Originally posted by DeniZg

Zenimax initally announced that Cyrodill open world PVP will be the only type of PVP and that concerns me the most. Everything else, I can tolerate (except maybe 5 minute loading screens in my MMO).

Also, I really hope they put alternative leveling zones within each faction. Otherwise, it's SWTOR all over again.

About exploration, I don't mind following mini-map or compass for my main story quest, as long as some new hidden quest or dungeon that isn't on mini-map pops up in front of me unexpectedly along the way.

Cyrodill is the only place where you will be able to PVP, it's plenty big enough. On top of that you will have PVE in that area as well. What we do need and this is where i think ArenaNet went wrong is a Darkness Falls type dungeon, imagine that on top of the FvF(faction vs faction) we already have.

Originally posted by KhinRunite

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by KhinRunite

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Vunak23
The most noticable positive I saw in that video is nowhere in the gameplay did I see a (!) anywhere even when they were in the towns.... Oh god could it be true?

SNIP!

You can put plenty of indicators. But they don't have to be magical hold you by the balls compasses that point out EVERYTHING so that you NEVER have to think or god forbid, EXPLORE FOR YOURSELF.

"Hey, theres a door in the side of that mountain there. Oh, but no compass pointing me that well. I guess its just nothing then!"

 

How the hell do you think people knew where stuff was before in game maps?

It's not much as to removing indicators, but putting a lot more content. What if there is indeed nothing behind the door? Without any indicator a player will enter it and find nothing. The ideal solution is to make entering the door worthwhile, but if that's not the way it is we should be given indicators which places have content.

Also,  these "people" you are referring to are few compared to how many players there are now. They're still more or less the same people, who basically don't need a map to be motivated to navigate through the game. As I said, smaller demography.

Isn't that part of the thrill of real exploration that you might find nothing or a hidden chest, cave full of exotic mobs, a rare spawn, a Dragon etc..?

Originally posted by Rimmersman

Originally posted by DeniZg

Zenimax initally announced that Cyrodill open world PVP will be the only type of PVP and that concerns me the most. Everything else, I can tolerate (except maybe 5 minute loading screens in my MMO).

Also, I really hope they put alternative leveling zones within each faction. Otherwise, it's SWTOR all over again.

About exploration, I don't mind following mini-map or compass for my main story quest, as long as some new hidden quest or dungeon that isn't on mini-map pops up in front of me unexpectedly along the way.

Cyrodill is the only place where you will be able to PVP, it's plenty big enough. On top of that you will have PVE in that area as well. What we do need and this is where i think ArenaNet went wrong is a Darkness Falls type dungeon, imagine that on top of the FvF(faction vs faction) we already have.

It doesn't seem like there will be a Darkness Falls. We need more info on RvR, it is the selling point of this game. GW2 screwed their RvR up, let's see if Matt remembers what made DAoC RvR good.

Originally posted by KhinRunite

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by KhinRunite

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Vunak23
The most noticable positive I saw in that video is nowhere in the gameplay did I see a (!) anywhere even when they were in the towns.... Oh god could it be true?

Nah, the PvE reeks of WoW, I'm sure they'll have it. The UI was turned off the whole video.

they've said there will be no !.  you got anything else?

No, instead you have a magical compass that points you to all the dungeons and NPCs.

Which they DID say. In THIS video.

the compass acts like the one in skyrim.  where you can see undicovered caves,  camps,  etc.  yes they did they did say that in the video.  it's to help promote exploration.  if your on a quest and pass by a cave,  you can decide wether to continue on the quest or go into the cave.  much like the single player ES games. 

You mean, one of the worst game mechanics of Skyrim?

You know how you promote exploration? You don't tell the player where all the points of interests are 5 minutes before they see it or are even near it.

The proximity to the points of interests should be reasonable before it pops out of the compass. I agree with your "5 minute" bit, but not the "near it" bit. You're setting yourself up for a very small demographic if your plan is to create an expansive world and not put any indicator as to which areas grant the player something in return for exploration.

You can put plenty of indicators. But they don't have to be magical hold you by the balls compasses that point out EVERYTHING so that you NEVER have to think or god forbid, EXPLORE FOR YOURSELF.

"Hey, theres a door in the side of that mountain there. Oh, but no compass pointing me that well. I guess its just nothing then!"

 

How the hell do you think people knew where stuff was before in game maps?

It's not much as to removing indicators, but putting a lot more content. What if there is indeed nothing behind the door? Without any indicator a player will enter it and find nothing. The ideal solution is to make entering the door worthwhile, but if that's not the way it is we should be given indicators which places have content.

Also,  these "people" you are referring to are few compared to how many players there are now. They're still more or less the same people, who basically don't need a map to be motivated to navigate through the game. As I said, smaller demography.

Good game design should NOT be sacrificed for "larger demographics". You can ALWAYS make things simpler for larger demographics. Knowing that, should we reduce the game down to pressing a button to win? Angry Birds?

No. If people cannot look at neat things they see without a magical arrow pointing them directly at it, maybe they shouldn't be playing complex games. It ruins the experience for everyone else.

And what MMO have you EVER played where you see what is clearly the entrance to a dungeon, and it has...nothing in it?

Originally posted by ShakyMo
I like the compass.

I think gw2 would have been better if it had borrowed the idea from tes instead of putting hearts and circles on the map.

Why, exactly? Are you incapable of finding things on your own?

Originally posted by achesoma
Since only one zone is for pvp, does that mean we will be restricted to certain areas based on faction?  Like if I'm Daggerfall Covenant, I won't be able to explore the Aldmeri zones.  Will I run into other factions at all other than Cyrodiil?

Man, you guys never played DAoC?

Yes, you will only be within your factions realms.

If you want to go to the other, you... wait...

In DAoC, you did this by going to a different server, so that you never had people just realm hopping in RvR...

But there's only ONE server for this game... how the fuck are they going to do RvR or let people see other zones? Are they just going to let people switch sides?? That's awful!

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by achesoma
Since only one zone is for pvp, does that mean we will be restricted to certain areas based on faction?  Like if I'm Daggerfall Covenant, I won't be able to explore the Aldmeri zones.  Will I run into other factions at all other than Cyrodiil?

Man, you guys never played DAoC?

Yes, you will only be within your factions realms.

If you want to go to the other, you... wait...

In DAoC, you did this by going to a different server, so that you never had people just realm hopping in RvR...

But there's only ONE server for this game... how the fuck are they going to do RvR or let people see other zones? Are they just going to let people switch sides?? That's awful!

That's what I thought but wasn't for sure.  Sucks that players have to roll each faction in order to see all the areas.  If players don't like alts then that's some huge chunks of areas they'll be missing. 

Originally posted by achesoma

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by achesoma
Since only one zone is for pvp, does that mean we will be restricted to certain areas based on faction?  Like if I'm Daggerfall Covenant, I won't be able to explore the Aldmeri zones.  Will I run into other factions at all other than Cyrodiil?

Man, you guys never played DAoC?

Yes, you will only be within your factions realms.

If you want to go to the other, you... wait...

In DAoC, you did this by going to a different server, so that you never had people just realm hopping in RvR...

But there's only ONE server for this game... how the fuck are they going to do RvR or let people see other zones? Are they just going to let people switch sides?? That's awful!

That's what I thought but wasn't for sure.  Sucks that players have to roll each faction in order to see all the areas.  If players don't like alts then that's some huge chunks of areas they'll be missing. 

Its not really a big problem in these types of games. I played DAoC for 6 years and never saw all of the ONE realm I played on. I only ever rolled Hibernia in my 7th year.

But I literally do not understand how RvR can function without breaking it into a bunch of useless shards.

This game gets worse and worse the more I think about it.

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by KhinRunite

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by KhinRunite

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by muffins89

Originally posted by DavisFlight

Originally posted by Vunak23
The most noticable positive I saw in that video is nowhere in the gameplay did I see a (!) anywhere even when they were in the towns.... Oh god could it be true?

Nah, the PvE reeks of WoW, I'm sure they'll have it. The UI was turned off the whole video.

they've said there will be no !.  you got anything else?

No, instead you have a magical compass that points you to all the dungeons and NPCs.

Which they DID say. In THIS video.

the compass acts like the one in skyrim.  where you can see undicovered caves,  camps,  etc.  yes they did they did say that in the video.  it's to help promote exploration.  if your on a quest and pass by a cave,  you can decide wether to continue on the quest or go into the cave.  much like the single player ES games. 

You mean, one of the worst game mechanics of Skyrim?

You know how you promote exploration? You don't tell the player where all the points of interests are 5 minutes before they see it or are even near it.

The proximity to the points of interests should be reasonable before it pops out of the compass. I agree with your "5 minute" bit, but not the "near it" bit. You're setting yourself up for a very small demographic if your plan is to create an expansive world and not put any indicator as to which areas grant the player something in return for exploration.

You can put plenty of indicators. But they don't have to be magical hold you by the balls compasses that point out EVERYTHING so that you NEVER have to think or god forbid, EXPLORE FOR YOURSELF.

"Hey, theres a door in the side of that mountain there. Oh, but no compass pointing me that well. I guess its just nothing then!"

 

How the hell do you think people knew where stuff was before in game maps?

It's not much as to removing indicators, but putting a lot more content. What if there is indeed nothing behind the door? Without any indicator a player will enter it and find nothing. The ideal solution is to make entering the door worthwhile, but if that's not the way it is we should be given indicators which places have content.

Also,  these "people" you are referring to are few compared to how many players there are now. They're still more or less the same people, who basically don't need a map to be motivated to navigate through the game. As I said, smaller demography.

Good game design should NOT be sacrificed for "larger demographics". You can ALWAYS make things simpler for larger demographics. Knowing that, should we reduce the game down to pressing a button to win? Angry Birds?

No. If people cannot look at neat things they see without a magical arrow pointing them directly at it, maybe they shouldn't be playing complex games. It ruins the experience for everyone else.

And what MMO have you EVER played where you see what is clearly the entrance to a dungeon, and it has...nothing in it?

What makes you bring up Good game design? Is putting up a compass indicator a Bad game design? Does that hinder anyone from exploring? Does its mere presence discourage exploration? It's there to aid people, so they don't get overwhelmed. If the game is not able to make the experience as realistic as possible to make actual exploration without a guide a refreshing experience everytime, they should put indicators. It also depends on how those POIs are reached. In Skyrim, despite knowing a POI is nearby, you still have to find out how to get there.

I really don't get why you're so riled up with this feature this early in the game. We haven't seen the zones in detail yet. That's why in part I agree with you, but totally removing compass indicator, is a 'no' in my opinion.

Is simple, not all players say  "is a wonderful game because i can play this game in 3th person like others hundreds more" bah!! this is BS!! TES is diferent because the 1st person view can give an awesome inmersion into the game, if only 3th person view is available then is like another "normal" games, not more than fails ones...

Gfx look good, but I do not think this game is going to be "challenging" enough for me. Sorry. Darkfall meets WoW?

Looks like fun. Lets see how it plays.  What is disquieting, is they plan on mixing PvE and PvP yet again... Unless they completely separate PvP skills from PvE skills, we will see the endless cycle of nerfs to various classes, that always chews up vast amounts of Dev time/talent, not to mention annoying the hell out of the PvE player base.

PvP players will never be happy. With all too many, the simple fact that one was killed by class A, means that class A is "OP" ^^

NERF CLASS A!!! CLASS A IS OP!!!  Is the howl that goes up, and the Dev's always seem to pander to such types.  Just once, I'd LOVE to see them simply macro "Working As Intended", and use their mighty ban hammer on the worst offenders in the forums. 

Hell, I'd pay $50 a month for an enjoyable game like that. ^^

Originally posted by koboldfodder

Sorry, but when I watch that it just does not feel like an Elder Scrolls game.  It looks like the whole point of the game is to play the level game to 50 then do the usual things people do at level 50.

The things I enjoy about the Elder Scrolls were not to be found anywhere in that video.  Housing?  Nope.  Crafting?  Nothing.  Walking around picking flowers for my Alchemist, nope?   Riding a horse?  Nope.  Being able to go anywhere at anytime and not be restricted?  Big time no.

This game could be a great sandbox game where instead of combat as the focus, existing in the game world and building is the focus like it was in early SWG.

Just seems like abother themepark MMO with forced restrictions and a goal of getting to level 50 to either PVP or Run Instances/Dungeons.

Maybe one of these days the developers of MMOs will realize it's player interaction that makes a great game and not game mechanics.

 

 

2nd that!