjoy your stay.

peace

Originally posted by pauly6478
SATURATION

SATIATION might be more appropriate, for this topic.

Or ENNUI, but that doesn't have the clever alliteration.

"Man does not cease to play because he grows old....

He grows old because he ceases to play."

George Benard Shaw

Originally posted by darkhalf357x

Originally posted by Torgrim

For me i like gaming this is part of my life since pong 1982 at the girl next door who had a big brother that had that very first "mobile" playing station.

I wasen't into mud, I played games on 64, and Amiga, my very first MMO was Meridian59 that game as a demo, yeah funny it wasen't called freetrial back then.

I played the demo didn't like much, so I continued playing C&C, Starcontrol 2, D&D games and alike and bla bla.

I loved Baldurs  gate 1 and 2, I loved Icewind dale 1, I loved Ultima series from 1 to Online.

I tried SWG at launch it was a mess but got better at the end, I fell in love with EQ, but got pissed more times than I want to say ;)

I really love gaming well I thought I did, let me explain, I'm a gamer like all of you, we all like games, I can read about a game dream about it how much fun it will be but the thing is is when I get the game It's not always like it used to the feeling is gone

Sure the game is good and fun and every bells and wissles are there just like the old days but I lost the feeling.

I can still feel the upcomming games with joy but not as much playing them, sure I'm having fun, but the fun I had when I was younger., that feeling is gone.

SO am I'm burned out or am I a relic of old gaming?

Im the same.  Started gaming back in 78 with the Telestar Ranger system. Rolled through all the console generations starting with Atari 2600.  Did some Vic20 and C64 but never really got (heavy) into PC gaming until recently.

Long story short we grew up.  Half of us are starting to hit our 40s.  Some of us have families, involved work schedules or just plain interesting lives.  The thing I loved about games in the past was they left alot to the imagination.  They were built to be semi dramatic and fun.  

What I personally noticed is that gaming started to become hyper realistic.  No longer was it just OK to save the world, or the princess or just to explore.  Now you had to have serious seedy backstory, anti-hero mechanics and a level of maturity that prevents me to enjoy some AAA games with my kids.  Its own popularity is to blame as well, for when we were playing games it was an undergroud niche pass time.  It was seen as quirky and geeky.  Now even my mom plays games.  Expanding the market to the masses just oversaturated the market.  All part of its evolution.

The future of gaming is now moving far enough away from what I enjoy that I dont follow it with the same enthusiasm.  I'll always be interested and probably try the latest and greatest but I'm smart enough to know I wont stick with it.  The silver lining for me is now I get to go back and enjoy some of the great titles of the past that I didnt get to play.  With all this twitch / action combat MMO themes going on recently, it feels really good to sit back and thoroughly enjoy EverQuest (as I didnt get to play it at launch).  It really is a unique game that caters to what I look for in an RPG.  Looking back I find it odd (and saddened) that no one really took it further.

Even with the this talk (buzz word) of emergent gameplay and sandbox, I dont believe it will deliver the level of interaction I interpret to be fun.  Am I mad at the developers or the market?  What for?  They are just catering to their audience.  I just chalk up the memories of growing up during the golden age of gaming reiving the past with emulators (now I can play Super Nintenodo on my phone) and such.

Who knows, maybe one day a small niche developer might actually create a throw back RPG of my heyday of which I would thoroughly enjoy.

You start by saying "we grew up", and then you go on a long run of how games changed and how you still enjoy the old games on emulators, and how you remember the "golden years of gaming" (meaning that these aren't).

Have you considered re-evaluating your stance, that "we grew up"?

Several people here start by saying "we grew up", and then go on about how gaming has changed.

Come on! Can't you even remember the statement from the beginning of your post to when you begin countering it? Maybe senility is the real culprit here :)

You have to be more aware of what it is you have an opinion on. Do you still get that feeling you did back then now and then? If so, then maybe it isn't you, because some new games can still do it to you. Do you feel the same when you go back to the old games, and it is so long ago, that it is almost like starting again?

If both of these conditions are true, then it is the evolvement of games, not necessarily you, who changed fundamentally.

Of course we don't experience the world as we did when we were kids, but still, I believe a big part of the lost feeling is to blame on the games.

Originally posted by Rasputin

Several people here start by saying "we grew up", and then go on about how gaming has changed.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Rasputin

Several people here start by saying "we grew up", and then go on about how gaming has changed.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

They stated "we grew up" as number one and only, followed by a punctuation. That seemed pretty exclusive to me.

Great thread.  I am really enjoying the intelligent, different perspectives.

Some have said EQ has not changed.  On one side I agree.  Its (for lack of a better term) grind + get stuff + progress + rinse repeat.  But I ask further isn't that the core of ANY RPG?  Perhaps that is what I grew up on, but it is something I happen to like.

Speaking to those looking for something different... what would be some of your ideas?  I'm curious.

In terms of Kinect (having one), its a great technology.  Removes the need of the controller.  unfortunately the tracking technology is not up to par ruining the experience.  When that catches up then I agree we could have a new way to experience an RPG that I'd actually be interested in.

Originally posted by Jackdog
I think I might be burned out on the  MMO genre. Still enjoying my RPG's and FPS's and not much have changed about them in the last 20 or so years. Turning point for me was when I realized there is nothing difficult about a MMO, just need to devote lots of time and you too can be "that guy"

That is the whole point of the RPG.  The "challenge" was never skill based but time based.  How much of it were you willing to invest to see all of the content.  That's the aspect of RPGs that I love thus I want it stretched out as long as possible with as much as possible to do.  Just dont force me down a pre-determined path and allow me to complete things out of order.

That entire concept is gone now.  RPGs have been reduced to 'action games' that allow you to flip some bits to increase particular attributes.  Its a completely different game design.  The minute you introduce skill you need something exciting and interesting to fight.  Its much easier to have a long time-based game (built on growth) than to have a long skill-based game.

Gamers today lack the patience to enjoy a true RPG so developers don't create them anymore.

I was grown up when the first computer games were developed. I was an adult when the first PC was released, I was old when the first MMORPG came out.

In too many of these threads people assume that - because they were young when they played their first game - other players would have been young too. Wrong.

Loads of people 10 or 20 years ago experienced their first computer game, their first MMORPG as adult - with job, wife and kids and all that jazz.