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News & Features Discussion  » [Column] Guild Wars 2: Gear or Character Progression?

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49 posts found
  Valentina

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/28/06
Posts: 1661

11/14/12 11:31:38 AM#21
The big problem with this is that they promised they would NOT do the gear treadmill, that content over gear is what was important, and their design philosophy was to focus on making fun content, while exotic armor and legendary weapons stayed the top tier of gear and new items added would mainly just be a cosmetic difference to motivate players, and it works. They're completely going back on their word and slowly gonna be turning this game into "just another mmo" when it stood apart and had the potential to really be it's own, innovative game. So much for that, though and once you start lying to your playerbase like they apparently did then it's only a matter of time before people leave your game. They would be wise to scrap this idea, and find alternative paths of progression post 80 rather than taking the easy, boring, overdone route. People came to this game to get away from the carrot on the stick, and HERE they are adding it in...
  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

11/14/12 11:32:41 AM#22
Originally posted by snapfusion

I never understood the adversion to end game charcter progression.  How on earth can someone do the exact same thing over and over and over in a PROGRAMMED game, a game with no real variations do to natural causes and get nothing out of it?

The pat on the back for doing it only goes so far.  Sorry you can play the socialist angle where everyone is equal and you get nothing for your effort, but Im a capitalist, I want real progression and rewards for my efforts.  Not a useless achievement marker in some screen Ill never look at.

What is wrong with rewarding people for their efforts?  Nothing.

 

 

Actually it has nothing to do with capitalist or socialist.   People who have more left-side economic ideas also want to be rewarded for effort and not not wanting flat equality for everyone.

 

Besides don't mix games with politics please.

  FrodoFragins

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2764

11/14/12 11:38:23 AM#23

It's amazing how truly dividing this issue is.  For me it's a step in the right direction, but not quite enough to get me committed to GW2 again.  But even such a small step is enough to put some people into a rage.  If the ascended gear is available as world drops, as they seem to sugest, and is also craftable, I don't see the issue.

 

The game badly needs character progression, if they have some clever way of making it appealling without resorting to gear treadmills then that's great.  Otherwise, a mini gear treadmill isn't a huge deal.  Each so called tier in GW2 is so very close to the next that it would take a year of such gear improvments to actually represent a full tier between say rare gear and the top level.

  User Deleted
11/14/12 2:28:40 PM#24

Elder Game...

  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

11/14/12 4:06:56 PM#25
Originally posted by Psychow

Elder Game...

It is funny how they call it but at the same time you are scaled to lvl 80 when you enter it and the Agony mechanic kicks in on higher difficulties. So it is an "end game" dungeon you can do from lvl 1 theoretically.

 
  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1906

11/14/12 4:13:20 PM#26
Originally posted by snapfusion

I never understood the adversion to end game charcter progression.  How on earth can someone do the exact same thing over and over and over in a PROGRAMMED game, a game with no real variations do to natural causes and get nothing out of it?

The pat on the back for doing it only goes so far.  Sorry you can play the socialist angle where everyone is equal and you get nothing for your effort, but Im a capitalist, I want real progression and rewards for my efforts.  Not a useless achievement marker in some screen Ill never look at.

What is wrong with rewarding people for their efforts?  Nothing.

 

 

The aversion to most end game progression mechanics is due to developers who put all that end game progression into one single play style and screw over all the others.  This is suppose to be a casual game, yet the first real content and end game progression goes towards mechanics that hardcore gamers enjoy?

  urthal22

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/28/07
Posts: 112

11/14/12 4:17:53 PM#27

I love how people cried there wasnt anything end game, and now that End game is added and people can have something to work *harder* towards to, people starts Crying that they made end game and some sort of gear progression...

I personally wish at this point in time, Game Makers would stop listening to the headless chickens that now populate their games.... people are just never happy anymore.

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1906

11/14/12 4:17:57 PM#28
Originally posted by FrodoFragins

It's amazing how truly dividing this issue is.  For me it's a step in the right direction, but not quite enough to get me committed to GW2 again.  But even such a small step is enough to put some people into a rage.  If the ascended gear is available as world drops, as they seem to sugest, and is also craftable, I don't see the issue.

 

The game badly needs character progression, if they have some clever way of making it appealling without resorting to gear treadmills then that's great.  Otherwise, a mini gear treadmill isn't a huge deal.  Each so called tier in GW2 is so very close to the next that it would take a year of such gear improvments to actually represent a full tier between say rare gear and the top level.

As a gamer who loves to adventure casually, I do not find it in the least bit rewarding or incentivizing to have my adventuring rewards come through crafting or as a 0.00001% random world drop.  If you used that same argument for top end raid gear being only attainable through crafting and ultra rare world drops, you'd hear a niche gameplay audience make more noise than the entire gaming population combined.

  Blazer6992

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 600

Shit Happens!!

11/14/12 4:22:42 PM#29

I want to know what a "gear treadmill" is.

 

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2609

11/14/12 4:28:26 PM#30
People need to slow down and just breathe a bit.  Anet never promised there would be no gear progression in GW2.  They only promised that it wouldn't be as prominent, and I'm pretty sure it isn't.  If they want to keep players for the long haul, they have to dangle some sort of carrott in front of their faces.  The illusion that so many people had of being able to play GW2 without an exterior motivation was simply laughable.
  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

11/14/12 5:23:23 PM#31
Originally posted by Blazer6992

I want to know what a "gear treadmill" is.

 

I think people associate any kind of progression with gear a "gear treadmill". Which is funny b/c everyone were fine with green>yellow>orange system already in gw2. Suddently it is not ok.. hmm

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/14/12 5:42:41 PM#32

Since this is all just one part of a bigger package, why don't we all chill out a bit and see how it works out.  If it ends up being a gear treadmill, we'll find that out pretty quickly.  However, until the content comes out, we have nothing but speculation.

 

And, as I found in another thread about this very issue, many people opt not to read an entire post before going off the rails.  So far, Anet has been pretty good about listening to people but still following their "inner compass".  Hopefully that hasn't changed.

 

I personally have faith in them but I do admit to being a little worried, especially at first, about what the new dungeons/armor/infused items mean for the game.  So far from what I've read, my fears seem to be unfounded, but we'll know for sure probably by Monday.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  evolver1972

Novice Member

Joined: 3/18/11
Posts: 1126

What is "real"? How do you define "real"?

11/14/12 5:46:40 PM#33
Originally posted by QSatu
Originally posted by Blazer6992

I want to know what a "gear treadmill" is.

 

I think people associate any kind of progression with gear a "gear treadmill". Which is funny b/c everyone were fine with green>yellow>orange system already in gw2. Suddently it is not ok.. hmm

 

If the gear is part of your natural character progression through the game (new gear and new stats as you level) then it's not a treadmill, it's a natural function of the game.

 

What I think most people mean by treadmill is the idea that you have to continually run dungeons, or some other content, so you can continually get better gear.  And it repeats over and over for each new content release.

 

So, gear progression while leveling = ok.

 

Gear progression so you can run a dungeon so you can get better gear to run another dungeon and repeating that over and over = not ok.

You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???

Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!

  Tekaelon

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/09/08
Posts: 472

11/14/12 5:48:34 PM#34
It doesn't have to be one or the other. I have no qualms with occasional gear progression as long as it doesn't keep players out of content. I am a casual player with long term goals. I will be playing far into the future to meet those goals. However if GW2 becomes a gear grind with strict content gear Rex'ss to keep the 'I don't have a life' players happy then it wil be time for me to go. Personally I doubt it will come to that.
  Toxia

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/09
Posts: 1290

11/14/12 6:05:32 PM#35

Why didnt they just make the stats the same as exotics ? It already has the 'infusion slot' for whatever is needed for agony, so why make it any stronger at all?

I dont care how much it is. "We'll start small guys, add a few points here and there, a slot for more upgrades, let people get to liking those, then BAM! Tiered gear and we have a winner!"

The Deep Web is sca-ry.

  GoldenArrow

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1077

11/14/12 8:49:50 PM#36

Arena.Net just dropped the ball.

Next patch: Instanced Raids.

  Blazer6992

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/27/05
Posts: 600

Shit Happens!!

11/14/12 11:45:55 PM#37
Originally posted by evolver1972
Originally posted by QSatu
Originally posted by Blazer6992

I want to know what a "gear treadmill" is.

 

I think people associate any kind of progression with gear a "gear treadmill". Which is funny b/c everyone were fine with green>yellow>orange system already in gw2. Suddently it is not ok.. hmm

 

If the gear is part of your natural character progression through the game (new gear and new stats as you level) then it's not a treadmill, it's a natural function of the game.

 

What I think most people mean by treadmill is the idea that you have to continually run dungeons, or some other content, so you can continually get better gear.  And it repeats over and over for each new content release.

 

So, gear progression while leveling = ok.

 

Gear progression so you can run a dungeon so you can get better gear to run another dungeon and repeating that over and over = not ok.

 

So I would have to run the same dungeon over and over and over untill I get all my gear and then do it again when the next dungeon comes out? I wouldn't want to do that either. But then this question pops up in my mind. Is the gear BOP or BOE? If it's BOE then I'll just buy it when I save up enough coin. But then I would always be broke if I constantly had to keep buying the new gear.

 

 

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3085

I am more than some of my parts

11/15/12 1:48:50 AM#38
They just need to make it so that you can only run the dungeon once a week. Then the raiders will be happy. There will be tons of endgame because it will take a long time to acheive because people won't be doing 50 dungeon runs each night so they can be the first to complain about how little content it amounted to be.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

  geremady

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/16/11
Posts: 36

11/15/12 4:10:16 AM#39

Seriously, I dont get why some people play MMORPGs.

The whole idea of the rpg-part is to grow a character and make it distinctive from other characters.

It is ok to have leveling from 1 till 80(characterprogression)  but after that it is forbidden?

What is the fun in THAT? Why would you stop progression at a certain point?

It doesnt have to be levels : new skills, alternate advancement/abilities, gear, the possibility to take on harder or different content.

Some of you sound like you want an actiongame: start at maxlevel and never change; only bashing things on the head and be happy with your achievement of having killed 1000 or 5000 of the same mobs.

Sorry if I sound a little bitter but for me  characterprogression and differentation is what has kept these games interesting all those years  and the last years I see a big push to make every character the same: characters must be perfectly balanced, classes being clones of eachother ability-wise; being able to do everything on one character.

These are all things that kill my fun.

  User Deleted
11/15/12 5:03:52 AM#40

Am i the only one who thinks that Character progression is not one umbrella term for all kind of progressions but a specific category?


Having said that you can also make content gates with skill (progression) or even character "feature" stat progression.

An example would be a 100d lock in D&D, you can't unlock the door and the dungeon before you can get 100d and that's when you are lvl 12 with + x tools and 20 points spend into unlocking.


People don't like treadmill systems and that all winds up on GEAR is due to what EQ/WOW did to the mmo genre.

To me, the issue of treadmills isn't resolved even if ANet decided to get those upgrades into my "character" rather than the items. That is for me where ANet failes and violates their own agenda.

They promised progression without treadmills, yet all they do is tradmills, adding pun to the issue by even beeing GEAR treadmills.

All the ressources gone into this disaster could habe been used for real dynamic events, or even fixing & introducing what is still not working at all.

* Level Scaling
* Dynamic event scaling (seriously a core feature that isn't workign at all, we all love the same 10 corps groups spawns when there are 50 people or 5 - no we don't)
* Guesting
* Character Story (the disgracing endfight with zaitan..urgh)
* fixing every damn dungeon, all of them are so damn bug ridden it's not even funny
etc,,,

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