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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » New dungeon will give us stronger armour

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314 posts found
  KhinRunite

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/05/10
Posts: 897

11/13/12 8:18:01 PM#281

After gathering more information, I'm back on the "nothing to worry about" train. Things just look wrong on the surface

I will enjoy the Lost Shores for sure. :)

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5509

11/13/12 8:33:15 PM#282
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

No, the legendary are going to mirror ascendamt - at the moment legendary are exactly the same as exotic, so legendary will be boosted to match.

Yes, that is true, but I don't think it is a bad thing.  I don't mind progression at all, but I just don't want them to abandon their long standing gear and progression philosophy.  It will be interesting to see if they can pull it off because while the game shares a lot with GW1 it isn't the same.

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  Raekon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 551

11/14/12 3:58:19 AM#283
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Raekon
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

In GW1 infusion was done in existing armor.

 

Then there were things like lightbringer rank that was used to fight Abbadon Minions.

The infusion could still exist by allowing you to upgrade existing armor/items into ascended by doing the dungeon/complating quests.

There is no need for another tier of items.

You would have stuff to do, grind to do with 0 impact in any other part of the game.

It is just bad design choices.

Yeah that's true that it was on the existing armor but you obviously ignored the part in which I said that they connect the new armor with new future contents.

Which means we won't get it yet anyway and that the backpack and the rings are just a small piece of them to introduce these things.

Also obvious that the impact will barely be there at all for WvsWvsW for know reasons and for the fact that legendary items already exists since the beginning and will remain to be the top tier.

Remember in GW1 the elite armors?

There were "normal versions" and there were "exclusive" versions.

This is handled here through skins and stats through the dungeons, crafting and so on and it's the same case here.

Having 3 more points on your stats then me doesn't matter much since in WvsWvsW as I said before it does nothing and you can die as easily if you get zerged.

In dungeons it won't matter either if I play better than you do.

In PvE outside I could care less what you do since it doesn't affect me or anyone else at all.

Legendary items have the same stats as exotics.

Elite armors have same stats as Normal in GW1 - 10K hours GW1 veteran here.

I always loved that warrior with chaos gloves, obsidian armor and obsidan edge that had no clue how to vanquish one of the northern shiverpeak areas with 3 dolyak master group or had no idea how to do slavers hm, while I with normal armor could do it with my eyes closed.

You know why?

Because it was all about skill.

The bigger the stats differences between tiers the least skill can show off. So it is either grind or be less powerful.

Good to know I'm talking with another GW1 Veteran. :)

With that said and as you could see yourself, these 3 points won't change much on the stats so one can't go and say "I have a ascended armor and because of that I'll do better than you with exotics", unless a infusion is needed that the exotic armor won't have.

As they already stated that's also the whole point of the ascended armor, it is introduced for lore purposes and for the stronger future contents that will come our way for the level 80 people.

The legendary items won't lose their value either cause they will get set on the ascended stats anyway.

We also still don't quite know if the ascended is meant for certain areas/dungeons only since in the article, it mentions the expansion of the dungeon and later content additions.

The fact that I was able to even kill people that were higher than me with my level 11- 21 characters in WvsWvsW and without help, already shows that the game still is about skill.

My elementalist is level 80 and I don't have even one single piece of exotics on.

I still survive very well in WvsWvsW against others that have some on and that's something the ascendend armor won't change either.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2549

11/14/12 5:35:23 AM#284
Originally posted by Raekon

Good to know I'm talking with another GW1 Veteran. :)

With that said and as you could see yourself, these 3 points won't change much on the stats so one can't go and say "I have a ascended armor and because of that I'll do better than you with exotics", unless a infusion is needed that the exotic armor won't have.

As they already stated that's also the whole point of the ascended armor, it is introduced for lore purposes and for the stronger future contents that will come our way for the level 80 people.

The legendary items won't lose their value either cause they will get set on the ascended stats anyway.

We also still don't quite know if the ascended is meant for certain areas/dungeons only since in the article, it mentions the expansion of the dungeon and later content additions.

The fact that I was able to even kill people that were higher than me with my level 11- 21 characters in WvsWvsW and without help, already shows that the game still is about skill.

My elementalist is level 80 and I don't have even one single piece of exotics on.

I still survive very well in WvsWvsW against others that have some on and that's something the ascendend armor won't change either.

Stronger content = higher stats mobs that require higher stats gear to equalize is poor content design.

You should know that being a GW1 veteran - eye of the north charr and stone summit (espicially slaver's exile) were some of the thoughest mobs in the game, not because they were the higher stats mobs in the game since they weren't, but because they had better team builds (some of the builds mimmicked human builds). Of course with time an skill power creep Ai got crushed, but AI always do.

A level 80 wolf is as hard/easy as a level 1 wolf if they simply use the same skills and same tactics, one just require higher stats by part of the player to match it - dodging a 500 damage attack when you have 575 health is as easy as dodging a 5000 damage attack when you have 5750 health.

In fact legendaries just became much better - now it is the only items guaranteed to be bis. Ascendant, Ascendant 2.0, Ascendant 3.0, meh, my legendaries auto uprade and I can ignore all the new grind.

A person with exotic items is more powerful than one with full rares, there is no pretending it isn't and two players of equal skill with exotcis will beat one with rares. An ascendant equiped player will be that rare one even easier.

Just being in WvW (works in PvE as well) will give you bonuses based on how good your server is doing, like maximum health, endurance, more healin, better healing, etc.

I know very well that ascendant has higher stats than exotics with gems - stats work everywhere. The infusion might or not work in other places, we don't know that (I doubt it will work).

Again, IGNORING INFUSION, Ascendant has HIGHER STATS than EXOTICS WITH A GEM.

Ascendant stats COVER THE LOSS OF THE GEM AND ADD ON TOP of THAT.

 

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  judex99

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/08
Posts: 397

11/14/12 5:55:49 AM#285
Gear grind... wtf are they thinking?
  Raekon

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/04
Posts: 551

11/14/12 6:41:54 AM#286
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by Raekon

Good to know I'm talking with another GW1 Veteran. :)

With that said and as you could see yourself, these 3 points won't change much on the stats so one can't go and say "I have a ascended armor and because of that I'll do better than you with exotics", unless a infusion is needed that the exotic armor won't have.

As they already stated that's also the whole point of the ascended armor, it is introduced for lore purposes and for the stronger future contents that will come our way for the level 80 people.

The legendary items won't lose their value either cause they will get set on the ascended stats anyway.

We also still don't quite know if the ascended is meant for certain areas/dungeons only since in the article, it mentions the expansion of the dungeon and later content additions.

The fact that I was able to even kill people that were higher than me with my level 11- 21 characters in WvsWvsW and without help, already shows that the game still is about skill.

My elementalist is level 80 and I don't have even one single piece of exotics on.

I still survive very well in WvsWvsW against others that have some on and that's something the ascendend armor won't change either.

Stronger content = higher stats mobs that require higher stats gear to equalize is poor content design.

You should know that being a GW1 veteran - eye of the north charr and stone summit (espicially slaver's exile) were some of the thoughest mobs in the game, not because they were the higher stats mobs in the game since they weren't, but because they had better team builds (some of the builds mimmicked human builds). Of course with time an skill power creep Ai got crushed, but AI always do.

A level 80 wolf is as hard/easy as a level 1 wolf if they simply use the same skills and same tactics, one just require higher stats by part of the player to match it - dodging a 500 damage attack when you have 575 health is as easy as dodging a 5000 damage attack when you have 5750 health.

In fact legendaries just became much better - now it is the only items guaranteed to be bis. Ascendant, Ascendant 2.0, Ascendant 3.0, meh, my legendaries auto uprade and I can ignore all the new grind.

A person with exotic items is more powerful than one with full rares, there is no pretending it isn't and two players of equal skill with exotcis will beat one with rares. An ascendant equiped player will be that rare one even easier.

Just being in WvW (works in PvE as well) will give you bonuses based on how good your server is doing, like maximum health, endurance, more healin, better healing, etc.

I know very well that ascendant has higher stats than exotics with gems - stats work everywhere. The infusion might or not work in other places, we don't know that (I doubt it will work).

Again, IGNORING INFUSION, Ascendant has HIGHER STATS than EXOTICS WITH A GEM.

Ascendant stats COVER THE LOSS OF THE GEM AND ADD ON TOP of THAT.

 

 

I agree that it equals weak design when people add higher stats to equal harder mobs which are also based on higher stats only.

However, that's something we don't really know cause "stronger content" could also mean:

 -  more difficult dungeons

-  more difficult enemies as the AI using additional tactics they are given through environment, traps and such to make our life even harder than it already can be, instead of having higher stats only.

As about GW1 I indeed "hated" the slavers exile and mostly the hard mode on places, cause if you went alone or with heroes (even with a full team sometimes), you mostly ended up at 60% death penalty in no time. :p

I didn't say that someone with exotics isn't stronger than someone with rares or green/blue items.

However, I saw level 35 people with green/blue items in the AC (as example), surviving much longer than level 80s with exotic or rare gear.

This fact already speaks for itself in my opinion that if you don't know how to play your character well, no gear will help you in GW2.

Yes the ascended items are adding +2 to +3 points over the stats of a exotic with gems in the rings case but even if it adds like that for the armor, it's still not gamebreaking, nor does it have to mean that .

The gem on the exotics also gives you more combination possibilities cause you can mix things up through them more.

In the ascended case you are going with what you have and that's it.

  pedrostrik

Novice Member

Joined: 4/07/10
Posts: 400

11/14/12 8:31:56 AM#287

why people are never happy at all, all they want its to cater a little some ''hardcore'' pve'rs nothing special or unbalanced about that, we must be happy and talk about they are bringing new dungeons or new content, move on m8´s.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2549

11/14/12 8:51:56 AM#288
Originally posted by Raekon

I agree that it equals weak design when people add higher stats to equal harder mobs which are also based on higher stats only.

However, that's something we don't really know cause "stronger content" could also mean:

 -  more difficult dungeons

-  more difficult enemies as the AI using additional tactics they are given through environment, traps and such to make our life even harder than it already can be, instead of having higher stats only.

As about GW1 I indeed "hated" the slavers exile and mostly the hard mode on places, cause if you went alone or with heroes (even with a full team sometimes), you mostly ended up at 60% death penalty in no time. :p

I didn't say that someone with exotics isn't stronger than someone with rares or green/blue items.

However, I saw level 35 people with green/blue items in the AC (as example), surviving much longer than level 80s with exotic or rare gear.

This fact already speaks for itself in my opinion that if you don't know how to play your character well, no gear will help you in GW2.

Yes the ascended items are adding +2 to +3 points over the stats of a exotic with gems in the rings case but even if it adds like that for the armor, it's still not gamebreaking, nor does it have to mean that .

The gem on the exotics also gives you more combination possibilities cause you can mix things up through them more.

In the ascended case you are going with what you have and that's it.

Again challenge has nothing to do with stats, so challenge can increase without changing stats, vide the mad king clock tower, no stats involved.

Since challenge isn't tied to stats we can drop that argument.

The second argument isn't very interesting - balance is always done at highest skill levels.

Beating a "noob" with a handicap doesn't meant the handicap isn't there, just means the skill gap is bigger than that.

So, this argument is also void.

The ring -. it is an example that shows exotic->ascendant differences. There will be rings matching all the possible exotic configurations.

Again, if ascendent weren't bis, legendaries wouldn't be updated to match ascendant stats.

Once again, void argument.

They are adding +stats because (some) people equate that to more power and progression.

It is all there.

I, that i'm not a game designer, could add te content, the skins, the infusion and agony mechanic without adding a tier of items that added more stats.

Anet is adding more stats because they want to since they are equating stats with power and progression.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  arctarus

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/26/06
Posts: 2580

11/14/12 10:32:36 AM#289

When some of us here say that gw2 need a carrot on a stick to keep the players, maintain the pop, keep WvW going, gw2 fanboys swarm in and say its all about fun, challange etc...

They fail to realise that without a carrot for players, without a goal they will soon leave.

Anet see this on the stats on their servers pop, and thus implement it.

We need to realise that a mmo need some sort of tangible goal for players to achieve, cosmetic just wont cut it anymore!

I just hope that from now onwards, all of you here will realise that for a themepark mmo, inregardless of how they mask it, a gear progression is the necessary evil.

 

Dont ever jump onto a theme park mmo that promise otherwise anymore....

 

 

 

 

RIP Orc Choppa

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2549

11/14/12 12:24:36 PM#290
Originally posted by arctarus

When some of us here say that gw2 need a carrot on a stick to keep the players, maintain the pop, keep WvW going, gw2 fanboys swarm in and say its all about fun, challange etc...

They fail to realise that without a carrot for players, without a goal they will soon leave.

Anet see this on the stats on their servers pop, and thus implement it.

We need to realise that a mmo need some sort of tangible goal for players to achieve, cosmetic just wont cut it anymore!

I just hope that from now onwards, all of you here will realise that for a themepark mmo, inregardless of how they mask it, a gear progression is the necessary evil.

 

Dont ever jump onto a theme park mmo that promise otherwise anymore....

You mean the donkeys will leave while the players will be waiting for new toys to play and tinker with.

And of course, the donkeys that actually come back will be leaving again the moment they get the new carrot.

Well maybe 10% power increase will be enough for them to do the old dungeons without graveyard zerging.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2549

11/14/12 12:26:58 PM#291
Originally posted by pedrostrik

why people are never happy at all, all they want its to cater a little some ''hardcore'' pve'rs nothing special or unbalanced about that, we must be happy and talk about they are bringing new dungeons or new content, move on m8´s.

Hardcore PvE'rs?

They left before getting legendary weapons because they add no stats!

Hardcore PvE'rs get GWAMM for no reward or play for 5 years with barely no content updates.

Those "hardcore PvE'rs" want raids with 30 people where only a couple get items.

Those "hardcore PvE'rs" want their tanks and healers because they can't stay alive since speccing defense and offense is too hard.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4388

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

11/14/12 1:27:49 PM#292
It's not about the gear. It's about what we can do because of it.

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  Torvaldr

Elite Member

Joined: 6/10/09
Posts: 5509

11/14/12 2:29:48 PM#293
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
It's not about the gear. It's about what we can do because of it.

Okay, I'll bite.  What can we do becuase of it?

I think a mind wipe so people could play an mmo like it was their first time again, would be easier to build than a new mmo people here would actually like. - DamonVile

  GeezerGamer

Elite Member

Joined: 4/03/12
Posts: 4388

It's a combination of Nightingale Armor with the Mod Truebound Deadric Armors

11/14/12 2:54:15 PM#294
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
It's not about the gear. It's about what we can do because of it.

Okay, I'll bite.  What can we do becuase of it?

Really? You don't understand? Or are you just baiting me?

Recently started playing SWTOR. I am posting updates to my experience in this thread:
SWTOR Experience

  scarykids2

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/10
Posts: 67

"There are no secrets in life, just hidden truths that lie beneath the surface." - Dexter

11/14/12 3:10:44 PM#295

i quite enjoy reading the anarchy going on all the time with GW2. in my eyes it already flopped, i don't care about it nor do i care about peope defending it. but what i don't get is why people keep saying it takes skill to play.

5 weapon abilities, and 5 utility skills. and it really must take some skill to move your character i mean, even a monkey would move out of the way in a poo throwing war. GW2 is just simplistic is all. it holds comfort for those who enjoyed gw1, however, they are trying to revolutionize the genre. failing pretty hard there. it's like they got shot in both knee caps and are attempting to escape. 

i do, however, like the fact that they added a new gearset and are doing a very interesting dungeon. i also love the fact that Anet went back on their word about grinding way before they decided to implement this. ahahaha GG anet GG.

  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

11/14/12 3:14:01 PM#296
https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside
  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2378

11/14/12 3:17:20 PM#297

WoW!  Harder dungeons give you better items!?

 

Why has no other developer thought of this!  Brilliant!

 

/Sarcasm Off

  scarykids2

Novice Member

Joined: 4/21/10
Posts: 67

"There are no secrets in life, just hidden truths that lie beneath the surface." - Dexter

11/14/12 3:18:13 PM#298
Originally posted by DAS1337

WoW!  Harder dungeons give you better items!?

 

Why has not other developer thought of this!  Brilliant!

 

/Sarcasm Off

ahahah this guy has it. 

  DAS1337

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2378

11/14/12 3:18:58 PM#299
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by GeezerGamer
It's not about the gear. It's about what we can do because of it.

Okay, I'll bite.  What can we do becuase of it?

Really? You don't understand? Or are you just baiting me?

He's asking you a question that you can't answer.  It's a good question.

 

You can go to an even harder dungeon to get even better loot... to go into meaningless PvP instances to get even better loot... to go to another dungeon and get better loot... 

 

Yeah, not much of a real point.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2549

11/14/12 3:51:36 PM#300
Originally posted by scarykids2

i quite enjoy reading the anarchy going on all the time with GW2. in my eyes it already flopped, i don't care about it nor do i care about peope defending it. but what i don't get is why people keep saying it takes skill to play.

5 weapon abilities, and 5 utility skills. and it really must take some skill to move your character i mean, even a monkey would move out of the way in a poo throwing war. GW2 is just simplistic is all. it holds comfort for those who enjoyed gw1, however, they are trying to revolutionize the genre. failing pretty hard there. it's like they got shot in both knee caps and are attempting to escape. 

i do, however, like the fact that they added a new gearset and are doing a very interesting dungeon. i also love the fact that Anet went back on their word about grinding way before they decided to implement this. ahahaha GG anet GG.

On the other hand I keep reading the complaints about graveyard zerging - maybe it is hard to move out from a red circle when the red circles are covering all the floor and you have a few enemies shooting at you.

And yeah some 7000 posts in a forum really means a dying game...

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

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