Originally posted by henryk

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by Aviggin

With the original FFXIV, they tried to change everything they could from the current themepark model, and they failed miserably. When the new game director stepped in and did a lot of surveys about what people wanted in the game, it turned out that the majority of people who took the surveys WANTED more WoW-like features to be added, or to replace the current systems in place.

FFXIV ARR is going to be the sum of those surveys and player feedback with some much improved graphics, animations, combat, and, hopefully, story, as well.

It's what the players wanted, and it's what the players are getting.

Are you serious? The person who directed FFXIV 1.0 said he was using WoW as his model os success.  I have mentioned, like 5 other times, how similar FFXIV 1.0 is to WoW.  Can you name some differences?  Expain yourself a little?

Where does it say that FFXIV was trying to be entirely original? Not a single person complained about FFXIV 1.0 graphics or animations. Guess what the current director is always talking about concerning ARR?  Graphics and animations.........

I read stuff like this, and I want to crawl in a hole and die. Aviggin, just because a game fails does not mean that it was trying to be original.....

 

Here's what you say about the similarities between FFXVI 1.0 and WoW. 

FFXIV might be a commercial success...................but what else would you call it a success in?  How many other games are commercial successes with absolutely nothing else to mention about them?

FFXIV took numerous concepts from WoW.  The heart of FFXIV is a shadow of WoW.  To be specific, every class in FFXIV is a hybrid, similar to WoW.  A conjurer can heal and do damage.  A paladin can take hits and deal damage.  Everything is pretty much given to you in both games.  Traveling, experiences points, armor, skills, are all handed out.  There is no real in-game danger in either game.  When you die your armor is damaged and you have to spend a negligable amount of money fixing it.  Both games are extremely solo friendly.  Both have short ladders to the top and make the journey to the top trivial.  I could go on and on...........  I try and come up with differences and I can only come up with names.  Chocobo vs. horse, white mage vs priest, name of such and such monster with such and such monster............

As someone who's been playing FFXIV 1.0 from beginning to end, and also played WOW up until WotLK, I believe they are quite different. I have also played EQ2 for over a year, LOTRO since launch, SWG since launch till NGE, TSW since launch, GW2 since launch. SWTOR for 6 months, for your info.

Not every class of FFXIV is a hybrid. While it is true that before the job system came about, the distinction between the melee classes weren't big in terms of individual skills, they are very different in how a player can build their character because each of the 7 classes (melee & magic) can equip up to a certain number of skills from other classes provided that 1) the same character already learned those skills as another class; 2) those skills are one of a subset of each class' available skills that could be learned by another class. That's right! FFXIV 1.0 (and 2.0) characters can level each and every single class individually. You could  decide to have no level as a gladiator, but play to lvl 20 in conjurer, lvl 30 in lancer, lvl 50 as a marauder. The same goes for Disciplines of Land (3 classes of material gatherers) and Disciplines of Craft (8 classes in total). Some people have hit lvl 50 in all 18 classes in ONE SINGLE TOON. Please tell me how is it similar to WOW, in which each toon can only be one combat-oriented class as the main class and a few crafting / gathering classes?? 

Conjurer (as a class) and Paladin (as a job -- it wasnt even in FFXIV until the last year or so) are professions that existed since single player FF games are around over a decade ago. Tell me, how are they a copy of WOW's ideas? EQ2 also have similar classes with different names. EQ2 came out literally at the same time as WOW. I don't think they copy it off of each other in their class design. Rather, all these fantasy-genre games are always getting the staple professions from traditional fantasy settings, and in terms of computer games, among the first to put in these classes would be games like Wizardy, Bard's Tale, and Ultima (not even online yet!). So, just having a paladin that heals and can fight is by no mean saying that FFXIV got the idea from WoW. Dungeons and Dragons had paladins that can fight and heal since the 1980's!!

Travelling is very different. In WOW your toon literally ride on pets or autorouted vehicles / monsters. There's only 1 "return home" point where you use your item to return to a certain location defined by the player. FFXIV also allow players to teleport to one location (later 2, with one being a city and one being a camp) with 'Return", but it also allows player to teleport to any camp they have discovered provided that something called anima is available. Riding pet (of which there are only two) did not come up until way after launch. So, most people travel to all kinds of locations using anima. That's not the same as WoW, in which the players really enjoy the physical "rides" on flying mounts or boats etc at the earlier period of the game.

Earning EXP is also very different. WOW in essence is a themepark game. FFXIV is mostly a sandbox game in terms of earning EXP. They have < 200 uniquie quests and most of the EXP are earned via levequests, which are repeatable quests from the few NPCs in town. Story based quests are available based on class levels (for class quests), highest class level ( for main story line quests), and later on from specific NPCs, job levels, and Grand Companies ranks. The story-based quests are very cohesive and many of them are tied to the big storyline. However, it is impossible to level your PC from level 1 to max (lvl 50) just doing storyline quests. Also, vast majority of players play multiple classes. In order to do so, they have to do repeatable quests. WOW? While they have repeatable quests, for those that are not at max level or earning reputations, they are not required to level. Rather players are moving from regions to higher level regions to pick up quests from quest hub NPCs. The one game which I found to be very similar to FFXIV in terms of earning EXPs was actually SWG. SWG players also get repeatable quests from mission terminals based on level range, and grind them day after day to gain EXP, as the themepart / quest hubs there were quite limited before NGE. Another similarity between SWG and FFXIV is that both allow player to progress in multiple class in one toon, wiith your toon using skills from multi-class in a specific "build".. The differences are that the "builds" from SWG are quite fixed (ie. you switch skills with penalty, meaning you basically forfeit the EXP earned to gain a skill if you want to switch out a skill). On the other hand, in FFXIV you can switch skills on the fly (when not in combat) as long as you switch your main weapon. In that sense, TSW's character progression is also similar. TSW is a themepark game but its character progression / skils wheels share some similarities between SWG and FFXIV, with some of their own twists. Anyway, the point is, WOW is very different from SWG or FFXIV in terms of character progression and EXP earning

Armor - while the function of armors ingame is similar between the two, so are the armor systems in most other fantasy genre MMORPG. While the individual parameters may be different, the idea's not that different from the AC-based systems fromm D&D which started ages ago. Even critical hit, etc came from D&D. The only one game I could think of that break the mode, at least aesthetically, is TSW. Toons there don't actually wear armors. They wear whatevery clothings they can buy (in game or with real money) / earn (from quests or achievements) with no stats.The stats are only in their assessories and weapons. In other words, assessories in TSW = armors in other games. Another game that gives players more freedom on how they look would be LOTRO (appearance can be separate from armors if players want to). To particular call out FFXIV's armor system as similar to WOW is similar to calling out humans and monkeys as similar because they are both primates. Are there similaries? There are! Are they identical? No way! Most current MMORPGs require minimal costs in fixing armors when damaged. Try to name a few game which cost you a fortune to fix damaged armors or are non-repairable when damaged and players have to buy a new set! Such a game may exist, but I bet that'd be a minority out there. (Vanguard or EQ1 maybe?? I am just guessing here as I haven't played both)

Extremely solo friendly?? I wouldn't call it a similarity. First of all, solo cannot get you even your job quests or Grand Company quests done in FFXIV! To get to even the "standard" in job armor or to be at the highest Grand Company ranking, you HAVE to do several quests in a group in dungeons / instances. How is that solo friendly? You could level all 7 combat classes in FFXIV to level 50 solo, but you won't be considered at the minimal efficiency of your jobs if you don't at least complete your job quests (which not only give you pieces of your job armors, but also some job skills. No quest completion which requires a group, no job skills. Also, that's a series of 4-5 prolonged quests for each job, not just one single quest). Same goes for main story line that led to the end of 1.0. Several of the quests are group only. Without groups, you'll never see the end of the main quest line. On the other hand, WOW has PVP and raids. FFXIV 1.0 didn't. It has dungeons and group quests, but not the same style as WOW's raids.

Crafting and gathering are also entirely different in FFXIV 1.0 vs. WOW. The whole process of gathering and crafting require 0 player skills at WOW when you are doing it. While it requires a lot of skills or in-game currencies to collect the right materials or earn the skematics in WOW, It's automated as long as you have the right tools / class / ingredients. It is entirely different from FFXIV, whereby both crafting and gathering require players to do a repetitive mini-game with "some" player skills involved.  Each crafting require players to press at least 10 buttons to get it done as quick as possible, and a lot more if you want to get more EXP out of it. It is somewhat similar to EQ2 in which you have to handle certain situation  with certain ingame skills when you are in the middle of crafting an item, or your crafting will fail. WoW? You put the stuffs in place, hit craft, and you're done! (At least that's how I remember it).

I hope I've said enough to tell you that your conclusion that FFXIV 1.0 and WOW are similar are no where near the truth. Please tell me if you have been playing FFXIV 1.0 and from when to when to arrive at your view point about FFXIV 1.0

I have no idea how FFXIV 2.0 will play like, since I have not been part of the alpha testing that's ongoing. From all the videos that I have seen, it's certainly playing very similar to a modern MMORPG. Yoshida-san quoted WOW as one where they would model FFXIV ARR after, because WOW is seen as the global standard of a modern MMORPG. It means that ARR will have a lot of standard modern MMORPG features such as auction house, in-game mailing, flexible UIs (with no pull down menu-driven commands), which are pretty much in ALL modern MMORPGs, be it LOTRO, TSW, GW2, SWTOR, or EQ2, BUT WERE MISSING IN FFXIV 1.0 and players saw those as must-have features. It doesn't mean that ARR will be a clone in particular to WOW. The character job / class structure (1 toon, all classes / jobs), crafting, gathering, player housing, chocobo raising (i.e., a pet you raise at your house that could join your party as a member, fight with you or just allow you to ride on it, wiith different skill sets - vaguely similar to the new combat mounts at LOTRO but with some differences), hamlet defenses, etc are all very different than WOW or are entirely missing from WOW.

Those features that I have mentioned that are missing from FFXIV 1.0, the shift from repeatable quest leveling to more heavy emphasis on themepark-type quest progression, and the UI are the key things that Yoshida is trying to model after WOW, or any other modern non-sandbox MMORPGs. He is NOT making FFXIV ARR a WOW Clone with FF skin. 

Sorry about the long essay, but I just feel I need to clear up some misunderstandings on FFXIV 1.0 or ARR since it has not been a popular game since launch and many MMORPG gamers have not tried it and wouldn't know HOW it is different than WOW. 

Cheer!

 

I can't read this all and you called FFXIV a sandbox game. I'm getting really tired of pointing things out.  I can't do this anymore.  This thread was not about FFXIV 1.0. I do not care about it. I'm not talking abiut it anymore.

OK not sure what people mean by WoW clone pure copy of wow? 

Ican understand people borrow stuff from eachother in the mmo world but hey so long its working who cares.

But hey wow is still alive and kicking even if its stone age game.

Every mmo has idea from games around. We can take Rift, swtor, even GW2 was blamed for wow clone.. 

Still people enjoy playing it.

People still like old fashion idea but still something new FFXIV was trying to make something more unique but 1.0 dident work. 

Now 2.0 under Yoshi P i believe this game gona be a hit.. Even if its gona be similar Wow but with 100 times better graphic and gameplay.

Atlest i will playing this even if its wow clone who cares about wow haters noone does...

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by henryk

Originally posted by Magiknight

Originally posted by Aviggin

With the original FFXIV, they tried to change everything they could from the current themepark model, and they failed miserably. When the new game director stepped in and did a lot of surveys about what people wanted in the game, it turned out that the majority of people who took the surveys WANTED more WoW-like features to be added, or to replace the current systems in place.

FFXIV ARR is going to be the sum of those surveys and player feedback with some much improved graphics, animations, combat, and, hopefully, story, as well.

It's what the players wanted, and it's what the players are getting.

Are you serious? The person who directed FFXIV 1.0 said he was using WoW as his model os success.  I have mentioned, like 5 other times, how similar FFXIV 1.0 is to WoW.  Can you name some differences?  Expain yourself a little?

Where does it say that FFXIV was trying to be entirely original? Not a single person complained about FFXIV 1.0 graphics or animations. Guess what the current director is always talking about concerning ARR?  Graphics and animations.........

I read stuff like this, and I want to crawl in a hole and die. Aviggin, just because a game fails does not mean that it was trying to be original.....

 

Here's what you say about the similarities between FFXVI 1.0 and WoW. 

FFXIV might be a commercial success...................but what else would you call it a success in?  How many other games are commercial successes with absolutely nothing else to mention about them?

FFXIV took numerous concepts from WoW.  The heart of FFXIV is a shadow of WoW.  To be specific, every class in FFXIV is a hybrid, similar to WoW.  A conjurer can heal and do damage.  A paladin can take hits and deal damage.  Everything is pretty much given to you in both games.  Traveling, experiences points, armor, skills, are all handed out.  There is no real in-game danger in either game.  When you die your armor is damaged and you have to spend a negligable amount of money fixing it.  Both games are extremely solo friendly.  Both have short ladders to the top and make the journey to the top trivial.  I could go on and on...........  I try and come up with differences and I can only come up with names.  Chocobo vs. horse, white mage vs priest, name of such and such monster with such and such monster............

As someone who's been playing FFXIV 1.0 from beginning to end, and also played WOW up until WotLK, I believe they are quite different. I have also played EQ2 for over a year, LOTRO since launch, SWG since launch till NGE, TSW since launch, GW2 since launch. SWTOR for 6 months, for your info.

Not every class of FFXIV is a hybrid. While it is true that before the job system came about, the distinction between the melee classes weren't big in terms of individual skills, they are very different in how a player can build their character because each of the 7 classes (melee & magic) can equip up to a certain number of skills from other classes provided that 1) the same character already learned those skills as another class; 2) those skills are one of a subset of each class' available skills that could be learned by another class. That's right! FFXIV 1.0 (and 2.0) characters can level each and every single class individually. You could  decide to have no level as a gladiator, but play to lvl 20 in conjurer, lvl 30 in lancer, lvl 50 as a marauder. The same goes for Disciplines of Land (3 classes of material gatherers) and Disciplines of Craft (8 classes in total). Some people have hit lvl 50 in all 18 classes in ONE SINGLE TOON. Please tell me how is it similar to WOW, in which each toon can only be one combat-oriented class as the main class and a few crafting / gathering classes?? 

Conjurer (as a class) and Paladin (as a job -- it wasnt even in FFXIV until the last year or so) are professions that existed since single player FF games are around over a decade ago. Tell me, how are they a copy of WOW's ideas? EQ2 also have similar classes with different names. EQ2 came out literally at the same time as WOW. I don't think they copy it off of each other in their class design. Rather, all these fantasy-genre games are always getting the staple professions from traditional fantasy settings, and in terms of computer games, among the first to put in these classes would be games like Wizardy, Bard's Tale, and Ultima (not even online yet!). So, just having a paladin that heals and can fight is by no mean saying that FFXIV got the idea from WoW. Dungeons and Dragons had paladins that can fight and heal since the 1980's!!

Travelling is very different. In WOW your toon literally ride on pets or autorouted vehicles / monsters. There's only 1 "return home" point where you use your item to return to a certain location defined by the player. FFXIV also allow players to teleport to one location (later 2, with one being a city and one being a camp) with 'Return", but it also allows player to teleport to any camp they have discovered provided that something called anima is available. Riding pet (of which there are only two) did not come up until way after launch. So, most people travel to all kinds of locations using anima. That's not the same as WoW, in which the players really enjoy the physical "rides" on flying mounts or boats etc at the earlier period of the game.

Earning EXP is also very different. WOW in essence is a themepark game. FFXIV is mostly a sandbox game in terms of earning EXP. They have < 200 uniquie quests and most of the EXP are earned via levequests, which are repeatable quests from the few NPCs in town. Story based quests are available based on class levels (for class quests), highest class level ( for main story line quests), and later on from specific NPCs, job levels, and Grand Companies ranks. The story-based quests are very cohesive and many of them are tied to the big storyline. However, it is impossible to level your PC from level 1 to max (lvl 50) just doing storyline quests. Also, vast majority of players play multiple classes. In order to do so, they have to do repeatable quests. WOW? While they have repeatable quests, for those that are not at max level or earning reputations, they are not required to level. Rather players are moving from regions to higher level regions to pick up quests from quest hub NPCs. The one game which I found to be very similar to FFXIV in terms of earning EXPs was actually SWG. SWG players also get repeatable quests from mission terminals based on level range, and grind them day after day to gain EXP, as the themepart / quest hubs there were quite limited before NGE. Another similarity between SWG and FFXIV is that both allow player to progress in multiple class in one toon, wiith your toon using skills from multi-class in a specific "build".. The differences are that the "builds" from SWG are quite fixed (ie. you switch skills with penalty, meaning you basically forfeit the EXP earned to gain a skill if you want to switch out a skill). On the other hand, in FFXIV you can switch skills on the fly (when not in combat) as long as you switch your main weapon. In that sense, TSW's character progression is also similar. TSW is a themepark game but its character progression / skils wheels share some similarities between SWG and FFXIV, with some of their own twists. Anyway, the point is, WOW is very different from SWG or FFXIV in terms of character progression and EXP earning

Armor - while the function of armors ingame is similar between the two, so are the armor systems in most other fantasy genre MMORPG. While the individual parameters may be different, the idea's not that different from the AC-based systems fromm D&D which started ages ago. Even critical hit, etc came from D&D. The only one game I could think of that break the mode, at least aesthetically, is TSW. Toons there don't actually wear armors. They wear whatevery clothings they can buy (in game or with real money) / earn (from quests or achievements) with no stats.The stats are only in their assessories and weapons. In other words, assessories in TSW = armors in other games. Another game that gives players more freedom on how they look would be LOTRO (appearance can be separate from armors if players want to). To particular call out FFXIV's armor system as similar to WOW is similar to calling out humans and monkeys as similar because they are both primates. Are there similaries? There are! Are they identical? No way! Most current MMORPGs require minimal costs in fixing armors when damaged. Try to name a few game which cost you a fortune to fix damaged armors or are non-repairable when damaged and players have to buy a new set! Such a game may exist, but I bet that'd be a minority out there. (Vanguard or EQ1 maybe?? I am just guessing here as I haven't played both)

Extremely solo friendly?? I wouldn't call it a similarity. First of all, solo cannot get you even your job quests or Grand Company quests done in FFXIV! To get to even the "standard" in job armor or to be at the highest Grand Company ranking, you HAVE to do several quests in a group in dungeons / instances. How is that solo friendly? You could level all 7 combat classes in FFXIV to level 50 solo, but you won't be considered at the minimal efficiency of your jobs if you don't at least complete your job quests (which not only give you pieces of your job armors, but also some job skills. No quest completion which requires a group, no job skills. Also, that's a series of 4-5 prolonged quests for each job, not just one single quest). Same goes for main story line that led to the end of 1.0. Several of the quests are group only. Without groups, you'll never see the end of the main quest line. On the other hand, WOW has PVP and raids. FFXIV 1.0 didn't. It has dungeons and group quests, but not the same style as WOW's raids.

Crafting and gathering are also entirely different in FFXIV 1.0 vs. WOW. The whole process of gathering and crafting require 0 player skills at WOW when you are doing it. While it requires a lot of skills or in-game currencies to collect the right materials or earn the skematics in WOW, It's automated as long as you have the right tools / class / ingredients. It is entirely different from FFXIV, whereby both crafting and gathering require players to do a repetitive mini-game with "some" player skills involved.  Each crafting require players to press at least 10 buttons to get it done as quick as possible, and a lot more if you want to get more EXP out of it. It is somewhat similar to EQ2 in which you have to handle certain situation  with certain ingame skills when you are in the middle of crafting an item, or your crafting will fail. WoW? You put the stuffs in place, hit craft, and you're done! (At least that's how I remember it).

I hope I've said enough to tell you that your conclusion that FFXIV 1.0 and WOW are similar are no where near the truth. Please tell me if you have been playing FFXIV 1.0 and from when to when to arrive at your view point about FFXIV 1.0

I have no idea how FFXIV 2.0 will play like, since I have not been part of the alpha testing that's ongoing. From all the videos that I have seen, it's certainly playing very similar to a modern MMORPG. Yoshida-san quoted WOW as one where they would model FFXIV ARR after, because WOW is seen as the global standard of a modern MMORPG. It means that ARR will have a lot of standard modern MMORPG features such as auction house, in-game mailing, flexible UIs (with no pull down menu-driven commands), which are pretty much in ALL modern MMORPGs, be it LOTRO, TSW, GW2, SWTOR, or EQ2, BUT WERE MISSING IN FFXIV 1.0 and players saw those as must-have features. It doesn't mean that ARR will be a clone in particular to WOW. The character job / class structure (1 toon, all classes / jobs), crafting, gathering, player housing, chocobo raising (i.e., a pet you raise at your house that could join your party as a member, fight with you or just allow you to ride on it, wiith different skill sets - vaguely similar to the new combat mounts at LOTRO but with some differences), hamlet defenses, etc are all very different than WOW or are entirely missing from WOW.

Those features that I have mentioned that are missing from FFXIV 1.0, the shift from repeatable quest leveling to more heavy emphasis on themepark-type quest progression, and the UI are the key things that Yoshida is trying to model after WOW, or any other modern non-sandbox MMORPGs. He is NOT making FFXIV ARR a WOW Clone with FF skin. 

Sorry about the long essay, but I just feel I need to clear up some misunderstandings on FFXIV 1.0 or ARR since it has not been a popular game since launch and many MMORPG gamers have not tried it and wouldn't know HOW it is different than WOW. 

Cheer!

 

I can't read this all and you called FFXIV a sandbox game. I'm getting really tired of pointing things out.  I can't do this anymore.  This thread was not about FFXIV 1.0. I do not care about it. I'm not talking abiut it anymore.

Haha... you just aren't talking about it anymore becuase you were proven wrong and have nothing to say.  Fine, moving on. 

Yes, I believe they're heading more in the direction of WoW for FFXIV ARR. Doesn't mean it's going to be an exact clone, but they're definitely going to have the features in place that many people were upset about not being in the original. However, it doesn't really matter to me, as long as the content and atmosphere of the game is awesome. I still play WoW, so I have no issues with it, anyway.

Ultimately, similar features don't make games clones. But if you're ignorant enough, every game is a clone of another. MagiKnight as proof of this.

Originally posted by Magiknight

According to an interview with Naoki Yoshida, the director and producer of FFXIV ARR, the new game will be a WoW clone.  When the original FFXIV was being released a couple years ago the director of that game said that they were using WoW as their model of success.  This is amazing.

 

BM: Final Fantasy XI just had its ten year anniversary and it got a new expansion coming up. You talked about educating the development team at what the standard is at a west MMOs, so with an eye of Final Fantasy XI that is hugely successful, what did they get right what Final Fantasy XIV wasn’t doing?

Yoshida: One of the reasons why Final Fantasy XI was so successful was that the whole development team went and played Everquest and they thought “Okay, we want to do exactly what they did with Final Fantasy XI!” You know there were times where you couldn’t contact any of them because of how much they played *laughs*, but because they did that they had a direction. One of the problems with Final Fantasy XIV was that there wasn’t that direction, they didn’t know what the standard was and they never played World of Warcraft, they didn’t know enough and because they didn’t know enough they couldn’t build something up to the standards of current MMOs. Plus when they started creating Final Fantasy XI there was Final Fantasy X that strongly influenced them.

With Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn we don’t want to create many new things, we first want to start of getting this global standard and then adding that Final Fantasy feel. We want to get the crystal tower in and the gold soucer to get that epic Final Fantasy feeling.

http://jpgames.de/2012/08/gamescom-2012-our-interview-with-naoki-yoshida/

 

Fuck this.....

 

Okay Bye.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

and SWG?

They lasted around 7 years each...

Being braindead and comatose till it died isn't really 'alive&kicking'.

Clearly it's a WoW clone.  Isn't that why we are all playing it? 

The crafting system is EXACTLY like WoW.

The Mount Armor is EXACTLY like WoW.

The Classes gaining advanced class skills (ie gladiators becoming pallies, conjurers becoming whitemages, etc.) just like WoW

Leveling all the classes on one character just like WoW!

The gatherers and crafters are their own class EXACTLY like WoW

Teleporting to anywhere, to camps, to cities, JUST LIKE WOW.

The clunky UI of 1.0 and the streamlined UI of 2.0 are both just like WoW at the same time!

Gaining TP during combat to unleash my skills, just like WoW!

The Summoner is a warlock right?

The Paladin can be a main healer right?

The Blackmage only uses fire or ice or arcane spells right?

The White Mage has an evil shadow side right?

The quests lead me by the nose right?

The crafting becomes irrelevant and its just heroic/raid/daily grind at endgame right?

PVP just like WoW... even battlegrounds!

Speaking of PVP, everything is balanced right just like WoW!

Crafters repairing roofs and damage during PVP is just like WoW!

EDIT: Don't forget that copy and pasted Dungeon Finder in FFXIV, it wreaks of WoW...

Originally posted by DarknessReign
EQ came out in 1999. Final Fantasy XI came out in 2002 , World of warcraft came out in 2004. The thing is compaired to WoW what is the same? I mean the very first FF came out in 1987. The lore is 100% FF. It's like I said before just because the game will have a revamped UI its not WoWs UI. Because the menu us revamped doesn't mean its the same as WoWs. I think most of you misunderstand what a clone is. A clone is a exact replica of something else. FFXIV and AAR look nothing like WoW , WoW looks like some crappy Saturday morning cartoon. FF looks more realistic visually. And I'm sorry but 25 years worth of lore trumps 8 years . Only a WoW fanboy thinks everything is WoW. Because its all they know. And there to damn lazy to take the time and see other games for what they are other then WoW. WoW has a dragon darkwig so FF had to have one. No FANBOY FF had a dragon long before most of you were conceived. WoW like FFXI got there influences from EQ. FFXIV:AAR looked into all the mmos out now. In the letters from the producer all 4 of them YoshiP talks about how he made the dev. team play Star Wars , GW2 , TERA to get an idea of how to combine the best of all things into one solid mmo with the legacy of Final Fantasy its lore within its world. That is the truth and amen to them. SE is doing more then ANY game company ever would. They made a mistake and promised a better game. When they could have done like everyone else charged for crap knowing its crap and not fixing the crap. That's my peace with this topic. Take it as it is. And maybe open your minds to something greater then WoW and thinking everything is WoW.

Actually the Warcraft franchise has been around for more than 8 years, which the mmo is based off of many years of games, tabletop games, and books. But i agree that as for mmo they did borrow many ideas from it predessors (eq etc...)  which can be found in many mmo's today.

Originally posted by Edeus

Clearly it's a WoW clone.  Isn't that why we are all playing it? 

The crafting system is EXACTLY like WoW.

The Mount Armor is EXACTLY like WoW.

The Classes gaining advanced class skills (ie gladiators becoming pallies, conjurers becoming whitemages, etc.) just like WoW

Leveling all the classes on one character just like WoW!

The gatherers and crafters are their own class EXACTLY like WoW

Teleporting to anywhere, to camps, to cities, JUST LIKE WOW.

The clunky UI of 1.0 and the streamlined UI of 2.0 are both just like WoW at the same time!

Gaining TP during combat to unleash my skills, just like WoW!

 

The Summoner is a warlock right?

The Paladin can be a main healer right?

The Blackmage only uses fire or ice or arcane spells right?

The White Mage has an evil shadow side right?

The quests lead me by the nose right?

 

The crafting becomes irrelevant and its just heroic/raid/daily grind at endgame right?

PVP just like WoW... even battlegrounds!

Speaking of PVP, everything is balanced right just like WoW!

Crafters repairing roofs and damage during PVP is just like WoW!

 

EDIT: Don't forget that copy and pasted Dungeon Finder in FFXIV, it wreaks of WoW...

 

let see..

-. Gathering + crafting not exackly as wow since in FFXIV you controll ur crafting by ur self to either fail suceed or do high quality.

-. Mount yes but no flying mounts armor idon't know its in every mmo

- Class is different wow u choise paladin done. FFXIV you level up 2 different starter class to a point then you got paladin class avaible to unlock. No Talents points like in wow. 1.0 you did level class and character level witch was removed once job class was added 1.2.

- Well in wow you had to creat new character everytime uwanted to play new class but in FFXI and FFXIV you had 1 character. Usely ido would be pain start over with new character.

- teleport yes

- TP mana yes this is older then wow.

- Smn = warlock i played warlock and pet wasent so good for my taste basic had ur own powerful spells. But SMN is basic a elemental Beastmaster pet do the work while smn support by a heal or something like back in FFXI not sure if gona be same in FFXIV

- Paladin healer NO pure Tank in FFXIV

- BLM use Ice fire thunder sleep sort burst freeze and Flare powerful spells aracanic spells will be on another class a mage tank spells.

- WHM evil side no its pure main healer in game way totally different from many other games.

- Questing mission lores is old story this cant be avoided every game has it.

- Crafting is actully really important role in end/game to 1.2 and im sure 2.0 there is heroic instance there crafter is needed for this part its calling Hamlets there npc doing the fighting while you protect them as crafter you make debuff on enemies buff npc and 2.0 its gona be more challange of this encounter. Also very unique to sure.

Pvp there is not anything yet but im sure there will be battleground.

But still icant find FFXIV a copy of Wow but it does have borrwoing stuff why not? beacuse this always been an mmo Icon.

Even todays FPS games so fast they got exp or stuff they would call it mmo.

Originally posted by Raveice

Originally posted by Edeus

Clearly it's a WoW clone.  Isn't that why we are all playing it? 

The crafting system is EXACTLY like WoW.

The Mount Armor is EXACTLY like WoW.

The Classes gaining advanced class skills (ie gladiators becoming pallies, conjurers becoming whitemages, etc.) just like WoW

Leveling all the classes on one character just like WoW!

The gatherers and crafters are their own class EXACTLY like WoW

Teleporting to anywhere, to camps, to cities, JUST LIKE WOW.

The clunky UI of 1.0 and the streamlined UI of 2.0 are both just like WoW at the same time!

Gaining TP during combat to unleash my skills, just like WoW!

 

The Summoner is a warlock right?

The Paladin can be a main healer right?

The Blackmage only uses fire or ice or arcane spells right?

The White Mage has an evil shadow side right?

The quests lead me by the nose right?

 

The crafting becomes irrelevant and its just heroic/raid/daily grind at endgame right?

PVP just like WoW... even battlegrounds!

Speaking of PVP, everything is balanced right just like WoW!

Crafters repairing roofs and damage during PVP is just like WoW!

 

EDIT: Don't forget that copy and pasted Dungeon Finder in FFXIV, it wreaks of WoW...

 

let see..

-. Gathering + crafting not exackly as wow since in FFXIV you controll ur crafting by ur self to either fail suceed or do high quality.

-. Mount yes but no flying mounts armor idon't know its in every mmo

- Class is different wow u choise paladin done. FFXIV you level up 2 different starter class to a point then you got paladin class avaible to unlock. No Talents points like in wow. 1.0 you did level class and character level witch was removed once job class was added 1.2.

- Well in wow you had to creat new character everytime uwanted to play new class but in FFXI and FFXIV you had 1 character. Usely ido would be pain start over with new character.

- teleport yes

- TP mana yes this is older then wow.

- Smn = warlock i played warlock and pet wasent so good for my taste basic had ur own powerful spells. But SMN is basic a elemental Beastmaster pet do the work while smn support by a heal or something like back in FFXI not sure if gona be same in FFXIV

- Paladin healer NO pure Tank in FFXIV

- BLM use Ice fire thunder sleep sort burst freeze and Flare powerful spells aracanic spells will be on another class a mage tank spells.

- WHM evil side no its pure main healer in game way totally different from many other games.

- Questing mission lores is old story this cant be avoided every game has it.

- Crafting is actully really important role in end/game to 1.2 and im sure 2.0 there is heroic instance there crafter is needed for this part its calling Hamlets there npc doing the fighting while you protect them as crafter you make debuff on enemies buff npc and 2.0 its gona be more challange of this encounter. Also very unique to sure.

Pvp there is not anything yet but im sure there will be battleground.

But still icant find FFXIV a copy of Wow but it does have borrwoing stuff why not? beacuse this always been an mmo Icon.

Even todays FPS games so fast they got exp or stuff they would call it mmo.

You can rule out sarcasm as something you can understand on the internet.

 

let see..

-. Gathering + crafting not exackly as wow since in FFXIV you controll ur crafting by ur self to either fail suceed or do high quality.

-. Mount yes but no flying mounts armor idon't know its in every mmo

- Class is different wow u choise paladin done. FFXIV you level up 2 different starter class to a point then you got paladin class avaible to unlock. No Talents points like in wow. 1.0 you did level class and character level witch was removed once job class was added 1.2.

- Well in wow you had to creat new character everytime uwanted to play new class but in FFXI and FFXIV you had 1 character. Usely ido would be pain start over with new character.

- teleport yes

- TP mana yes this is older then wow.

- Smn = warlock i played warlock and pet wasent so good for my taste basic had ur own powerful spells. But SMN is basic a elemental Beastmaster pet do the work while smn support by a heal or something like back in FFXI not sure if gona be same in FFXIV

- Paladin healer NO pure Tank in FFXIV

- BLM use Ice fire thunder sleep sort burst freeze and Flare powerful spells aracanic spells will be on another class a mage tank spells.

- WHM evil side no its pure main healer in game way totally different from many other games.

- Questing mission lores is old story this cant be avoided every game has it.

- Crafting is actully really important role in end/game to 1.2 and im sure 2.0 there is heroic instance there crafter is needed for this part its calling Hamlets there npc doing the fighting while you protect them as crafter you make debuff on enemies buff npc and 2.0 its gona be more challange of this encounter. Also very unique to sure.

Pvp there is not anything yet but im sure there will be battleground.

But still icant find FFXIV a copy of Wow but it does have borrwoing stuff why not? beacuse this always been an mmo Icon.

Even todays FPS games so fast they got exp or stuff they would call it mmo.

You can rule out sarcasm as something you can understand on the internet.

/facepalm.

I thought I was being too outrageous for someone to take me seriously. 

But from his use of English, I can still hope he isn't a native speaker of English.  And I have heard sarcasm is not an easy thing to grasp when learning English. 

Originally posted by Edeus

 

let see..

-. Gathering + crafting not exackly as wow since in FFXIV you controll ur crafting by ur self to either fail suceed or do high quality.

-. Mount yes but no flying mounts armor idon't know its in every mmo

- Class is different wow u choise paladin done. FFXIV you level up 2 different starter class to a point then you got paladin class avaible to unlock. No Talents points like in wow. 1.0 you did level class and character level witch was removed once job class was added 1.2.

- Well in wow you had to creat new character everytime uwanted to play new class but in FFXI and FFXIV you had 1 character. Usely ido would be pain start over with new character.

- teleport yes

- TP mana yes this is older then wow.

- Smn = warlock i played warlock and pet wasent so good for my taste basic had ur own powerful spells. But SMN is basic a elemental Beastmaster pet do the work while smn support by a heal or something like back in FFXI not sure if gona be same in FFXIV

- Paladin healer NO pure Tank in FFXIV

- BLM use Ice fire thunder sleep sort burst freeze and Flare powerful spells aracanic spells will be on another class a mage tank spells.

- WHM evil side no its pure main healer in game way totally different from many other games.

- Questing mission lores is old story this cant be avoided every game has it.

- Crafting is actully really important role in end/game to 1.2 and im sure 2.0 there is heroic instance there crafter is needed for this part its calling Hamlets there npc doing the fighting while you protect them as crafter you make debuff on enemies buff npc and 2.0 its gona be more challange of this encounter. Also very unique to sure.

Pvp there is not anything yet but im sure there will be battleground.

But still icant find FFXIV a copy of Wow but it does have borrwoing stuff why not? beacuse this always been an mmo Icon.

Even todays FPS games so fast they got exp or stuff they would call it mmo.

You can rule out sarcasm as something you can understand on the internet.

/facepalm.

I thought I was being too outrageous for someone to take me seriously. 

But from his use of English, I can still hope he isn't a native speaker of English.  And I have heard sarcasm is not an easy thing to grasp when learning English. 

Even if I can't get people off of 1.0 (Edeus) in a thread with a topic about ARR at least it is funny.

Fine I will bite. Let the 1.0 discussion continue. Henryk said that,

"Not every class of FFXIV is a hybrid. While it is true that before the job system came about, the distinction between the melee classes weren't big in terms of individual skills, they are very different in how a player can build their character because each of the 7 classes (melee & magic) can equip up to a certain number of skills from other classes provided that 1) the same character already learned those skills as another class; 2) those skills are one of a subset of each class' available skills that could be learned by another class. That's right! FFXIV 1.0 (and 2.0) characters can level each and every single class individually. You could  decide to have no level as a gladiator, but play to lvl 20 in conjurer, lvl 30 in lancer, lvl 50 as a marauder. The same goes for Disciplines of Land (3 classes of material gatherers) and Disciplines of Craft (8 classes in total). Some people have hit lvl 50 in all 18 classes in ONE SINGLE TOON. Please tell me how is it similar to WOW, in which each toon can only be one combat-oriented class as the main class and a few crafting / gathering classes??"

I really have trouble responding to this..... It is WoW in so many ways. First, you are correct when you say that you can take skills from different classes for your one character. So people combine skills from conjurer and gladiator and what do you have? A hybrid. Most classes in WoW are hybrids. You are arguing that allowing a player to choose which hybrid he is is the opposite of a hybrid. This is not true. Second, allowing a player to have multiple classes with one character doesn't necessarily mean anything. Having multiple characters, each with one class, only allows for people to change the appearance of their character. If a player only has one character with multiple classes then he is just looking at the same charcter all the time. It's possible that the only change is a visual change.

I can respond to all of your other comments but I really really do not want to.

I'm a fan of each player having only one character, but not for this reason. Having only one charcter provides more stability, which is needed for communities. I'm a fan of how this was done in 1.0. But this thread is not about 1.0........ It's about how the director of ARR likes WoW.

Originally posted by DarknessReign
people who never spent more the 4 months playing FFXIV version 1.0 should not be taken seriously when talking about FF and WoW being the same. The above statement shows ignorance . The director has a name its Yoshi . He had the development team play ALL MMOS not just WoW I know to the typical WoW troll there is nothing other then WoW even if it came out before WoW it ripped off WoW somehow ? It's something totally new , well WoW has that..... Ok again the story of AAR is nothing like WoWs. The art work is Nothing like WoWs. The CGI is nothing like WoWs. menus , UI similar but all MMOs menus and UIs are. Just like 90% of all First Person Shooters all play the same ( control wise ) The point I'm making is this WoW is WoW 8 years in video games and MMO market it is its own . FF 25 years in video games 10 in MMOs ( 12 if you add v1.0 ) and it is its own. This "clone" debate is just silly. It's the type of thing that a WoW fan makes ( like a CoD fan ) to try to get a rise out of the faithful of Final Fantasy or whatever mmo . It is there excuse to justify that there game is better will always be better even when it totally sucks and was so 5 years ago. The WoW community is a great example of a entitled one. It's all about look at me look at me you suck . I want this , I want that , I got this where's yours ? you suck . That can stay in WoW ill keep my eccentric , aristocratic at times community at leat its not obnoxious . Thank god its P2P so most of the WoW tards can stay there .

No one ever said anything about the artwork, CGI, or UI. I think the artwork, CGI, and graphics are different in every MMO.  I'm not a WoW fan either. What make you think that I am a WoW fan?

Originally posted by Magiknight

Fine I will bite. Let the 1.0 discussion continue. Henryk said that,

"Not every class of FFXIV is a hybrid. While it is true that before the job system came about, the distinction between the melee classes weren't big in terms of individual skills, they are very different in how a player can build their character because each of the 7 classes (melee & magic) can equip up to a certain number of skills from other classes provided that 1) the same character already learned those skills as another class; 2) those skills are one of a subset of each class' available skills that could be learned by another class. That's right! FFXIV 1.0 (and 2.0) characters can level each and every single class individually. You could  decide to have no level as a gladiator, but play to lvl 20 in conjurer, lvl 30 in lancer, lvl 50 as a marauder. The same goes for Disciplines of Land (3 classes of material gatherers) and Disciplines of Craft (8 classes in total). Some people have hit lvl 50 in all 18 classes in ONE SINGLE TOON. Please tell me how is it similar to WOW, in which each toon can only be one combat-oriented class as the main class and a few crafting / gathering classes??"

 

I really have trouble responding to this..... It is WoW in so many ways. First, you are correct when you say that you can take skills from different classes for your one character. So people combine skills from conjurer and gladiator and what do you have? A hybrid. Most classes in WoW are hybrids. You are arguing that allowing a player to choose which hybrid he is is the opposite of a hybrid. This is not true. Second, allowing a player to have multiple classes with one character doesn't necessarily mean anything. Having multiple characters, each with one class, only allows for people to change the appearance of their character. If a player only has one character with multiple classes then he is just looking at the same charcter all the time. It's possible that the only change is a visual change.

I can respond to all of your other comments but I really really do not want to.

I'm a fan of each player having only one character, but not for this reason. Having only one charcter provides more stability, which is needed for communities. I'm a fan of how this was done in 1.0. But this thread is not about 1.0........ It's about how the director of ARR likes WoW.

Your original arguement is about why you believe FFXIV ARR will be a "CLONE" of WOW, because in your opinion (you said you had stated more than 5 times), even in FFXIV 1.0, the game is already very similar to WOW. It doesn't matter if the end product made you "feel" that they are similar. The fact that FFXIV 1.0's class system is constructed entirely different than that of WOW's is already proof that they are not even close. I hope you know the definition of CLONE, as stated by some others in the thread. Both games' classes are hybrid so they are similar?? I dare you go to WOW's official forum and argue with the WOW players that most WOW classes are hybrid! You say a Warrior can be both a tank and a DPS in WOW? Yeah, but not without respec and changing your gear entirely, if you want to be effective about it.  Can a warrior switch between a DPS and a tank frequently? Sure if you spend enough to respec all the time, but that's not what WOW players do. If they want a DPS, some of them will just roll a rogue. That's way more efficient than trying to be a DPS and tank warrior at the same time. If that's why you call MOST WOW classes as hybrid, that's your OWN OPINION, and there will be thousands if not hundred of thousands of current and previous WOW players (myself included) that will argue with you about the inefficiency of doing that (i.e, switching roles on the same toon frequently). You could probably say the Druid or the Death Knight is a hybrid, as each could be a tank, a healer or a DPS. But that's about it! (I haven't played monk, so I don't know about it).

It also shows your ignorance of the FFXIV 1.0 game system. If you are a archer in the game, even though you can get a heal skill (and only the lowest tier one) from your conjurer class, there is absolutely no way you can be a healer in a group by equiping just the one and only one healing spell allowable by the game from conjurer and call yourself the healer of the group. Your party will be slaughtered. (In fact, other players will just laugh at your face and tell you to move along). Even if you can equip SOME VERY LIMITED skills of other classes, you are by NO mean effective and efficient enough to change your role. All classes basically stick to their own role. You can heal as a marauder by equiping 1 heal spell from conjurer and 1 self-heal skill from pugilist? Great! You may be able to lessen the burden of your Conjurer / White Mage by self healing a very small amount here or there. That's it. You will NEVER be a healer, as implied by your view of them being a HYBRID. FFXIV classes are even less efficient / effective than WOW classes as hybrids. They simply AREN'T hybrid. Period.

As someone has pointed out later, having one character doing all classes in FFXIV allows most player to stay with only one character (sometimes with shared armor, but never weapons or main skills), and when you change class, it plays entirely differently (If you switch to your white mage class, there's no way you can be a tank or play the job of the black mage. In WOW, to play a different style, you have the freedom to play an entirely different faction (Alliance or Horde), with different gender, different race, with different crafting skills. Especially if you are on a different faction, a big chunk of the quests will be different. You say that's the same as having one toon only playing all classes with the exception of the graphics? That's purely ridiculous.

You apparently have tried to ignore my other counter arguements about why FFXIV 1.0 is NOT a clone of WOW, and just try to stick to one point. How convenient! Yeah,,,that dude just writes too long! I'd rather not read them all! Sure! Tell that to your boss in the real world when you really want to make your point across. Or tell your lawyer that's why you didn't read some fine prints!! See how well it goes!

You also have not identify how long you have been playing FFXIV 1.0 to call yourself a person with good knowledge about the game. Even if you have been a player of FFXIV 1.0 for a while and still believe that FFXIV 1.0 plays like WOW, that's entirely your own personal opinion. You could ask vast majority of players of FFXIV 1.0 players, and (in my opinion) they will tell you that you are wrong.

From your first response to my original message (when you express your surprise that I call FFXIV a sandbox), many people who have played it would know that you don't really know much about FFXIV. WHY?? Themepark games have quest hubs. You play and level in one zone, get better gears, then you move on to the next after whatever quests you want to do are done or you outlevel the zone. That's how WOW plays when you are not at the End Game. 

That's NOT how you play or level your toon in FFXIV. There're rarely quests out in the individual zones for players to get and level with. You just get repeatable quest from the 3 (only 3) main cities, then teleport to the camps where you activate the quests there (which plays like a random encounter with no story attached to them). After you get them done, you go back to cities to get more (of the same type of quests). That's the levequest SYSTEM. The story, job, class, grand company quests etc are all separate and optional, and in order for your toon to be qualified to take on those quests, you have to level the corresponding classes / jobs / grand company ranks accordingly. It's entirely about character's progression, with 0% relevant to any zone itself. Instead of quest hubs, FFXIV 1.0 uses GAME SYSTEMS as contents to help level the PCs - besides levequests, they have hamlet defense, grand company repeatable quessts, dungeons, etc. Further more, while players have the OPTION to customize their character with skills from other classes, they are NOT mandatory. On the other hand, find me a WOW player who wouldn't grab all the skills that belong to the class of his toon! The skill trees only give toons speciality within a class, but never across classes.

So, even though FFXIV is not 100% reliant on game systems for players to level, it does so way more than most other MMORPGs out there. (The only one I've played that are similar would be SWG before NGE, as stated in my first message.) You can do 0% of the story, class, job quests etc and have your toon at max levels in all classes because the levequest SYSTEM allows player to do so, and it does not have quest hubs. That's why it is primarily a sandbox game. 

You try ask someone to level their toons in WOW without doing any quest from all the quest hubs in each zone?? Sure you could just go out there to kill random mobs to level, but it will take you ages and honestly, do you believe anyone would do that, leveling purely from killing non-quest mobs??

Since you don't even understand this fundamental difference between WOW and FFXIV, I find it pointless to debate this topic further with you, who seems to argue your point just for arguement's sake. I may not change how you view these two games, as you certainly are entitled to your own opinions, but I don't care. Nor do I need to argue with you about how ARR would or would not be a clone of WOW. When the game comes out, let all the players be the judges. Unlike someone who claims to know so much about FFXIV ARR wtihout stating any concrete info about the game other than a general comment from the game developer and maybe watching a video or two of ALPHA game play, I preserve my judgement on ARR until it comes out. I stated my view about Yoshida-san's commentary on ARR and WOW in my last message, but apparently you haven't read it.

This will be my last response. My goal is to tell other fellow MMORPG gamers who have not tried FFXIV 1.0 or know enough about ARR why FFXIV 1.0 has nothing similar to WOW in terms of gameplay, the whole leveling experience, character progression and game structure. I believe ONLY genuine players who have been playing both games for months and years are qualified to make such a comparison. And I prove how different they are with facts from actually playing the games, not how I "feel" the games are similar with empty, qualitative sentences. You can still believe that FFXIV 1.0 are very very similar to WOW, but don't call it out as if those are facts.