Originally posted by Anaba77

--- > here is the link and the text:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside

 

 

 

Head of Global Community

 

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

 

 

The answer to the question people are asking should be "Yes we will create a gear treadmill" or "No we will not create a gear treadmill". Instead, ANET says "Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" There is a huge difference and when someone is non committal, well, just prepare for something you may not like.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Except they already added power creep to satisfy the player needing progression.

Answer me, you reckon that crowd will be satisfied for months by the paltry progression between Exotic and Ascendant?

That worries me even more that a new item tier, the fact they are adding it to please those players they called "our most dedicated players" (sic), aka players that play 24/7 for a month and then quit.

And no need to bring infusion on me, that doesn't worry me at all, although it is a stupid way of creating challenge, it is like  making me play football with a leg behind my back or playing chess while keeping 3 balls in the air - sure it is more difficult but it adds nothing.

You know what infusion did for Guid Wars - it added that "wow,ouch" factorf first time you encoutered the mursaat/jades and after that was an annoyance that made you go do an infusion run everytime you acquired a new armor.

The sad part is that with the aditional power creep (and there was no new max stats item added in the entire GW1 life) even if you aren't infused you can slaughter the mursaat/jades (well maybe not the WiKs ones but those aren't the original) - you can slaughter the mob of mursaats that once created the tension of pursuit during the Ice Caves of Sorrow mission.

It isn't power creep. They're filling a power void. Ascended will be a little better than exotics, and legendaries will be (I think) a little better than ascended (could be similar... not sure)

 

 

You simply don't know how the game works. Legendaries were just for looks. They have the same stats as exotics. Once the patch that introduces ascended weapons goes live, they will be ajusted to be on par with Ascended in terms of stats. 

So, what you are complaining about is the grind you did to get your exotic and now another type of armor, that may or may not be easy to obtain has been inserted into the mix.

 

Remember what happen to the original exotic armors in GW1 after Nightfall came out. They took away the original prefix for the Prophecies armor and made it so you can add your own prefix - I had Exotic Bonelace on my Necro and it was converted to Exotic Cabalist. People were up in arms at the time also. But it was actually a good move, in hind sight.

 

Just need to put things in perspective....

How many times do I have to spell it out for you. I'm complaining that ANET isn't clear about their gear progression philo. Are they going to add more tiers of gear/upgrades in teh future. Will new content not be completable without FOTM gear? Their response to community outrage left the door open to go either way. I want a clear answer!

They did give a clear answer - just not the answer you wanted - I think and if I am wrong - SORRY.

 

They spelled it out as best as they could w/o giving away all the items in this patch coming out today.

"We don't intend to release new gear to chase EVERY 3 month, but we plan on releasing more progression content like this in the future" doesn't answer anything. Every 3 months leaves the door open for more gear to be added, but in longer time spans, more progression content like this leaves room for different ways of it being done: with gear stats that are compounded or sectioned off gear that progresses but is tied to particular content. 

It doen't answer anything. Its PR spin. 

That answer works for me.  Time will tell though.

My main concern is that they keep their philosophy of no gear treadmill.  It seems they are keeping with that and that is good.

Gear progression, or any progression, is not the same as a gear treadmil.  WoW, EQ2, and RIFT have gear treadmills.  GW2 does not.  It could be a little power creep, but again, that is not the same as gear treadmill.

While I still love GW1 I don't want them to use the exact same design philosophy or progression model.  They can't in fact because GW1 progression centered around Hero collection and kitting out.  That won't work in GW2.  I don't want to face a no progression wall over the next several years and I'm not sure how they can pull that off while keeping the treadmill out, so we'll see.  As of this point, I'm still happy.

edit: Expecting ANet, or any publisher, to tell you there long term plan, written in stone, so you can hold htem to it is patently ridiculous.  For one, no dev studio is going to do that.  Another, they can't or shouldn't.  Both Trion and ANet seem to listen and respond to their player base.  The games will evolve based on feedback and community input.  I doubt either company knows exactly where and how things will pan out over the years.  They may have a plan, but as we've seen from RIFT, that changes as they find things that work or don't.

Originally posted by Jeyhu
They answered the question, they aren't going to release new gear sets every few months.  So please, all the babies it's time for your nap now.

Every few months doesn't answer the actual concer. Will there be more gear later thats better than ascended? Will ascended gear be used as a key to actually complete new content after its all out? Will I be expected to do new content and have the rings and back pieces to even have a chance starting the new content? 

[mod edit]

It was a trend here on MMORPG.com about a year ago. If you noticed it doesn't have my GW2 character on it. Why because I haven't updated it in at least a year.

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by botrytis

So, what you are complaining about is the grind you did to get your exotic and now another type of armor, that may or may not be easy to obtain has been inserted into the mix.

 

Remember what happen to the original exotic armors in GW1 after Nightfall came out. They took away the original prefix for the Prophecies armor and made it so you can add your own prefix - I had Exotic Bonelace on my Necro and it was converted to Exotic Cabalist. People were up in arms at the time also. But it was actually a good move, in hind sight.

 

Just need to put things in perspective....

How many times do I have to spell it out for you. I'm complaining that ANET isn't clear about their gear progression philo. Are they going to add more tiers of gear/upgrades in teh future. Will new content not be completable without FOTM gear? Their response to community outrage left the door open to go either way. I want a clear answer!

His example isn't even valid.

In fact is armor became better, now that he could use an useful insignia instead of a +15 armor vs pierce insignia.

They won't give you a clear answer because that depends on how "their most dedicated players" feel about the progression in game.

When they get bored again because there is no progression and legendary items give no stats increase, what will Anet do?

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Jeyhu
They answered the question, they aren't going to release new gear sets every few months.  So please, all the babies it's time for your nap now.

Every few months doesn't answer the actual concer. Will there be more gear later thats better than ascended? Will ascended gear be used as a key to actually complete new content after its all out? Will I be expected to do new content and have the rings and back pieces to even have a chance starting the new content? 

Again, who bloody cares right now, I'm sure once they release a boxed expansion then ya, they'll most likely add a new level cap and with that comes gear.  Having the rings and back pieces won't take you years to aquire, and they aren't going to pump out this crazy hard content every few weeks, you'll have plenty of time to get those items.  Atm it's mainly for the new dungeon, and probably the hard mode combat coming in the future.  Seriously, go for a walk or bike ride, you need to relax.

Originally posted by Jeyhu

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Jeyhu
They answered the question, they aren't going to release new gear sets every few months.  So please, all the babies it's time for your nap now.

Every few months doesn't answer the actual concer. Will there be more gear later thats better than ascended? Will ascended gear be used as a key to actually complete new content after its all out? Will I be expected to do new content and have the rings and back pieces to even have a chance starting the new content? 

Again, who bloody cares right now, I'm sure once they release a boxed expansion then ya, they'll most likely add a new level cap and with that comes gear.  Having the rings and back pieces won't take you years to aquire, and they aren't going to pump out this crazy hard content every few weeks, you'll have plenty of time to get those items.  Atm it's mainly for the new dungeon, and probably the hard mode combat coming in the future.  Seriously, go for a walk or bike ride, you need to relax.

Its not about taking years to aquire, it about content locking and gear treadmilling. I was expecting GW2 to be an MMO version of GW1. If they content gate and gear treadmill, then its not an MMO version of GW1, its just like every other MMO on the market. Also, its 1:23 AM where I am.  

Originally posted by Jeyhu
Obviously Anet is trying to cater to as many fans as they can.  A lot of folks were getting bored because the progession stops and becomes a "skin collector" game.  To me I think it was fine as is, but I know of a quite a few that aren't.  Blame WoW or whatever for that type of mentality, but Anet is a business and out to make this game as accessible as they can since that is how you make commercially successful games instead of niche.

I wonder how many of the treadmill guys spent money in the gem store? Point is, every game that tries to compete with WoW fail. GW2 will be no different unless it doesn't try to compete with WoW. GW1 didn't and made ANET enough money to create GW2

Originally posted by xpiher

Their response to community outrage left the door open to go either way. I want a clear answer!

I doubt we will see one, but then... Thats sort of an answer anyway. Anet lost my 7 years of trust with the added gearlevel. I really don't care what they say now. Instead I will judge their game on what they produce. (Yes I know, this would have been the sensible thing to do all along.)

Currently I see no idea (for me) in putting time and/or money in GW2. The community is completely split and arguing all over the place. Even within guilds the members are arguing and saying things they will regret. And all we see from Anet is some poorly masked attempt at damagecontrol.

I will just give the game a look some time in the near future. If there was no treadmill added I won't have lost anything and can just get back in the game - If treadmill is in I will not have wasted time/money on something I dislike.

In the end I wonder how much this will hurt Anet: Pulling a "bait and switch" hurt FunCom a lot - Even to the extent that a lot of players simply skipped their next game. (Only based on FunCom's prior behaviour.)

I already got my moneys worth in GW2 so either way I hope that Anet will have a game that appeals to whichever kind of audience they end up wanting to please.

Originally posted by Halandir

Originally posted by xpiher

Their response to community outrage left the door open to go either way. I want a clear answer!

 

I doubt we will see one, but then... Thats sort of an answer anyway. Anet lost my 7 years of trust with the added gearlevel. I really don't care what they say now. Instead I will judge their game on what they produce. (Yes I know, this would have been the sensible thing to do all along.)

Currently I see no idea (for me) in putting time and/or money in GW2. The community is completely split and arguing all over the place. Even within guilds the members are arguing and saying things they will regret. And all we see from Anet is some poorly masked attempt at damagecontrol.

I will just give the game a look some time in the near future. If there was no treadmill added I won't have lost anything and can just get back in the game - If treadmill is in I will not have wasted time/money on something I dislike.

In the end I wonder how much this will hurt Anet: Pulling a "bait and switch" hurt FunCom a lot - Even to the extent that a lot of players simply skipped their next game. (Only based on FunCom's prior behaviour.)

I already got my moneys worth in GW2 so either way I hope that Anet will have a game that appeals to whichever kind of audience they end up wanting to please.

 

I'm glad I'm not the only one claiming a possible Funcom fiasco from this. Thats why i said a clear stance either way is the best thing that ANET can do right now. If they wait and people's assumption are right or wrong won't matter, the fact that people had to wait is going to piss off the people who were wrong, and rightfully so and there will be HELL to PAY

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

Originally posted by Anaba77

--- > here is the link and the text:

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside

 

 

 

Head of Global Community

 

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

 

 

The answer to the question people are asking should be "Yes we will create a gear treadmill" or "No we will not create a gear treadmill". Instead, ANET says "Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" There is a huge difference and when someone is non committal, well, just prepare for something you may not like.

It doesn't even matter.

Adding a new tier of gear is creating a gear treadmill, regardless what they said.

It is a question of how much grind - apparently is substancial since they need to spread it to give time to acquire them.

The goals shifted from acquiring exotic to acquiring ascended.

Of course apparently cosmetic progression doesn't seem to be enough anymore.

So what we have is that any player starting tomorrow will be farther away from max stats.

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

The answer to the question people are asking should be "Yes we will create a gear treadmill" or "No we will not create a gear treadmill". Instead, ANET says "Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" There is a huge difference and when someone is non committal, well, just prepare for something you may not like.

You will never get that sort of commitment out of them or any dev studio in their right mind.  Trion won't tell you what exactly will happen years down the road either becasue they don't know.  Maybe what they think works doesn't and they need to adjust accordingly.  That is one reason RIFT has been so successful, because Trion has changed directions as needed in response to their community.  ANet is wise to follow in this path.  It will piss off some people just like it does in RIFT, but overall the community is happier for it.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

The answer to the question people are asking should be "Yes we will create a gear treadmill" or "No we will not create a gear treadmill". Instead, ANET says "Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" There is a huge difference and when someone is non committal, well, just prepare for something you may not like.

You will never get that sort of commitment out of them or any dev studio in their right mind.  Trion won't tell you what exactly will happen years down the road either becasue they don't know.  Maybe what they think works doesn't and they need to adjust accordingly.  That is one reason RIFT has been so successful, because Trion has changed directions as needed in response to their community.  ANet is wise to follow in this path.  It will piss off some people just like it does in RIFT, but overall the community is happier for it.

That remains to be seen, doesn't it?

I don't remember a thread as big and as filled with negative views about lack of progression asn I've seen about the addition of ascended items.

And of course Anet is changing their stance from 7 years.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

The answer to the question people are asking should be "Yes we will create a gear treadmill" or "No we will not create a gear treadmill". Instead, ANET says "Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" There is a huge difference and when someone is non committal, well, just prepare for something you may not like.

You will never get that sort of commitment out of them or any dev studio in their right mind.  Trion won't tell you what exactly will happen years down the road either becasue they don't know.  Maybe what they think works doesn't and they need to adjust accordingly.  That is one reason RIFT has been so successful, because Trion has changed directions as needed in response to their community.  ANet is wise to follow in this path.  It will piss off some people just like it does in RIFT, but overall the community is happier for it.

The difference is Rift didn't make any drastic changes to the game that went against their initial game philo. You know, what caused peopel to buy it in the first place?

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

The answer to the question people are asking should be "Yes we will create a gear treadmill" or "No we will not create a gear treadmill". Instead, ANET says "Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" There is a huge difference and when someone is non committal, well, just prepare for something you may not like.

You will never get that sort of commitment out of them or any dev studio in their right mind.  Trion won't tell you what exactly will happen years down the road either becasue they don't know.  Maybe what they think works doesn't and they need to adjust accordingly.  That is one reason RIFT has been so successful, because Trion has changed directions as needed in response to their community.  ANet is wise to follow in this path.  It will piss off some people just like it does in RIFT, but overall the community is happier for it.

 

The difference is Rift didn't make any drastic changes to the game that went against their initial game philo. You know, what caused peopel to buy it in the first place?

Actually they did - they went from 2 sided PvP to 3-sided when they said they wouldn't do that. Also, they said they would add in areas for lower level characters and they have not. I don't know where you are getting your information from but your anger with A.Net is clouding your judgement - just my opinion.

Go back and read the threads about all the hacked accounts Rift had when the game first came out. It took them 3 months of debacle to fix that. Gold farmers/sellers were there for over 9 months also. People need to get perspective - it is only a game, afterall. Your life doesn't depend on it.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by GeezerGamer

The answer to the question people are asking should be "Yes we will create a gear treadmill" or "No we will not create a gear treadmill". Instead, ANET says "Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill" There is a huge difference and when someone is non committal, well, just prepare for something you may not like.

You will never get that sort of commitment out of them or any dev studio in their right mind.  Trion won't tell you what exactly will happen years down the road either becasue they don't know.  Maybe what they think works doesn't and they need to adjust accordingly.  That is one reason RIFT has been so successful, because Trion has changed directions as needed in response to their community.  ANet is wise to follow in this path.  It will piss off some people just like it does in RIFT, but overall the community is happier for it.

 

The difference is Rift didn't make any drastic changes to the game that went against their initial game philo. You know, what caused peopel to buy it in the first place?

Actually they did - they went from 2 sided PvP to 3-sided when they said they wouldn't do that. Also, they said they would add in areas for lower level characters and they have not. I don't know where you are getting your information from but your anger with A.Net is clouding your judgement - just my opinion.

 

Go back and read the threads about all the hacked accounts Rift had when the game first came out. It took them 3 months of debacle to fix that. Gold farmers/sellers were there for over 9 months also. People need to get perspective - it is only a game, afterall. Your life doesn't depend on it.

One is an improvement, the other would please some fans without annoying the rest.