Originally posted by FrodoFragins
My hope is that all of this will simply lead to a much improved OpenGL that can compete with and theoretically overtake DirectX.

If you could manage to get all of the opensource/linux "devs" together instead of everyone fighting for their own little unique snowflake piece of the pie like they've done the past 20+ years ( thus neutering the development of the opensource code they all "love" so much ), it would have been done already and Windows/ would be the second most used OS and directX the minority architecture.

Even the "big boys" like Red Hat, etc. are/were more concerned with making their linux version "unique" rather than a viable Windows alternative.

The reason directX won over openGL is because it is A.) simple to program/use and B.) has a uniform structure.

The same reason Windows itself has buried linux since forever.

Originally posted by hfztt

As someone who has Windows 8 installed, I will say they will need gunpoint arguments to get people to switch.

Its bad. Not even Vista bad. More like Win ME bad. Yeah really. THAT bad.

Its not that I dont like what they are trying to do, I knda do. Its just that the products is so unfinished and bug ridden, that it is not even funny.

LOL, what? You've clearly not even used Windows 8 at all. I've been running it since launch and have had no issues. I really enjoyed Windows 7, but 8 is clearly much faster and has some nice improvements (Task Manager). Some of the apps in Metro are quite good as well.

Steam works perfectly as do all of the games I play. 

Windows ME and Vista were truly awful; Windows 8 is quite nice. If anyone has any doubts about it, try going into a retail store and playing around with it for while. I demo it for customers at work all the time and the majority of them like it.

If you don't like it after honestly giving it a try, then that's your right, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it's another Vista or ME.

Originally posted by Bainwalker

I got a copy of Windows 8 free through my school and I have zero complaints about the OS on a meaningful level.  It's more having to adapt to the new layout.  I don't get the Windows 8 hate... not like this is Vista 2.0

 

Try it before you hate on it.

It looks ugly as **** on a monitor. No reason to try something that looks like trash.

....

Originally posted by Bainwalker

I got a copy of Windows 8 free through my school and I have zero complaints about the OS on a meaningful level.  It's more having to adapt to the new layout.  I don't get the Windows 8 hate... not like this is Vista 2.0

 

Try it before you hate on it.

Yep, adjusting to some new ways has been the hardest part.  I love it.  Mine looks like Win7 without the start bubble.  I don't really think about it being a new OS.  I love the new start menu and quick search.  I love that I can customize my start menu just how I want.  I also love how my Microsoft account integrates into the OS and in Office.

Office 2013 is by far their best improvement this release.  Outlook is the best version yet.  Again, with office it will take a little adjustment, but I think it's a huge improvement.

As for DX 11.1 and the OPs hypothesis... I don't think so at all.  Devs will use the version of DirectX that they're familiar with and has the widest audience.  DX11 is just seeing somewhat common use and it's on Win7, the most widely used OS on the planet.  It will happen eventually after Win8 gains momentum.

Originally posted by zenryoku

Originally posted by hfztt

As someone who has Windows 8 installed, I will say they will need gunpoint arguments to get people to switch.

Its bad. Not even Vista bad. More like Win ME bad. Yeah really. THAT bad.

Its not that I dont like what they are trying to do, I knda do. Its just that the products is so unfinished and bug ridden, that it is not even funny.

LOL, what? You've clearly not even used Windows 8 at all. I've been running it since launch and have had no issues. I really enjoyed Windows 7, but 8 is clearly much faster and has some nice improvements (Task Manager). Some of the apps in Metro are quite good as well.

Steam works perfectly as do all of the games I play. 

Windows ME and Vista were truly awful; Windows 8 is quite nice. If anyone has any doubts about it, try going into a retail store and playing around with it for while. I demo it for customers at work all the time and the majority of them like it.

If you don't like it after honestly giving it a try, then that's your right, but don't delude yourself into thinking that it's another Vista or ME.

That part there Mr. Gates, made my left eyebrow raise.

Ehhh Windows 8 still has a ways to go. My sound randomly stops working until I disable the speakers and reenable them under Hardware and sound (not just mute and unmute). Sadly I was on the latest Windows 8 driver for them too.

Also had a lot of issues getting my G400 mouse to be programmable.

For now I am back with Windows 7... Windows 8 with Start8 is not horrible.. but I would never use it without Start8. At least it makes it more Windows 7 like then lol.

Originally posted by Kilrain

Originally posted by hfztt

As someone who has Windows 8 installed, I will say they will need gunpoint arguments to get people to switch.

Its bad. Not even Vista bad. More like Win ME bad. Yeah really. THAT bad.

Its not that I dont like what they are trying to do, I knda do. Its just that the products is so unfinished and bug ridden, that it is not even funny.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I've ran win8 release preview excusively for months and it worked flawlessly, just as good as windows 7 and sometimes better. It definitely starts much faster than win7 sometimes feels instant. The ONLY thing throwing people off is the metro UI, which you don't need to use.

Is there an incentive to switch from win7 to win8? Not unless you want a laptop/tablet combo or just a tablet. But if you were to switch, metro UI is the only thing you would notice being different, and like I said before, you don't have to use it.

I DO know what i am talking about.

* The standard metro apps actaully have a lot of bugs. Try using them.

* I work a lot from home. At work my pc is Win 7 and I remote desktop to it. After the Win8 upgrade the remote desktop client (mstsc.exe) simply crashes after a few minutes every time I start it.

* The idea of Metro start screen is a nice idea, it just have more usablity issues than use can shake a stick at currently. Especially or a normal non-touch PC. Example: If you want to start a random program whiloe on your desktop, you have to swtich to Metro, right click on blank area, press show all apps in the pop up. Wait for the programs app to load, then sidescroll to find your old programs menu items. Hell yeah, thats usablity gone wrong for you.

* If you thought the old lower right corner pop up boxes annoyed you, the new purple larger square box that slide in from the right will make you jump out a window. And that one really gets funny if you open, say a media file, that has an app that COULOD play it. Then it informs you EVERY TIME you open it with a non metro app that there is a metro app that could play it. Does it have a "Go away and staty away" button? Nah...

I do know what i am talking about. I have been a MS man since Win 95. And I tell you, Win 8 is full of good intentions, (so was Win ME mind you) it just does not cut it as a replacement for Win7. That said I am Sure that one a pure WinRT device, it will work nicely, once they sort out the bugs in the standard Metro apps. But as a replacement for Win7 on a non touch device? No. Just, no.

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by Kilrain

Originally posted by hfztt

As someone who has Windows 8 installed, I will say they will need gunpoint arguments to get people to switch.

Its bad. Not even Vista bad. More like Win ME bad. Yeah really. THAT bad.

Its not that I dont like what they are trying to do, I knda do. Its just that the products is so unfinished and bug ridden, that it is not even funny.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I've ran win8 release preview excusively for months and it worked flawlessly, just as good as windows 7 and sometimes better. It definitely starts much faster than win7 sometimes feels instant. The ONLY thing throwing people off is the metro UI, which you don't need to use.

Is there an incentive to switch from win7 to win8? Not unless you want a laptop/tablet combo or just a tablet. But if you were to switch, metro UI is the only thing you would notice being different, and like I said before, you don't have to use it.

I DO know what i am talking about.

* The standard metro apps actaully have a lot of bugs. Try using them.

* I work a lot from home. At work my pc is Win 7 and I remote desktop to it. After the Win8 upgrade the remote desktop client (mstsc.exe) simply crashes after a few minutes every time I start it.

* The idea of Metro start screen is a nice idea, it just have more usablity issues than use can shake a stick at currently. Especially or a normal non-touch PC. Example: If you want to start a random program whiloe on your desktop, you have to swtich to Metro, right click on blank area, press show all apps in the pop up. Wait for the programs app to load, then sidescroll to find your old programs menu items. Hell yeah, thats usablity gone wrong for you.

* If you thought the old lower right corner pop up boxes annoyed you, the new purple larger square box that slide in from the right will make you jump out a window. And that one really gets funny if you open, say a media file, that has an app that COULOD play it. Then it informs you EVERY TIME you open it with a non metro app that there is a metro app that could play it. Does it have a "Go away and staty away" button? Nah...

I do know what i am talking about. I have been a MS man since Win 95. And I tell you, Win 8 is full of good intentions, (so was Win ME mind you) it just does not cut it as a replacement for Win7. That said I am Sure that one a pure WinRT device, it will work nicely, once they sort out the bugs in the standard Metro apps. But as a replacement for Win7 on a non touch device? No. Just, no.

Boot up.

Take 1 second to click on "Desktop" image in Metro, goodbye Metro hello standard Windows desktop.

Right click where the Start button would be normally ( you know, the lower left corner? ) and *BAMM!* there's the Start menu.

It's not rocket science, I assure you.

Just the average PC user making everything more difficult than need be.

Oh, well. Best operating system yet and it only cost me $15 to buy it. So I'm happy even if you're not.

MAC OSX / iOS will be the future of gaming!

*raises fists to heaven*

:P

Windows 7 is the best windows in the existence of man kind. There is no way I am switching to 8. I will probably go for 9 which will probably have all the crap in 8 fixed.

People still use XP? After using Windows 7 I just can't go back to that horrible Windows!

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by Kilrain

Originally posted by hfztt

As someone who has Windows 8 installed, I will say they will need gunpoint arguments to get people to switch.

Its bad. Not even Vista bad. More like Win ME bad. Yeah really. THAT bad.

Its not that I dont like what they are trying to do, I knda do. Its just that the products is so unfinished and bug ridden, that it is not even funny.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. I've ran win8 release preview excusively for months and it worked flawlessly, just as good as windows 7 and sometimes better. It definitely starts much faster than win7 sometimes feels instant. The ONLY thing throwing people off is the metro UI, which you don't need to use.

Is there an incentive to switch from win7 to win8? Not unless you want a laptop/tablet combo or just a tablet. But if you were to switch, metro UI is the only thing you would notice being different, and like I said before, you don't have to use it.

I DO know what i am talking about.

* The standard metro apps actaully have a lot of bugs. Try using them.

* I work a lot from home. At work my pc is Win 7 and I remote desktop to it. After the Win8 upgrade the remote desktop client (mstsc.exe) simply crashes after a few minutes every time I start it.

* The idea of Metro start screen is a nice idea, it just have more usablity issues than use can shake a stick at currently. Especially or a normal non-touch PC. Example: If you want to start a random program whiloe on your desktop, you have to swtich to Metro, right click on blank area, press show all apps in the pop up. Wait for the programs app to load, then sidescroll to find your old programs menu items. Hell yeah, thats usablity gone wrong for you.

* If you thought the old lower right corner pop up boxes annoyed you, the new purple larger square box that slide in from the right will make you jump out a window. And that one really gets funny if you open, say a media file, that has an app that COULOD play it. Then it informs you EVERY TIME you open it with a non metro app that there is a metro app that could play it. Does it have a "Go away and staty away" button? Nah...

I do know what i am talking about. I have been a MS man since Win 95. And I tell you, Win 8 is full of good intentions, (so was Win ME mind you) it just does not cut it as a replacement for Win7. That said I am Sure that one a pure WinRT device, it will work nicely, once they sort out the bugs in the standard Metro apps. But as a replacement for Win7 on a non touch device? No. Just, no.

There are a couple tips for interacting and starting programs I would recommend.

1. The obvious is to pin the apps you use most to your start menu and/or task bar.

2. If you want to quickly access the start menu from the desktop hit the windows key.

3. If you want to quickly start an app that isn't pinned: Hit the Windows key and start typing.  It works just like start / search in Win7.  If your app is the first on your search list you can hit enter.  If it's not then you will have to click on it or use your arrow keys to navigate.

4. If you're in the start menu (or search) and want to navigate back to the desktop you can simply hit your Windows key again.  The caveat here is that you must have the desktop open for the Win Hotkey back to the desktop to work.  When I first get into Windows I usually start my browser or Outlook and that takes me to the desktop and keeps it open.

5. There are a ton of ways to do things in Win8.  It's actually very flexible.  For example, I VPN and RDP a lot to a lot of different locations.  I can use the Win8 flyout to access my vpn conns, or I can create a shortcut to my PBK (remote access phonebook file) file in my user settings, or I can create a Windows shortcut that calls rasphone.exe via command line with the vpn name.  I can store those shortcuts in a place where I can pin them to my start menu or taskbar.  If you have a lot you can put them in a folder and add that folder as a custom toolbar to your taskbar.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

There are a couple tips for interacting and starting programs I would recommend.

1. The obvious is to pin the apps you use most to your start menu and/or task bar.

2. If you want to quickly access the start menu from the desktop hit the windows key.

3. If you want to quickly start an app that isn't pinned: Hit the Windows key and start typing.  It works just like start / search in Win7.  If your app is the first on your search list you can hit enter.  If it's not then you will have to click on it or use your arrow keys to navigate

4. If you're in the start menu (or search) and want to navigate back to the desktop you can simply hit your Windows key again.  The caveat here is that you must have the desktop open for the Win Hotkey back to the desktop to work.  When I first get into Windows I usually start my browser or Outlook and that takes me to the desktop and keeps it open.

5. There are a ton of ways to do things in Win8.  It's actually very flexible.  For example, I VPN and RDP a lot to a lot of different locations.  I can use the Win8 flyout to access my vpn conns, or I can create a shortcut to my PBK (remote access phonebook file) file in my user settings, or I can create a Windows shortcut that calls rasphone.exe via command line with the vpn name.  I can store those shortcuts in a place where I can pin them to my start menu or taskbar.  If you have a lot you can put them in a folder and add that folder as a custom toolbar to your taskbar.

Did you read my message?

Its not that the INTENTIONS in Win 8 are bad. I know there is a lot of stuff you can do in it. But like Vista and ME the actual IMPLEMENTATION is flawed and bug ridden.

Originally posted by lizardbones

Ok, let your paranoia run wild about Microsoft's plan to control the gaming market.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/12/3634852/microsoft-directx-11-1-windows-8

What does this mean in the long term? Any games that rely on DirectX 11.1 will only run under Windows 8. I'm not sure how long that will take...I'm still running Windows XP so I expect it'll take awhile.

 You're only hurting yourself as a gamer by not using Windows 7 and sticking with WinXP... Get with the times brah!

Originally posted by Torvaldr

4. If you're in the start menu (or search) and want to navigate back to the desktop you can simply hit your Windows key again.  The caveat here is that you must have the desktop open for the Win Hotkey back to the desktop to work.  When I first get into Windows I usually start my browser or Outlook and that takes me to the desktop and keeps it open.

Actually hitting the Win key takes you back to the previous App if you are on the Metro menu or back to the Metro menu if you are in an app. The desktop is considered a single app in this context. So provided you dont use any metro apps you are right.

Originally posted by bigcheeseuk
I'm very happy with windows 7, it works well without issues, I dont see a point to Windows 8, just seems like another vista to me. Maybe the next OS may tempt me.

 I find the Windows 8 is better suited for handhelds...

MMOs are still DX9 based, and even upcoming AAA releases are DX9 based (TESO).
We don't even have true Dx10 less even DX11 mmos and just few support those modes additionaly to DX9.

DX11.1 is a meaningless gesture and in contrary to DX10 launch all Microsoft Games are console exclusive now (HALO franchise). (anyone remembers the horrid Halo2 PC on Vista version? urgh).

When Vista launched some important games had DX10, Lost planet, crysis etc.
There was also a reason to upgrade from XP and namingly x64 for over 4GB Ram (Windows XP x64 is horrid - dvice driver are scare)

Now anyone know's an DX11.1 game to play today or in 6 months?

The fundamental design flaw of W8 isn't that it tries to let you interact with your PC differently but it tries an "single application at a time" approach, which goes against the very design idea of WINDOWS itself (You know, that what made windows - WINDOWS!) Sure you have 20 apps running in the background and can switch, but people want their browser window next to their skype etc. The most sore point is this design change didn't happen because god knows why but just because tablets etc can't run to much at once either by hardware limitations or power consumption going to skyrocket. And who want's a 20 minute portable tablet :)

In short they want to chain the PC down to a tablets capability to reach the "unified" handling accross platforms. That's not gonna work out.

Originally posted by hfztt

Originally posted by Torvaldr

4. If you're in the start menu (or search) and want to navigate back to the desktop you can simply hit your Windows key again.  The caveat here is that you must have the desktop open for the Win Hotkey back to the desktop to work.  When I first get into Windows I usually start my browser or Outlook and that takes me to the desktop and keeps it open.

Actually hitting the Win key takes you back to the previous App if you are on the Metro menu or back to the Metro menu if you are in an app. The desktop is considered a single app in this context. So provided you dont use any metro apps you are right.

Yes, I should have been clear about that.  If you're in a modern app be sure to alt+F4 out of the app back to your previous window.  You can also use alt+tab to move around between apps or get directly back to the desktop from either the start menu or a metro app.

The new ribbon style explorer window is taking me the longest to get used to.

Originally posted by lizardbones

Ok, let your paranoia run wild about Microsoft's plan to control the gaming market.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/12/3634852/microsoft-directx-11-1-windows-8

What does this mean in the long term? Any games that rely on DirectX 11.1 will only run under Windows 8. I'm not sure how long that will take...I'm still running Windows XP so I expect it'll take awhile.

'what does this mean in the long term?'

Desktop users still won't buy Windows 8, regardless Microsoft's efforts and Windows 8 will find a nice place in history next to Windows Vista.

No sane developer is going to make games for DX11.1 if it's a Win 8 exlusive. It's like a scare tale for kids: "Buy Win 8 or you can't play the new games..."

My Win 7 with DX11 runs fine, you can keep your Win 8 , thanks.