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  stux

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/23/09
Posts: 469

11/10/12 11:33:47 PM#21

1. Asheron's Call quests

2. Asheron's Call dungeons

3. Asheron's Call loot system - tinkering

4. Asheron's Call character development 

5. Darkfall's gameplay for pvp

 

Basically take Darkfall's gameplay/graphics  and combine it with everything else in Asheron's Call and I would be happy.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

11/10/12 11:37:52 PM#22
Originally posted by strangiato2112

5. EQ2 Housing

Ive probably lost a lot of people already.  But SWG and UO were open world!  This is true, and those games have the #2 and #3 spots on the best housing list, but I think that EQ2 is a step above.  The possibilities really are endless and the houses and guild halls people create are amazing.

The casual homeowner can simply decorate modestly, or just diplay all his kill and quest trophies.  And the super-creative can take a blank island and build their dream house from blocks and tiles.

Throw in the large amount of holiday themed housing items and you can easily decorate your guild hall for christmas or create a halloween themed island with mazes and surprises around every corner.

The next step would be to combine this with SWGs cities....maybe the company that created both systems could merge them for their...next...game?

4. WAR's Tome of Knowledge.  MMOs these days all seem to have achievement systems.  This is obviously an offshoot of XBOX Live popularizing the concept, but the first (I think) AAA MMORPG to introduce the concept did so in the most creative of ways..

Not only did achievements reward you the customary titles and such, the ToK rewarded you with more lore and information about the game world.  

Even the boring kill x of mob y achievements were more interesting in WAR, because after a set amount you would have to seek out a lair or a specific named.

Since WAR was mostly billed as a PvP game (as a side note youll find no PvP systems in this list as I am a primary PvEr), the ToK didnt get much publicity and when WAR basically dumped the PvE aspect of their game it fell into obscurity.

3. SWG crafting

From the resource gathering (and resource stats) to the experimentation to the mass produced factory runs, the SWG crafting system was brilliant.  Nothing more really needs to be said, and I think this is the one item on my lst that most will agree on.

Funny, 2 out of three systems so far are in SoE games.  Will it be 4 out of 5?

2. EQ AAs

AAs served two important purposes in the game, both of which modern MMORPGs struglle with.

The first is non gear related progression at max level.  AAs helped keep the RPG trait of character growth a permanent trait, as opposed to something that went away at max level when it became a gear grind (gear acquisition is NOT charcater growth).

The second is it provides a benefits to everyone in the party, not just the person you wer ehelping achieve a goal.  It also lessened the blow of the rng coming up short, since you did get something positive out of your play time.

But hey, EQ was great before the AAs got added in.  It was obviously a fantastic virtual world, but was there something else that sets it apart?

Yes.

1. EQ Group mechanics

People talk about the holy trinity as heals. dps. tank.  That is absolutely incorrect.  the Holy Trinity comes from EQ, and that Holy Trinity was Warrior/Cleric/Enchanter.  Those three classes were the backbone to every group.  But if that was the whole story, it wouldnt be as interesting.  No, EQ was deeper than that.  Of course in group settings a SK or Pally could take the warrior's place, and in 90% of the group content even a well geared/AA'd Ranger could take the place. 

A traditional EQ group needed these roles filled: tank, healer, slower, and puller or crowd control (basically a way to ensure group would fight one mob at a time because two mobs could equal death).  And this traditional group could be filled out in a large variety of ways.  And for those times where you had one add and couldnt mez it, maybe the ranger could root it.  or the necro could kite it.  So many different classes with so many different skill sets offered many, many ways to get the job done

Heck even non traditional groups were around.  Kite groups where some poor soul would piss a mob off and runt it in circles while the rest of the group killed it.   No heals or tank needed.

Perhaps this type of thing will never happen again.  Some of the mechanics (such as feign death pulling or kiting) werent even intended by the devs, they just took on a life of their own.  but more companies need to look at ths class interplay that made EQ so special.

Agree but SWG had better housing. THe ecoration part atleast. Was wonderful to walk into someones guildhall or cantina and see how nicely decorated it was. It was like a mini game lol. tilt, tip, back, forward, up, down, move things anywhere. Was real nice.

  Blazeyer

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 471

:)

11/10/12 11:39:31 PM#23

1. FFXI

a- to this day EVERY facit of endgame is relevant

b- this is because of gearswapping

c- all classes (jobs), 1 character.

d- actual MMO. GROUPING!

2. SWG

a- community

b- setting

c- housing, to go further into detail: non-instanced, useful in so many ways

d- liked the "jedi" system, and skill system.

3. WoW

a- fun leveling 1-60: say what you want about the game, but I've never had more fun getting to max level in any mmo.

b- not afraid to change their game (not saying the changes are good, but you have to give them credit for always mixing things up)

4. EVE

a- the world is what the players make of it

b- actual value in what you're doing

c- single server

5. RIFT

a- Trion is by far the best support staff without question that I have personally dealt with

b- non stop content generation

  cippalippa

Novice Member

Joined: 6/22/11
Posts: 111

11/10/12 11:39:37 PM#24
  • Immersion: Age of Conan. No other games can drag me into the world settings as AoC does. Everything is just perfect-on-the-edge-of-the-spot. Art direction is astonishing, lore, atmosphere... and the music. Gosh it is so sad the game itself lacks in many other parts and it seems like unfinished.
  • Combat: DCUO. It is simple, but requires actual skills; it has a very simple rock-paper-scissor logic and it is like playing an arcade beat-em up. Pity the abilitiy system is somewhat lacking and not so well integrated, like it is in GW2 with fields and finishers for example.
  • One big world: WOW Vanilla. The sense of getting lost wandering through the world was amazing... until it lasted and we all stood in Ironforge to go Black Rock. Then came BC and further others separate continents, that was the start of the decline. 
  • Crafting: Vanguard. Probably, with the except of crafting/economics based games like EVE, it is the best i've found in a fantasy game.
  • Character development. GURSP. Not an online game, board and dice, old school :) Similar in concept with TSW character developement. Classless, totally based on skills. But where TSW is equipment bound, in GURSP any skill "magnitude" is only based on the grade of the experienced  which that skill was actually succesfully used,  add equipment independent, and soft capped.
oh gee, already five... well good night then, i'm off :)
  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19094

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

11/11/12 12:14:56 AM#25

1) EVE's real time skill training, not tied to time spent in game.  Love it or hate it, there's nothing quite like it and one of my favorite MMORPG features of all time.

2) Blessed Teleport Scrolls (B-Tels) - From Lineage 1, loved the way you could set a location (up to 30) in the game world and teleport back to it when you wanted using one of these scrolls.  Made them a valuable trade commodity that funded much of my spells and gear.

3) 3 faction PVP - Dark Age of Camelot - The perfect storm, no game has ever gotten this right since, and I really now appreciate the simple beauty behind the system.

4) EVE's economy - There's been no game quite like it, so many years since it launched, yet the economy is totally in control, even with the selling of PLEX's and in game farmers.  Amazing the economy continues to hold up. (but maybe not, they employ an economist to keep it running right)

5) Interdependent game / social  mechanics, including grouping, crafting and other interactive systems to encourage in game socialization between players.  (Largely extinct in modern MMO's)

 

Arrogant, Dismissive, Elitist, you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

 
OP  11/11/12 12:17:01 AM#26
Originally posted by Onomas

Agree but SWG had better housing. THe ecoration part atleast. Was wonderful to walk into someones guildhall or cantina and see how nicely decorated it was. It was like a mini game lol. tilt, tip, back, forward, up, down, move things anywhere. Was real nice.

SWG had a *lot* less to work with than EQ2 does.  Go check out the Norrathian Homeshow threads on EQ2s forums.  What people can do in EQ2 is absolutely mind boggling.  

  Traugar

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 168

11/11/12 12:30:51 AM#27
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Onomas

Agree but SWG had better housing. THe ecoration part atleast. Was wonderful to walk into someones guildhall or cantina and see how nicely decorated it was. It was like a mini game lol. tilt, tip, back, forward, up, down, move things anywhere. Was real nice.

SWG had a *lot* less to work with than EQ2 does.  Go check out the Norrathian Homeshow threads on EQ2s forums.  What people can do in EQ2 is absolutely mind boggling.  

How did SWG have less?  In SWG I could place any item in the game.  In EQ2 I am limited as to what I can place.  I wish EQ2 would let me decorate with anything I might have picked up.  

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

 
OP  11/11/12 12:35:18 AM#28
Originally posted by Traugar
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Onomas

Agree but SWG had better housing. THe ecoration part atleast. Was wonderful to walk into someones guildhall or cantina and see how nicely decorated it was. It was like a mini game lol. tilt, tip, back, forward, up, down, move things anywhere. Was real nice.

SWG had a *lot* less to work with than EQ2 does.  Go check out the Norrathian Homeshow threads on EQ2s forums.  What people can do in EQ2 is absolutely mind boggling.  

How did SWG have less?  In SWG I could place any item in the game.  In EQ2 I am limited as to what I can place.  I wish EQ2 would let me decorate with anything I might have picked up.  

I think what people have created in EQ2 speaks for itself.  While you could drop any piece of gear, or anything, in your house, the amount of actual decoration stuff pales in comparison to eq2.

  Onomas

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/11
Posts: 1160

Sandbox is your only hope for a decent mmo ;)

11/11/12 12:37:25 AM#29
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Traugar
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Onomas

Agree but SWG had better housing. THe ecoration part atleast. Was wonderful to walk into someones guildhall or cantina and see how nicely decorated it was. It was like a mini game lol. tilt, tip, back, forward, up, down, move things anywhere. Was real nice.

SWG had a *lot* less to work with than EQ2 does.  Go check out the Norrathian Homeshow threads on EQ2s forums.  What people can do in EQ2 is absolutely mind boggling.  

How did SWG have less?  In SWG I could place any item in the game.  In EQ2 I am limited as to what I can place.  I wish EQ2 would let me decorate with anything I might have picked up.  

I think what people have created in EQ2 speaks for itself.  While you could drop any piece of gear, or anything, in your house, the amount of actual decoration stuff pales in comparison to eq2.

Um no, the pictures and videos you can google between the 2, eq2 doesnt even copmpare. As a player of both games, eq2 was 2nd best to swg. ANd btw SWG had tens of thousands of items to decorate with. Go see some old housing decoration showcases. Blows EQ2 out of the water on every aspect. Sorry, but just no

  Traugar

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 168

11/11/12 12:39:37 AM#30
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Traugar
Originally posted by strangiato2112
Originally posted by Onomas

Agree but SWG had better housing. THe ecoration part atleast. Was wonderful to walk into someones guildhall or cantina and see how nicely decorated it was. It was like a mini game lol. tilt, tip, back, forward, up, down, move things anywhere. Was real nice.

SWG had a *lot* less to work with than EQ2 does.  Go check out the Norrathian Homeshow threads on EQ2s forums.  What people can do in EQ2 is absolutely mind boggling.  

How did SWG have less?  In SWG I could place any item in the game.  In EQ2 I am limited as to what I can place.  I wish EQ2 would let me decorate with anything I might have picked up.  

I think what people have created in EQ2 speaks for itself.  While you could drop any piece of gear, or anything, in your house, the amount of actual decoration stuff pales in comparison to eq2.

I have seen what people have created in EQ2.  Some of it is amazing.  Well beyond my capability, but I was able to say the same thing about SWG.  Did you see some of the things people created in that game?  There were people on the server that specialized in it.  I have paid people well to decorate some of my homes.  Either way both games have/had excellant housing options.  I just don't see EQ2's as being better simply because there have been items I would have liked to decorate with, but wasn't able to.  

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

 
OP  11/11/12 12:45:22 AM#31

Here is an example of something very non traditional in EQ2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G06zheGi3Ho

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

 
OP  11/11/12 12:53:08 AM#32
Originally posted by Traugar

I have seen what people have created in EQ2.  Some of it is amazing.  Well beyond my capability, but I was able to say the same thing about SWG.  Did you see some of the things people created in that game?  There were people on the server that specialized in it.  I have paid people well to decorate some of my homes.  Either way both games have/had excellant housing options.  I just don't see EQ2's as being better simply because there have been items I would have liked to decorate with, but wasn't able to.  

I think we can agree you cant go wrong with either

  Rydeson

Elite Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 3342

11/11/12 4:06:36 AM#33

Good post OP..

  1. Housing - I agree that having some form of housing whether it be SWG, EQ2 or LoTRO style, is a great bonus to a game .. I personally felt that EQ2 had the biggest and best options to housing..  I have split feelings on how SWG was done.. Putting your house down almost anwhere you wanted and guilds making cities were GREAT, but it abused as well, when cities morphed into "forts"... Really?  
  2. Achievement system is another thing I loved seeing added to a game.. The only I truely remember and enjoyed was WoW's.. If gives players things to do for fun..
  3. Crafting - HUGE content must here.. I can't imagine a game not having this, or wanting it.. SWG had a great idea on crafting for the masses and making unique products..  I loved how resources moved and changed over time, which all had an effect on what was made and sold on the market.. excellent idea... BUT...  sometimes a simplier alternative like EQ2 is good too.. but WoW, SWTOR and Rift were just too AFK easy.. zzzzzzzzzzzz
  4. I loved EQ's AAs..  It became part of character progression, but it did have it's issues when they became requirements for end game content.. This is just as bad as WoW's gear score bullsh*t..  For AA's to be reasonable, it has to be calculated in the formula beforehand, and make sure the game world accomidates..
  5. Grouping - I agree.. NO ONE did this as good as EQ1 did.. Hands down..  99% of the time, any group could succeed, and do it differently each time..  I remember camping an area at 59th level in SoL. We were all trying to get to the magical 60th level.. What a grind :)  I was druid healer, and we had a Ranger tank (ha ha), Bard, Necro, Shaman, someone else.. for about a week or longer.. I miss the days that games had "hybrid" classes..  It adds so much to a group dynamic..  Having this holy trinitiy as they call it today sucks..  You have to be a pure tank, healer or dps.. OR go home..... I want crowd control again, pulling, FD, buffing, debuffing, kiting, etc.. 
The only thing I would like to add is level adjustments, or mentoring..  CoH did with sidekicking, and EQ2 did it as mentoring.. BUT I love how GW2 perfected it.. NO old zone ever became obsolete... I love how I can take a higher level character and move down to a lower level zone and be rewarded for what I'm doing..  This is a HUGE social must for games that promote playing with friends or guildies..  I hated that with WoW, I often didnt' have anymore alts to go play with guildies or friends.. 
  Vlhad77

Novice Member

Joined: 8/10/12
Posts: 149

11/11/12 1:48:50 PM#34
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
It's sad, and kind of funny, that I can't make an honest post here without being trolled by like four people in just two pages.

and for my defense before well its already too late that you think your god all mighty.  I was referring to your statement where crafting and housing means very little.

  avgwhtguy069

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/09
Posts: 22

11/11/12 2:11:17 PM#35

Customization - Runes of Magic

You could create gear any way you wanted by adding any type of stats you wanted to it.  The only thing that really comes with the gear is normally 1 stat (you can remove it) and the ghost/passives.  I haven't played any other game that gives this level of customization.

 

Grouping - Everquest

The wide variety of groups and group dynamics made this by far one of my favorite parts.  Each class had a role in any group you joined.

 

Level capped advancement - Everquest

AA's.  Simply the best way I've seen yet to continually advance your character no matter what level you are.

  muffins89

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/12
Posts: 1254

11/11/12 2:14:42 PM#36
im sure it wasnt the first game with it.  but the wardrobe feature in Rift is pretty nice. 

I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  Sidereus

Novice Member

Joined: 9/12/08
Posts: 316

11/11/12 2:18:42 PM#37
Lineage 2 Castle sieges !  Dat was awesome...that's probably what I've liked the most playing this game. Tome of knowledge in WAR was cool too.

QUESTION:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xridnasa:
-
What's a "grocery store"? Is that like McDonald's?
-
ANSWER:
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidimazz:
-
Kind of, just without the rapist.

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2771

11/11/12 2:18:48 PM#38
Originally posted by strangiato2112

 

I think the WoW leveling path thing can really be traced back to EQ where each race had their own starting city (most were massive) and starting zone.  WoW was actually streamlined compared to EQ since there were fewer races and its gone downhill since.  I do agree this should be the standard.

WOws leveling path was more than just starting areas for each race.  There were two continents to choose from when leveling.  Each was enough to get you to the level cap.  It was truly two unique leveling paths per faction.  That should be the minimum standard.

  FrodoFragins

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/29/10
Posts: 2771

11/11/12 2:21:23 PM#39
Originally posted by Vlhad7734
Originally posted by FrodoFragins
It's sad, and kind of funny, that I can't make an honest post here without being trolled by like four people in just two pages.

and for my defense before well its already too late that you think your god all mighty.  I was referring to your statement where crafting and housing means very little.

I think I'm god almighty because I admit that I don't like sandbox content in MMOs?  I didn't criticize yours or anyone elses lists, even though my tastes are 100% opposite.  Not everyone likes decorating an electronic dollhouse.  I also prefer killing things to farming materials and sitting in a room waiting for stuff to craft.  That's my personal point of view.  It's neither better nor worse than anyone elses.

 

 

 

  Uproar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 2/19/04
Posts: 418

I was once Tailrot, Uproar, Bandage, Thus(tin) Hammered, Rock, and so many more. Aye gamerest.

11/11/12 2:25:46 PM#40
Originally posted by strangiato2112

5. EQ2 Housing

Ive probably lost a lot of people already.  But SWG and UO were open world!  This is true, and those games have the #2 and #3 spots on the best housing list, but I think that EQ2 is a step above.  The possibilities really are endless and the houses and guild halls people create are amazing.

The casual homeowner can simply decorate modestly, or just diplay all his kill and quest trophies.  And the super-creative can take a blank island and build their dream house from blocks and tiles.

Throw in the large amount of holiday themed housing items and you can easily decorate your guild hall for christmas or create a halloween themed island with mazes and surprises around every corner.

The next step would be to combine this with SWGs cities....maybe the company that created both systems could merge them for their...next...game?

4. WAR's Tome of Knowledge.  MMOs these days all seem to have achievement systems.  This is obviously an offshoot of XBOX Live popularizing the concept, but the first (I think) AAA MMORPG to introduce the concept did so in the most creative of ways..

Not only did achievements reward you the customary titles and such, the ToK rewarded you with more lore and information about the game world.  

Even the boring kill x of mob y achievements were more interesting in WAR, because after a set amount you would have to seek out a lair or a specific named.

Since WAR was mostly billed as a PvP game (as a side note youll find no PvP systems in this list as I am a primary PvEr), the ToK didnt get much publicity and when WAR basically dumped the PvE aspect of their game it fell into obscurity.

3. SWG crafting

From the resource gathering (and resource stats) to the experimentation to the mass produced factory runs, the SWG crafting system was brilliant.  Nothing more really needs to be said, and I think this is the one item on my lst that most will agree on.

Funny, 2 out of three systems so far are in SoE games.  Will it be 4 out of 5?

2. EQ AAs

AAs served two important purposes in the game, both of which modern MMORPGs struglle with.

The first is non gear related progression at max level.  AAs helped keep the RPG trait of character growth a permanent trait, as opposed to something that went away at max level when it became a gear grind (gear acquisition is NOT charcater growth).

The second is it provides a benefits to everyone in the party, not just the person you wer ehelping achieve a goal.  It also lessened the blow of the rng coming up short, since you did get something positive out of your play time.

But hey, EQ was great before the AAs got added in.  It was obviously a fantastic virtual world, but was there something else that sets it apart?

Yes.

1. EQ Group mechanics

People talk about the holy trinity as heals. dps. tank.  That is absolutely incorrect.  the Holy Trinity comes from EQ, and that Holy Trinity was Warrior/Cleric/Enchanter.  Those three classes were the backbone to every group.  But if that was the whole story, it wouldnt be as interesting.  No, EQ was deeper than that.  Of course in group settings a SK or Pally could take the warrior's place, and in 90% of the group content even a well geared/AA'd Ranger could take the place. 

A traditional EQ group needed these roles filled: tank, healer, slower, and puller or crowd control (basically a way to ensure group would fight one mob at a time because two mobs could equal death).  And this traditional group could be filled out in a large variety of ways.  And for those times where you had one add and couldnt mez it, maybe the ranger could root it.  or the necro could kite it.  So many different classes with so many different skill sets offered many, many ways to get the job done

Heck even non traditional groups were around.  Kite groups where some poor soul would piss a mob off and runt it in circles while the rest of the group killed it.   No heals or tank needed.

Perhaps this type of thing will never happen again.  Some of the mechanics (such as feign death pulling or kiting) werent even intended by the devs, they just took on a life of their own.  but more companies need to look at ths class interplay that made EQ so special.

Not that I overly disagree with anything you said, but  I would replace EQII housing with SWG's housing.

Also, I think something has to be said for DAOC's Merchant system.  Combine it ala EQII's merchant system with WOW's search options and you have a winner.

To add to your lists (which really takes it beyond 5).  You have to consider three more systems:

SWG's real time macro language -- pretty awesome.

Wow's customizable UI -- ex\tremely awesome.

And finally I think I would add in SWG's Dancer and Muscian and event Medic buff classes.  Very awesome non-adventuring type play class systems. Could be improved upon to make something truely fun to play.

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