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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » EQ next!! who want punishing death?

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261 posts found
  xDayx

Novice Member

Joined: 9/08/11
Posts: 713

11/14/12 4:30:40 PM#241
Yes, harsh death penalty please. And since its going to be more sandox, i wish my gear stays on my body. In Addition, only epics should be LORE and stay with you on death.
  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1880

11/14/12 4:32:56 PM#242
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by ice-vortex

Yet games that are considered unsuccessful have more subscribers  than Everquest ever had.

What games are that? EQ had 600k subscribers after the game was about 4 years old, concurrent users, not total, total it runs in the millions.

Which 4 year old games have 600k subscribers? Not many.

Which games still have 12 servers after 11 years? Not many.

GW2 probably doesn't even exist anymore in 11 years.

SoE released stats in their 10 year anniversiry video, 12 million characters were created in EQ.

 

60,000 people applied for beta

 

You can say a lot of stuff about EQ, that you didn't like the death penalty, that you didn't like the gameplay, claiming it wasn't successful just makes you ignorant.

EQ was the most successful MMO at the time, not UO, not Lineage, not AC, not DAOC, it wasn't until WOW came out that a game surpassed EQ in subscribers. What's more, those WoW designers were EQ players.

Nice padding of the numbers.  They reached 450K at peak around 2003.  They went through more than 1.5 million subscibers, but lost the majority of them due to harsh gameplay.  Enter a more casual EQ2 to catch those gamers who couldn't stand how hardcore most of the Original EQ was.  EQ still has a pretty strong following, estimations would seem to be below the 100k mark.  Keep in mind that you now have an EQ with no corpse runs as you can summon your corpse with NPC's at the guild lobby so you can use a resurrection spell for some XP return and you don't leave loot on the corpses anymore either.  You have a huge teleport hub in the Plane of Knowledge, so travel is incredibly easy and fast.  You now have mercenaries that let you solo to your heart's content.  Potions for everything and the list goes on.  So, tell me, what exactly is it about this game that helps retain players when most of the hardcore, time wasting mechanics are gone? 

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3244

Poacher killer.

11/14/12 4:41:17 PM#243
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"real" accomplishment in a game? You are beating pixels. It is about whether it is fun or not. If i want real accomplishment, i will work another hour to do more work.

The only thing that is close to real accomplishments in games is e-sports. Other stuff is just artificial psychological drivers to entertain.

For many of us, which appears to be a growing number, overly easy breezy mmos are simply not fun. Fun is why we're all here, a fact that seems to elude you from reading your posts. There are certain types of people that are not as easy to entertain. More power to you though that you're finding such a vast sea of fun with the genre's current crop of titles. I guess it's almost like having a very low tolerance for alcohol; in the end it's nothing but a win win.

"Chuck's a good fighter but he's a UFC fighter... this is Pride." - Quinton Rampage Jackson
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1832

11/14/12 4:56:43 PM#244
Originally posted by whiteoak21

I really want  EQnext to be like eq1 but better.

I'm a big fan of punishing death in mmorpg and i really like when our body stayed on the ground.

It increase the feeling of fear that i think is essential in a good immersive game.

i know a lot of people don't like it because you can lose your body and all your stuff.

maybe they should return your corp's after 1 month or make you lose only your accesory (rings,necklace,...)

my top punishing game are (eq1,UO,legend of kesmai,realm of the mad god)

what are you thinking of punishing death?

 

 

Vanguard was the first game that I played that had corpse runs, since I chose to play DAoC over EQ in my early MMORPG years. The knowledge that I could lose all my stuff didn't make the game  more exciting. In fact, when I did die and if it was deep into somewhere dangerous, it would frustrate me to no end. I absolutely hate that mechanic. I honestly prefer xp loss as a death penalty and would approve of it in EQNext.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

11/14/12 4:59:52 PM#245
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"real" accomplishment in a game? You are beating pixels. It is about whether it is fun or not. If i want real accomplishment, i will work another hour to do more work.

The only thing that is close to real accomplishments in games is e-sports. Other stuff is just artificial psychological drivers to entertain.

For many of us, which appears to be a growing number, overly easy breezy mmos are simply not fun. Fun is why we're all here, a fact that seems to elude you from reading your posts. There are certain types of people that are not as easy to entertain. More power to you though that you're finding such a vast sea of fun with the genre's current crop of titles. I guess it's almost like having a very low tolerance for alcohol; in the end it's nothing but a win win.

If you need a game to be impossible, time-consuming, and requiring huge commitment to be fun, i think you are out of step with the mainstream consumers. Thus, that is the reason why you are complaining here, instead of enjoying the greatest latest game.

(And jsut in case you ask, i usually post when i am bored at work. Thus, you see me less in the evening when i am actually playing the games i talked about).

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1832

11/14/12 5:01:18 PM#246
Originally posted by madazz

I miss being punished for death oddly enough. No longer do I give a crap about dieing on a quest. If I do, whoopee! I just run in and just do it over and over till I get it. Hell, there are quests where I res on my corpse, and then run as far as possible before I die again, and then I just rinse and repeat till I am towards the end hAhAHahA. Also, armour repairs are stupid cheap, and even if they weren't, I'd just do it naked. 

No longer do I have to plot to be safe. Nor do I have to achieve anything before hand to accomplish most quests. With how easy all the MMO's are now a days, its no wonder none of them last as long as they used to. Or if they last, they aren't as profitable and thus go F2P. We need a developer or two that will ignore the casual crowd and give us back death penalties!!! We are the ones that continue to subscribe to their games for the long haul while the casuals drift in and out. Lately they aren't keeping either crowd anymore. Please note, I don't think all games need a penalty, but a couple here and there would be awesome.

On that note, I hope EQ Next gets a real death penalty. Screw the carebears. They don't even know what they want which is evident by the poor cycles of games that have been coming out.

Umm, I think that's a personal problem, and I don't mean that in an insulting way. I say this because when I'm playing WoW or any easy mode game, I still care if I die, because I hate the time it takes to run back to my corpse, so I'm always careful about where I tread and how many enemies I can take on. 

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

11/14/12 5:03:02 PM#247

Again, its not the harshness of the penalty, its the gameplay of it. You dont need to have a harsh penalty at all, but you should build some things around it, like being rewarded for living, speccable abilities and a strong tie to the lore of the game.

Weve tried lots of random "rules", lets try an indepth system.

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 811

11/14/12 5:12:18 PM#248
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by ice-vortex

Yet games that are considered unsuccessful have more subscribers  than Everquest ever had.

What games are that? EQ had 600k subscribers after the game was about 4 years old, concurrent users, not total, total it runs in the millions.

Which 4 year old games have 600k subscribers? Not many.

Which games still have 12 servers after 11 years? Not many.

GW2 probably doesn't even exist anymore in 11 years.

SoE released stats in their 10 year anniversiry video, 12 million characters were created in EQ.

 

60,000 people applied for beta

 

You can say a lot of stuff about EQ, that you didn't like the death penalty, that you didn't like the gameplay, claiming it wasn't successful just makes you ignorant.

EQ was the most successful MMO at the time, not UO, not Lineage, not AC, not DAOC, it wasn't until WOW came out that a game surpassed EQ in subscribers. What's more, those WoW designers were EQ players.

Nice padding of the numbers.  They reached 450K at peak around 2003.  They went through more than 1.5 million subscibers, but lost the majority of them due to harsh gameplay.  Enter a more casual EQ2 to catch those gamers who couldn't stand how hardcore most of the Original EQ was.  EQ still has a pretty strong following, estimations would seem to be below the 100k mark.  Keep in mind that you now have an EQ with no corpse runs as you can summon your corpse with NPC's at the guild lobby so you can use a resurrection spell for some XP return and you don't leave loot on the corpses anymore either.  You have a huge teleport hub in the Plane of Knowledge, so travel is incredibly easy and fast.  You now have mercenaries that let you solo to your heart's content.  Potions for everything and the list goes on.  So, tell me, what exactly is it about this game that helps retain players when most of the hardcore, time wasting mechanics are gone? 

Wrong. It lost them to other games such as daoc/wow/eve.

nostalgia

  nate1980

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 3/03/09
Posts: 1832

11/14/12 5:13:55 PM#249
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Aelious

Wow, yeah I imagine the reaction was much different .  The idea of having a death penatly system isn't to make your life harder after you die, it's to give you more incentive to not die in the first place.  Similar to the excitement of OWPvP when you're looking over your shoulder.  It needs to be in moderation or an imaginatative addition, such as Rungard is talking about, but I think it could work.

Yes, his line of thinking brings something more interesting the table than a boring shallow insta-respawn or corpse run mechanic.  Either extreme end of the spectrum is sort of lazy game design to a degree.

You don't want DPs to be so extreme people stop taking risks and play it safe.  On the other hand you want people to use a little bit of thought and tactics to the combat.  It's a little bit tricky because too much of either end will result in boredom or frustration which is non-productive.

If you want people to use thought and tactics in combat, then developers need to make common encounters require thought and tactics, otherwise people just turn off their brain and just faceroll through the leveling process, like in WoW. Death penalties have nothing to do with this. If encounters are faceroll easy, does a harsh penalty really make people more careful? Nope, because they won't ever die. But if the encounters require a persons attention to actually win, the player will pay attention anyways, regardless of death penalty.

  Dahkot72

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 274

11/14/12 5:15:33 PM#250

I played EQ in beta and on , and liked the harsher penalties for xps loss and corpse runs.

Out of the two I'd prefer to have corpse runs for this reason.

Vanguard was the next game after EQ that people actually stuck together in , as in if you went down as a group you stuck together to fight your way back to get your gear , today's mmorpg games are too easy to never group , or if you do its for a brief moment then off you go.

I liked the fact you depended on each other in EQ dungeons and in VG , and if the group you were in disbanded or someone dropped you'd find other folks who'd join in to help with the corpse runs.

It fostered community. I liked that.

It's ok to have easy no penalty on death games , but all of them dont have to be that way.

It would be nice to have a modern/new mmorpg that did require thinking , sticking together , and was not forgiving in death terms.

There's obviously tons of candyland easy mmorpg's , why does it bother so many that some of us want one modern EQ'ish one to play ?

(and for the record I also loved the community around trading in the East Common tunnels , you haggled in person , in chat and met up and exchanged goods and money , it was enjoyable and another thing that made it feel like a living breathing world , I just would like to have a modern graphics original EQ style game and have no problems saying so.)

  TheJoda

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/10
Posts: 492

"Yes...... that's a Duck Staff of D00M!!!"

11/14/12 5:17:20 PM#251
........yes there needs to be risks to enjoy the rewards or over all emersion in games.  Like in EQ 1 my necro would get /wispers " can you summon my corpse?" that helped build game community,  which games LACK now!

....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  Dahkot72

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/16/11
Posts: 274

11/14/12 5:20:30 PM#252
Originally posted by TheJoda
........yes there needs to be risks to enjoy the rewards or over all emersion in games.  Like in EQ 1 my necro would get /wispers " can you summon my corpse?" that helped build game community,  which games LACK now!

I loved those parts of true EQ (as in pre PoP expansion) also.

Necros for just that , you'd have bard taxi parties to run groups to far off spots , druid and wizard teleports to other locations etc ,

I left EQ because they slowly got rid of the virtual world feeling of the game , not because it was "too hard".

It become too unfun , too unlike it was at launch after PoP and went down from there for me.

  Voqar

Novice Member

Joined: 1/28/04
Posts: 469

11/14/12 5:24:14 PM#253
Originally posted by whiteoak21

I really want  EQnext to be like eq1 but better.

I'm a big fan of punishing death in mmorpg and i really like when our body stayed on the ground.

It increase the feeling of fear that i think is essential in a good immersive game.

i know a lot of people don't like it because you can lose your body and all your stuff.

maybe they should return your corp's after 1 month or make you lose only your accesory (rings,necklace,...)

my top punishing game are (eq1,UO,legend of kesmai,realm of the mad god)

what are you thinking of punishing death?

 

 

Actually, I don't play games to be in fear, I play them to have fun.  Odd concept, that one.

Harsh death mechanics are a terrible idea for a variety of good reasons.

- not fun for people who are sane

- discourages exploration

- discourages experimentation

- discourages grouping

What bothers me most in MMORPGs these days is the solo emphasis and lack of grouping opportunities.  You wanna talk original EQ?  Talk about forced grouping making players play well, behave, and worry about and develop a good reputation since if you couldn't get groups, you didn't level.  Period.

I would never want to return to the boring days of camp and grind and forced grouping, but I WOULD like to see MMORPGs be more about grouping and less about solo ez-mode, which IMO, leads to lots of brats and poor players.  I would like to see MUCH more group content and grouping potential.

We'll never get to a point where grouping is encouraged and more optional group content is viable with harsh death penalties, because nobody wants to group if there's a risk of losing xp and/or gear due to someone else screwing up.  It's critical to have tolertable death penalties to encourage grouping.

Harsh death penalties are akin to a kick in the nuts.  Do you really need to be kicked in the nuts to enjoy your game?  If you do, I sure hope you're the minority.

 

Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 811

11/14/12 5:42:03 PM#254
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"real" accomplishment in a game? You are beating pixels. It is about whether it is fun or not. If i want real accomplishment, i will work another hour to do more work.

The only thing that is close to real accomplishments in games is e-sports. Other stuff is just artificial psychological drivers to entertain.

For many of us, which appears to be a growing number, overly easy breezy mmos are simply not fun. Fun is why we're all here, a fact that seems to elude you from reading your posts. There are certain types of people that are not as easy to entertain. More power to you though that you're finding such a vast sea of fun with the genre's current crop of titles. I guess it's almost like having a very low tolerance for alcohol; in the end it's nothing but a win win.

If you need a game to be impossible, time-consuming, and requiring huge commitment to be fun, i think you are out of step with the mainstream consumers. Thus, that is the reason why you are complaining here, instead of enjoying the greatest latest game.

(And jsut in case you ask, i usually post when i am bored at work. Thus, you see me less in the evening when i am actually playing the games i talked about).

You are correct that the market hasent been in our favor these last what, 7 years? Most in part to WOWs huge success. With that said. The market as infact started to show signs that people are looking for something else. A modern MMos life span isent very long. a few short months if.

 

Our lack of a quality MMO is huge reason why we complaine here ther is no question about that. But perhaps all the bitching and complaing over the years and the long term success of modern MMOs will start to slide the bar back to our side again.

 

With games like EQN, AA, EoC, DF UHW, BD, WarZ, Salem and so on and so on, The future is looking up for us.

  xAPOCx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/25/12
Posts: 811

11/14/12 5:42:58 PM#255
Originally posted by Dahkot72
Originally posted by TheJoda
........yes there needs to be risks to enjoy the rewards or over all emersion in games.  Like in EQ 1 my necro would get /wispers " can you summon my corpse?" that helped build game community,  which games LACK now!

I loved those parts of true EQ (as in pre PoP expansion) also.

Necros for just that , you'd have bard taxi parties to run groups to far off spots , druid and wizard teleports to other locations etc ,

I left EQ because they slowly got rid of the virtual world feeling of the game , not because it was "too hard".

It become too unfun , too unlike it was at launch after PoP and went down from there for me.

all of this x10 =)

  User Deleted
11/14/12 5:49:43 PM#256

i want either a harsh death penalty or a very long leveling curve, im sick of mmorpg that i finish faster then my single player games.

I am pretty much done with this genre unless something change. I have playd it for 10 years and should't realy complain, but i can't help it though. When i finish my mmorpg faster then my single person games, i feel the main draw of this genre is over.

edit : Since wow i cant remeber the last game i playd past the 30 free days, i did sub an extra month to Tsw but since i never log in after doeing so i dont count it.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 19086

11/15/12 1:06:08 PM#257
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by nariusseldon

"real" accomplishment in a game? You are beating pixels. It is about whether it is fun or not. If i want real accomplishment, i will work another hour to do more work.

The only thing that is close to real accomplishments in games is e-sports. Other stuff is just artificial psychological drivers to entertain.

For many of us, which appears to be a growing number, overly easy breezy mmos are simply not fun. Fun is why we're all here, a fact that seems to elude you from reading your posts. There are certain types of people that are not as easy to entertain. More power to you though that you're finding such a vast sea of fun with the genre's current crop of titles. I guess it's almost like having a very low tolerance for alcohol; in the end it's nothing but a win win.

If you need a game to be impossible, time-consuming, and requiring huge commitment to be fun, i think you are out of step with the mainstream consumers. Thus, that is the reason why you are complaining here, instead of enjoying the greatest latest game.

(And jsut in case you ask, i usually post when i am bored at work. Thus, you see me less in the evening when i am actually playing the games i talked about).

You are correct that the market hasent been in our favor these last what, 7 years? Most in part to WOWs huge success. With that said. The market as infact started to show signs that people are looking for something else. A modern MMos life span isent very long. a few short months if.

 

Our lack of a quality MMO is huge reason why we complaine here ther is no question about that. But perhaps all the bitching and complaing over the years and the long term success of modern MMOs will start to slide the bar back to our side again.

 

With games like EQN, AA, EoC, DF UHW, BD, WarZ, Salem and so on and so on, The future is looking up for us.

quality is in the eye of the beholder. Anything that requires "wasting" 20 min to walk/talk before i can run a dungeon (or whatever the core gameplay is) is bad design to me ... and i am sure you have a different opinion.

I doubt the mainstream games are going to require people to commit their lives before it is fun. If you look at the big successes like LOL, it is all about jump in, and have fun fast.

However, the market is big. And there are smaller effort to give somethign different. Even point and click adventures are making a come back (like the Walking Dead Adv games).

Personally, i won't play a game that can't be played on my schedule, and fulfill my need for entertainment. However, i do wish you find what you are looking for.

  Jackdog

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/19/04
Posts: 6261

11/15/12 1:42:33 PM#258
since i have no desire to ever play another SOE game I say whenever you die a team from SOE should visit your house and give you a unanesthetized colonoscopy broadcast on live webcam and charge your credit card 100 dollars. Now that would be a incentive to stay alive

I miss DAoC

  Beacker

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/06
Posts: 426

11/15/12 2:17:18 PM#259
Hope it is just like EQ1. Where there is a chance to delevel. Dying in that game sucked let alone having to try to get your body back and the gear. I hope they implement all that. Miss the old EQ. I hate SOE but I guess If I want to play EQNext I gotta suck it up.
  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1880

11/17/12 11:28:46 AM#260
Originally posted by xAPOCx
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by CalmOceans
Originally posted by ice-vortex

Yet games that are considered unsuccessful have more subscribers  than Everquest ever had.

What games are that? EQ had 600k subscribers after the game was about 4 years old, concurrent users, not total, total it runs in the millions.

Which 4 year old games have 600k subscribers? Not many.

Which games still have 12 servers after 11 years? Not many.

GW2 probably doesn't even exist anymore in 11 years.

SoE released stats in their 10 year anniversiry video, 12 million characters were created in EQ.

 

60,000 people applied for beta

 

You can say a lot of stuff about EQ, that you didn't like the death penalty, that you didn't like the gameplay, claiming it wasn't successful just makes you ignorant.

EQ was the most successful MMO at the time, not UO, not Lineage, not AC, not DAOC, it wasn't until WOW came out that a game surpassed EQ in subscribers. What's more, those WoW designers were EQ players.

Nice padding of the numbers.  They reached 450K at peak around 2003.  They went through more than 1.5 million subscibers, but lost the majority of them due to harsh gameplay.  Enter a more casual EQ2 to catch those gamers who couldn't stand how hardcore most of the Original EQ was.  EQ still has a pretty strong following, estimations would seem to be below the 100k mark.  Keep in mind that you now have an EQ with no corpse runs as you can summon your corpse with NPC's at the guild lobby so you can use a resurrection spell for some XP return and you don't leave loot on the corpses anymore either.  You have a huge teleport hub in the Plane of Knowledge, so travel is incredibly easy and fast.  You now have mercenaries that let you solo to your heart's content.  Potions for everything and the list goes on.  So, tell me, what exactly is it about this game that helps retain players when most of the hardcore, time wasting mechanics are gone? 

Wrong. It lost them to other games such as daoc/wow/eve.

nostalgia

Wrong, they were bleeding subs long before DAoC / WoW and Eve was even more hardcore, so that argument doesn't make sense. DAoC came out in 2002 and never peaked above 250K subscriptions.  WoW didn't release till 2004 and it released a couple of weeks after EQ2.  EQ's peak subscriptions were reached in 2003 and according to a statement made by Smedly when asked why they were making EQ2, he had said that by the time the original EQ peaked in 2003, more than 1.5 million players had tried the game, but they could never retain more than 450k, so that combined with DAoC's low numbers would completely disprove your comment.  They lost a lot more subs once EQ2 released, but had been hemmorhaging long before that.  Once WoW came along, casuals had their first real  game to call home and all bets were off at that point.

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