Originally posted by DMKano

That would make no sense - gw2 is targeted at casual players, raids have no place among the casual players, as it takes 100s of hours of dedicated gameplay with a large guild to progress through raid content.

large raiding guilds don't play gw2, casuals have no time to play raids.

it be like opening a surf shop in Antarctica - pointless 

 

If you say so. I guess alot of people are just "casual" mmorpg 'ers with most of there servers full. The game even had to quit saleing after its first week. You might as well pack up and go to antracitca cause you are in your own head if you actually beleive that...

You are going to have a tough time convincing me that adding raids are a good thing. Based on the history of most modern MMOs and some MMOs of the past, raids have almost always ended up being the only part of the game that gets any development, to the detriment of every other feature. Now granted, this is because these things take a lot of dev time and resources, but the fact that it ends up so bad to the point that everything else is trivialized for this makes it, IMO, something that should be left out completely.

Now if you can figure out a way to add it in a manner that puts it on level with everything else, and DOESN't trivialize content that isn't raiding, then I probably won't care.

Guild Wars 1 didn't have raids, but it did have content for 'end game' that was in my mind SUBSTANTIALLY more challenging than any Raid I ever did in WoW or its clones. Hell GW2's dungeons (without an experienced group) are just as hard as any of WoWs raids currently are.

GW2 doesn't need raids. Raids exist solely for one purpose... to keep you playing and paying for as long as possible. In most MMOGs time = money, so if the developers can addict you to spending 8 hours three + times a week raiding for that 1% chance drop you really want or the 2000 badges you need for that full set of armor that you have to have. Once you are willing to do that and pay monthly for it, you find youself readily accepting that cost. How many of you (and me, at one point) have spent half your time in WoW just sitting around in town, showing off your gear, waiting for your guild to get started for your next 6 hour raid, or doing your 50 daily quests again and again and again and never having a second thought about the fact that you were PAYING for that proviledge.

For me, GW2 opened my eyes to this fact. I get (IMHO) far more fun, tuns of content, and every feature and then some that other MMOGs offer and I never have to pay a DIME past initial purchase if I don't want to. (Not that I haven't, I have 'rewarded' Anet with my $ spent on gems a few times now, though most my gem purchases I bought with in game money). Guild Wars 2 doesn't need a way to addict players into playing for as long as possible, as often as possible. They don't make their money by keeping you logged in 12 hours a day, and therefor have absolutely no use for raiding.

I laugh when I see people saying GW2 is casual because Hardcore MMOGs have raids. Most of the folks who say that have no experience beyond the snorefest easymode of WoW raiding. If any of them had ever even touched some of the truly challenging PvP and PvE of GW1, they'd drop the idea of Raiding = Hardcore MMOG like a bad habbit. GW2 is well on its way with challenging 5 man dungeons, that 50% of poeple flat out hate because of their difficulty. The rest of us have mastered most of them already and are ready for more. The multi-tiered dungeon coming out on the 15th if Anets past work is any indication, will be extremely challenging in the lower 'levels', and extremely fun.

It's such a breath of fresh air from the days I used to be half AFK watching TV while hitting the 3 macros I used on my Hunter during WotC in the raids.. all while always topping the DPS charts. What a fool I was for paying monthly for that.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins
At this point, any additions to endgame would be welcome.

This one addition surely not, for anyone who loves raiding there is enough games with raiding.

I would look into how long the blocklist in GW2 is and start looking for a new game to play.

Ok that might be a bit of an exaggeration. RAIDS in GW2 do nothing except make it less appealing to me however.

Originally posted by Mothanos

GW2 is unique it doesnt need endgame, WoW is for endgame carrot on a stick endgame and it has no place for it in GW2.

Also i think WvW needs to reward a little more then abit of karma a few cosmetic brag items woulnt hurt it i think.
But pve was never the main focus of Anet and altough they have one of the hardest dungeons ingame out of any mmo i ever played it is just not made for that platform.

So the oh so annoying commander icon on the mini map isn't bragging enough? OR the fact that you need the pvp currency for legendaries isn't enough either? okay. Don't understand that. I can understand wanting more but they do already have some that are pretty loud indicators that you earned them.

I personally would like to see them address the problems of MF and it's not function properly considering if it's necessary that someone should reach 300% to actually see something drop that's useful, they need to lower that to something that players can actually reach effectively. Last night I was at 150% with armor weapons food and guild boon and nothing was dropping but greys. The moment I took all of that off and left myself with only about 30% THEN and only then did Rares start dropping for me. Keep in mind now I was doing a rampage run through then entire lower Orr zone we looted splendid chests and everything and nothing was dropping for me the entire time. So you have to wonder, why did they put whole armor sets and weapons in the game to get better items when it doesn't actually get you better items. Things like that need to be addressed.

Originally posted by ChrisReitz

Originally posted by DMKano

That would make no sense - gw2 is targeted at casual players, raids have no place among the casual players, as it takes 100s of hours of dedicated gameplay with a large guild to progress through raid content.

large raiding guilds don't play gw2, casuals have no time to play raids.

it be like opening a surf shop in Antarctica - pointless 

 

If you say so. I guess alot of people are just "casual" mmorpg 'ers with most of there servers full. The game even had to quit saleing after its first week. You might as well pack up and go to antracitca cause you are in your own head if you actually beleive that...

I think your automatic defence mechanism may have a short circuit.

Originally posted by DMKano

That would make no sense - gw2 is targeted at casual players, raids have no place among the casual players, as it takes 100s of hours of dedicated gameplay with a large guild to progress through raid content.

 

This isn't 2008.  Look at WOWs LFR for casual friendly raid design.

Also, ANET never said they wouldn't add raid content.  They said it wasn't going to be on release but they would listen to the player base to find out what they want added most.  So, LOL at the "betrayed" sentiment.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by DMKano

That would make no sense - gw2 is targeted at casual players, raids have no place among the casual players, as it takes 100s of hours of dedicated gameplay with a large guild to progress through raid content.

 

This isn't 2008.  Look at WOWs LFR for casual friendly raid design.

 

Also, ANET never said they wouldn't add raid content.  They said it wasn't going to be on release but they would listen to the player base to find out what they want added most.  So, LOL at the "betrayed" sentiment.

The way raids are now, everyone would just believe that raids are the only part of the game that matters, and the whole game would get trivialized. HOW IS THAT BENEFICIAL IN ANYWAY, except to appease the egos of the people who spend all of their time raiding?

Originally posted by Enigmatus

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

Originally posted by DMKano

That would make no sense - gw2 is targeted at casual players, raids have no place among the casual players, as it takes 100s of hours of dedicated gameplay with a large guild to progress through raid content.

 

This isn't 2008.  Look at WOWs LFR for casual friendly raid design.

 

Also, ANET never said they wouldn't add raid content.  They said it wasn't going to be on release but they would listen to the player base to find out what they want added most.  So, LOL at the "betrayed" sentiment.

The way raids are now, everyone would just believe that raids are the only part of the game that matters, and the whole game would get trivialized. HOW IS THAT BENEFICIAL IN ANYWAY, except to appease the egos of the people who spend all of their time raiding?

That depends on the rewards.  Just like the rest of the game.  Stop making assumptions about how ANET would implement raids.

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

The way raids are now, everyone would just believe that raids are the only part of the game that matters, and the whole game would get trivialized. HOW IS THAT BENEFICIAL IN ANYWAY, except to appease the egos of the people who spend all of their time raiding?

That depends on the rewards.  Just like the rest of the game.  Stop making assumptions about how ANET would implement raids.

I ain't thinking about how ANet will IMPLEMENT it, I'm thinking about how everyone else will react to it, and I think they will just assume that raiding is the only real part of the game and dump everything else off a cliff just because of old habits.

Well if they add raids in GW2 , it would be the hardest raids ever, as per no trinity.

I dont think they will as per that fact but if they do the hardcore raiders could get a blast out of this. Except if we get the usual wow raiders. They just complain on everything. ( too hard, too easy etc.etc. ). 

But again i would not like that for 1 specific reason. What would be the point???  No gear progression in this game. 

I dont want to spend weeks or months trying to figure out how to down a boss or multiple boss in a raid for nothing except a pat on the back or some gear that change my  look. 

They will need to include Trinity in this part of the game to have it work out well. It is not fun doing dungeons right now , so who in there right mind would include raids on top of this.

My opinion only !!!

To get people wanting to log on more often than a couple times a month, this game would need some kind of enema.

It's too single player oriented with meaningless PVP.  Slap onto that how anti-social it is, even for an online single player game, and it's no wonder that ArenaNet keeps needing to downsize their sever capacity threshholds.  Amazing how a full server has no overflow, eh?

I'm on a full server and there is like 2 map shouts per hour, and those Event NPC's are annoying as hell, because I'm practically the only one in a zone, they keep bugging me to help. Grr.. I start their event and then let them run off to die just so they will leave me alone for 15 minutes or so.

In this games current state, I can only last 15-30 minutes before I log out again, because, frankly, it's boring as hell.

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Originally posted by Fion
Guild Wars 1 didn't have raids

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Guild Wars 1 has Elite Missions. I remember a couple having a max of 12 players.

Did you really play GW1?

So long as they expanded their existing content, I don't see why they couldn't do it. There are a lot of people who like raids, and a lot of people who like GW2, and I expect there's a lot of people who fit into both categories.

Now, if they added a big, end game raid and that's all that they added, and it wasn't really any different than the raids in WoW or SWToR, then I'd call that a fail. But I don't see them doing that. They have a primary, long term audience and I don't think it's those hard core raiders. So while they might add a raid in addition to other stuff, I don't think they'd add a raid instead of other stuff.

Hmmm, I guess the only response I can think of to all the people saying "what's the point if there's no gear progression?" is "challenge+comraderie+achievement+fun." 

Are we all really that chained to the WoW model that we need to have a power gear trophy?  When a baseball team wins the world series, do they get gear that makes them better?  No, they're already using the best gear money can buy.  They DO get a nice ring that they can show to their friends.