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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Agony - the thing I am more worried about than Ascended gear

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33 posts found
  Ecoces

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 795

 
OP  11/13/12 3:26:19 AM#1

a new Condition is being brought into the game called "agony" where you will have to focus on a specific "resistance stat" in order to beat tougher content because of Agony.

 

this scares the hell out of me, i have seen a few games try to add a specific "defensive stat" to PVE encounters. this is usually done as a gate mechanic and usually seperates communities between those that have it and those that don't. you think you will see "group looking for 2 more with Ascended gear"? no what you will see is "group looking for 2 more must have 300+ "agony prevention stat""

 

i have seen this type of defensive stat added to one of my favorite MMOs ... EQ2. It was called Crit Mitigation and if you did not have enough you would get one shotted by raid mobs, and no amount of skill would stop that from happening. Eventually you needed X amount of Crit Mit in order to even join PVE groups especially raid group.

 

EQ2 finally removed this stat from the game EVERYONE was happy, from the casual game to the Hardcore Raider.

 

i think Agony is a terrible mechanic, thats going to split the PVE elitist from the rest even further. this is in my opinion worse than ascended gear.

  Caliburn101

Novice Member

Joined: 3/30/11
Posts: 647

"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

11/13/12 3:39:35 AM#2

Agreed - this kind of 'soft-gating' always polarises players and in this one case goes directly against the ethos of the game - that skill is more important than gear.

If I cannot do the higher challenges of the Fractal Dungeon without LOTs of agony resistance then it is an issue.

If agony gear is not difficult to get however, AND they introduce upgrade components for ALL gear with agony resistance on it - I am not so concerned.

  1vald2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/20/12
Posts: 75

11/13/12 3:45:06 AM#3

You got something wrong here. There is no "elitist" in this game. EVERYBODY is the same, for those that want a challenge, they need to get the agony stats. Otherwise, for the casual gamer there is no benefit whatsoever from getting loot from that new dungeon since this is not tier 1.5 or something. The stats on this "ascended armor" are a VERY small improvement to the exotic lvl 80 armors. Exactly like exotic -> legendary stats. Actually it's even a smaller improvement than exotic -> legendary since they mentioned ascended armor to be in between those 2. 

My guess is that ascended armor will not be as hard to obtain as legendary armor, so in a way they are catering to the casual crowd.

Thought people finally realised this isn't WoW 2.0, where the game is also called grind for top tier.

  Laromuss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/13/12
Posts: 328

11/13/12 3:45:38 AM#4
Sure sounds a lot like Rifts Raiding system for public rifts.  Mages needed Focus of 200 - 300 to be able to do damage and Melee needed Hit and this also applied to elite dungeons too I believe which was a major gating mechanic and turned into a major gear grind.
  romanator0

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 2425

11/13/12 3:48:49 AM#5
Agony is mitigated by infusions. Infusions can only be put into slots that only appear on Ascended gear. At the end of the day Ascended gear is still the main problem.

  QSatu

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/14/06
Posts: 1765

11/13/12 3:57:26 AM#6
We will have a problem if they add Agony to all future dungeons etc. As lomng as it will stay exclusive to this new dungeon only (even iif they expand it in the future) it should be fine. But I will be highly annoyed if I will have to grind this dungeon just to complete future high lvl areas and dungeons.
  dancingstar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/19/11
Posts: 277

11/13/12 4:13:01 AM#7

I never played EQ but LOTRO had a mechanic called Radiance which was used to gate some of the raid content in Moria & proved so wildly unpopular that it was removed.

This though sounds more like a mechanic from the original Guild Wars.  One specific class of enemies which appears towards the end of the Prophecies campaign (also in the later War in Kryta quests) has a special attack called Spectral Agony which reduces the target's move speed, attack speed and skill activation speed as well as causing massive damage over time.  This effect can be mitigated by getting one's armour "infused" which can be done in a number of the later main plot missions.

Above was pointed out repeatedly in the earlier threads discussing the new armour type, by the way.

  User Deleted
11/13/12 4:16:57 AM#8

If Agony isn't effective enough it's a wasted effort in time and ressources.
If it does, it goes against everything they preached.


They better kill this now it can only get's worse. It's a completly lose / lose situation for everyone.


But i doubt the "genious" who is responsebile at Anet for this, is any different than all the "genious" people who came up with that in WoW, Lotro, EQ2...before them.

  Scalpless

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/22/07
Posts: 1287

11/13/12 4:19:13 AM#9

It really depends on how they handle this. If Infusions are easy enough to obtain and offer different ways to counter Agony, essentially giving you more build options, it's fine. However, if they're hard to obtain and gate you from content, it's very very not fine.

IMO they should've just made Infusions an additional upgrade slot and added it to all Rare+ gear. We'll see how the system works. ANet is usually smart about things like this, but they've had some awful failures in the past, like the Ursan Age of GW1.

Come to think of it, GW1's Ursan Age was a result of ANet trying to add vertical progression to GW1. Umm, yeah. That went well.

  sfc1971

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/08
Posts: 423

11/13/12 4:45:48 AM#10

Oh god, this will be lotro hope gear debacle all over again.

Lotro originally was a nice casual MMO were everyone could raid with any gear and raid gear was nice but not a must, there were no gates. The mines of moria expansion changed all that. And every patch since has tried to undo the disaster that caused people to first not bother with Moria and then leave for other games as they got sick of being asked to please get raid gear so they could help out with raids to get raid gear...

If I wanted that, I would play WoW. I don't.

One of my chars has full exotic gear, I got lucky with silly skin drops and got 200 gold from selling them during halloween, so splurged. Normally I don't bother, crafted is good enough for me. I will help with a dungeon if needed but worrying about drops is just not my thing.

This is not a "I want top gear easily" it is a "I want to play the game without having to make it into a job". If I can't enter a dungeon, I won't and then raiders who need me to heal can go find someone else who is willing to grind for a random loot drop.

Gated content only divides the player base and the last thing a MMO needs is that.

  Vesavius

Old School

Joined: 3/08/04
Posts: 7145

Players come for the game, but they stay for the people- Most Devs have forgotten this.

11/13/12 4:55:20 AM#11
Originally posted by Ecoces

a new Condition is being brought into the game called "agony" where you will have to focus on a specific "resistance stat" in order to beat tougher content because of Agony.

 

this scares the hell out of me, i have seen a few games try to add a specific "defensive stat" to PVE encounters. this is usually done as a gate mechanic and usually seperates communities between those that have it and those that don't. you think you will see "group looking for 2 more with Ascended gear"? no what you will see is "group looking for 2 more must have 300+ "agony prevention stat""

 

'Elitest' = Folks that ask for you to have achieved the same as them in order to not repeatedly fail the content provided.

 

I can't hate them for that. In fact I prefer them over the 'everyone has to be equal' people.  

 

 

 

  Lobotomist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/20/07
Posts: 4808

I got so much trouble on my mind Refuse to lose.

11/13/12 5:07:47 AM#12
Agony = straight copy from LOTRO "Dread" (and radiance gear needed to reduce it)

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3301

11/13/12 5:12:46 AM#13
Originally posted by 1vald2

You got something wrong here. There is no "elitist" in this game. EVERYBODY is the same, for those that want a challenge, they need to get the agony stats. Otherwise, for the casual gamer there is no benefit whatsoever from getting loot from that new dungeon since this is not tier 1.5 or something. The stats on this "ascended armor" are a VERY small improvement to the exotic lvl 80 armors. Exactly like exotic -> legendary stats. Actually it's even a smaller improvement than exotic -> legendary since they mentioned ascended armor to be in between those 2. 

My guess is that ascended armor will not be as hard to obtain as legendary armor, so in a way they are catering to the casual crowd.

Thought people finally realised this isn't WoW 2.0, where the game is also called grind for top tier.

 

You are wrong. And the reason is that Ascended armor has higher stats, which are potentially needed for WvW and that new skins for weapons can only be gotten from said dungeon. ANET took the lazy way of increasing diffculty of dungeons. Its the same as giving a mob more health. They should of went with stuff like, in order to beat this boss you have do this puzzle or this bosses is hard because theres traps all over the place, or this boss is hard because theres a special way to kill it.


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  Vhaln

Novice Member

Joined: 7/07/05
Posts: 3167

11/13/12 5:36:09 AM#14

Seems to me that it would have been more in line with their manifesto and original design philosophy, if they added this new dungeon, and it was like the Mad King's Labyrinth, where everyone gets bumped to lv.80, and it's not gated at all.  They could even make it a public instance the same way, so that instead of forced grouping, you'd just have to find some people to run with, once inside.  This would go a long way to taking the edge off the elitism of these new mechanics.

 

They could do something like that, similar, but unique, different, original, and true to their vision.  Instead, they do appear to be going the WoW-clone route of gated content and gear grinds.. and we know how well that's worked out, for every single MMO that isn't actually WoW.

 

I want to reserve judgement.. but this is all sounding pretty bad, to me.

When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  ChrisReitz

Novice Member

Joined: 8/21/07
Posts: 127

11/13/12 6:11:01 AM#15
I dont know if you all forgot but in gw1 to get that kind of gear you talked to someone during a mission and it will do it to all of your gear dont know why you are thinking about it like that... It might be a drink and a time limit that would be cool...Well if this gear is just for this new dungeon and you have to repeat it to get this certain gear and it doesnt work with 99 percent of the map I cant see how grinding it to get it be very important at all... Sorta sounds like a waste of time to me... the rewards of doing a dungeon isnt the best in the world either by the time yo u get done it isnt like you get so many good stuff.. lol
  mazut

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/23/08
Posts: 826

11/13/12 10:02:29 AM#16

As I wrote in the already closed threat. I see this Agony and ascended gear as a way to make the game more challenging for myself. I stil dont know the numbers, but running the dungeon without or with only one or two ascended items will make it more challenging, so this si kind of Hard Mode from my point of view.

I pleaded several times on the official forums and before that on Guru, for personal Hard Mode option. Either a switch or self/party buff that lower your stats even more. That way the environment become harder for you, but it stay the same for everyone else. I see this infusion exactly as this challenge I miss right now. Will see if it will work that way.

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

11/13/12 10:07:13 AM#17
Originally posted by Ecoces

a new Condition is being brought into the game called "agony" where you will have to focus on a specific "resistance stat" in order to beat tougher content because of Agony.

 

this scares the hell out of me, i have seen a few games try to add a specific "defensive stat" to PVE encounters. this is usually done as a gate mechanic and usually seperates communities between those that have it and those that don't. you think you will see "group looking for 2 more with Ascended gear"? no what you will see is "group looking for 2 more must have 300+ "agony prevention stat""

 

i have seen this type of defensive stat added to one of my favorite MMOs ... EQ2. It was called Crit Mitigation and if you did not have enough you would get one shotted by raid mobs, and no amount of skill would stop that from happening. Eventually you needed X amount of Crit Mit in order to even join PVE groups especially raid group.

 

EQ2 finally removed this stat from the game EVERYONE was happy, from the casual game to the Hardcore Raider.

 

i think Agony is a terrible mechanic, thats going to split the PVE elitist from the rest even further. this is in my opinion worse than ascended gear.

Agony could be Spectral Agony from GW1 - had infusion in GW1. Nothing new here....

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  botrytis

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 2516

11/13/12 10:09:13 AM#18
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Agony = straight copy from LOTRO "Dread" (and radiance gear needed to reduce it)

Actually. took from Spectral Agony from GW1:Prohpecies. Infusion was needed to reduce damage.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1017

11/13/12 11:56:08 AM#19
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Agony = straight copy from LOTRO "Dread" (and radiance gear needed to reduce it)

Exactly and what was the end result for LOTRO? It was stupid, people hated it and it was removed.

 

"As of Update 2 - Echoes of the Dead (March 2011), radiance has been removed and is no longer required for any raid."

 

Learn from past mistakes!

  Jyiiga

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/03/10
Posts: 1017

11/13/12 11:57:19 AM#20
Originally posted by botrytis
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Agony = straight copy from LOTRO "Dread" (and radiance gear needed to reduce it)

Actually. took from Spectral Agony from GW1:Prohpecies. Infusion was needed to reduce damage.

and as I have pointed out to you in another thread. It was something you infused into existing gear. GW1 gear progression remained horizonal with stats. This new infusion is not the same as GW1 as it requires special higher stat gear. 

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