Trending Games | Pirate101 | ArcheAge | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn | Wasteland 2

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,859,238 Users Online:0
Games:742  Posts:6,244,361
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Phoenix Edition LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Project Blackout Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » When will Developers realize that they are mainly to blame for the "Rush Mentality"?

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
25 posts found
  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6034

 
OP  11/15/12 5:03:11 PM#1

When will Developers realize that they are mainly to blame for the Rush Mentality?

This poor game design over the past few years really starting to irritate me.

When you build your MMO, to be more rewarding, more fun, more features at a MAX LEVEL than at a lower level, PEOPLE WILL OBVIOUSLY RUSH TO CAP.

Come on, developers,,, when will to comprehend this?

For example:

If game has a world split into zone level ranged.
level 1 - has starter area. ( total 1 zone)
level 5 - has starter area plus 2 new zones (total 3 zones)
Level 10 has starter area, plus level 5 area, plus 2 new level 10 zones. (total 5 zones)
etc.
the Lower the player character level, the less area is available for them to explore. The level 10 and up, gets full access to the game world. While the level 1 only has the starter zone to play in.

Well with that in mind, WHY WOULD I WANT TO STAY A LOW LEVEL WHEN MAX LEVEL GET MORE FREEDOM?
seem like Bad design to me.

another example:
Lets say I am level 60 on my character class (Mesmer), and have all the abilities for my Mesmer as a level 60 ( the current max level). Been Max level and using these skills for a year now. Then a new Expansion comes out that increases the max level to 70. Now my Mesmer has brand new set of skills for 60-70.

Well in this situation, WHY WOULD I WANT TO SLOWLY TAKE MY TIME, WHEN A LEVEL 70 HAS ACCESS TO NEW MESMER SKILLS TO USE WHILE THE SLOWLY LEVELING 60 MESMER IS USING THE SAME SKILLS THEY BEEN USE TO FOR A YEAR NOW?

With a design like this, I am more motivated to get to the new max level than to continue my time playing around with old content of level 60.

and that goes to my last example.

When Content is gated by levels. Such as Instanced PvP games, Raids, Dungeons, Events, Housing, Spells, whatever.

When its gated, and I am prevented from doing that certain feature because I dont reach the level requirement, that is more motivation to Speed Leveling rather than taking my time.
If I like Raiding, but Raiding is only at max level, than I need to get to max level as soon as possible to play that feature I enjoy.

Again,, BAD GAME DESIGN.

But MMO developers continue to do this.
 

  Redemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1058

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

11/15/12 5:09:43 PM#2

 The majority of games are gated by levels, or mechanics similar to levels. The only ones who can claim they are not gated by levels are instead gated by difficulty, party size, equipment, time allocation ... etc etc.

 

 Progression is a fact of gaming, its more obvious in a level based game but even in those without a number hovering next to your name progression exsists. In essence your post is claiming progression based gaming ( I'm playing fast and loose here) is bad game design. The devil's advocate in me challenges you to propose a system with any amount of staying power that isn't in any way a progressive game.

 

Progression makes games worth playing.

 

  Sandbox

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/23/06
Posts: 309

11/15/12 5:10:28 PM#3

The question should not be how to design around the levels, the question should be if we really need levels?

Until developers don't think outside the box we will get the same old game, just with different skins.

  MMOExposed

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/17/10
Posts: 6034

 
OP  11/15/12 5:12:52 PM#4
Progression is progesssion. Gating is not.
Gating content is just bad game design. I have ideas of my own. So I know its possible. Just developers never seem to think out the box now days.

  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/15/12 5:18:27 PM#5
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Progression is progesssion. Gating is not.
Gating content is just bad game design. I have ideas of my own. So I know its possible. Just developers never seem to think out the box now days.

 

I think that's a really good point.  We all know why they have gating, but I think you're right, and it may do more harm than good.

 

To use GW2 as an example, they've been doing this upward level scaling, with some of their update content, where everyone gets boosted to 80.  Leveling up is still rewarding (stats, traits, equipment bonuses, etc) but it's not so vital that there's a need to do it ASAP, just to be able to play the game.

 

It'd be interesting if they started scaling everyone, in every zone, to whatever level the zone is.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  Redemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1058

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

11/15/12 5:20:17 PM#6
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Progression is progesssion. Gating is not.
Gating content is just bad game design. I have ideas of my own. So I know its possible. Just developers never seem to think out the box now days.

 Gating is a key part of progression, certainly in a Mmo. You must have incentive and gates to ensure the customers continue playing for X amount of time. In most cases the gating is poorly done, that I will agree with you on, but gating is a nessecary mechanic within a progression based game. There are possibilities for dealing with a "level" game, but not for removing the progression in games ( certainly mmo's). In skill based games the gate is the time required to perfect the skill, in "skill" ala Axe is currently 126/200 the gate is the skills progression. In games devoid of those mechanics the gate falls to gear or party size, so when you break the systems down that the majority of games run on .. it falls to progression. Whether that be levels, or any of my above examples its really the same thing. The gating still exsists, the progression is still the point of the game. I don't find it bad game design at all, in fact I think there are several studies which prove the typical system is perfect for humans beings, thus the reason these systems are so engrossing now-a-days.

 

  Quirhid

Elite Member

Joined: 1/28/05
Posts: 5544

Correcting wrongs on the Internet...

11/15/12 5:50:53 PM#7

You might want to think of the benefits of what you call "gating" and why things were done this way in the first place. If you do things differently what changes and what do you need to consider.

And "there is no advantage to gating" is not an acceptable answer.

I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 766

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

11/15/12 9:05:16 PM#8

Though a system of progression is enherit for an MMORPG and most gaming at large, I do feel a lot of developers are too end game focused.

 

And, what I mean is that most MMO's I see set their sites on the next big expansion, new advanced class, high levels items, or skill sets and all together new features added to their games for the benefit of those who have run out of things to do.

 

I think it would be better for developers to hold off on releasing the new cap and everything that comes with it, and pay more attention to revamping or droping all-together things that have become antiquated.

 

What I see as a good common example:

Low level Crafting and material collection.

When developers first release an MMO with a crafting system it is usually an important thing to take part in from start to finish (first level to level cap). This is because the materials that can be obtained from the very starting levels still have high degree of application, and thusly value, in an environment where there is not such a huge difference between the make up of (then considered to be) high level items and low level items.

 

But, a few expansions later, developers release new higher level materials instead of finding interesting ways to add more use to low level materials. This makes low level materials useless to the end game, and also makes the areas they are found in places to merely pass through.

 

And, because there is this bigger push to cap out in in order to stay in the game in a useful way, the materials don't even remain useful at low levels, because newbs don't spend much time at lower levels or in low level areas. So not only do newbs have nothing to offer in the way of combat aid to high levels but they can't even develope a level of comfort where they are at in their game because they can't build anything close to substantial wealth for their level.

 

So, you end up with a crafting system that is  almost completely unused at lower levels. This brings up the question; Why even have crafting available before mid level? But, the issue I see with something like this is that the average developer will just push the end game envelope, and not go back and tighten up things like this before pressing foward.

 

They could make it so low level materials will always have value at all levels of game play. And, they could make it to where the lower level materials can only be obtained in low level areas. This would always give high levels a reason to go back to starting areas frequently and stay in touch with the new players. Say maybe providing them with a job of collection, paid with aids towards power-leveling?

 

But, by-and-large developers ignore what they have made once they make it. That is what i mean when I say developers are for the most part too end game focused. This is just one of many examples and one of many ways in which starting players are increasingly playing a very different game then high levels are. The more the gap is widened without filling in the space the more disconnected the end game is from the first day newb. The less help they get as well. and for that the slow inevitable death of a game do to less new players (a game doesn't have to be shut down to die, it can be populated by a very small, high paying, tight nit, elitist player base for years before it actually closers it's doors. a game can die long before it is no longer available).

 

 

 

 


Place Holder Signature.

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

11/15/12 9:13:10 PM#9
Originally posted by MMOExposed
 

because it's all about money.   the trend of mass exodus from games in 1-3 months causes investors and developers to create hype and go for box sales.  im not saying all developers don't care about the product.  but investors care about the return.  it's been shown that creating a long lasting product hasn't worked.  so why wouldnt they create games that last for a few months?  grab the quick cash the go free to play.  hit both player bases with the same product.  and maximize profits.

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Redemp

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1058

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

11/15/12 10:35:06 PM#10

 You also need to consider that most of "us" don't want recontent rehashed, we don't want old recipes updated. We don't want the same crafting recipes updated, and we don't want a dungeon recycled to be run at end game. We want new content constantly and we want it now. So instead of beating around the bush, thats exactly what we get. New content , new levels, new classes, new skills, and completely new end game areas.

 We are a progressive species, it only stands to reason we want the same in our games. Valid complaints can be made for the implentation of this progression but we certainly can't call game developers bad or lazy for it. We are to blame, not because its choice, but because progression defines us. That's getting down to the bare bones of the issue of course, we could always keep it simplistic and scratch our heads as to why the same model of games keeps getting created and purchased by the millions of gamers world-wide; while gnashing our teeth that we've been here before and done this already and why can't the developers give us something new that breaks the progression mold. I prefer to be realistic about it though , its not going to happen and the few games that do break this mold won't be a blip on the radar compared to the games that hold to it.

 

 

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 766

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

11/16/12 12:33:54 AM#11
Originally posted by Redemp

 You also need to consider that most of "us" don't want recontent rehashed, we don't want old recipes updated. We don't want the same crafting recipes updated, and we don't want a dungeon recycled to be run at end game. We want new content constantly and we want it now. So instead of beating around the bush, thats exactly what we get. New content , new levels, new classes, new skills, and completely new end game areas.

 We are a progressive species, it only stands to reason we want the same in our games. Valid complaints can be made for the implentation of this progression but we certainly can't call game developers bad or lazy for it. We are to blame, not because its choice, but because progression defines us. That's getting down to the bare bones of the issue of course, we could always keep it simplistic and scratch our heads as to why the same model of games keeps getting created and purchased by the millions of gamers world-wide; while gnashing our teeth that we've been here before and done this already and why can't the developers give us something new that breaks the progression mold. I prefer to be realistic about it though , its not going to happen and the few games that do break this mold won't be a blip on the radar compared to the games that hold to it.

 

 

 

By this reply I see that I missed making my own point in the way I intended to.

 

So i will be more clear....

 

It is not even that they tend to focus on new end-game content over tightening up what already exists that bothers me; So much as it is, that a lot of developers don't go back over what already exists very often, in order to bring it into sync with new content. And, that creates a social and start-to-end-game gap bigger then the rich/poor divide in china (that's a poor crack at china but relevant anologically).

 

And, i can also think of a game that has broken this mold and holds the guinness book of world records for most prolificly updated game and most popular free to play MMORPG and it's been running for over a decade with 200mil registered users and over 6mil active subscribers...wait for it...Runescape (sorry people but this is a harp I can never stop playing, as that game has the single most dynamic content and involved game play on the whole of any MMO out there, and most of the problems brought up on these forums...as a runescape player...I don't have these issues).


Place Holder Signature.

  Rossboss

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 241

11/16/12 12:38:13 AM#12

Devs do this to accomidate to our societal requirements on immediate gratification in the form of shiney things.

 

Most people have this preconcieved notion that they will get more and cooler stuff at level caps. They are true for the most part. Very few players now stop and smell the roses along the way.

I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  simmihi

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/10
Posts: 515

11/16/12 12:49:26 AM#13
Originally posted by Rossboss

Devs do this to accomidate to our societal requirements on immediate gratification in the form of shiney things.

 

Most people have this preconcieved notion that they will get more and cooler stuff at level caps. They are true for the most part. Very few players now stop and smell the roses along the way.

Yea, it's perfectly normal these days, most people are goal oriented, and are trained to think goal-oriented, in school, at work etc. Higher level = better stuff was the deal since MMO's started, the gating was always there, the difference is made only by the tedium of gaining "levels". Considering the way of thinking which I've described above, the players tend to pick fast journeys and not the lengthy, tedious ones - "i want it done and i want it done fast". As a dev, you lose too much if your game does not adapt to that. If people would not want the rush mentality, Vanguard would have 5mil subs.

  Rossboss

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 241

11/16/12 1:12:51 AM#14
Originally posted by simmihi
Originally posted by Rossboss

Devs do this to accomidate to our societal requirements on immediate gratification in the form of shiney things.

 

Most people have this preconcieved notion that they will get more and cooler stuff at level caps. They are true for the most part. Very few players now stop and smell the roses along the way.

Yea, it's perfectly normal these days, most people are goal oriented, and are trained to think goal-oriented, in school, at work etc. Higher level = better stuff was the deal since MMO's started, the gating was always there, the difference is made only by the tedium of gaining "levels". Considering the way of thinking which I've described above, the players tend to pick fast journeys and not the lengthy, tedious ones - "i want it done and i want it done fast". As a dev, you lose too much if your game does not adapt to that. If people would not want the rush mentality, Vanguard would have 5mil subs.

I would totally play Vanguard if it didn't have a monthly subscription, it sounds like I could spend months and months just playing with the advancement system. I'd pay for expansions but I'd rather not pay $180 a year for an amount of content equal to a single player rpg game like Dragon Age or Morrowind.

I played WoW up until WotLK, played RoM for 2 years and now Rift.
I am F2P player. I support games when I feel they deserve my money and I want the items enough.
I don't troll, and I don't take kindly to trolls.

  zekeofev

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/11
Posts: 224

11/16/12 1:41:36 AM#15

Games tend to give greater and greater per time spent rewards the higher level you are. That is what causes the rush.

 

A quest line that give 10 silver in WoW at low levels gives many many times that amount in higher levels.

Games like Rift have lots of content all at the upper end including an extra power leveling system post max level.

 

The key, then, is to give equal incentives to do side quests and explore at low levels compared to high levels. However I think games that encourage this will be less popular to the casual audiances most MMO developers are chasing. So it ends up being a cyclical effect....

 

 

 

 

 

  Helleri

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/26/08
Posts: 766

“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.”- Henry Ford

11/16/12 8:15:51 PM#16

I don't think equal incentives to persue side-quest/story-lines and alternate ways of play can be given in streamlined MMO's (and streamlined MMO's seem to make up a chunk of the genre) for the most part. The reason being that it is counter-intuitive to the system of progression. Part of an MMO being streamlined is that any non-combat skill or activities, have their effectivness/ability to be oproficient in them, tied to ones overall level.

 

There are Games that are rather streamlined but tend to break away from this a bit like Lord of the Rings Online, and Runes of Magic (actually have not played this one in ages and sorta forget if it's like that, but i think it is). In which crafting appears to be it's own thing, fairly indipendant of  combat level.

 

There are other games like aika online that have been experimenting with this. While it's crafting system is tied to level (rather then having it's own level based on how much you do it), the newer fishing skill has it's own leveling system that goes up to 800/800. And the only complaint they get about it is that crafting is not also independant of combat level.

 

with this skill you will see plenty of nubs trying to max out fishing before they do much else so as to use the highest level fishing rewards to fund their rise through the game in the best way possible. You will also see maxed out characters doing it because they have done everything else.

 

But, I really think over all it is beneficial to with each new expansion take a break from that kind of updating to see how things are effected, then go back and bring older things into sync. Because, it's only the high levels in a game that has been expanded on several times that benefit. the low levels find that they have nothing to offer the game until they muscle through to gitting that bare minimum of being actually useful in combat. these low levels will one day be high levels, so I see it as important to work on refining older updates, even to the point of full re-vamps and removals or additions. If you don't you end up with an MMO that has a spectacular end-game that is not worth the effort to get to.

 

 


Place Holder Signature.

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3343

11/16/12 9:01:28 PM#17

my 2 cents..

     I was never into "new" shinies and bigger and better things..  I played for exploration and discovery.. FUN..  I think back to EQ way back when and how I played and what I looked foward to.. I looked for the hot fishing spots in the world.. New dungeons and landmarks to find..  Character progression didn't drive me.. Granted it might of been a neccessary evil in getting the better spells that allowed me to travel further into the world.. But I never felt gated or progressed..

      There are ways to change the MMO genre into non level progressons or gating.. The question is , do most of the customers want that tho?  Not everyone plays for the same reasons..  The Devs are just doing what the paying customers want.. This so reminds me of the EQ "beginning of the end".. When the devs started Montey Hall'ing the loot..  The game changed from a level based game to a loot oriented based game.. Once the shinies became the carrot,  All hell broke loose..

  Inf666

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 508

11/17/12 6:18:59 AM#18

Of course they realize it but its part of the business model.

They found out that they earn more money per time frame the shorter the game is. The 'rush' as you call it is especially desired.

What many gamers fail to understand is that the developers job is not to fullfil their dreams, but the dreams of the shareholders. And whats their dream? Maximizing the rate of return with as little risk as possible. I am pretty sure that the rate of return is highest in the year of the games release. That is why it would be better to have a game release every year rather than once every 10 years.

At the same time the developers do not want to lose their jobs. Creating an MMO that everyone plays for decades will make them jobless.

So the ideal game is a game that is consumed fast and then thrown away, has a high rate of return and has low risk.

Thats why you are seeing so much of the themepark 'rush' model lately. It will stay that way until either (from the perspective of the shareholders) a more successful model is found or the market parameters change.

---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/17/12 6:23:30 AM#19
Originally posted by MMOExposed


When you build your MMO, to be more rewarding, more fun, more features at a MAX LEVEL than at a lower level, PEOPLE WILL OBVIOUSLY RUSH TO CAP.

How do you explain people still rushing in GW1 and GW2 then?  I mean, you see the brick wall directly across the roadway up ahead of you, you see the road aiming right at it, who's really to blame for you standing on the accelerator the entire trip?

Your preconditions don't apply, yet they play the game the same way.

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

11/17/12 6:28:01 AM#20
Originally posted by Inf666

Of course they realize it but its part of the business model.

They found out that they earn more money per time frame the shorter the game is. The 'rush' as you call it is especially desired.

What many gamers fail to understand is that the developers job is not to fullfil their dreams, but the dreams of the shareholders. And whats their dream? Maximizing the rate of return with as little risk as possible. I am pretty sure that the rate of return is highest in the year of the games release. That is why it would be better to have a game release every year rather than once every 10 years.

At the same time the developers do not want to lose their jobs. Creating an MMO that everyone plays for decades will make them jobless.

So the ideal game is a game that is consumed fast and then thrown away, has a high rate of return and has low risk.

Thats why you are seeing so much of the themepark 'rush' model lately. It will stay that way until either (from the perspective of the shareholders) a more successful model is found or the market parameters change.

Cynical, but I think (essentially) accurate.   Specific points could be attacked :P

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

2 Pages 1 2 » Search