Originally posted by FromHell

Originally posted by Whitebeards

the content just didn't come fast enough after release.

 

 

But what is the definition of content?

Was "Legacy System" content?

Is an "event" content? They had two, a good one (Rakghouls) and the other one was a little uninspired.

When does the game really feel bigger or more interesting, if they add X number of flashpoints? Or X number of OPs ?

Because at the moment the last thing that would bring me back would be a new flashpoint or a new OP.

Also would it really help the game if they added a new boxed-in planet to the other boxed-in planets which are already there?

 

 

Legacy was more like fluff . Compare these tiny updates to the ones Trion has been churning out since release. Easy to see the difference.

Originally posted by Whitebeards

I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.

Originally posted by FromHell

The hardcore main focus on storytelling is the devil!!

They built planet maps and buildings around the stories. They went like, "ok we have these stories, now which set pieces do we need."

Like a freakin movie set list.

 

They did NOT have this approach:

"Let's build fantastic and vibrant Star Wars worlds with amazing gameplay mechanics and top it off with great stories."

 

The hardcore story/voiceover focus ruined the game. I feel enlightened.

 

Is this why NPC stood around and did nothing? Frozen in time, like walking through a diorama. I laughed at the idea when people said NPC were too static, after looking around the game, I though, OMG people are right, few things moved around at all. Not sure if they fixed this after almast a year or so, since i haven't played in a long time.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Whitebeards

I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.

Trion did it so yes it can be done.

A large portion of the players loved the story and loved the way leveling went and how alike it was to the single player games of KtoR. Obviously the OP is correct and the MMO part of the game was just not very well structured even though it was a beautiful and amazing game.

Having such large company like EA breathing down Biowares neck because of the budget and time they used during development that it was rushed to the market. Everyone can tell that the Pre-launch website was full of content that was good for lore but really nothing came out of it. There was no benefit in spending 300 million dollars in writers for content and putting so much time and effort to even have side quests voice acted if in the end we were left in a cliff hanger. just waiting for more...

Developers had the mindset of "Everyone will enjoy the story so much they will role other characters!!!"

Unfortunate thing is that they missed two of the most essential things of an MMO: systems (Rated PvP, Arena, end-game content etc...) and replay value. To no surprise the game came to a very awkward position when people reached end-game and saw that only thing they could do is explore the planets and farm Eternity Vault. PvPers were thrown under the bus with the fail that was the capture based pvp area that was supposely going to evolve open world pvp. The unmotivating grind of huttball (because thats all you got to play EVER... i liked huttball though lol) without any incentives to actually keep grinding them. The oh so buggy and lagtastic raid that was Eternity Vault. The 2nd boss would not despawn thus running back would sometimes cause people to aggro him and cause us to wipe. 3rd boss was actually very cool puzzle. 4th boss was an awesome fight. Going into Soa and having to depend on luck to not get the 2nd level to have missing pieces of the floor and thunder balls that would not despawn when their target was being thrown around thus having a cluster f*** of damage. Even the 3rd phase were Soa would lag and miss the pylon to take off his shield. Awesome concept but very poorly programmed.

SWtoR has improved TREMENDOUSLY, their custom gear system is the best I have used in a very long time, the raids are improving, and pvp is actually getting some attention (im still sadface since its still pretty stale).

I recommend everyone to try the game out when it goes F2P its worth it 100%. But for the end game I personally will wait until they add more systems and content before paying for that.

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Whitebeards

I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.

Trion did it so yes it can be done.

Trion does not rely solely on singleplayer instanced storylines. Nor have they been very successful, they've had to merge servers more than twice.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Whitebeards

I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.

Trion did it so yes it can be done.

Trion does not rely solely on singleplayer instanced storylines. Nor have they been very successful, they've had to merge servers more than twice.

Compared to SWTOR i would say thye have been very successful with their regular content updates. As far as single player storylines are concerned, SWTOR can only blame themselves for that. Trion recovered all their investment and even made profit on top of that after one year of release and now they are releasing a huge expansion. Where is SWTOR in that regards?

But they did do a rakghoul event sadly more open world stuff like that didn't follow

Originally posted by FromHell

The hardcore main focus on storytelling is the devil!!

They built planet maps and buildings around the stories. They went like, "ok we have these stories, now which set pieces do we need."

Like a freakin movie set list.

 

They did NOT have this approach:

"Let's build fantastic and vibrant Star Wars worlds with amazing gameplay mechanics and top it off with great stories."

 

The hardcore story/voiceover focus ruined the game. I feel enlightened.

 

 Well said.  I think it was how many of us felt (though not because of the hardcore story / voiceover, but because they dictated a set rather than adding depth  to an otherwise already  vibrant world-- which they failed to ever create).

What went wrong was the story.  Once you hit 50 and finished you class quests you were done.  That is way to much like single player.  They built all the crap around the story.  So when you rolled an alt well you had to do it all over again, it became boring and you quit.

Honestly nothing can bring me back at this point, you could add 30 planets, they all felt plastic and lifeless. 

Originally posted by eddieg50

Originally posted by Ahnog
I think the stories are the best part of the game.

  Agreed and that is why I liked it. Others were expecting SWG2,

I've never played SWG, not even a trial. What I was expecting? I was expecting something fun. I was expecting a game world that would draw me in. I was expecting something along the lines of KOTOR. What I got was a static, boring, wow-in-space clone that couldn't keep a playerbase and quickly ended up a ghost town.

The problem is Star Wars is about worlds and the freedom of movement in it, even in the movies.

Swtor didn't provide worlds. What they provided are instances with boundaries.

Story is not the problem. It is the fact that they built worlds based on story, instead of story for the worlds was the issue here (as someone mentioned before) - because doing it this way kills the sense of immersion for the player (and Star Wars experience has always been about immersion).

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Ahnog
I think the stories are the best part of the game.

You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.

I don't understand why many would consider that to be the games biggest problem.... What is an RPG without story? 

And please don't start on RPers and/or sandbox MMO's and making up your own story..... That's not a true RPG, (In my experience)... A Game Master/Dungeon Master doesn't have you roll up your character, outfit them and then, just say "Okay here you go, your in this world there's creatures here, and creatures there and NPC's here and there none of which really have any purpose or any direction, none of them really have anything to say... now have it at.. enjoy rolling the dice to fight for no reason, all the while you, the players, are basically only chatting amongst yourselves and doing nothing, going nowhere, progressing the non-existent story... Nope there has to be direction,  a goal in a setting/module/campaign... STORY that characters react to. Bioware at least tries to do that, and in my opinion they do a great job, I love the story, I haven't hit the space bar through any of the scenes (the first time through).

Story is the best part of swtor. War zones are pretty fun also in swtor.

In my world everyone knows this.

SWTOR weakness is its themeparkyness, it's companions and harvesting and it's restrictive space combat, the fact everyone hangs at fleet and teleports right into instances. Lack of a breathing world, NPC's just stand there. 

That's swtors weakness in my world. 

Originally posted by Emeraq

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Ahnog
I think the stories are the best part of the game.

You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.

I don't understand why many would consider that to be the games biggest problem.... What is an RPG without story? 

And please don't start on RPers and/or sandbox MMO's and making up your own story..... That's not a true RPG, (In my experience)... A Game Master/Dungeon Master doesn't have you roll up your character, outfit them and then, just say "Okay here you go, your in this world there's creatures here, and creatures there and NPC's here and there none of which really have any purpose or any direction, none of them really have anything to say... now have it at.. enjoy rolling the dice to fight for no reason, all the while you, the players, are basically only chatting amongst yourselves and doing nothing, going nowhere, progressing the non-existent story... Nope there has to be direction,  a goal in a setting/module/campaign... STORY that characters react to. Bioware at least tries to do that, and in my opinion they do a great job, I love the story, I haven't hit the space bar through any of the scenes (the first time through).

 

 

 

+1000 for this!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Whitebeards

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Whitebeards

I really doubt that is the reason. I am quite sure that the real downfall was poor support post release and snail speed at which they were churning out content.

Guys... you cannot churn out content fast enough. It is the core problem of themepark games that rely on scripted instanced content.

Trion did it so yes it can be done.

Trion does not rely solely on singleplayer instanced storylines. Nor have they been very successful, they've had to merge servers more than twice.

Compared to SWTOR i would say thye have been very successful

Compared to the biggest failure in MMO history even Vanguard looks like a success.

Originally posted by Emeraq

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Ahnog
I think the stories are the best part of the game.

You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.

I don't understand why many would consider that to be the games biggest problem.... What is an RPG without story?

Uh... still an RPG.

What is a massively multiplayer game without people?

Oh... right.

Rubbish.

Every MMO out there is made around story, what do you think they just build /random world and then look at what they have?

SWTORs "staticness" doesnt have anything to do with their story telling, because every other MMO out ther is more-less like that, frozen in time story takes place (except WoWs Cata? and remake)

You just unraveled 15 years known secret - MMOs are built so every player that plays it after you has same experience - even you on an alt.

Man, rubbish people can come out with lol

SWTORs problem is they cloned 8 -12 year old games, released 2004 game in 2012, with awfully stale and anti-social endgame (aka grind FPs/raids for gear) and that they heavily shifted focus from unique class stories in leveling to generic MMO quests (so awful replayability AND awful "staticness" was born just as in any generic EQ/WoW clone).

Originally posted by Emeraq

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by Ahnog
I think the stories are the best part of the game.

You are correct and that is the games biggest problem.

I don't understand why many would consider that to be the games biggest problem.... What is an RPG without story? 

And please don't start on RPers and/or sandbox MMO's and making up your own story..... That's not a true RPG, (In my experience)... A Game Master/Dungeon Master doesn't have you roll up your character, outfit them and then, just say "Okay here you go, your in this world there's creatures here, and creatures there and NPC's here and there none of which really have any purpose or any direction, none of them really have anything to say... now have it at.. enjoy rolling the dice to fight for no reason, all the while you, the players, are basically only chatting amongst yourselves and doing nothing, going nowhere, progressing the non-existent story... Nope there has to be direction,  a goal in a setting/module/campaign... STORY that characters react to. Bioware at least tries to do that, and in my opinion they do a great job, I love the story, I haven't hit the space bar through any of the scenes (the first time through).

 

 

 

Well I don't think the pen and paper analogy really works. In pen and paper you don't have the restrictions of technology. You could go out and find your own world, and you have the option to do so unless the guy running the game is a control freak. Sure, the GM will give you stories, but if he is good at GMing, you can also do what you want.

Originally posted by mikahr

Rubbish.

Every MMO out there is made around story, what do you think they just build /random world and then look at what they have?

SWTORs "staticness" doesnt have anything to do with their story telling, because every other MMO out ther is more-less like that, frozen in time story takes place (except WoWs Cata? and remake)

You just unraveled 15 years known secret - MMOs are built so every player that plays it after you has same experience - even you on an alt.

Man, rubbish people can come out with lol

SWTORs problem is they cloned 8 -12 year old games, released 2004 game in 2012, with awfully stale and anti-social endgame (aka grind FPs/raids for gear) and that they heavily shifted focus from unique class stories in leveling to generic MMO quests (so awful replayability AND awful "staticness" was born just as in any generic EQ/WoW clone).

Actually they did worse.

Those games in 2004 managed to have sunsets , night and day , and weather.

EQ in 99 could make it rain and change time.

EA/Bioware in 2010 couldn't even make that work.

But they had voices man , voices , and that to them was more important than a virtual world that didn't seem beyond stale.