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MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Ballancing and bugs

19 posts found
  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8563

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  11/16/12 2:59:10 AM#1

There is something totally wrong with the way that Arenanet tries to ballance the game..

 

There are long lists of known class bugs on the official forums.  And as long as they havent all been cleared, its no use of ballancing at all.  Because repairing those bugs will change a classes situation totally.

 

On top of that nerfing a single skills damage with 50% doesn't sound like a ballance fix, but like an incompetent developer that only wants to stop the whining from 7 other classes about that skill...

 

There are so few class bug fixes, while many seem to be quite easy, that i highly dopubt there is more then one Dev doing the bug fixing as a part time job.

 

My bet is they are all concentrating on new content, as that is how they expect to earn most money.

 

 

Yes, i still love the game, but i have allways said its not all gold and glory..  But this is a part of the development they really need to improve on, if they want to have enough people left to seel their expansions too.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

11/16/12 3:30:28 AM#2
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

There is something totally wrong with the way that Arenanet tries to ballance the game..

 

There are long lists of known class bugs on the official forums.  And as long as they havent all been cleared, its no use of ballancing at all.  Because repairing those bugs will change a classes situation totally.

Around 20-50 in each class forum, yes. They don't really care though and rather fix some graphical glitches or animations.

On top of that nerfing a single skills damage with 50% doesn't sound like a ballance fix, but like an incompetent developer that only wants to stop the whining from 7 other classes about that skill...

You mad about the Thief nerf? Frankly, thieves had it comming, they are way too overpowered. Some dev must ahve had a huge hard on for thief making them this unbalanced.

There are so few class bug fixes, while many seem to be quite easy, that i highly dopubt there is more then one Dev doing the bug fixing as a part time job.

There is only one person doing the fixes, he does it one class at a time it seems. This time around it was Engineer who got most of his attention.

Incompetent and sloppy is all i have to say for how they supposedly fix the game. 

 

My bet is they are all concentrating on new content, as that is how they expect to earn most money.

Naturally it's only about the money.

That is exactly why they introduce new Store items at every "event" they make. This time around the drops from the "event" are already available in the new Gem Store chests.

Other events you needed Keys for the chests. It's all about money not about you or the game.

 

Yes, i still love the game, but i have allways said its not all gold and glory..  But this is a part of the development they really need to improve on, if they want to have enough people left to seel their expansions too.

 

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  Mahavishnu

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/17/12
Posts: 333

11/16/12 3:41:13 AM#3

Hm,

 

first I thought, that you think the thief is overpowered. And you want Anet to fis that. But then I read the next post, so maybe you are annoyed, because they nerfed the thief.

So what do you want?

Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1272

11/16/12 5:30:12 AM#4

They're pretty good as far as MMO devs go, but TBH this is why I'd never consider being a "serious" PvPer in the GW series. Their balancing team often looks completely clueless. The community often has better balancing ideas and posts them on the forums, but nah, who cares what those guys think.

According to Peters, they've got two guys in their balance team. Two guys? I think it's even less than what GW1 had two years ago.

  taus01

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 1419

11/16/12 6:17:21 AM#5
Originally posted by Scalpless

They're pretty good as far as MMO devs go, but TBH this is why I'd never consider being a "serious" PvPer in the GW series. Their balancing team often looks completely clueless. The community often has better balancing ideas and posts them on the forums, but nah, who cares what those guys think.

According to Peters, they've got two guys in their balance team. Two guys? I think it's even less than what GW1 had two years ago.

They indeed have 2 people working on class related bug fixes. Here is the official quote:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/professions/ranger/General-Patch-Discussion-merged/page/3

There are >500 skills in this game, 480 traits, and 2 designers working on this. Even then often we are bottle necked by other issues. I’m not going to say we are not working on these things, nor can I say there are things we could have changed but just ran out of time on, but this was a patch that contained ranger improvements and it will not be the last one that does so. Maybe you want more than honesty but that is what I currently have to offer.

"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1272

11/16/12 7:12:32 AM#6

I doubt their designers are working on bug fixes. The bug fix guys are likely a separate team. The designers are working on balance changes. Both groups have been way too slow.

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8563

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  11/16/12 8:55:52 AM#7
Originally posted by taus01
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

There is something totally wrong with the way that Arenanet tries to ballance the game..

 

There are long lists of known class bugs on the official forums.  And as long as they havent all been cleared, its no use of ballancing at all.  Because repairing those bugs will change a classes situation totally.

Around 20-50 in each class forum, yes. They don't really care though and rather fix some graphical glitches or animations.

On top of that nerfing a single skills damage with 50% doesn't sound like a ballance fix, but like an incompetent developer that only wants to stop the whining from 7 other classes about that skill...

You mad about the Thief nerf? Frankly, thieves had it comming, they are way too overpowered. Some dev must ahve had a huge hard on for thief making them this unbalanced.

I am not mad about the thief nerf, they had it comming, but they nerf single skills instead of ballancing, they made a single overpowered skill totally useless with this nerf.. Where is the ballance in that.  When you ballance things you need to look at things as a whole, and not at the single aspects.   there is enough information on the official forums that explein the ballance problems between those classes. Why didnt they even try to use that information.

And yes, thief is one of my 8 classes.

There are so few class bug fixes, while many seem to be quite easy, that i highly dopubt there is more then one Dev doing the bug fixing as a part time job.

There is only one person doing the fixes, he does it one class at a time it seems. This time around it was Engineer who got most of his attention.

Incompetent and sloppy is all i have to say for how they supposedly fix the game. 

The engineer did not actually get the attention it needed, so many buggs left untouched and the importent things they didnt touch with this patch.. Now the engineer prolly needs to wayt for months till they get the attention they need.

 

My bet is they are all concentrating on new content, as that is how they expect to earn most money.

Naturally it's only about the money.

That is exactly why they introduce new Store items at every "event" they make. This time around the drops from the "event" are already available in the new Gem Store chests.

Other events you needed Keys for the chests. It's all about money not about you or the game.

 

Yes, i still love the game, but i have allways said its not all gold and glory..  But this is a part of the development they really need to improve on, if they want to have enough people left to seel their expansions too.

 

 

In the end this is the first time i feel truely dissapointed about Arenanet, because their ballancing has no structure at all.  This needs to improve, and needs to improve soon.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 1900

Posts deleted: 12589457

11/16/12 9:46:26 AM#8

With the recent patch, Anet has shown again that they are way out of touch with their own product and customers/community.

They seem to have absolutely no clue about the state of several classes or how to handle some general systems of the game. Traits, skills,  economy, loot...everything is SO allover the place in this game. Broken stuff (DR) getting patched into the game and is left in place for weeks.

Communication varies from being nonexistant to being outright ignorant. That is, they jump into topics to infract people left and right but can't seem to find the time to actually take note of what a thread is all about. Several pages of threads concerning month old bugs in class defining abilities or regarding lag problems on Anet's side went on without acknowledgement forever. No PTS, no patch notes in advance.

One day some poster by the way mentioned a necro-bug when suddenly a dev showed up, posting something like "oh, thanks for reporting that bug, i'll look into it"...how the heck did he manage to hit this particular posting but miss the gigaton of other threads about necro-bugs going on for month??

I hate to say it (been waiting for GW2 forever myself) and i'm usually no doomprophet, but this piece will go down the drain if they don't start to fix some basics and start to act like professionals.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

11/16/12 9:53:14 AM#9
Originally posted by Volgore

With the recent patch, Anet has shown again that they are way out of touch with their own product and customers/community.

They seem to have absolutely no clue about the state of several classes or how to handle some general systems of the game. Traits, skills,  economy, loot...everything is SO allover the place in this game. Broken stuff (DR) getting patched into the game and is left in place for weeks.

Communication varies from being nonexistant to being outright ignorant. That is, they jump into topics to infract people left and right but can't seem to find the time to actually take note of what a thread is all about. Several pages of threads concerning month old bugs in class defining abilities or regarding lag problems on Anet's side went on without acknowledgement forever. No PTS, no patch notes in advance.

One day some poster by the way mentioned a necro-bug when suddenly a dev showed up, posting something like "oh, thanks for reporting that bug, i'll look into it"...how the heck did he manage to hit this particular posting but miss the gigaton of other threads about necro-bugs going on for month??

I hate to say it (been waiting for GW2 forever myself) and i'm usually no doomprophet, but this piece will go down the drain if they don't start to fix some basics and start to act like professionals.

Actually, they do know. They stated over and over that they collect data about damage, etc in game and will USE THAT for skill rebalancing - no t people's complaints but actual data. It is how they ban bots, etc.

 

The problem I see, is the same posters are complaining that they didn't balance and when they do, based on actual data, people complain. Do you want balancing like Trion does? In Rift, people were complaining that Saboteurs were OP in the first month, but they were a glass cannon. Still, Trion listened to people and nerfed the build that it was totally useless.

 

I think A.Net is doing what they feel is right, that is professional. Too bad customers don't act professional too.

 

I am still trying out the patch to see if I feel they did a disservice to the professions I am currently playing. I have no opinion since the patch is still too new.

 

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  grimal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/11/05
Posts: 1842

11/16/12 10:01:00 AM#10

OP -

Do you still consider this the best MMORPG since EQ?

Release a game with a very large established fanbase from 10+ years of bnet history when the market was still emerging and the casual base had not yet been established, thus ripe for harvesting a momentious self perpetuating playerbase people never leave because they have X hours invested in their characters, and their friends and everyone else plays anyway. Not discounting Blizzard quality... but WoW's success is as much about perfect timing as it is quality, if not more so. - Derros

  Volgore

Tipster

Joined: 6/15/08
Posts: 1900

Posts deleted: 12589457

11/16/12 10:02:24 AM#11
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Volgore

With the recent patch, Anet has shown again that they are way out of touch with their own product and customers/community.

They seem to have absolutely no clue about the state of several classes or how to handle some general systems of the game. Traits, skills,  economy, loot...everything is SO allover the place in this game. Broken stuff (DR) getting patched into the game and is left in place for weeks.

Communication varies from being nonexistant to being outright ignorant. That is, they jump into topics to infract people left and right but can't seem to find the time to actually take note of what a thread is all about. Several pages of threads concerning month old bugs in class defining abilities or regarding lag problems on Anet's side went on without acknowledgement forever. No PTS, no patch notes in advance.

One day some poster by the way mentioned a necro-bug when suddenly a dev showed up, posting something like "oh, thanks for reporting that bug, i'll look into it"...how the heck did he manage to hit this particular posting but miss the gigaton of other threads about necro-bugs going on for month??

I hate to say it (been waiting for GW2 forever myself) and i'm usually no doomprophet, but this piece will go down the drain if they don't start to fix some basics and start to act like professionals.

Actually, they do know. They stated over and over that they collect data about damage, etc in game and will USE THAT for skill rebalancing - no t people's complaints but actual data. It is how they ban bots, etc.

 

The problem I see, is the same posters are complaining that they didn't balance and when they do, based on actual data, people complain. Do you want balancing like Trion does? In Rift, people were complaining that Saboteurs were OP in the first month, but they were a glass cannon. Still, Trion listened to people and nerfed the build that it was totally useless.

 

I think A.Net is doing what they feel is right, that is professional. Too bad customers don't act professional too.

 

I am still trying out the patch to see if I feel they did a disservice to the professions I am currently playing. I have no opinion since the patch is still too new.

 

I get your point...but then there are i.e.  so many traits broken, not working or only halfway working that i dont buy the "they collect the data, they adjust classes accordingly, everyone on the forum is just complaining"  phrase this time.

  botrytis

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2445

11/16/12 10:05:49 AM#12

As I said, I am reserving judgement rather than being rash and lashing out. The latter seems to be more common now-a-days and the former is lost in the Mists of time.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  User Deleted
11/16/12 10:21:07 AM#13
Originally posted by Mahavishnu

Hm,

 

first I thought, that you think the thief is overpowered. And you want Anet to fis that. But then I read the next post, so maybe you are annoyed, because they nerfed the thief.

So what do you want?

I've been one of the biggest advocates for this title on this website and I play the least played class in the game. I too have felt the problems of the bugs with the classes not being addressed properly (all three scout classes have issues big ones right now) scout classes = medium (or previously called leather) armor. I let them know my disappointment on their forums about how they didn't seem to care that our targeting on two kits were very big issues with engineers (there's actually a long long laundry list of issues) but they ignored those problems entirely, but they sure got those chests in the store...that's priority one you know smh.

Engi is my main and instead of addressing the problems in the two posts they had us add our voices to in their forums (one was items we would like to see, the other is problems we're having with the class like targeting, kits, imbalances, inconsistencies) we got nerfs and underwater combat fixes. That doesn't help us when we're on land fighting in Orr.

There's this sense that Anet is ignoring their players more and more, It's like they suddenly stopped reading the forums (the devs themselves who handle the balance issues) because they certainly haven't touched the long list of problems that the engineer class has had since BWE3 and yes I reported the bugs long long ago using the ingame reporting feature, the online support feature and in the forums. One of the has to reach Anet's devs at some point.

 

  MosesZD

Novice Member

Joined: 2/10/12
Posts: 1407

11/16/12 10:28:39 AM#14
Originally posted by Scalpless

They're pretty good as far as MMO devs go, but TBH this is why I'd never consider being a "serious" PvPer in the GW series. Their balancing team often looks completely clueless. The community often has better balancing ideas and posts them on the forums, but nah, who cares what those guys think.

According to Peters, they've got two guys in their balance team. Two guys? I think it's even less than what GW1 had two years ago.

 

Sorry, but this MMO isn't my first rodeo.    I've seen this same PvP BS fest time-and-time again by MMO players and, in the end, they're just a bunch of whiners who pursue some mythical 'balance' issue as if "tanks" and "infantry" and "airpower" should all balance.    

 

In the end, what we see in MMO after MMO is competing groups of 'PvP balance whiners' presenting opposite and condridictory (and often fundamentaly unsound) cases drawn from extremes.   Group A likes Person A (because it works for their class/build).  Group B likes Person B (because it works for their class/build).  

 

A & B are at opposite ends of spectrum.   Flame war ensues, game goes on.

 

In the meantime, the devs have actual numbers they data mine and adjust to them.    Adjustments made (or made) in a patch and the whine-fest starts all over again.

 

I'm just happy they're making the PvP adjustments different than the PvE adjustments.   Placating the PvP whiners almost always wrecks PvE for one (or more) classes.

  SuprGamerX

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/05/09
Posts: 538

11/16/12 10:34:08 AM#15
What was that famous Anet quote already? It sounded something like this right..."It'll be out when it's ready" , something like that.   You know you srewed up somewhere when a game needs balancing once released.  This game should be put back in beta testing instead of "released" , what a joke , and people actually thought this was to be the game to save us all? Pretty pathetic , but that's to be expected when you got a NCSoft sticker slapped on the cover box of the game.  Good going!!  Now I hope you naive sons of ... learn from this now , NEVER trust anything related to NCSoft , EVER!!!
  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/16/12 11:20:32 AM#16
While there are definately balance issues and bugs they should not prevent further content progress unless they are gamebreaking for a big number of the population. To be honest, the balance in the game is pretty good for the point it is in its lifecycle.


  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3443

The problem with censorship is ********

11/16/12 11:22:28 AM#17
Originally posted by SuprGamerX
What was that famous Anet quote already? It sounded something like this right..."It'll be out when it's ready" , something like that.   You know you srewed up somewhere when a game needs balancing once released.  This game should be put back in beta testing instead of "released" , what a joke , and people actually thought this was to be the game to save us all? Pretty pathetic , but that's to be expected when you got a NCSoft sticker slapped on the cover box of the game.  Good going!!  Now I hope you naive sons of ... learn from this now , NEVER trust anything related to NCSoft , EVER!!!

Every mmo that has come out with pvp needs balancing once its released and usually thereafter for a long time to come. This particular mmo is one of the very few that is decently balanced at release.

 

Look up information before you post, NCSoft has nothing to do with what goes into the game.


  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8563

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

 
OP  11/16/12 5:01:02 PM#18
Originally posted by grimal

OP -

Do you still consider this the best MMORPG since EQ?

I said best MMORPG since WoW...

 

Because since EQ, also DAoC and WoW might have been more fun and polished experiences then current GW2...

 

Never tought the game would be the 2nd comming, even predicted many of the flaws, but it still is a damned good game for ¨people that love fast paced combat and events.

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations)
Currently playing : The Elder Scrolls Online and Wildstar

  Scalpless

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1272

11/17/12 4:40:42 PM#19
Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by Scalpless

They're pretty good as far as MMO devs go, but TBH this is why I'd never consider being a "serious" PvPer in the GW series. Their balancing team often looks completely clueless. The community often has better balancing ideas and posts them on the forums, but nah, who cares what those guys think.

According to Peters, they've got two guys in their balance team. Two guys? I think it's even less than what GW1 had two years ago.

 

Sorry, but this MMO isn't my first rodeo.    I've seen this same PvP BS fest time-and-time again by MMO players and, in the end, they're just a bunch of whiners who pursue some mythical 'balance' issue as if "tanks" and "infantry" and "airpower" should all balance.    

 

In the end, what we see in MMO after MMO is competing groups of 'PvP balance whiners' presenting opposite and condridictory (and often fundamentaly unsound) cases drawn from extremes.   Group A likes Person A (because it works for their class/build).  Group B likes Person B (because it works for their class/build).  

 

A & B are at opposite ends of spectrum.   Flame war ensues, game goes on.

 

In the meantime, the devs have actual numbers they data mine and adjust to them.    Adjustments made (or made) in a patch and the whine-fest starts all over again.

 

I'm just happy they're making the PvP adjustments different than the PvE adjustments.   Placating the PvP whiners almost always wrecks PvE for one (or more) classes.

I don't even PvP much and this patch was clearly designed with PvP in mind. They nerfed Mesmers and Thieves. Mesmers and Thieves! It's like nerfing the minion Necro gets from Reanimator. Both professions were already pathetic compared to everyone else in late-game PvE, but now they're almost useless. When you've got an AoE damage skill with a 1-2 sec delay that misses if a single mob dies or blocks or evades or is invincible or obstructed, can get killed before it does anything and is a part of your class mechanic, you start wondering why you're even trying.

Oh, by the way, after this miraculous patch, defensive skills like iDefender don't work if your opponent is blocking or evades. It's not just a "bad" update, it's a "what on Earth were they thinking" update. So no, even though I briefly mentioned PvP in my previous post, PvP whiners have very little to do with how stupid this whole thing is.