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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Looking back at MMOExposed's spotlight thread regarding Lacking of tanking mechanics leads to zergfest, was he right?

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65 posts found
  Isawa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/08
Posts: 1066

11/15/12 2:40:04 AM#21
Originally posted by SirFubar
For the dungeons, sure its a zerg fest if you don't know how to play with other bad players but with a good group, nope not at all. For the WvW, to a certain degree yeah absolutely but a good organized guild/alliance can beat a zerg pretty easily.

Especially if you pick and call your targets, can make short work of twice your odds. I join up with strike teams in WvW and stay clear of the huge zerg pack myself.

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2622

11/15/12 2:53:08 AM#22

People learn a way of doing things and when they are confronted with a situation where that way doesn't work they complain and leave instead of trying to learn something else. Sometimes they will even say if they wanted to do that they would play some other game genre because mingling things is a very bad thing.

Things should always remain the same, with no differences, because otherwise is too much confusion and the brain can't adapt.

No tanks, green is better than blue, red circles instead of green goo...

 

 

Do you think the person that gave spotlight to MMOExposed should bash their heads against the wall and wipe their behinds with a cactus every morning?

I do.
I don't.
I think you should do it as well.
I want to do it as well after reading these forums.
(login to vote)

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  bartoni33

Elite Member

Joined: 5/03/06
Posts: 1099

Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter accusations

11/15/12 2:54:19 AM#23
Originally posted by spookydom
Spookydom decided after reading the first post that he would speak in the third person as well for the duration of this post because it looks like anybody can get away with it. Spookydom is wondering what he should have for breakfast right now. He is thinking a nice bacon sandwich. Was he right? Or should he have a nice healthy bowl of Museli?

Bartoni33 always advocates Bacon for Breakfast. Bartoni33 feels that non-clogged veins are for losers. Cholesterol or death Bartoni33 always squeakes out of his bloated pie-hole. Was he right?

Not trying to stir Museli by the way. Serious question about his cholesterol levels in the past.

  Ethos86

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/11
Posts: 129

11/15/12 3:00:49 AM#24
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

People learn a way of doing things and when they are confronted with a situation where that way doesn't work they complain and leave instead of trying to learn something else. Sometimes they will even say if they wanted to do that they would play some other game genre because mingling things is a very bad thing.

Things should always remain the same, with no differences, because otherwise is too much confusion and the brain can't adapt.

No tanks, green is better than blue, red circles instead of green goo...

 

 

 

Ethos86 thinks that you just made the best poll he has ever seen on these forums. Kudos to you from him.

  Siug

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/02/12
Posts: 1023

11/15/12 3:01:22 AM#25
Originally posted by bartoni33
Originally posted by spookydom
Spookydom decided after reading the first post that he would speak in the third person as well for the duration of this post because it looks like anybody can get away with it. Spookydom is wondering what he should have for breakfast right now. He is thinking a nice bacon sandwich. Was he right? Or should he have a nice healthy bowl of Museli?

Bartoni33 always advocates Bacon for Breakfast. Bartoni33 feels that non-clogged veins are for losers. Cholesterol or death Bartoni33 always squeakes out of his bloated pie-hole. Was he right?

Not trying to stir Museli by the way. Serious question about his cholesterol levels in the past.

Piiritus agrees with him.

  Rimmersman

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 911

11/15/12 3:03:36 AM#26
Originally posted by MMOExposed

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/286958/page/1

well that's the thread that got him Spotlight Poster.

now looking back on it, was He right about GW2?

 

not trying to stir emotions by the way. Serious question about his spotlight post in the past.

You really think that you are going to get an honest answer in the GW2 forum lol. You really think that people are going to admit that GW2 dungeons are mainly a graveyard zerg.

 

  spookydom

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/08
Posts: 1807

I'm a lvl 50 Batman!

11/15/12 3:05:10 AM#27
Originally posted by bartoni33
Originally posted by spookydom
Spookydom decided after reading the first post that he would speak in the third person as well for the duration of this post because it looks like anybody can get away with it. Spookydom is wondering what he should have for breakfast right now. He is thinking a nice bacon sandwich. Was he right? Or should he have a nice healthy bowl of Museli?

Bartoni33 always advocates Bacon for Breakfast. Bartoni33 feels that non-clogged veins are for losers. Cholesterol or death Bartoni33 always squeakes out of his bloated pie-hole. Was he right?

Not trying to stir Museli by the way. Serious question about his cholesterol levels in the past.

Spookydom wants to reply to this post but can not reach his keyboard due to sever arterial cloggage because of eating too much bacon. Was he right not add another poll asking the community if he was having a heart attack for fear of moderator wrath? Only time will tell. One day he may come back and start another thread looking back at this post. Was he right?

  InFlamestwo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/20/11
Posts: 677

11/15/12 3:17:11 AM#28
Not really. Any game with 20-30 players on the same quest or PvP map will be a zergfest, it doesn't matter if it has tank or not. 

  Voqar

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 481

11/15/12 3:17:30 AM#29

Didn't read the original article.  Didn't vote since almost every poll I've ever seen on the web like this one, is stupid with crappy options.

I'm of two minds here, and me and my friends (generally playing GW2) feel the same way.

It's kind of silly that tanks can magically hold threat and be the focal point of mob attacks (when you have a good tank), and it's sometimes a PITA to get groups in trinity-based systems (never is for me since I play with friends and don't solo my way thru MMORPGs then whine when I have no friends), but...

There's a certain elegance to grouping when people have roles and it's all done well.

Grouping in GW2 to me, even with friends who are long time MMORPGs, groupers, raiders, just feels like a group of soloists.  There are no real roles.  Some melee might get hit more but he surely isn't tanking, it's just that mobs tend to hit what's close much of the time (GW2 supposedly has AI variance here but let's be real - most mobs hit the melees if they're in melee - slaping extra toughness and vitality on said melee doesn't magically make them a tank, it just helps them survive the inevitable beating better).  There is no healer.  Everybody is a solo dps/hybrid with some element of support they may or may not use.

If you wanna call a group of soloists in a dungeon a zerg, so be it.

The dungeon content itself isn't that bad, it's ok for the most part, but I've seen better in several games (more interesting environs, mechanics, bosses, trash pulls, and definitely loot).  The grouping is meh.

In most trinity dungeon situations you have to play smart (ideally) but you can also be that amazing tank that makes a run smooth as silk (or that crappy tank that people talk about), you can be that healer or whatever that bails out a horrible pull or situation, you can be a noticeably amazing dps who plays smart and puts the smack down.

In GW2, there's no real distinctions.  You're all a bunch of hybrid clones with nearly the same mechanice, you can play smart, avoid damage, and that's about it.  What else are you gonna say?  Wow, that dude really does his support hybrid stuff amazingly well!  Maybe but the difference between someone doing it at all and someone doing it well is barely noticeable.

One thing that really stands out is that in  many different trinity-based MMORPGs I've been in situations that seemed hopeless or ridiculous but heroic effort and pulling out all the stops bailed out a sure wipe - those epic moments that make memories.  I've yet to experience anything remotely like that in GW2 because down state, being able to run back to battles, no clear roles, different style of tactical and such, just don't provide that kind of experience.

In GW2 it's more common to have utterly miserable battles where you're laughing at how obsurd it all is and you beat it thru attrition and are glad it's over - do better next time.  It's like no matter how poorly you execute/play you can still eventually win, you'll just have a higher repair bill.

 

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  Torgrim

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 2171

11/15/12 3:37:48 AM#30

Dumbest thread question in a long time please lock this, It won't add anything just a lot of OT babbles.

A zerg is a zerg no matter how you see it either 2 tankers aggro the mobs while the rest dps or no tankers and all dps It's all a zerg no matter what, yes this goes for all MMOs

If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  jpnz

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 3565

11/15/12 3:40:21 AM#31
Originally posted by Rimmersman
Originally posted by MMOExposed

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/286958/page/1

well that's the thread that got him Spotlight Poster.

now looking back on it, was He right about GW2?

 

not trying to stir emotions by the way. Serious question about his spotlight post in the past.

You really think that you are going to get an honest answer in the GW2 forum lol. You really think that people are going to admit that GW2 dungeons are mainly a graveyard zerg.

 

I don't think that's the point.

Posters will post whatever, but the fact doesn't change that it is a zerg-fest.

It is always nice to 'rub it in'. :P

Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

11/15/12 3:40:49 AM#32
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by bartoni33
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Karteli
GW2 is a really boring game.  Something needs to be done.

Well he didn't say that, but he did say it would be zergfest.

you agree?

Who the hell are you then?

At this point I think he meant to post OP as an alt account. Or all the forum power has gone to his head!

Yada Yada ... Accept what you see.  I didn't generate the emotions from either posts.

 

I stand by what was said.

To be fair you stand by the same statement on most threads - regardless of what the thread is about....

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

11/15/12 3:48:57 AM#33

I think he was both right and wrong.

You see here Anet dropped the ball entirely.

 

When Anet stated they are removing the trinity - it promised that any class could do any of trinity roles.

In other words - elementalist could be dedicated tank , warrior could be dedicated healer and necromancer could be nuker...

 

Which is not what actually happens.

Guardian is still by far most effective tank , elementalist is by far most effective nuker ... and healer yes that is guardian again.

 

What anet did is not remove trinity , they broke trinity.

Now you dont really have effective tank (no way to hold agrro) , there is no real healer ( everyone can heal , some better than other - but no one is really good at healing ) - basically what everyone can do is nuking. This is what everyone can do effectively.

So if you can not tank, or heal ... you have no choice but to nuke and hope you will come on top - or run fast enough back , before the whole party wipe.

 

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2622

11/15/12 3:57:31 AM#34
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think he was both right and wrong.

You see here Anet dropped the ball entirely.

 

When Anet stated they are removing the trinity - it promised that any class could do any of trinity roles.

In other words - elementalist could be dedicated tank , warrior could be dedicated healer and necromancer could be nuker...

 

Which is not what actually happens.

Guardian is still by far most effective tank , elementalist is by far most effective nuker ... and healer yes that is guardian again.

 

What anet did is not remove trinity , they broke trinity.

Now you dont really have effective tank (no way to hold agrro) , there is no real healer ( everyone can heal , some better than other - but no one is really good at healing ) - basically what everyone can do is nuking. This is what everyone can do effectively.

So if you can not tank, or heal ... you have no choice but to nuke and hope you will come on top - or run fast enough back , before the whole party wipe.

 

Except Warrior and Assassin are crazy damage dealers and Necro is a beefy tank.

And Earth elementalist have no problem surviving damage and elementalists are awesome condition removal support.

And rangers with a single skill are one of the best healers and even warrior shouter can do a nice amount healing.

Anet didn't say there would be dedicated tankers, healers or nukers.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  IPolygon

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/20/11
Posts: 709

11/15/12 3:58:56 AM#35
ANet only needs to scale content up in other dimensions too, so zerging alone is not the most effective way. If DEs would be expanded depending on the number of players participating, it would be more challenging. Right now there are not enough mechanics to punish mindless zerging in high level areas (pve).

WvW is fine, because not zergs decide battles, war machinery does. If you think otherwise you haven't been crushed by a good opposition yet. Dungeons are fine as they are. You are rewarded for being tankier or squishier if you can manage to dodge the most damaging attacks, you will be fine. GW2's combat is supposed to be rather chaotic, but it still is fun and challenging. If you die more than the average player than it will cost you a lot. Difficulty in GW2 is a money sink. Good players will always be wealthier than bad players and need lesss time to complete something. Just because you have tried x times to clear a dungeon doesn't mean the dungeon is easy. Try to clear a dungeon without being defeated once, then the dungeon is either too easy or you the player are really good.

Difficulty in GW2 makes stuff more time consuming and expensive.
  Raekon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 552

11/15/12 4:02:50 AM#36

It depends what you think a honest answer is.

In my and many other peoples opinions that are playing dungeons with barely anyone dying, dungeons aren't graveyard runs.

For people that never learned to utilize what they have properly and aren't good teamworkers either,  dungeons are "graveyard" runs.

As about the tiring claims of some other people that GW2 is a "anti social" game, I can only say that people need to finally sit down and understand that GW2 as also almost all MMOS out there, are as social as they can be.

The main difference between GW2 and other mmos is that in GW2 it is YOUR CHOICE if you wanna be social or not in most parts of the game (except of dungeons and spvp as also certain bosses in the open field you can't defeat alone).

So the game is actually very social and all tools to be social are given.

The problem in it is that many people don't care about grouping and are anti social soloers themselves.

If you wanna be social then do something about it yourself instead of expecting the game to do everything for you.

It's as easy as that.

Forced grouping is rather anti social than social in the first place. Most of all in games with trinity design in which people need to have a certain class or build or they can't join a group.

This prevents them from enjoying further contents, leads to drama and issues as also frustration to say the least.

Last but not least: MMOEXPOSED wasn't right.

At least that's that's what Raekon told me. ;p

  Gaia_Hunter

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2622

11/15/12 4:12:46 AM#37
Originally posted by IPolygon
ANet only needs to scale content up in other dimensions too, so zerging alone is not the most effective way. If DEs would be expanded depending on the number of players participating, it would be more challenging. Right now there are not enough mechanics to punish mindless zerging in high level areas (pve).

 

WvW is fine, because not zergs decide battles, war machinery does. If you think otherwise you haven't been crushed by a good opposition yet. Dungeons are fine as they are. You are rewarded for being tankier or squishier if you can manage to dodge the most damaging attacks, you will be fine. GW2's combat is supposed to be rather chaotic, but it still is fun and challenging. If you die more than the average player than it will cost you a lot. Difficulty in GW2 is a money sink. Good players will always be wealthier than bad players and need lesss time to complete something. Just because you have tried x times to clear a dungeon doesn't mean the dungeon is easy. Try to clear a dungeon without being defeated once, then the dungeon is either too easy or you the player are really good.

 

Difficulty in GW2 makes stuff more time consuming and expensive.

There is no doubt DE's need a better scalling - they work very well up to 5-10 players (depending of the particular event) but just adding more mobs and/or beefing the boss hp doesn't compensate the addtion of more players over 5-10. They need different mobs with different skills and coordination.

WvW is not exactly working properly atm - in the BWE everyone feared the arrow cart, now no one cares.

Siege weapons being capped at 5 targets isn't good, neither is the fact the battle locations are indicated in the map.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Lobotomist

Elite Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4839

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

11/15/12 4:15:55 AM#38
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Lobotomist

I think he was both right and wrong.

You see here Anet dropped the ball entirely.

 

When Anet stated they are removing the trinity - it promised that any class could do any of trinity roles.

In other words - elementalist could be dedicated tank , warrior could be dedicated healer and necromancer could be nuker...

 

Which is not what actually happens.

Guardian is still by far most effective tank , elementalist is by far most effective nuker ... and healer yes that is guardian again.

 

What anet did is not remove trinity , they broke trinity.

Now you dont really have effective tank (no way to hold agrro) , there is no real healer ( everyone can heal , some better than other - but no one is really good at healing ) - basically what everyone can do is nuking. This is what everyone can do effectively.

So if you can not tank, or heal ... you have no choice but to nuke and hope you will come on top - or run fast enough back , before the whole party wipe.

 

Except Warrior and Assassin are crazy damage dealers and Necro is a beefy tank.

And Earth elementalist have no problem surviving damage and elementalists are awesome condition removal support.

And rangers with a single skill are one of the best healers and even warrior shouter can do a nice amount healing.

Anet didn't say there would be dedicated tankers, healers or nukers.

They didnt say there will be dedicated. What they DID say that each class could spec into being dedicated.

Did this happen ? No

1. Every class can do hell lot of damage - but some can do hell lot more < - Everyone can be nuker FAIL

2. Every class can tank - Yet tanking dungeon boss with elementalist , even Necro is cute , but not as effective as Guardian < - Everyone can be dedicated Tank FAIL

3. Every class can heal others - Yet Elementalist and Engineer can do it whole lot better - And no class can heal enough to keep people effectively alive - Dedicated Healer FAIL

  Omnifish

Novice Member

Joined: 2/16/11
Posts: 615

I'll kick your a**e so hard, you could build a swimming pool in the footprint!

11/15/12 4:17:57 AM#39
Omnifish no function, beer not without!

This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!

  impiro

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/06/09
Posts: 214

11/15/12 4:26:22 AM#40
Originally posted by Karteli
Originally posted by bartoni33
Originally posted by kadepsyson
Originally posted by MMOExposed
Originally posted by Karteli
GW2 is a really boring game.  Something needs to be done.

Well he didn't say that, but he did say it would be zergfest.

you agree?

Who the hell are you then?

At this point I think he meant to post OP as an alt account. Or all the forum power has gone to his head!

Yada Yada ... Accept what you see.  I didn't generate the emotions from either posts.

 

I stand by what was said.

Exposed, next time at least remember to login your other account...........

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