Originally posted by Thorbrand

If you ever played PnP RPG you would understand. Full character customization and your own story development, not dev driven. Persistant world to live in and explore with dangers to over come.

Alignment based factions not this two faction stuff they have today. Alignment is based on race and class. Completely different game play depending on race and class.

True death penatlies. Don't forget the actual need to eat, drink and rest.

Night time was that night time! You couldn't see anything and undeand spawned all over the place.

Mobs that where challenging otherwise why would they be a treat to the city if they are so weak they would be extinct.

There are many more features that make a MMORPG that we haven't seen in years but everyone is on this single player bandwagon.

MMORPG was never meant for casual gamers just like PnP was never meant for casual gamers.

Because it isn't REAL nighttime if undead aren't spawning all over the place. And those fake RPGs like Wizardry and stuff where you pick your race and class AND choose alignment... care. bear. period.

Eat, drink and rest? That's it? Why just half-ass it with only eating and drinking? In a REAL RPG there would be pooping and lots of it.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by L0C0Man
Reading these forums, seems "Real MMORPG" = whatever MMO that existed before WoW... while I guess WoW and anything after it would be a "Fake MMORPG".. :)

Almost.

"Real MMO" is a game made with my favorite ruleset.  If none of those have been made, say in the last dozen years, obviously it is only further evidence of inescapable doom and the decline and fall of Western Civilization.  Plus any other dramatic overstatements I can dream up to tack on.

Almost, you meant to say a game made with "my" favorite ruleset.  The rest of the gaming world can go pound sand for all I care. 

Oh yeah, and  my favorite color is blue.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by nariusseldon
There is no such thing. MMO is just a label to put on a collection of games. Each have different features. The label is just for convenience.

Wrong.  Unfortunately, MMORPG has really blurred the lines of what is and what is not.  This site is more of a games site these days, rather than just a MMO site.

Right. This site has games on it that are not MMOs. GW1 is specifically NOT AN MMO, even the devs say it, yet it's on this site.

The original REAL definition of MMO, and what MMO vets refer to when we talk about them, are living seamless virtual worlds, that have thousands of players sharing the same space, with a focus on socializing/competition.

But, people can break down the acronym all they like to the point where it means nothing. You can call Call of Duty an RPG these days. You're playing a role, in a game! How does it not fit?

The real meaning behind the acronym has always been what I stated above, until it got coopted by big publishers who slapped it into their singleplayer games to justify a monthly fee. (see, SWTOR)

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Because it isn't REAL nighttime if undead aren't spawning all over the place. And those fake RPGs like Wizardry and stuff where you pick your race and class AND choose alignment... care. bear. period.

Eat, drink and rest? That's it? Why just half-ass it with only eating and drinking? In a REAL RPG there would be pooping and lots of it.

Er. Lok...better be careful, WoW Devs showed a remarkable resemblance to fecalphiliacs at several points in the quest design of Wrath.

And there was, in fact, an outhouse quest...

Originally posted by Kyleran

Oh yeah, and  my favorite color is blue.

Pink, dammit!  No one loves pink :sob:

Originally posted by FrodoFragins
There is definitely a segment of the population that feels an MMO must require grouping to level or do anything but craft or decorate an electronic doll house.

Uhh.. what? No, we just believe that grouping should be more rewarding than soloing, considering it's harder. And we believe that mechanics should encourage players to work together, not by themselves.

None of the pre WoW MMOs I played made it impossible to progress while solo.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by nariusseldon
There is no such thing. MMO is just a label to put on a collection of games. Each have different features. The label is just for convenience.

Wrong.  Unfortunately, MMORPG has really blurred the lines of what is and what is not.  This site is more of a games site these days, rather than just a MMO site.

Right. This site has games on it that are not MMOs. GW1 is specifically NOT AN MMO, even the devs say it, yet it's on this site.

 

The original REAL definition of MMO, and what MMO vets refer to when we talk about them, are living seamless virtual worlds, that have thousands of players sharing the same space, with a focus on socializing/competition.

But, people can break down the acronym all they like to the point where it means nothing. You can call Call of Duty an RPG these days. You're playing a role, in a game! How does it not fit?

The real meaning behind the acronym has always been what I stated above, until it got coopted by big publishers who slapped it into their singleplayer games to justify a monthly fee. (see, SWTOR)

First, most MMOs are going F2P, so this argument about monthly fee is just wrong. Even TOR which you call out, is going F2P. So what monthly fees?

Secondly, it is not meaningless if the term encompass only a SUBSET of games. Take all the games. Now look at those gaming press (or devs) are calling MMOs. They are not even half. No one is going to call COD a MMO, or even Borderlands.

As long as it does identify a subset of games, it is a useful label. And yes, it is different than before, but so what? Things always evolve. RPG itself is not the same as the PnP version. There is no reason why MMO has to stay the same forever.

Originally posted by nethervoid
It's funny what gets classified as an MMO these days. Like world of tanks. It's basically COD with tanks. They have a competative map, so they call it an MMO. Don't get me wrong I like the game, but it's anything but an MMO.

I won't object if this site is renamed to onlinegame.com. LOL is here. Diablo 3 is here. WOT is here.

Originally posted by mbd1968

 

So back to my original question, what is a Real MMO?

If that MMO can be transformed in to a paper and pen RPG,then its quite close.

Imagine random lft tools on paper and pen ,people who dont speak and tries to kill dungeon master and then farts.

UO is close but there is none ,mostly because MMORPG development stopped years ago.

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by mbd1968

 

So back to my original question, what is a Real MMO?

If that MMO can be transformed in to a paper and pen RPG,then its quite close.

Imagine random lft tools on paper and pen ,people who dont speak and tries to kill dungeon master and then farts.

UO is close but there is none ,mostly because MMORPG development stopped years ago.

 

 

 

Clear, I'm assuming.

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by L0C0Man
Reading these forums, seems "Real MMORPG" = whatever MMO that existed before WoW... while I guess WoW and anything after it would be a "Fake MMORPG".. :)

Almost.

"Real MMO" is a game made with my favorite ruleset.  If none of those have been made, say in the last dozen years, obviously it is only further evidence of inescapable doom and the decline and fall of Western Civilization.  Plus any other dramatic overstatements I can dream up to tack on.

There has to be something about indignation at the turn it's all taken hidden in there somewhere.  You can't have a real mmo and mmo community without indignation.

Originally posted by mbd1968

I'm asking this mainly to the UO and EQ vets as I never played them. My first MMO was EVE back in 2003/4 when peak was 3-4000 players (yes, I did't leave off a zero). At the time I had no clue exactly what an MMO was and thought I was just playing an online space game. The same can be said for SWG which was my next game (not sure if this was pre CU but it was defintely pre-NGE). It was only after I started playing the 'mmo that shall not be named' you know the one with lots of subs, and subsequent MMOs that I realized what an MMO was.

So back to my original question, what is a Real MMO?

Real mmorpg or real mmo, as the latter doesn't need to be an rpg?

I would say it's as it says, being able to play with a Massive amount or Multiple people in an Online Role Playing Game.  

Most games now barely seem to live up to an mo let alone an mmo(sometimes even just o).  

The rpg part I would require a seperate definition to the mmo part.

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by mbd1968

 

So back to my original question, what is a Real MMO?

If that MMO can be transformed in to a paper and pen RPG,then its quite close.

Imagine random lft tools on paper and pen ,people who dont speak and tries to kill dungeon master and then farts.

UO is close but there is none ,mostly because MMORPG development stopped years ago.

 

 

 

PnP RPG is never massive. That is not it.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by mbd1968

 

So back to my original question, what is a Real MMO?

If that MMO can be transformed in to a paper and pen RPG,then its quite close.

Imagine random lft tools on paper and pen ,people who dont speak and tries to kill dungeon master and then farts.

UO is close but there is none ,mostly because MMORPG development stopped years ago.

PnP RPG is never massive. That is not it.

Those were just as massive as your imagination was and im sorry to hear about your experiences.

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by mbd1968

 

So back to my original question, what is a Real MMO?

If that MMO can be transformed in to a paper and pen RPG,then its quite close.

Imagine random lft tools on paper and pen ,people who dont speak and tries to kill dungeon master and then farts.

UO is close but there is none ,mostly because MMORPG development stopped years ago.

PnP RPG is never massive. That is not it.

Those were just as massive as your imagination was and im sorry to hear about your experiences.

 

Is this thread going to devolve into a "massive vs. massively" fight?

If so: /popcorn

one that fullfills all the words in the acronym

most recent games dont really do the massive, multiplayer or role playing parts, once you hit endgame they are indistinguishable from other online games like CSGO or borderlands 2, instead of looking at a server list in a lobby you sit in a city and hit an auto queue or wait for your firends to come online.  Not much different.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Originally posted by nariusseldon
There is no such thing. MMO is just a label to put on a collection of games. Each have different features. The label is just for convenience.

Wrong.  Unfortunately, MMORPG has really blurred the lines of what is and what is not.  This site is more of a games site these days, rather than just a MMO site.

Right. This site has games on it that are not MMOs. GW1 is specifically NOT AN MMO, even the devs say it, yet it's on this site.

 

The original REAL definition of MMO, and what MMO vets refer to when we talk about them, are living seamless virtual worlds, that have thousands of players sharing the same space, with a focus on socializing/competition.

But, people can break down the acronym all they like to the point where it means nothing. You can call Call of Duty an RPG these days. You're playing a role, in a game! How does it not fit?

The real meaning behind the acronym has always been what I stated above, until it got coopted by big publishers who slapped it into their singleplayer games to justify a monthly fee. (see, SWTOR)

First, most MMOs are going F2P, so this argument about monthly fee is just wrong. Even TOR which you call out, is going F2P. So what monthly fees?

Secondly, it is not meaningless if the term encompass only a SUBSET of games. Take all the games. Now look at those gaming press (or devs) are calling MMOs. They are not even half. No one is going to call COD a MMO, or even Borderlands.

As long as it does identify a subset of games, it is a useful label. And yes, it is different than before, but so what? Things always evolve. RPG itself is not the same as the PnP version. There is no reason why MMO has to stay the same forever.

i would call borderlands an online RPG along side diablo 3 AND modern wow / swotr / tsw etc.. once you've leveled in them and you playtime consists of instances or sitting in cities waiting to visit an instance.  Its a neat trick "mmo" devs have played, replace the lobby with a city and suckas will pay a monthly sub.

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by ForumPvP

Originally posted by mbd1968

 

So back to my original question, what is a Real MMO?

If that MMO can be transformed in to a paper and pen RPG,then its quite close.

Imagine random lft tools on paper and pen ,people who dont speak and tries to kill dungeon master and then farts.

UO is close but there is none ,mostly because MMORPG development stopped years ago.

PnP RPG is never massive. That is not it.

Those were just as massive as your imagination was and im sorry to hear about your experiences.

 

Unless you are playing with imaginery friends. Whoever says pnp rpg is massive just haven't played one. If pnp RPG is massive, than Skyrim is massive too. After all, you can "imagine" all the NPCs are real people, right?